The Chaotic, Crazed story of Use Your Illusion -- Classic Rock Magazine

[RONIN]

Quote

“We make choices every day. With Use Your Illusion, Slash made a choice and I totally understood it, and to this day I don’t agree with it. One night, he and I were sitting alone in his house up in Laurel Canyon and he was really bemoaning what he thought Axl was doing to the band, and he was doing it in the context of the material he was writing. He felt it wasn’t Guns N’ Roses, he felt that he was being compromised by having to apply himself to it. He felt that one song of that kind of epic style might be appropriate, but so many? I looked at him and said: ‘You’ve got to express this’. And Slash looked at me and he said: ‘Listen, my father [an artist who designed album sleeves] has got a cupboard full of gold records, and he hasn’t got a pot to piss in.’ And that’s where he folded. From then on, Axl was in charge.”

Quote

Slash’s response is measured, guarded: “Well…” he says slowly, “I think that Axl’s always been difficult, but we managed. Because of the five individuals, and Alan, and Tom Zutaut, we managed to make it work. So you lose Steven, and then the Alan thing… I backed Alan all the way up to a certain point and then he did actually do something that set me off and I said: ‘I can’t fight for you any more’. But that was a volatile situation that was going to explode at some point. Alan wasn’t going to take Axl’s shit and Axl could not stand that, so it was a battle. I think in hindsight, although it wouldn’t have been any fun, but all we could have done differently was just to refuse Axl everything that he ever wanted. I don’t think it would have been very productive, but all things considered, what we ended up doing was going along with a lot of stuff just in order to be able to continue on, which built a monster. All I can see happening is that nothing would have happened, because it would have been at a standstill. I think we probably would have broken up a lot sooner. But I can’t support hiring Doug Goldstein as a manager. I knew that he was a creep from day one.”

Quote

“Looking back,” says Slash. “I think that losing Steven was one of the major components in the disintegration of the original band, but I think that was more Axl anyway. Steven was just the tip of the iceberg.”

 

http://teamrock.com/feature/2016-09-17/the-chaotic-crazed-story-of-guns-n-roses-use-your-illusion

Edited September 19, 2016 by RONIN

[Chris 55]

Interesting but didn't West Arkeen die in 1996?

[IncitingChaos]

In Axl's defense I'd say the power hungry stuff started when the drug and alcohol situation picked up. So you can say it was going to happen anyways even if they were sober, or you could say Axl felt the need to be in charge considering the state of mind Slash and Duff were in 98% of the time...

Steven leaving obviously freed Axl up a bit since Steven was the one who might get in Axl's face, but again in Axl's defense maybe he was worried that after seeing how Adler couldn't even play anymore that Slash and Duff were headed down the same road and in some weird instinctive manner he tried to tighten the ship by basically saying it's my way or the highway till you guys get it together. 

But the stuff I nor anyone can defend is Axl being late, isolating himself from the band, and in trusting "his guys" to manage the band. There were better ways to handle it and he chose to push the guys he actually needs further away. 

They each had issues that broke the band up, they each could have done more, Axl's issues are more pronounced bc we expect our rock stars to do drugs and drink, so Axl being the egotistical monster that he became is the more fascinating story to tell. 

I concede I know very little about Axl's perspective on this time period, just speculating on what has been said and trying to put myself in his situation. I'd love if we one day get Axl's autobiography and he lets us know what he saw, why he did what he did, and how he thought it might turn out differently. 

[NOVEMBER COMA]

I think all members of the band at some point have said that Steven was the beginning, well it was, he was the first to go. I don't blame them, 30 takes on Civil War? Reading Adler's bio he said he could pull it off & that at Farm Aid he was in time but I think these are just 2 examples of his addiction. Slash was on speedballs but seemed to still be able to play. Everyone's different. After Adler left Izzy felt amiss but it was definitely the growth of popularity that got him. Even today he still won't play stadiums. He is a club band guy & he likes it that way. He even drove towing his motorcycles on the UYI legs whilst the rest of the band flew. A lone wolf I think. 

Once Adler & Izzy left (all within 18 Months) Gun's n roses changed forever but what if have today is still nothing short of awesome. I mean what band sells tickets to the MCG these days? Last was Michael Jackson. 

[RONIN]

2 hours ago, Chris 55 said:

Interesting but didn't West Arkeen die in 1996?

There is another minor discrepancy in that (otherwise great) article -- the story about how Duff re-connected with Axl at his hotel room. The original story goes that Duff was informed that Axl was next door by the front desk and then knocked on Axl's door. In this version, Duff had cranked up the music in his room and an irritated Axl was knocking on his door.

[Italian girl]

I don't believe this second version of the story...

[DieselDaisy]

The thing I don't understand is, why was he not showing up for his own sessions? They have million dollar studio (The Complex)  booked around the clock; everybody would turn up - sans the ginger; this was already on 'Axl terms' as we are into the Tobias/name-take over period, so he already had everything he wanted to satisfy his power hungry mind; then everybody would turn up at two-in-the-morning except Axl who wouldn't show up at all and the sessions would just come to nothing!! They were reportedly supposed to working on his material!

[RooSaa]

I backed Alan all the way up to a certain point and then he did actually do something that set me off and I said: ‘I can’t fight for you any more’.

Anybody know what Slash is reffering to? He and Alan seemed to have been very close ...

Edited September 19, 2016 by RooSaa

[DieselDaisy]

I have some vague memory of Alan trying to roger somebody's bird.

[bikka]

27 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

The thing I don't understand is, why was he not showing up for his own sessions? They have million dollar studio (The Complex)  booked around the clock; everybody would turn up - sans the ginger; this was already on 'Axl terms' as we are into the Tobias/name-take over period, so he already had everything he wanted to satisfy his power hungry mind; then everybody would turn up at two-in-the-morning except Axl who wouldn't show up at all and the sessions would just come to nothing!! They were reportedly supposed to working on his material!

I think it's a way to remain in control. He couldn't really stop the wheel spinning - those records had to be released, those were different times music bussiness wise and he couldn't pull off anything like when they recorded CD. So instead he behaved like a kid who doesn't want to do what he's told - lock himself up in a bedroom and make everyone's life a tad harder. At least this way he has impact on other people (but of course, that also means spending your life locked up...). The same thing, imo, was with the late shows - it's a deseprate way to keep in control, even if only by making other people wait. I think he was at the same time very insecure and a perfectionist, very bad mix...

Edited September 19, 2016 by bikka

[RONIN]

12 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

I have some vague memory of Alan trying to roger somebody's bird.

Yeah -- I think he hit on someone close to Slash in an inappropriate way.

[DieselDaisy]

I just find him a petulant child

[scottish nutter]

4 hours ago, RONIN said:

There is another minor discrepancy in that (otherwise great) article -- the story about how Duff re-connected with Axl at his hotel room. The original story goes that Duff was informed that Axl was next door by the front desk and then knocked on Axl's door. In this version, Duff had cranked up the music in his room and an irritated Axl was knocking on his door.

no idea what version is the truth but at one of the shows a few years ago axl told the crowd the 2nd version

[GNRfan2008]

5 hours ago, RONIN said:

There is another minor discrepancy in that (otherwise great) article -- the story about how Duff re-connected with Axl at his hotel room. The original story goes that Duff was informed that Axl was next door by the front desk and then knocked on Axl's door. In this version, Duff had cranked up the music in his room and an irritated Axl was knocking on his door.

2nd version is what Axl said. Who knows which is true.

[StrangerInThisTown]

20 minutes ago, GNRfan2008 said:

2nd version is what Axl said. Who knows which is true.

Is there a video of that ? How do we know he said it that way if not ?

[GNRfan2008]

1 minute ago, StrangerInThisTown said:

Is there a video of that ? How do we know he said it that way if not ?

There is video of it. Go to 5:56 of this one: 

 

[Blackstar]

6 hours ago, RONIN said:

There is another minor discrepancy in that (otherwise great) article -- the story about how Duff re-connected with Axl at his hotel room. The original story goes that Duff was informed that Axl was next door by the front desk and then knocked on Axl's door. In this version, Duff had cranked up the music in his room and an irritated Axl was knocking on his door.

The article paraphrases Axl's side of the story. Duff's and Axl's versions don't collide, they are just each one's side of the story. Duff said he was informed by the receptionist that Axl was staying in the room next to his but he didn't do anything because he had a busy schedule. Then he got a call from Axl's manager and after he finished with his business meetings he knocked on Axl's door (someone from Axl's entourage tried to impede from getting in saying that Axl was taking a shower ). Axl said he heard noise from the hallway and loud music from the next room and found out that the "annoying neighbor" was Duff. Then apparently he got his manager to call him.

Edited September 19, 2016 by Blackstar

[sanity_lost]

5 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

The thing I don't understand is, why wa n he not showing up for his own sessions? They have million dollar studio (The Complex)  booked around the clock; everybody would turn up - sans the ginger; this was already on 'Axl terms' as we are into the Tobias/name-take over period, so he already had everything he wanted to satisfy his power hungry mind; then everybody would turn up at two-in-the-morning except Axl who wouldn't show up at all and the sessions would just come to nothing!! They were reportedly supposed to working on his material!

I think you may be looking at this wrong. Axl probably wasn't sitting in his chair stroking his fluffy white cat plotting how to make his bandmates miserable. He likely wasn't consciously being power hungry/greedy/egotistical doing things just because. He was very likely mentally-ill. Doesn't make things any better or easier for the people around him, but doesn't make things any fun for him either.

[sanity_lost]

Just now, sanity_lost said:

I think rareyou may be looking at this wrong. Axl probably wasn't sitting in his chair stroking his fluffy white cat plotting how to make his bandmates miserable. He likely wasn't consciously being power hungry/greedy/egotistical doing things just because. He was very likely mentally-ill. Doesn't make things any better or easier for the people around him, but doesn't make things any fun for him either.

Just saw others said pretty much the same thing but I can't edit  with my phone.

[IncitingChaos]

Axl also said in the TMS interview that he wasn't sure how "coincidental" Duff's room getting out next to his was...he seemed to think there was a conspiracy. 

But here's to that receptionist that was enough of a gnr fan to connect the two names and get them close again. 

[Kara]

@IncitingChaos I've always had the same thought in my head about Axl maybe feeling like he HAD to kind of "control" the situation because everyone else around him in the band was so messed up. Like, wasn't Axl the only one at that point who wasn't doing drugs anymore? At least not any hard drugs. I'm not saying he always went about things the right way by any means, but I'm thinking he may have adopted that mindset somewhere along the line as he must've felt there was no other way..

[DieselDaisy]

1 hour ago, sanity_lost said:

I think you may be looking at this wrong. Axl probably wasn't sitting in his chair stroking his fluffy white cat plotting how to make his bandmates miserable. He likely wasn't consciously being power hungry/greedy/egotistical doing things just because. He was very likely mentally-ill. Doesn't make things any better or easier for the people around him, but doesn't make things any fun for him either.

I still prefer my conclusion that he is a collosal wanker.

[sanity_lost]

3 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

I still prefer my conclusion that he is a collosal wanker.

Whatever makes you happy 

[IncitingChaos]

4 hours ago, Kara said:

@IncitingChaos I've always had the same thought in my head about Axl maybe feeling like he HAD to kind of "control" the situation because everyone else around him in the band was so messed up. Like, wasn't Axl the only one at that point who wasn't doing drugs anymore? At least not any hard drugs. I'm not saying he always went about things the right way by any means, but I'm thinking he may have adopted that mindset somewhere along the line as he must've felt there was no other way..

Axl IMO always had the potential to take charge, and be more of a dictator than a band mate. 

However, there were always concerns with the other guys stories. Axl talked openly in the famous last words interview about Slash not wanting to do these songs, and Izzy won't do these songs and Axl said he told them I'm not doing either of your songs unless you do mine and each others. 

With the Illusion albums Axl was right, there was only one way to release those and it was just to throw everything on there. It kept the band together long enough to finish the album and business wise ended up capitalizing on their success. 

I think Axl played mediator a lot more than is told, and it didn't turn into Axl versus the band until he replaced them after they left. They all were likely difficult at times, and they all assumed they were right all the time, so in the end their individual personalities came out the brightest. Axl was dominating, Slash was passive, Duff was up for whatever, Izzy was too cool for this so one guy is telling everyone how it is, one guy is mumbling what he wants in a corner pouting, one is passed out on his amp, and one just is learning how F'd up things are sober 

[Kara]

14 minutes ago, IncitingChaos said:

Axl IMO always had the potential to take charge, and be more of a dictator than a band mate. 

However, there were always concerns with the other guys stories. Axl talked openly in the famous last words interview about Slash not wanting to do these songs, and Izzy won't do these songs and Axl said he told them I'm not doing either of your songs unless you do mine and each others. 

With the Illusion albums Axl was right, there was only one way to release those and it was just to throw everything on there. It kept the band together long enough to finish the album and business wise ended up capitalizing on their success. 

I think Axl played mediator a lot more than is told, and it didn't turn into Axl versus the band until he replaced them after they left. They all were likely difficult at times, and they all assumed they were right all the time, so in the end their individual personalities came out the brightest. Axl was dominating, Slash was passive, Duff was up for whatever, Izzy was too cool for this so one guy is telling everyone how it is, one guy is mumbling what he wants in a corner pouting, one is passed out on his amp, and one just is learning how F'd up things are sober 

Yeah there were just too many conflicting personalities and attitudes and every one of them had a different way of handling things. Not one of them was ever on the same page at the same time so it wasn't any ONE persons fault. Yet somehow, all the blame always seems to fall on Axl and I think that's really unfair considering that state of mind each band member was in during and throughout the UYI ear and prior to that.