AxlRoseCDII Posted September 24, 2016 Share Posted September 24, 2016 8 minutes ago, Slash787 said: Izzy's solo complemented Slash. Fortus was amazing in Axl's solo band, I liked his tone compared to other guitarists, but when it comes to GNR, I hope you understand why 99% of the fans want Izzy. I like some songs from CD, but some fans, Im not saying you, but some of them are just delusional that how Axl's solo project and their members were so awesome and how basically Axl is God, whoever leaves is the devil and whoever is still working with Axl is just amazing. But well we should see the reality. I respect and love Izzy for what he's added to GN'R but the 90's are over. I personally believe Fortus deserves to be here than Izzy. I can see why people do want Izzy here but I personally don't because of how unreliable he is and to be honest, to me it seems he'd be in it for the wrong reason. I believe Fortus has earned his keep and while many people may disagree with me, it is my opinion and I do choose to argue for Fortus' position. 2 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said: Sorry man, just my opinion 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ludurigan Posted September 24, 2016 Share Posted September 24, 2016 4 hours ago, JAxlMorrison said: hundreds of thousands, millions even, of fans who have been going to see Guns N Roses in all its incarnations from 1991 on, would be inclined to disagree with a lot of what you said. They go, they enjoy themselves, and most don't overthink it, and there's nothing more fun than a GNR show, regardless of who is behind the drum kit, or playing rhythm. its pretty obvious that millions of people have been enjoying all the versions of Guns n Roses since Izzy left unfortunately, that doesnt make the music any better 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Holographic Universe Posted September 24, 2016 Share Posted September 24, 2016 Izzy doesn't want to be there. That's his descion. I don't understand why anybody here has an issue with who takes his place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good, Fuck'n, Night. Posted September 24, 2016 Share Posted September 24, 2016 7 hours ago, AxlRoseCDII said: It is a fact, Izzy is one of the key founding members of the band who wrote some of the most classic songs. Fortus is not a session musician, he is a legitimate band member. I don't want to go into this, but however, Fortus is listed in Chinese Democracy as a band member, not a session artist. In the programs for the tours, he is listed as a band member, not a touring member. He has written many (unused) songs for Guns n' Roses in his stay. He has been here for 15 years, and I know this may irritate you and I don't blame you for seeing him a session musician, but technically he is a legitimate band member of this version of Guns n' Roses. Like it or not. I never said he was more important than Izzy. Izzy will always be the key element of what made Guns n' Roses what it is. But times change and ships sail, and people move on. Again, we don't know anything about what happened with the Izzy situation. I am not favoring either side (Axl/Duff/Slash vs. Izzy) because we don't know exactly what deal went down. What Izzy tweets does not cement anything as proof. For all we know, he could've been offered 50,000 for a few guest appearances and wanted more money. Like it or not, Izzy quit Guns n' Roses back in 1991, giving up his partnership rights. So what, are you arguing Izzy should've just been back in the band like nothing ever happened? Keep in mind Slash and Duff were still under a contract of being under this partnership. Fortus has been in the band since 2002, and we know that Axl is a very loyal man to people who stay in his life. It's not fair to kick Fortus out for Izzy. And yes, I am telling you that "the longterm session musician" is more deserving to be here than the original band member who wrote the music. He's reliable, a great guitarist, has stayed by Axl's side through thick and thin (unlike Izzy who walked out on his "best friend" in the early 90's), had some good (admittedly few) parts on Chinese Democracy (a legitimate GN'R album like it or not) and will play a crucial role on new music through his chemistry with Slash and writing skills. Unless something changes, for now, FOR THIS TOUR: Fortus > Izzy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Darkenchantress Posted September 25, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted September 25, 2016 1 hour ago, The Holographic Universe said: Izzy doesn't want to be there. That's his descion. I don't understand why anybody here has an issue with who takes his place. It's pretty obvious that Izzy DID want to be there. Only reason why he is not is because they didn't reach an agreement that pleased both parts. Not as easy as "his decision". And as I said a lot of times before, I really like Fortus, I think he does a good job on the guitar but I'd kick him out in a second if Izzy were back. Sorry Richard, nothing personal 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Good, Fuck'n, Night. Posted September 25, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted September 25, 2016 (edited) 6 hours ago, AxlRoseCDII said: Of course it doesn't deserve more kudos. Ignoring opinions, Appetite For Destruction and the UYI are the Guns n' Roses albums in legacy. I personally love Chinese Democracy just as much as those but I will admit, it isn't what made GN'R what it is. But that's the thing man. It's time to move on from the 90's. That era is dead. It's over. Fortus fits in for this generation of GN'R over Izzy. 90's it's a different story, but for now Fortus's value is very important to this tour and to the new music of Guns n' Roses we will see in 2017-2018. Therefore, I believe Fortus deserves to be here over Izzy. I normally don't respond to posts like this with words, a gif is all it deserves, but I'm going to make an exception this time. You do realise that with out the 80's / 90's era of GnR there is NO Gnr? I'm not sure you do? Pre 2016 generation existed 100% on the back of what GnR was, it added nothing, it has only served to damage what was once great. Axl's solo band failed in every possible way, trading purely on what you describe as the "dead era" This tour is trading on the only era of GnR 99% of people care about, the 80's & 90's. Fortus has no value in any way beyond a session musician to what is happening now. Don't get me wrong, he is doing an OK job & has toned down the show boating, but he is not GnR, in any way shape or form, regardless of what is written on CD. Edited September 25, 2016 by Good, Fuck'n, Night. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graeme Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 20 hours ago, Oldest Goat said: Say what you will about Izzy but the fact is he seems like a really nice, grounded guy and you have to respect all he's done for GNR and the fact he's been sober for so fucking long. In comparison when I look at Axl, Slash and Duff I can't help thinking how shallow and greedy they seem. Return this man to his rightful place! Where's Izzy? Who's Fortus? I think you can respect Izzy without the need to show disrespect to Richard. It's one of the things I really don't like about the GN'R community, some people believe that showing your support for one line-up of the band means that you have to attack the others. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RONIN Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 (edited) 53 minutes ago, Graeme said: I think you can respect Izzy without the need to show disrespect to Richard. It's one of the things I really don't like about the GN'R community, some people believe that showing your support for one line-up of the band means that you have to attack the others. Fair point. I don't care for Fortus because I'm not a fan of his style. With that said, I'm harsh with my assessment of him because he has no artistic integrity. For 15 yrs he stuck with a band that released almost no music and he has nearly nothing to show for it (aside from that 4 second better riff). He's a whore like dizzy, Pittman and Tommy Stinson. Compare him to guys like Buckethead, Freese, Thal, Finck, etc who all walked because they were actual artists. They couldn't be bought by Axl's money. That's why Fortus is judged harsher. He is literally a paid touring member of the band. Even Gilby has more contributions to GnR in his 3 yr stint than Fortus. That's just the facts Jack. Fortus is impeding Izzy rejoining the band. We know Izzy wants back in. If even a guy like Ashba had the decency to step aside, why can't Fortus? Because the money is too damn good and he has zero career options outside of GnR. Edited September 25, 2016 by RONIN 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willl Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 (edited) I posted the interview on Youtube as I couldn't believe it wasn't there already, and Tunecore have now removed it from their website too (probably due to Jeff Price being given his marching orders). Also it's the last audio interview we have from Izzy, 10 years sure goes by quickly. A lot of interesting insight in the interview in my opinion. eg. Izzy mentioning that the GNR guys used to live in what he called "The Box"..... "Box" was released in late 2006, and was co-written with Timo Kaltia (co-writer of 'Right Next Door To Hell'). It was written whilst Izzy was on tour with Guns in Summer 2006, and this song is always brought up on the forums because of the speculation that it is "Down By The Ocean" (see Axl chats in 2008). Even if its not the same song that Axl confirmed existed in his 2008 chats, it's at least an autobiographical Izzy tune about the GNR days which still makes it a cool tune Bizarrely, the first time Izzy mentioned this song was in an interview 5 years prior to him apparently writing and releasing it: Quote Popular Magazine wrote: Izzy: In '95, Duff and me recorded songs for the band [GN'R]. We made a tape that went nowhere. Then, a couple of months ago I have a message on my answering machine: 'Yo! It's Axl, I need a copy of the songs that you did.' There was one called 'Down by the Ocean' or 'Down by the Sea', they may have used it. Izzy can't remember the song title, yet both of those lines appear in "Box" Edited September 25, 2016 by downliner 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverburst80 Posted September 25, 2016 Author Share Posted September 25, 2016 (edited) 2 hours ago, downliner said: I posted the interview on Youtube as I couldn't believe it wasn't there already, and Tunecore have now removed it from their website too (probably due to Jeff Price being given his marching orders). Also it's the last audio interview we have from Izzy, 10 years sure goes by quickly. A lot of interesting insight in the interview in my opinion. eg. Izzy mentioning that the GNR guys used to live in what he called "The Box"..... "Box" was released in late 2006, and was co-written with Timo Kaltia (co-writer of 'Right Next Door To Hell'). It was written whilst Izzy was on tour with Guns in Summer 2006, and this song is always brought up on the forums because of the speculation that it is "Down By The Ocean" (see Axl chats in 2008). Even if its not the same song that Axl confirmed existed in his 2008 chats, it's at least an autobiographical Izzy tune about the GNR days which still makes it a cool tune Bizarrely, the first time Izzy mentioned this song was in an interview 5 years prior to him apparently writing and releasing it: Izzy can't remember the song title, yet both of those lines appear in "Box" That song has a very similar vocal melody to Sweet Home Alabama. Edited September 25, 2016 by Silverburst80 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modano09 Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 15 hours ago, RONIN said: Fair point. I don't care for Fortus because I'm not a fan of his style. With that said, I'm harsh with my assessment of him because he has no artistic integrity. For 15 yrs he stuck with a band that released almost no music and he has nearly nothing to show for it (aside from that 4 second better riff). He's a whore like dizzy, Pittman and Tommy Stinson. Compare him to guys like Buckethead, Freese, Thal, Finck, etc who all walked because they were actual artists. They couldn't be bought by Axl's money. That's why Fortus is judged harsher. He is literally a paid touring member of the band. Even Gilby has more contributions to GnR in his 3 yr stint than Fortus. That's just the facts Jack. Fortus is impeding Izzy rejoining the band. We know Izzy wants back in. If even a guy like Ashba had the decency to step aside, why can't Fortus? Because the money is too damn good and he has zero career options outside of GnR. It's appalling that Fortus doesn't make career decisions based on what you want! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Słash Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 9 minutes ago, Modano09 said: It's appalling that Fortus doesn't make career decisions based on what you want! Well @RONIN is actually right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modano09 Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 Just now, Slash787 said: Well @RONIN is actually right. About what? That Fortus should take it upon himself to quit a job plenty of musicians would kill for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Słash Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 2 minutes ago, Modano09 said: About what? That Fortus should take it upon himself to quit a job plenty of musicians would kill for? That Robin, Bucket, Ron, Josh Freese wanted to move forward and go in a proper musical direction, they are the real artists who don't care about the extra money, music satisfies them. They had enough of Axl's shit unlike Fortus who will just do anything what Axl's says. At least Ashba had the integrity to talk nice things about Slash and even meet and take a pic with Slash unlike Fortus who din't have the balls and said he won't share the same stage as Slash. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modano09 Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 2 minutes ago, Slash787 said: That Robin, Bucket, Ron, Josh Freese wanted to move forward and go in a proper musical direction, they are the real artists who don't care about the extra money, music satisfies them. They had enough of Axl's shit unlike Fortus who will just do anything what Axl's says. At least Ashba had the integrity to talk nice things about Slash and even meet and take a pic with Slash unlike Fortus who din't have the balls and said he won't share the same stage as Slash. So Fortus lacks integrity because he's supposedly all about the money, and Izzy's just swell even though he's not involved because he wanted more money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Modano09 Posted September 25, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted September 25, 2016 Let's say I build a house. And years down the road, I decide I don't want to live there anymore. I just want to unload it, so I sell it for $500,000 cash. 20 years later, the people I sold the house to are selling it. They've put some work into it over the years, the neighborhood has been built up, and now it's valued at $3 million. Can I walk up to the new owners and say "well I built it, we should split that"? 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post DieselDaisy Posted September 25, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted September 25, 2016 11 minutes ago, Modano09 said: Let's say I build a house. And years down the road, I decide I don't want to live there anymore. I just want to unload it, so I sell it for $500,000 cash. 20 years later, the people I sold the house to are selling it. They've put some work into it over the years, the neighborhood has been built up, and now it's valued at $3 million. Can I walk up to the new owners and say "well I built it, we should split that"? What a plonker. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post bigpoop Posted September 25, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted September 25, 2016 31 minutes ago, Modano09 said: Let's say I build a house. And years down the road, I decide I don't want to live there anymore. I just want to unload it, so I sell it for $500,000 cash. 20 years later, the people I sold the house to are selling it. They've put some work into it over the years, the neighborhood has been built up, and now it's valued at $3 million. Can I walk up to the new owners and say "well I built it, we should split that"? This analogy stinks. Nobody has put in any work over the years that amounts to a damn thing. In fact, if every member of GNR had sat on the beach since 1991 this 'reunion' would still be huge. Because every bit of the success they're having is based on the songs that are on Appetite and UYI. That's it. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modano09 Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 39 minutes ago, bigpoop said: This analogy stinks. Nobody has put in any work over the years that amounts to a damn thing. In fact, if every member of GNR had sat on the beach since 1991 this 'reunion' would still be huge. Because every bit of the success they're having is based on the songs that are on Appetite and UYI. That's it. It doesn't matter if what they did with the GNR name "amounts to a damn", in your opinion. It was theirs, they maintained some degree of interest and control over it. Izzy didn't. He sold his stake in GNR. At the very least, if he wants his 25% stake back, he should have to return what he was paid out when he left the band. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good, Fuck'n, Night. Posted September 26, 2016 Share Posted September 26, 2016 2 hours ago, Modano09 said: Let's say I build a house. And years down the road, I decide I don't want to live there anymore. I just want to unload it, so I sell it for $500,000 cash. 20 years later, the people I sold the house to are selling it. They've put some work into it over the years, the neighborhood has been built up, and now it's valued at $3 million. Can I walk up to the new owners and say "well I built it, we should split that"? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ludurigan Posted September 26, 2016 Share Posted September 26, 2016 20 hours ago, downliner said: I posted the interview on Youtube as I couldn't believe it wasn't there already, and Tunecore have now removed it from their website too (probably due to Jeff Price being given his marching orders). Also it's the last audio interview we have from Izzy, 10 years sure goes by quickly. A lot of interesting insight in the interview in my opinion. eg. Izzy mentioning that the GNR guys used to live in what he called "The Box"..... "Box" was released in late 2006, and was co-written with Timo Kaltia (co-writer of 'Right Next Door To Hell'). It was written whilst Izzy was on tour with Guns in Summer 2006, and this song is always brought up on the forums because of the speculation that it is "Down By The Ocean" (see Axl chats in 2008). Even if its not the same song that Axl confirmed existed in his 2008 chats, it's at least an autobiographical Izzy tune about the GNR days which still makes it a cool tune Bizarrely, the first time Izzy mentioned this song was in an interview 5 years prior to him apparently writing and releasing it: Izzy can't remember the song title, yet both of those lines appear in "Box" thanks about all the info! I had no idea about any of that! The coolest thing about all of this is this Izzy quote about songs they wrote in 1995 Popular Magazine wrote: Izzy: In '95, Duff and me recorded songs for the band [GN'R]. We made a tape that went nowhere. Then, a couple of months ago I have a message on my answering machine: 'Yo! It's Axl, I need a copy of the songs that you did.' There was one called 'Down by the Ocean' or 'Down by the Sea', they may have used it. This adds to what i have been saying for years There is SO MUCH stuff that these guys (Axl, Izzy, Slash, Duff) wrote and recorded over the years that we have NO IDEA of People that love Axl solo-era keep talking about Chinese Democracy part 2 or whatever but who cares about that? i wanna know where is the fucking IZZY & DUFF 1995 TAPE! Now THAT TAPE must be REALLY GREAT. Has Axl ever put his hands on it? Has Axl ever tried to write lyrics or vocal melodies for these songs? Now THAT is something I wanna hear. Even if it is unfinished or unpolished. Now that is right there yet another piece of the GNR HOLY GRAIL 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slosh13 Posted September 26, 2016 Share Posted September 26, 2016 On 9/24/2016 at 6:45 AM, Oldest Goat said: Say what you will about Izzy but the fact is he seems like a really nice, grounded guy and you have to respect all he's done for GNR and the fact he's been sober for so fucking long. In comparison when I look at Axl, Slash and Duff I can't help thinking how shallow and greedy they seem. Return this man to his rightful place! Where's Izzy? Who's Fortus? So let's crap on the other guys because you have a feeling that Izzy is the grounded guy... LOL. Maybe Izzy doesn't want to return full time? We don't know the deal. People who have met Axl and the others have always reported how cool they are with the fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtTavana Posted September 27, 2016 Share Posted September 27, 2016 What was the last interview he did? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swedish Posted September 27, 2016 Share Posted September 27, 2016 5 hours ago, Pink Rose said: There won't be any new GNR music without Izzy. I've never understood this argument. Sure, Izzy wrote A LOT of GN'R songs, many of which are classics today but the other members also wrote songs that are really, really great and many of which are live staples today. Slash, Axl and Duff have both in their solo career and in GN'R showed that they are more than capable of writing great songs! If GN'R would have released an album with Welcome To The Jungle, Breakdown, Yesterdays, Civil War, November Rain, Estranged, Dead Horse, The Garden, Don't Damn Me, Coma and Rocket Queen it would have been a great album and none of those tracks are written by Izzy. And let's not forget the fact that the Slash, Axl and Duff contributed songwriting wise to a lot of songs along with Izzy, I'm pretty sure songs like You Could Be Mine, Nightrain and Sweet Child O' Mine wouldn't have been the great songs they are if Izzy was the sole songwriter on them. I feel like Izzy to the casual GN'R fan is really underrated but over here on the forums and among a lot of massive GN'R fans he's very overrated. I agree that Izzy was important to the writing process in GN'R and wrote a ton of amazing songs but the statement that the band couldn't release music without him is just ignorant. I'm sure a new GN'R album would get released, be good and be successful without Izzy on board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Darkenchantress Posted September 27, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted September 27, 2016 I don't know, there are just facts. With Izzy: (Live Like a suicide), Appetite for destruction, Lies, UYIs. Without Izzy: Cover album. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts