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It's pretty interesting to me how underappreciated the Illusion albums are


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I know the Illusion singles were immensely successful, however the general impression I get from people (who aren't too heavy into Guns) is that beyond the singles the albums aren't noteworthy.  When you take the singles and the deep cuts, there is so much awesome music on the Illusion albums.  They deserve more recognition.

 

 

Flowin' through life not collectin' anyone
So much out there
Still so much to see
Time's too much to handle
Time's too much for me
It drives me up the walls
Drives me out of my mind
Can you tell me what this means...huh!

 

She loved him yesterday....
Yesterday's over,
I said "okay"'
That's alright!

 

I tried to see it your way
It won't work today
You don't just step inside to 14 years
So hard to keep my own head...that's what I say
You know...I've been the dealer...hangin' on your street
I was the dog...they all tried to beat

 

But if I call you out of habit
I'm out of love and I gotta have it
Would you give it to me
If it fit your needs
Like when we both knew we had it
But now the damage's done
And we're back out on the run
Fun how ev'rything was roses
When we held on to the guns
Just because you're winnin'
Don't mean you're the lucky ones...

 

PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEASE, UNDERSTAAAAAAAAND MEEEE

So many amazing songs with sections that just give me chills. 

 


 

Edited by Caught_in_a_Coma
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the illusions was a pretty tight vision was going for and had all sorts of nuances and progressive directions which inherently perhaps make the albums appear to be not so loyal to the original guns spirit 

my thoughts are that they are brilliant but mainly finish at 80% of what could have been, mostly because of the lack of groove and bounce off izzy.steven

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AFD/Lies singles did WAY better than UYI singles :

Jungle : #7                                             YCBM: #29

SCOM : #1                                              Don't Cry: #10

PC : #5                                                   LLAD: #33

Patience: #4                                            November Rain: #3

Nightrain: #93                                         Yesterdays: #72

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2 hours ago, Nikki_Sixx said:

AFD/Lies singles did WAY better than UYI singles :

Jungle : #7                                             YCBM: #29

SCOM : #1                                              Don't Cry: #10

PC : #5                                                   LLAD: #33

Patience: #4                                            November Rain: #3

Nightrain: #93                                         Yesterdays: #72

Interesting

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UYI wasn't radio friendly but besides that I like the fact that people who start to discover GNR get to know the hits but nothing is as rewarding as diving deeper into their catalogue and finding out they weren't one hit wonders, these guys made great music and it's evident by the material on UYI. 

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10 hours ago, RONIN said:

Agreed. They are very underrated and a single album with a more discerning track listing would have been amazing. And if they had been mixed better with Steven drumming and Izzy's guitars being audible and.....it's so damn good as is, but they should and could have been so much better. A single album done properly without all the AXL bullshit and Izzy/Steven being featured more would have been one for the ages.

Here's what I don't understand -- people always downgrade these albums because there's too much filler. 25 years later -- knowing that Axl would only release one more album of new material (without the original band) -- isn't it a great thing that GnR (read: Alan Niven, Geffen, and Slash) forced themselves to release a double album of EVERYTHING in the vault before they imploded? We would never have even heard most of these songs had the band just released a single album.

I agree for the most part. But I don't think "Everything in the vault" was release. I think one or two songs are sides B of singles. But many others that can be found in bootlegs they just remained there. Since they could be found in bootlegs we can listen to them. But still they are not official release songs. Maybe there are a few more songs that we never heard in any shape or form. 

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10 hours ago, RONIN said:

Agreed. They are very underrated and a single album with a more discerning track listing would have been amazing. And if they had been mixed better with Steven drumming and Izzy's guitars being audible and.....it's so damn good as is, but they should and could have been so much better. A single album done properly without all the AXL bullshit and Izzy/Steven being featured more would have been one for the ages.

Here's what I don't understand -- people always downgrade these albums because there's too much filler. 25 years later -- knowing that Axl would only release one more album of new material (without the original band) -- isn't it a great thing that GnR (read: Alan Niven, Geffen, and Slash) forced themselves to release a double album of EVERYTHING in the vault before they imploded? We would never have even heard most of these songs had the band just released a single album.

I disagree with the Axl's bullshit comment. Axl's contributions of Estranged and November Rain alone forgives anything he said or did. Besides everyone wanted "their" stuff on the next album, Izzy came in with an album, Slash came in with his own album the only way to make everyone happy was throw everything on there, including the bs fillers from all three of our epic song writers (Axl, Izzy, and Slash) 

Point is if you take UYI and make one album you will need Axl's BS 

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On 10/1/2016 at 7:11 AM, Nikki_Sixx said:

AFD/Lies singles did WAY better than UYI singles :

 YCBM: #29

This still boggles my mind. First single in more than 2 years, featured in the year's biggest movie, featuring Arnie in the music video, released right in the middle of a successful tour, etc.

I know YCBM isn't the most radio friendly song but you would think with all that momentum it would break the top 20 at least. Summer '91 wasn't a strong time for music either...not a lot of 'superstars' released singles until later that year. 

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4 hours ago, IncitingChaos said:

I disagree with the Axl's bullshit comment. Axl's contributions of Estranged and November Rain alone forgives anything he said or did. Besides everyone wanted "their" stuff on the next album, Izzy came in with an album, Slash came in with his own album the only way to make everyone happy was throw everything on there, including the bs fillers from all three of our epic song writers (Axl, Izzy, and Slash) 

Point is if you take UYI and make one album you will need Axl's BS 

 

Nobody is saying Axl should not have been part of the album. That is like saying you don't want Axl to be part of GNR. It is ridiculous. Axl's songwriting and input in the songs was great. we are just talking about the production. That was Axl's fault. The songs should have been left alone. The only song that warranted the over the top production was November Rain. That song was made for it. A stripped down version would just not be the same. Had Izzy never quit and Steven never had a drug problem, the Illusions would have been bigger. 

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Some of the songs are just amazing.

Don't Cry, November Rain, Estranged, Yesterdays, 14 years and even You Could Be Mine

They have amazing lyrics, something I can relate to in different ways and the music is amazing too. 

Edited by Slash787
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1 hour ago, Slash787 said:

Some of the songs are just amazing.

Don't Cry, November Rain, Estranged, Yesterdays, 14 years and even You Could Be Mine

They have amazing lyrics, something I can relate to in different ways and the music is amazing too. 

Yes! All the songs you mentioned are some of my very favorites from these albums. They bring me me fond memories of my youth and will always be songs that never get old for me. Never.

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7 hours ago, SWINGTRADER said:

 

Nobody is saying Axl should not have been part of the album. That is like saying you don't want Axl to be part of GNR. It is ridiculous. Axl's songwriting and input in the songs was great. we are just talking about the production. That was Axl's fault. The songs should have been left alone. The only song that warranted the over the top production was November Rain. That song was made for it. A stripped down version would just not be the same. Had Izzy never quit and Steven never had a drug problem, the Illusions would have been bigger. 

Exactly. Illusions contains some of Axl's all-time best work from Dead Horse to Don't Damn Me. Those albums are a creative peak for not only him, but the entire band.

With the good ofcourse, comes the bad. Axl's insistence on adding layers upon layers of synth crap into the songs just changed their feel completely. It gave everything a more polished sheen, which was good in the sense that it made the albums seem like a more mature effort -- however, Axl went too far...there is so much overproduction that it makes the songs lose a lot of their edge and vitality. 

The drumming and just the sound of the album from a mixing pov is so crap compared to albums of that era like Nevermind, Ten, Black album, etc. Another instantly dated record from that era was "Dangerous" (Michael Jackson) -- great album, but the same problems: bloated tinny overproduced sound with unnecessary "effects". In retrospect, it highlights how rawer albums from indie rock bands in 1991 made UYI seem out of touch. UYI would have been fine with a minimalist touch, even with the multitude of epic songs. It's the way those songs are produced that completely fucked everything up in the eyes of the critics and fans.

I still love UYI though. UYI 2 tracks like Locomotive and Pretty Tied Up were so promising for the future of the band. It's only in retrospect from the Slash interviews that we know that those songs were just one-off's -- Slash didn't want these types of songs on the '96 follow-up album. I suppose neither did Izzy.

Edited by RONIN
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6 hours ago, SWINGTRADER said:

 

Nobody is saying Axl should not have been part of the album. That is like saying you don't want Axl to be part of GNR. It is ridiculous. Axl's songwriting and input in the songs was great. we are just talking about the production. That was Axl's fault. The songs should have been left alone. The only song that warranted the over the top production was November Rain. That song was made for it. A stripped down version would just not be the same. Had Izzy never quit and Steven never had a drug problem, the Illusions would have been bigger. 

The way I see it, everyone had to put their hand print on this album. Izzy would have quit sooner if they turned down his songs, Slash, would have refused to work on anyone else's songs, and Axl would have done the same and likely disappeared if he couldn't have the albums polished. 

So the UYI albums are just a combination of the good and bad of gnr. It could have been stripped down and had songs selected better to be closer to perfect and I'm sure the label tried, but honestly there wouldn't have been a band if they did that. Axl alludes to this in his "Famous Last Words" interview. 

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4 hours ago, RONIN said:

Exactly. Illusions contains some of Axl's all-time best work from Dead Horse to Don't Damn Me. Those albums are a creative peak for not only him, but the entire band.

With the good ofcourse, comes the bad. Axl's insistence of adding layers upon layers of synth crap into the songs just changed the feel of those songs. It made them sound more polished, which is good in the sense that it makes the albums seem like a more mature effort -- with that said, Axl went too far...there is so much overproduction that it makes the songs lose a lot of their edge/vitality. 

The drumming and just the sound of the album from a mixing pov is so crap compared to albums of that era like Nevermind, Ten, Black Album, etc. Another instantly dated album from that era from a big act was "Dangerous" from Michael Jackson -- amazing album, but the same problems: tinny overproduced sound with unnecessary "effects". In retrospect it makes sense how rawer albums from the more contemporary rock bands made UYI seem out of touch.

I still love UYI though. UYI 2 tracks like Locomotive and Pretty Tied Up were so promising for the future of the band. It's only in retrospect from the Slash interviews that we know that those songs were just one-off's -- Slash didn't want these types of songs on the '96 follow-up album. I suppose neither did Izzy.

Ten is a great album, it is PJs AFD in terms of consistently good music. Nirvana I can't really comment, I took a strong disliking to SLTS, that tainted their music for me for quite some time. While these albums may have been better produced & mixed than illusions, they still have a sound that is dated to a specific era in music. I understand that GnR don't have the catalog to truly match the doors & zeppelin, but that is where I personly categorise their music. Illusions could have been better but they are still perfect in their imperfection. To me guns captured timeless rock. Oh what could have been :facepalm:

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27 minutes ago, IncitingChaos said:

The way I see it, everyone had to put their hand print on this album. Izzy would have quit sooner if they turned down his songs, Slash, would have refused to work on anyone else's songs, and Axl would have done the same and likely disappeared if he couldn't have the albums polished. 

So the UYI albums are just a combination of the good and bad of gnr. It could have been stripped down and had songs selected better to be closer to perfect and I'm sure the label tried, but honestly there wouldn't have been a band if they did that. Axl alludes to this in his "Famous Last Words" interview. 

Izzy didn't even care anymore. He wrote his songs and submitted the tapes to Axl back in '89. He was the first guy to turn in his work and he didn't stick around even for the overdubs. Axl is on record saying that the only reason Izzy's songs even appear on UYI is because he wanted them there, Izzy couldn't care less.

Axl actually wanted to further delay the release of UYI -- apparently he had more tinkering left. What tinkering you might ask? Most likely cutting Izzy out of the album completely to screw him out of royalties. He had his chance with Spaghetti Incident where Izzy's parts were deleted in their entirety even though Izzy had recorded most off his rhythm parts for the album already.  

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