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Chinese Democracy crowned the most over-produced album of all time.


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1 hour ago, dalsh327 said:

 Even if you played ChiDem on a high end stereo system, are those dynamics all there? 

Yep. Good headphones, or a high end car audio system makes a huge difference as well. It actually makes some of the songs way more interesting. Not necessarily better or worse, just different. You can hear much more of the so called layers, especially in the guitars and vocals. Makes me wish a more stripped down, rock version was released with just Bucket and Finck on lead and one rhythm guitar per track. Or, obviously, if Izzy and Slash were involved and made them into real GnR songs.

Songs like IRS and Chinese Democracy have so much potential. A more cohesive band recording those songs, along with some less cheesy wording in the chorus for IRS, could have been on what we would have all accepted as the next GnR album. The Antiquiet version of the title track is great. There is no way it could have lived up to all those years of hype, but it is a great song nevertheless. Throw in The Blues and Catcher, along with some Izzy, Slash and Duff songs, and they could have avoided this 20 year soap opera. 

If only Axl would have released a solo album like the rest of the member did, he could have gotten that Industrial itch out of his system...

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2 hours ago, DTV88 said:

Yep. Good headphones, or a high end car audio system makes a huge difference as well. It actually makes some of the songs way more interesting. Not necessarily better or worse, just different. You can hear much more of the so called layers, especially in the guitars and vocals. Makes me wish a more stripped down, rock version was released with just Bucket and Finck on lead and one rhythm guitar per track. Or, obviously, if Izzy and Slash were involved and made them into real GnR songs.

Songs like IRS and Chinese Democracy have so much potential. A more cohesive band recording those songs, along with some less cheesy wording in the chorus for IRS, could have been on what we would have all accepted as the next GnR album. The Antiquiet version of the title track is great. There is no way it could have lived up to all those years of hype, but it is a great song nevertheless. Throw in The Blues and Catcher, along with some Izzy, Slash and Duff songs, and they could have avoided this 20 year soap opera. 

If only Axl would have released a solo album like the rest of the member did, he could have gotten that Industrial itch out of his system...

And released it in 1999. 

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On 9/24/2016 at 4:47 PM, Towelie said:

1. Guns N' Roses - Chinese Democracy (2008)

At the throne of UG this week, it's the GN'R gang and "Chinese Democracy." Dewitt pointed out: "It's a great album, but it's probably the best (or worst?) example of what a negative effect overproduction can have on the final product. It would be a better album if it was a little more reserved."

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/features/top_20_most_overproduced_albums_ever.html

Been saying this for years. The 1998-2002 demo's and live versions completely blow the album versions out of the water. What could have been.... 

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17 hours ago, DTV88 said:

If only Axl would have released a solo album like the rest of the member did, he could have gotten that Industrial itch out of his system...

It wouldn't have been everybody's cup of tea, but I would have loved an album of psycho "industrial" songs like OMG, Silkworms, Rhiad, Shacklers...take the Bucket era lineup to full potential.

Oh well.

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I've never understood the argument that the demo's are better. Maybe I'm misunderstanding? People keep saying the demo's sound more raw sounding, but isn't that the case with every demo recorded ever when compare to their finished, polished album counterparts? I understand they have less layers but they're the exact same songs lol. 

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On 25 September 2016 at 11:23 AM, Slash787 said:

Brain had to re record the same parts by Josh Freese 

"What surprised me is that they supposedly had Brain re-do my drums note for note." (Josh Freese, Podocast, 04/13) 

"Roy [Thomas Baker] was the producer at that time and he's like, 'Well, basically what you are gonna have to do is play exactly what Josh played. Exactly note for note." (Brain, EQTV, 10/08)

 

RTB was a big, big problem in the whole Chinese Democracy process. 

Sean Beavan and Bob Ezrin at least tried to help to achieve a decent 21st century rock album. I don't know what they were doing digging up a dinosaur like RTB. It didn't go well for the Smashing Pumpkins either.

On 25 September 2016 at 10:36 AM, Slash787 said:

The demo's are so much better

 

This sounds fantastic. Great drum sound in particular.

Edited by Malcolm Malcolm
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2 minutes ago, Malcolm Malcolm said:

RTB was a big, big problem in the whole Chinese Democracy process. 

Sean Beavan and Bob Ezrin at least tried to help to achieve a decent 21st century rock album. I don't know what they were doing digging up a dinosaur like RTB. It didn't go well for the Smashing Pumpkins either.

This sounds fantastic. Great drum sound in particular.

It does sounds great, Josh Freese did the drumming on this, are you Malcolm Young or Malcolm in the middle? 

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38 minutes ago, Slash787 said:

It does sounds great, Josh Freese did the drumming on this, are you Malcolm Young or Malcolm in the middle? 

I like Axl's voice on this. It was very clever of him to claim that the clean voice was his Mickey Mouse voice and the fans just weren't into it.

I saw Josh Freese play live with NIN and it was the best display of drumming I've ever seen. Brain sounds fantastic though on the proshot live footage we have of him with GNR.

People are too hard on Frank - he's a pretty good drummer, but unfortunately he has to deal with comparisons to Steven Adler and three seriously big name drummers.

Haha I'd claim to be Malcolm Young because the guy was so good but unfortunately it wouldn't be ok because he's so unwell.

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On 9/28/2016 at 3:52 PM, Malcolm Malcolm said:

People are too hard on Frank - he's a pretty good drummer, but unfortunately he has to deal with comparisons to Steven Adler and three seriously big name drummers.

Hes not a good drummer in that he doesnt play for the songs, he plays for himself. You look at a drummer like the one for the White Stripes. She kept it simple, played to the music, not for her personal enjoyment. Chad Smith for the Red Hot Chili Peppers plays funky when its needed, and simple when its not. 

 

Frank is a bunch of unfitting fills in places where they dont belong. You dont do a fucking batshit crazy 32nd note fill in the middle of estrangeds guitar solo. He took the life out of the song Chinese Democracy, and from Better (listen to the demos drums)

 

You dont do fills that completely step over somebody elses part which add nothing to the song.

Edited by Mendez
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On 9/27/2016 at 7:08 AM, Jw224 said:

I've never understood the argument that the demo's are better. Maybe I'm misunderstanding? People keep saying the demo's sound more raw sounding, but isn't that the case with every demo recorded ever when compare to their finished, polished album counterparts? I understand they have less layers but they're the exact same songs lol. 

It's misleading to call them "demos"...they are leaks, not demos.

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4 hours ago, Mendez said:

Frank is a bunch of unfitting fills in places where they dont belong. You dont do a fucking batshit crazy 32nd note fill in the middle of estrangeds guitar solo. He took the life out of the song Chinese Democracy, and from Better (listen to the demos drums)

You dont do fills that completely step over somebody elses part which add nothing to the song.

The fills are unfitting only in your opinion. Personally I love his input on the songs.

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On September 25, 2016 at 0:40 PM, Slash787 said:

What released in 1999?

IMO Axl should have released his solo album in 1999. With bucket and Robin on guitars. I think that group could have made a couple really killer albums. 

Edited by Apollo
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9 hours ago, Mendez said:

Hes not a good drummer in that he doesnt play for the songs, he plays for himself. You look at a drummer like the one for the White Stripes. She kept it simple, played to the music, not for her personal enjoyment. Chad Smith for the Red Hot Chili Peppers plays funky when its needed, and simple when its not. 

 

Frank is a bunch of unfitting fills in places where they dont belong. You dont do a fucking batshit crazy 32nd note fill in the middle of estrangeds guitar solo. He took the life out of the song Chinese Democracy, and from Better (listen to the demos drums)

 

You dont do fills that completely step over somebody elses part which add nothing to the song.

So your real issue is with Axl then as he is the one who hired Frank, chose Frank for the regrouping tour, and has given Frank the go ahead to play in the style he does. Frank does what Axl tells and allows him to do. 

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56 minutes ago, Apollo said:

So your real issue is with Axl then as he is the one who hired Frank, chose Frank for the regrouping tour, and has given Frank the go ahead to play in the style he does. Frank does what Axl tells and allows him to do. 

No. Axl lets him play how he wants, he likely doesn't tell him to ride the kick drum and cymbals on PC (something he stopped doing after coachella iirc)

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6 hours ago, Mendez said:

No. Axl lets him play how he wants, he likely doesn't tell him to ride the kick drum and cymbals on PC (something he stopped doing after coachella iirc)

Lol. Axl - Mr Perfectionist - in the middle of a tour that will gross hundreds of millions of dollars and is repairing his image in the rock world  - is giving Frank free reign to do whatever he wants? 

(I apologize if you were being sarcastic). 

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1 hour ago, Apollo said:

Lol. Axl - Mr Perfectionist - in the middle of a tour that will gross hundreds of millions of dollars and is repairing his image in the rock world  - is giving Frank free reign to do whatever he wants? 

(I apologize if you were being sarcastic). 

He gave free reign to all of the guitarists during both of his "comeback"s (which at the time seemed arguably just as important to him as today) in 01/02 and 06/07 to do whatever they wanted with the solos for the old songs, so i wouldnt be surprised. 

 

Seems like someone told him to change his approach because he plays most of the songs (even the new ones) differently during this tour than in the april shows. Or he bucked up and did it himself after reading fans comments.

 

I just don't like his approach. Like at the end of the instrumental section in estranged where he does 8th notes on the kick drum to end the section. The same way he does it at the end of the verse before Robins solo in There Was a Time. Or at the part on Catcher "ought to find someone that belongs insane, like i do" where he does that 16th note fill. Or during Rocket Queens solo where he does starts going crazy with a bunch of fills over Slashs solo. I mean from a drumming standpoint it sounds cool, but doesnt fit the song at all.

Edited by Mendez
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