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Is Chinese Democracy the most "Guns" record out of all solo projects?


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I mean, I'd love to agree with the OP simply because it's Axl's record.... But no. Not when you have stuff like Snakepit, Slash's solo record, a big part of World on fire, Izzy's "GNR backbone" solo songs, Adler's stuff (which is actually the most GNR imo) and even some of Duff's music. 

The most Guns-esque things on CD are CD, SOD, TIL and OMG.

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1 hour ago, DieselDaisy said:

It has absolutely no resemblance to those two songs!!!

''You Could Be Mine'' is the most Appetite-esque song on Illusion; you have in place a Stradlin classic, a riff so sleazy it gives you a STD just listening to it; you have that gigantic build-up; blues rock guitars throughout; a punk-pop chorus - it is a terrific song. ''Locomotive'' is ten minutes long and is build around a chugging Slash riff, and also consists of this big piano outro.

How the heck do they resemble 'Shackler's Revenge'? They neither resemble it melodically, lyrically, in terms of influence. ''Shackler's'', as I recall, consists of one of those nu-metal riffs (basically it is Korn's ''Good God'') and has loads of shite shreddy fretless bollocks and beeps and farts and layers of things whistling off in the background. The lyrics are about guns as I recall.

That Korn (tuu tuu deee tuu tuu deee) riff (as you call it) only covers around 6 seconds of the whole song.... 

The guitar work on Chinese is superb and far more interesting than most of GN'R's discography imo, but it would be way more listeneable without BBF's power chords all over the place ( I do like some of his input, but overall he pretty much ruined everything with his unfitting tone and subpar creativity when it comes to playing rythm guitar). 

I still thank god for the Rock Band multitracks

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Well Basically it wasn't supposed to sound like previous albums but keep the spirit of Guns N' Roses (listen to Finck's TIL Solo, Prostitute, SOD) and I think Axl could highly achieve the sound he had in his mind. Industrial at some parts, but keeping the blues at other parts...

 

So your whole argument of CD not being close to GNR doesn't make sense because it wasn't supposed to be close in the very first place ('96) 

Edited by ©GnrPersia
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I guess you got to have rasp and Slash on a Guns album for it to be accepted by a large portion of the fan base.

The release of Chinese gave Axl a pretty good idea of what the fans want. That wasn't Chinese, but I don't think it was because the tunes weren't there.

He'll have to find a better balance between his vision and what some people perceive as a Guns album.

Rasp, less shred if you must, Slash, and more hard rock tunes.

I think Axl has the tunes, Slash got the sound, and when Axl talked about fans not really getting into his clean Chinese voice, it was like Brian May's leaked Catcher solo and how Axl didn't use it partly cause the fans didn't like it? he takes opinions into account, sometimes. (changed the lyrics to Better as well)

Now Axl can give people more of what they want but still dictate the musical direction and still mainly his songs or songs he approved. Chinese never stood a chance in 2008. Maybe in 2002 with a steady stream of albums and 1 line up.

Now most of the problems are mainly not there cause nobody in the band expects Axl to release an album without taking years to get it right. Everyone is just making money and will probably do solo projects to occupy their time.

 

Edited by Rovim
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2 hours ago, maynard said:

CD is an awful album. The solo on Shacklers is a pathetic attempt at sounding wild and different. It's basically not music. I love experimental music and I know when someone does it because it's their forte and when some do it to try to be something they're not. That's CD - Axl trying to be someone he's not. Ron BF Thal made the record even worse. Buckethead is far superior both in the melodic and experimental parts.

Axl trying to be Trent Reznor...  :rofl-lol::rofl-lol:

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10 minutes ago, Nosaj Thing said:

Axl trying to be Trent Reznor...  :rofl-lol::rofl-lol:

Thank god he realized he's not as good as Reznor and is now back wearing his spiked vest, working for ACDC and touring with Slash. Axl is a hard rock singer. Nothing else.

I'm glad he's done with the pretentious crap. Even the CD songs they are covering nowadays are all stripped down and with a more rocking sound.

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What often gets overlooked is how well Slash was able to structure these small licks throughout the songs that would basically surf next to Axl's vocal delivery and rhythm.

I look at the outro of something like 'Chinese Democracy' and then 'Right Next Door To Hell' and it's night and day. It's like Slash was almost harmonizing Axl's voice with his guitar.

I think TWAT comes closest to replicating that style of guitar play. I think that's what Chinese lacks the most. Guitar play that doesn't just intertwine with Axl, but compliments his lyrical delivery.

On that front, Slash is a god amongst men.

 

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Where are you going to produce sleazy blues licks? Not through Buckethead, Bumblefoot or any of the others as they - as talented as some of them were - would not know a Stonesy blues riff if it hit them in the face. That is why Axl needed Slash and Izzy.

I do not think there is a single decent riff on the entire album.

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28 minutes ago, FuriousStyles said:

What often gets overlooked is how well Slash was able to structure these small licks throughout the songs that would basically surf next to Axl's vocal delivery and rhythm.

I look at the outro of something like 'Chinese Democracy' and then 'Right Next Door To Hell' and it's night and day. It's like Slash was almost harmonizing Axl's voice with his guitar.

I think TWAT comes closest to replicating that style of guitar play. I think that's what Chinese lacks the most. Guitar play that doesn't just intertwine with Axl, but compliments his lyrical delivery.

On that front, Slash is a god amongst men.

 

Riad's chorus has a lead that goes around Axls vocal melody.  And Prostitute before the solo (the "I told you whrn I found you..." section) as well. Other than that, no other guitar play. And This I Love when Axl comes back, the solo is going with his vocals for the first part. Also with Chinese, I always saw the outro solo doing a call-and-answer with axls vocals (Filling the silences between vocal phrases, but holding a sustain when he started singing again) Thats all the instances that I remember

Obviously its not approached the same way (because no person thinks the same way), but its still there. It also doesnt help that the guitars were heavily copy and pasted (giving me the sense that: you're allowed to write the core songs, but no deviating outside of the basic structure).

 

Also on My Michelle, in the first verse, I think Slash's guitar "slide" fits very well in filling in the would-be silence ("but now shes undergrou-" "WRAWHHHH")

Edited by Mendez
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8 hours ago, Magnus Cavalerra said:

14 song that will make a great album.

Chinese Democracy
Slither
Better
Street of Dreams
Neither Can I
There Was a Time
Catcher in the Rye

Beggars And Hangers On
Back And Forth Again
Sorry
Fall To Pieces
Madagascar
Back To The Moment
Prostitute

1. CD

2. Slither

3. Better

4. By the sword

5. Fall to pieces

6. Ghost

7. Street of dreams

8.mean bone

9. Beautiful Dangerous

10. There was a time

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2 hours ago, Rovim said:

I guess you got to have rasp and Slash on a Guns album for it to be accepted by a large portion of the fan base.

The release of Chinese gave Axl a pretty good idea of what the fans want. That wasn't Chinese, but I don't think it was because the tunes weren't there.

He'll have to find a better balance between his vision and what some people perceive as a Guns album.

Rasp, less shred if you must, Slash, and more hard rock tunes.

I think Axl has the tunes, Slash got the sound, and when Axl talked about fans not really getting into his clean Chinese voice, it was like Brian May's leaked Catcher solo and how Axl didn't use it partly cause the fans didn't like it? he takes opinions into account, sometimes. (changed the lyrics to Better as well)

Now Axl can give people more of what they want but still dictate the musical direction and still mainly his songs or songs he approved. Chinese never stood a chance in 2008. Maybe in 2002 with a steady stream of albums and 1 line up.

Now most of the problems are mainly not there cause nobody in the band expects Axl to release an album without taking years to get it right. Everyone is just making money and will probably do solo projects to occupy their time.

 

Well, that's the thing for me. I don't mind who owns the name and those things, to me Axl's vision and GNR are two different things.

There's no way to make a GNR album when all the guys but one are gone IMO. If on top of that, you go in a completely different direction, there's no way I could see it as GNR, even if I love the album.

Now, that Axl, Slash and Duff are together, I still can't see them being able to do another Appetite (can't be done without Izzy's songwriting and Steven's sound IMO) which they probably don't want anyway, but I can see them doing a proper follow up to the Illusions records.

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6 hours ago, maynard said:

Thank god he realized he's not as good as Reznor and is now back wearing his spiked vest, working for ACDC and touring with Slash. Axl is a hard rock singer. Nothing else.

I'm glad he's done with the pretentious crap. Even the CD songs they are covering nowadays are all stripped down and with a more rocking sound.

No one is gonna get stripped down when it comes to studio material if it's ever released.

Axl toured with Angus cause he is his idol and got paid to do so. It's a huge honor and probably a highlight in his career.

Just a rock singer? not quite. Even a biased person can clearly see Axl brought magic to every single Gn'R release. It goes far beyond his unique vocals, without his abilities as a visionary Appetite would have been the final major creative stop for Guns.

Illusions, songs like Estranged and November rain, the way he pushed beyond AC/DC territory. Not just a singer. Pretentious crap will have many more rounds.

The more rocking sound and the shift to a more retro-vegas thing was there before Slash, since 2009 when DJ Ashba came along. You don't know what the fuck you're talking about as usual.

The only thing Axl has realized is that Slash and Duff have no problem with being slaves to his HUGE machine. South American delusions. Sure. It's all stripped down with Mellisa on the synths and backing vocals. Axl orders. With Fortus noodling for 10 min on KOHD.

Shit is so stripped down, it's almost like an unplugged experience. They're gonna bring a sofa on stage anyday now and Adler could be a part of the show at least visually for longer.

Edited by Rovim
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7 hours ago, DR DOOM said:

There's nothing good about any of "Bumble's" additions to Chinese Democracy.

Wagszilla is dead on with the negative space comment.

this is ridiculous. Bumble did to CD what Slash did to early GNR albums. There was never empty/negative space on GNR songs. Appetite is king of kings when it comes to guitar interplay and no negative space in sight

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1 minute ago, the rush said:

this is ridiculous. Bumble did to CD what Slash did to early GNR albums. There was never empty/negative space on GNR songs. Appetite is king of kings when it comes to guitar interplay and no negative space in sight

You know the band Queen? good band, but the lack of negative space in the tunes really hurts the experience. Axl is too influenced by bands that don't appreciate negative space and that is why I believe Chinese lacked something missing.

But between albums Axl is king when it comes to space and time.

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I don't know what you mean with "most guns" album from all the solo projects. IMO, VR and snake pit sounds closer to the classic guns albums because they sound like a hard rock band, not an industrial rock/ metal one, but it sure is the best quality wise, VR is mostly garbage with some hits, same with snake pit and the conspirators have an eunuch as a singer that totally blows.

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My opinion is that CD might not have the GNR sound (meaning the sound of instruments) but it has the most GNR sound in a structural song composition sense. Songs on Chinese are more dramatic, visual, complex, creative than what others managed to do. VR and Snakepit have good songs (my favorite album is Ain't Life Grand), some of them better than what's on CD but they lack the above mentioned qualities that GNR songs have. They're just good rock songs. GNR transcends rock and some of CD songs do that also

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