Is Chinese Democracy the most "Guns" record out of all solo projects?

[BorderlineCrazy]

My god... 

Let's get back on topic.

[wasted]

However good Contraband or Ju ju hounds is I don't think they were made trying to be GNR.

CD was made in that way and it shows. Sometimes I forget it's not accepted as GNR. It's like Black Spiderman or something. The anti-hero is way cooler than Peter Parker. 

[Free Bird]

6 minutes ago, wasted said:

However good Contraband or Ju ju hounds is I don't think they were made trying to be GNR.

CD was made in that way and it shows. Sometimes I forget it's not accepted as GNR. It's like Black Spiderman or something. The anti-hero is way cooler than Peter Parker. 

You are totally right, Contraband and Ju Ju Hounds weren't made to be Guns.

But they aren't the only sideprojects out there. It's 5 o'clock and Adler are more Guns than CD ever was.

Hell... even WOF is

Edited November 16, 2016 by Free Bird

[Rovim]

4 hours ago, Free Bird said:

It's 5 o'clock and Adler are more Guns than CD ever was.

Hell... even WOF is

Fuck no. Snakepit is Southern Cock rock and World On Fire mostly Cock Rock from the the 80's. Adler... nvm.

None of it is worthy to be Gn'R except selected tunes like By The Sword, Fall to Pieces, and Izzy solo tunes. Chinese was designed to sound like Guns and it does, at least partially and with added influences. It is the closest thing as an album to a Guns album.

Edited November 16, 2016 by Rovim

[DieselDaisy]

Say what you want about that first Snakepit album, the cock rock lyrics and singing, but it has some colossal riffs on there. Slash was basically at his peak then.

[Rovim]

9 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Say what you want about that first Snakepit album, the cock rock lyrics and singing, but it has some colossal riffs on there. Slash was basically at his peak then.

Correct. There were some cool mean riffs there. But according to Axl, Slash was adamant on keeping it Southern Cock Rock. Wanted that to be the next Guns album...as is. lol.

Like... even if you don't believe Axl at all, would you really like that to be a Guns album? you're an Izzy fan, it sounded like shit with a bunch of boneheaded guys and Slash. Weak. Not good enough.

Slash's guitar playing is incredible on it. But it's not attached to timeless tunes like Guns albums and I think Axl and Duff saw that it lacked Gn'R elements.

Chinese is way more Guns than Contraband and Snakepit combined. Axl could have easily come up with a better album with Izzy. It's funny that Axl now has one Izzy tune (Down By The Ocean) and another tune Slash came up with, older.

It's almost as if Slash and Izzy really work well in a band together with Duff and Adler. Odd. They need each other to make it full Guns.

Edited November 16, 2016 by Rovim

[Free Bird]

39 minutes ago, Rovim said:

Fuck no. Snakepit is Southern Cock rock and World On Fire mostly Cock Rock from the the 80's. Adler... nvm.

None of it is worthy to be Gn'R except selected tunes like By The Sword, Fall to Pieces, and Izzy solo tunes. Chinese was designed to sound like Guns and it does, at least partially and with added influences. It is the closest thing as an album to a Guns album.

Say what you want. Slash couldn't have save CD. It was Axl's idea of something that has got very little to do with the sound of GNR. 

But Snakepit 1 had the potential to be a Guns album with Axl's and Duff's input. I won't mention Izzy because he wasn't there at the time.

However, that's still the most Guns sounding record out of Guns, period.

[Free Bird]

40 minutes ago, Rovim said:

Correct. There were some cool mean riffs there. But according to Axl, Slash was adamant on keeping it Southern Cock Rock. Wanted that to be the next Guns album...as is. lol.

Like... even if you don't believe Axl at all, would you really like that to be a Guns album? you're an Izzy fan, it sounded like shit with a bunch of boneheaded guys and Slash. Weak. Not good enough.

Slash's guitar playing is incredible on it. But it's not attached to timeless tunes like Guns albums and I think Axl and Duff saw that it lacked Gn'R elements.

Chinese is way more Guns than Contraband and Snakepit combined. Axl could have easily come up with a better album with Izzy. It's funny that Axl now has one Izzy tune (Down By The Ocean) and another tune Slash came up with, older.

It's almost as if Slash and Izzy really work well in a band together with Duff and Adler. Odd. They need each other to make it full Guns.

I don't believe Axl because it's completely out of logic what he said.

And of course, this album with the input of the others could be a pretty amazing Guns album. 

They didn't even had to use all the songs. Use the 4 or 5 best of them, use some Axl songs, use some Duff songs and work on them all together... 

But working together was the real problem, not the songwriting. 

Edited November 16, 2016 by Free Bird

[DieselDaisy]

I do not agree, and further, I do not detect much 'southern rock' on it. It is more Aerosmith-esque hard rock, with big fat blues riffs. Where is this southern rock supposed to be?

[Free Bird]

I don't know it either. Maybe the bluesy Neither Can I, other than that the only song with a touch of a southern feeling could be Hangers And Beggars On

[KiraMPD]

So I've been listening to Gn'R albums back to back for the past two days and I once again wonder... what was their "style" exactly? AFD? But that was just one album. Lies has AFD like track but then again those songs were written at around the same time, if not before, AFD. To me 80% of Illusions I & II sounds significantly different to AFD and the only songs that sound like AFD are ones we now know to be written before or around the time of AFD. In fact the Illusions albums often sounds like a cluster-fuck of miss-matched songs. And lets not even speak of the cover album...

So when we think of a "Guns" records, are we listening for one that sounds most like AFD? But again that was just one album and I don't think anything released by any of the classic lineup after the fact sounds like that. Maybe a riff here, a melody there is reminiscent of it but non of it comes close to the vibe and meaning of those songs.

[Rovim]

31 minutes ago, KiraMPD said:

So I've been listening to Gn'R albums back to back for the past two days and I once again wonder... what was their "style" exactly? AFD? But that was just one album. Lies has AFD like track but then again those songs were written at around the same time, if not before, AFD. To me 80% of Illusions I & II sounds significantly different to AFD and the only songs that sound like AFD are ones we now know to be written before or around the time of AFD. In fact the Illusions albums often sounds like a cluster-fuck of miss-matched songs. And lets not even speak of the cover album...

So when we think of a "Guns" records, are we listening for one that sounds most like AFD? But again that was just one album and I don't think anything released by any of the classic lineup after the fact sounds like that. Maybe a riff here, a melody there is reminiscent of it but non of it comes close to the vibe and meaning of those songs.

Classic members bring their sound with them and take it away from you like jesus when they're gone.

[Free Bird]

34 minutes ago, Rovim said:

Classic members bring their sound with them and take it away from you like jesus when they're gone.

That's the point

[DieselDaisy]

I reiterate my question about there being 'southern rock' present? Where is it? I detect no specific Skynyd or Allman Brothers influences that cannot be vectored to the more obvious Aerosmith/Stones style one more commonly associates with Slash? Where is the country pickin' and lyrics exhorting blue collar southern virtues?

 

[janrichmond]

8 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

I reiterate my question about there being 'southern rock' present? Where is it? I detect no specific Skynyd or Allman Brothers influences that cannot be vectored to the more obvious Aerosmith/Stones style one more commonly associates with Slash? Where is the country pickin' and lyrics exhorting blue collar southern virtues?

 

There are no Southern Rock type songs on 5 o'clock Somewhere.IMO.

[Apollo]

CD sounds the most like a GnR album because it features the GnR vocalist, the main lyricist from GnR, and the main songwriter from GnR. 

That seems pretty obvious. 

[Caught_in_a_Coma]

On 11/10/2016 at 8:16 PM, BreakDown2014 said:

By far the best thing any of the big 5 has done since the Illusions. I completely agree with OP

My thoughts as well

[Mendez]

1 hour ago, janrichmond said:

There are no Southern Rock type songs on 5 o'clock Somewhere.IMO.

I have no real exposure to Southern Rock, but I will say that the rocker songs that seem like a departure from the GNR sound would have to be Beggars and Hanger On, Neither Can I, Jizz da Pit, Take it Away, and Back and Forth Again. But didn't Slash only bring 5 or 6 of the songs to GNR? There were other songs that were cowritten by Izzy, Gilby and Duff, so maybe its those 5 or 6 that he brought that were Southern Rock influenced. But I also consider: its Slash, so where it may have been rooted in southern rock, he definitely cranked it up to 10.

 

Edited November 16, 2016 by Mendez

[DieselDaisy]

5 minutes ago, Mendez said:

I have no real exposure to Southern Rock, but I will say that the rocker songs that seem like a departure from the GNR sound would have to be Beggars and Hanger On, Neither Can I, Jizz da Pit, Take it Away, and Back and Forth Again. But didn't Slash only bring 5 or 6 of the songs to GNR? There were other songs that were cowritten by Izzy, Gilby and Duff, so maybe its those 5 or 6 that he brought that were Southern Rock influenced. But I also consider: its Slash, so where it may have been rooted in southern rock, he definitely cranked it up to 10.

 

None of it is southern rock though. It is the usual Aerosmith/Stonesy rock which one associates with Slash. Beggars' riff is clearly from the same pen as Jungle. When one says 'southern rock', one usually envisions country influenced ballads and rock songs with southern 'scratch' picking. 

[Blackstar]

I agree that 5 o'clock Somewhere is not southern rock influenced; it's what Axl has described as "Slash based blues rock". That Axl discarded it as southern rock is something we know only from Duff's book (Duff says he agreed with Axl on that). I've always found it strange (regardless of whether it actually sounds like southern rock or not), because, if there are any GnR songs with southern rock/country rock elements, these are Axl's songs like Dead Horse and Breakdown; not to mention SCOM, which Axl has said he considered (and wanted it) to be GnR's tribute to Lynyrd Skynyrd.

I think that maybe Duff projected his own opinion on Axl or he used the term "southern rock" as a synonym to "blues rock".

This what Axl himself said:

Rose: ... I mean, what people don't know is, the [Slash's] Snakepit album, that is the Guns N' Roses album. I just wouldn't do it.

Loder: Really?

Rose: Oh, yeah! Duff walked out on it, and I walked out on it, because I wasn't allowed to be any part of it. It's like, "No, you do this, that's how it is." And I didn't believe in it. I thought that there were riffs and parts and some ideas, I thought, that needed to be developed. I had no problem working on it, or working with it, but you know, as is, I think I'm with the public on that one.

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/articles/showarticle.php?articleid=28

So, according to Axl, the reason he rejected it is that he wanted to make changes and Slash wouldn't let him. Slash has said (Marc Canter confirmed it, too) that Axl finally agreed to do 4-5 songs and he told him "forget it, it's gone now".

In the end it was all about control. There had always been disagreements between them on the musical direction, but while until then they had been able to work it out and come to a consensus of some sort, at that point the "artistic differences" became part of the power game and they were ditching each other's ideas for not being GnR. I find it similarly strange that Slash didn't want to do a Pearl Jam sounding album and then he formed a STP sounding band with Scott Weiland.

Edited November 17, 2016 by Blackstar

[Chewbacca]

The only two moments It's 5 'o clock sound like a southern rock album are the slide licks on the intro and the main riff on Beggars. Neither Can I, with that harmônica, has a faint delta blues feel to it. It definetely doesn't sound like Skynyrd or Down.

Edited November 17, 2016 by Chewbacca

[wasted]

I hate Everybody but You seemed like the next GNR rocker when I heard it. 

Neither Can I had soft/loud dynamics of Civil war. 

Time Gone By and Shuffle it All could have been GNR songs

add Catcher and TIL

it's a strong side of GNR. 

 

[Rovim]

7 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

I reiterate my question about there being 'southern rock' present? Where is it? I detect no specific Skynyd or Allman Brothers influences that cannot be vectored to the more obvious Aerosmith/Stones style one more commonly associates with Slash? Where is the country pickin' and lyrics exhorting blue collar southern virtues?

 

Southern Cock. I'm sorry, but I'm just not into that sort of shit. It's not full South all the time, but definitely you can hear it in some of the riffs, shitty country cock lyrics, and just the sounds Slash makes with his guitar, note choices lean more towards a more Aerosmith cock rock vibe, but with a really annoying cowboy vibe.

Cowboy Rock. I think that's what it is. Duff said in his book I think he wasn't into that Southern thing, but I'm not sure. Read it a while back. Axl used the same word.

I can hear it, even if there are some good ideas there, the vibe is all wrong. You can do it right like Slash did in Paradise City intro, and sometimes in his solos, but here it sound like it's too much. I dislike it. Whatever you want to call it.

[DieselDaisy]

1 minute ago, Rovim said:

Southern Cock. I'm sorry, but I'm just not into that sort of shit. It's not full South all the time, but definitely you can hear it in some of the riffs, shitty country cock lyrics, and just the sounds Slash makes with his guitar, note choices lean more towards a more Aerosmith cock rock vibe, but with a really annoying cowboy vibe.

Cowboy Rock. I think that's what it is. Duff said in his book I think he wasn't into that Southern thing, but I'm not sure. Read it a while back. Axl used the same word.

I can hear it, even if there are some good ideas there, the vibe is all wrong. You can do it right like Slash did in Paradise City intro, and sometimes in his solos, but here it sound like it's too much. I dislike it. Whatever you want to call it.

I disagree on all accounts.

[Rovim]

Just now, DieselDaisy said:

I disagree on all accounts.