Rovim Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 (edited) 12 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said: You mean Korn's riff? It has a metal edge to it, Bucket's riff are part metal sometimes, but his Better bridge riff also has that vibe about it. So what you call Korn riff is just a metal type hard rock riff in Bucket's familiar style. And Shackler's riff fits the entire tune perfectly. The theme and Axl's vocal delivery on it is brilliant. So yeah... Korn's riff. They wrote it, Bucket stole it and sold it to Axl to write some shit on top and release as Guns. Korn also wrote all the riffs for Shackler's 1. Edited November 10, 2016 by Rovim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 1 minute ago, Rovim said: It has a metal edge to it, Bucket's riff are part metal sometimes, but his Better bridge riff also has that vibe about it. So what you call Korn riff is just a metal type hard rock riff in Bucket's familiar style. And Shackler's riff fits the entire tune perfectly. The theme and Axl's vocal delivery on it is brilliant. So yeah... Korn riff. Exact same riff: du-du-dee du-du-dee. Copyright infringement there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovim Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 Just now, DieselDaisy said: Exact same riff: du-du-dee du-du-dee. Copyright infringement there. See the rest of my post please. It explains all of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 Just now, Rovim said: See the rest of my post please. It explains all of it. Your posts drag on and on with endless detours into Axl's recording process, and whether or not Atlas Wanked will be on CD2 or 3. Must 1? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mendez Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Rovim said: Title track riff, Shackler's, Bucket's bridge riff in Better, There Was A Time's heavy riff and Robin's riff before Bucket's outro, plus Scraped and Riad both have rocking riffs. 8 good guitar riffs. There are many more smaller riff ideas like what Bumble does on the title track. Don't know what you're talking about. Chinese is not centered around riffs anyway, it's not riff rock like AFD and Illusions. And it's not Slash and Izzy. More a tapestry of smaller ideas that make a big one. Production doesn't even always highlight the riff, but it's all there. It's in a different style cause it's different people. Bucket's Shackler's riff provides Axl the base to pull an It's So Easy type vocals. The riff right after Better's 1st solo is Buckets? Or the 3/4 count riff after that (after the "I never wanted..." section)? If it's the first, how did you find that out? Edited November 10, 2016 by Mendez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovim Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 1 minute ago, Mendez said: The riff right after the 1st solo is Buckets? Or the 3/4 count killswitch-esque riff after that (after the "I never wanted..." section)? Right after the first solo is Bucket's bridge riff. Axl sings over the same riff. 3/4 killswitch riff is also Bucket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mendez Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 Just now, Rovim said: Right after the first solo is Bucket's bridge riff. Axl sings over the same riff. 3/4 killswitch riff is also Bucket. How did you find that out? The 3/4 riff sounds like Bucket (just because of the killswitch), but I never knew that he brought that bridge riff in. How cool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovim Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 2 minutes ago, Mendez said: How did you find that out? The 3/4 riff sounds like Bucket (just because of the killswitch), but I never knew that he brought that bridge riff in. How cool You're talking about the riff that starts at 3:10, correct? that's Bucket. If not, tell me where it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nosaj Thing Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 The worst piece of shit any Gn'R member has released since the band broke up in the mid 90s. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scooby845 Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 Libertad > Contraband > Chinese Democracy > Slash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mendez Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Rovim said: You're talking about the riff that starts at 3:10, correct? that's Bucket. If not, tell me where it is. No the one at 2:32, right after the solo. If that one is Bucket's, im surprised he didn't get any writing credits for that. Its a such a key riff/section in the song (and my favorite part of the song). I never knew that he brought that in. I already had the notion that the one at 3:10 was Bucket's just because of the killswitch effect. Edited November 10, 2016 by Mendez 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovim Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 1 minute ago, Mendez said: No the one at 2:32, right after the solo. If that one is Bucket's, im surprised he didn't get any writing credits for that. Its a such a key riff/section in the song (and my favorite part of the song). I never knew that he brought that in. That's Bucket. Yeah it's such a great riff. My favorite riff on the album probably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mendez Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Rovim said: That's Bucket. Yeah it's such a great riff. My favorite riff on the album probably. Damn how cool. How did you find that out? Is there an interview of some sort? I had seen one of Fortus's interview where he talks about and plays Better's verse and chorus riff, but he didn't mention the bridge at all. Edited November 10, 2016 by Mendez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BorderlineCrazy Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 6 minutes ago, Rovim said: Perhaps Axl doesn't only push them to really make it a Guns song, maybe it's also what so many fans don't like about some aspects of the music, but that's what defines it. Axl's approach. Axl's Paradise City Synths, Axl's keyboard orchestras for November Rain, Axl talking about how him and Slash were perfecting Slash's solos over the phone for Illusions, moving notes around and changing them. Finding the right production. Putting in the time and work cause he probably can't stand it if it's not perfect. Won't release it. I think this is why he wanted to delay Illusions some more and put Q sound on it like MJ. Izzy, Duff, Slash, and Adler don't care enough or are interested to make albums in that approach. Trying everything and making sure it's right seems to be the key for actually making the finish line when it comes to Guns records. They were at a loss after Illusions, but Axl already knew who were the right people without Izzy. Now that I think about it, Axl is pretty good at knowing who he wants to make an album with. So it was Paul Huge that was the guy to replace Izzy and Robin to replace Slash, Stinson replaced Duff, and Josh was the drummer. With that line up he finished a Guns album in 1999. We've heard some tunes from that era. Sounds like he already had the songs. Axl's vision for what Gn'R supposed to be is crucial if you wanna make a fully realized Gn'R album. The obsessive nature in which Axl creates and records was always a part of what makes Guns music sound like that. A huge part. Izzy can do a great Izzy album with many Gn'R elements in no time and release it, but he can never do an album that is essentially a Guns album like Chinese on his own. Axl has that ability, probably the only one from the bunch just because he cares and is good at taking a good idea and make it his own and great. Putting it together comes naturally for him. To me it's pretty much the opposite honestly. I think Chinese Democracy proved Axl could never in his life do a GNR record on his own (I'm not saying I don't like it, I love most of it). Izzy could come up in a few days with a bunch of songs that sound like they could turn into GNR with Axl and Slash's input. Axl on the other hand took a thousand years to release a record in which the only songs that are kinda reminiscent to GNR (to me anyways) are the piano based ones. Even with Slash's input, those songs still don't sound like GNR. Chinese Democracy doesn't sound more GNR than The Seeker, let alone Better. Also, it was Axl himself the one who said he wanted to do Appetite 2 but HE COULDN'T DO IT WITHOUT SLASH. I'm pretty certain neither of the 5 could do a proper GNR album on their own but Axl in particular seems to be way too far, he seems to lack that rock n' roll/hard rock essence that is a huge part of GNR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovim Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Mendez said: Damn how cool. How did you find that out? Is there an interview of some sort? I had seen one of Fortus's interview where he talks about and plays Better's verse and chorus riff, but he didn't mention the bridge at all. Yeah there was a Bumble interview where he talked about who did what, everything on the album, but it was clearly Bucket to me just cause I've been listening to his solo albums before that and kinda recognized his style and sound. Fortus only came up with the chorus riff, Robin came up with the 2 verse riffs (verse and the "all that I wanted" part) Edited November 10, 2016 by Rovim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F*ck Fear Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 I absolutely agree with the original post. Contraband comes in at a close second. Better Street Of Dreams There Was A Time Catcher In The Rye Sorry This I Love Prostitute In my honest opinion, these songs are better than anything the other guys have done. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mendez Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 Just now, Rovim said: Yeah there was a Bumble interview where he talked about who did what, everything on the album, but it was clearly Bucket to me just cause I've been listening to his solo albums and recognized his style. Fortus only came up with the chorus riff, Robin came up with the 2 verse riffs (verse and the "all that I wanted" part) Oh cool, I'll have to find that. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GNR 1991 Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 1 hour ago, moreblack said: There's nothing on Chinese that measures up to the Guns name. I don't get this argument. UYI I & II are loaded with filler, definitely certain tracks off CD mop the floor w/ some of GnR's older output. Better and TWAT are songs that absolutely live up to the Guns name imo. Off the top of my head, almost everything off CD is infinitely better than Anything Goes, Bad Apples, My World, Garden of Eden, Shotgun Blues, Get in the Ring, KOHD, and So Fine. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swedish Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 (edited) I don't know if it's the most "Guns N' Roses" out of the solo projects but I do like it a lot. World On Fire or It's Five O' Clock Somewhere with Axl on vocals would both have been great Guns N' Roses records! Edited November 11, 2016 by youngswedishvinyl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DR DOOM Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 Izzy's albums have the most "classic GNR" feel about them- out of all of the guys from the classic band his stuff resembles GNR the most. Chinese Democracy has maybe one song (The Blues) that sounds like GNR of old- maybe IRS at a push. The rest sound nothing like established "Guns N Roses" songs, unless you're counting MY WORLD. I found Velvet Revolver a real letdown, I was willing to overlook the fact that I can't stand Weiland but the tunes just weren't there...none of it compares to (real) GNR. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsh327 Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 The whole is greater than the sum of its parts. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Towelie Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 (edited) Take the six best songs from Contraband, and the six best songs from CD, and you have something which could possibly resemble an (albeit hypothetical) album of what original GNR could've sounded like in 2006. Okay, some of the lyrics, titles and melody lines on the Contraband tracks would've been different, but musically, the songs were completely intact and completed when presented to Weiland. If Slash/Duff/Matt had presented those same songs to Axl, we could've got a definitive 00's GNR album sans Izzy. To me, it is proof that they are strongest when pulling their respective talents together. An album like this would've been every bit as good as AFD and UYI imo: 1. Chinese Democracy 2. Shacklers Revenge 3. Better 4. Fall To Pieces 5. Big Machine 6. TWAT 7. Catcher In The Rye 8. You Got No Right 9. Slither 10. Dirty Little Thing 11. Madagascar 12. Loving The Alien Edited November 10, 2016 by Towelie 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovim Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 (edited) 2 hours ago, BorderlineCrazy said: To me it's pretty much the opposite honestly. I think Chinese Democracy proved Axl could never in his life do a GNR record on his own (I'm not saying I don't like it, I love most of it). Izzy could come up in a few days with a bunch of songs that sound like they could turn into GNR with Axl and Slash's input. Axl on the other hand took a thousand years to release a record in which the only songs that are kinda reminiscent to GNR (to me anyways) are the piano based ones. Even with Slash's input, those songs still don't sound like GNR. Chinese Democracy doesn't sound more GNR than The Seeker, let alone Better. Also, it was Axl himself the one who said he wanted to do Appetite 2 but HE COULDN'T DO IT WITHOUT SLASH. I'm pretty certain neither of the 5 could do a proper GNR album on their own but Axl in particular seems to be way too far, he seems to lack that rock n' roll/hard rock essence that is a huge part of GNR. I see a Guns album now like kinda a Stanley Kubrick movie set in the 90's that Axl is the director of, but also acts in. Izzy is the genius that was responsible for the old foundations of Guns, the old masterpieces but he's gone now, and you need the movie stars for it to have the same feel (Slash) if you wanna make another. Axl said for Chinese, he didn't want to make another Godfather 3. I think that's always something he takes into consideration: is it good enough? does it need to exist? Axl is not interested in making another Appetite. Just a guess, but I think his musical interests if at all is to show the world what his vision was and continues to be, not what kind of album he can do with Slash. More like what Slash can add to Axl's musical vision that he developed slowly and carefully with much thought and with the help of Paul, Robin, and Bucket as far as guitar players go. (cause Slash didn't want to be a part of it and build it with Axl for years) I believe it's more important for Axl to deliver the next chapter of Gn'R, still supercharged with his post cockrock influences, complicated arrangements like Queen, with maybe Slash and Duff to make it more Guns and reel it in to a more sensible place musically. It has been an Axl solo album since after Illusions including Illusions itself in some ways. Gonna be the same way for the next one as well if Axl will go for it. But most people will accept it as Guns if it has the high quality of Chinese, the tunes, raspy vocals, and Slash and Duff. Axl can theoretically release a trilogy in 2021 with Slash and Duff raping it just enough to make it all sound vintage. Cage to produce. Edited November 10, 2016 by Rovim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasted Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 2 hours ago, DieselDaisy said: You mean Korn's riff? That track illustrates it perfectly. Even in a Korn/Zombie style the dynamics of the song are so GNR. It has a YCBM meets Locomotive feel too. The same traits are in Shackler's as so many other songs. I think of it as the YCBM of CD. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Nova Posted November 10, 2016 Author Share Posted November 10, 2016 4 hours ago, wasted said: As a Guns records yes. No one else came close to writing GNR material as good as Chi dem, Better, Twat, Shackler's, Sorry, This I Love. What is surprising is that Slash didn't write another Jungle. Izzy didn't fully realised a Brownstone or Dust n Bones. That's probably Axl wasn't there to push them to produce that finished product. Stuff like Fall to Pieces and By the Sword have the potential. Time Gone by or Shuffle it All and many more I hear the potential. But the desire to make a GNR level album wasn't even there. They don't want to collab and make everything an anthem. So Axl's attitude and style do shape a GNR album. Fall to Pieces would have been the next SCOM. It would have surpassed Illusions material and would have been an all time classic with Axl and Slash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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