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Wacky World of The Ominous Ninja Izzy Stradlin and NO! Gang


SerenityScorp

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Great article, intresting the article. So Axl wanted to run the show, and Guns n Roses and he decided not be a part of it. nothing new to us but I feel this has a lot to do with where we stand now. Izzy not going to come back unless he gets equal say in how things are done, I would say this is more important to him than the money issue. 

Such a shame that the Juju hounds didn't go further.

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3 hours ago, Archtop said:

Great article, intresting the article. So Axl wanted to run the show, and Guns n Roses and he decided not be a part of it. nothing new to us but I feel this has a lot to do with where we stand now. Izzy not going to come back unless he gets equal say in how things are done, I would say this is more important to him than the money issue

Such a shame that the Juju hounds didn't go further.

Absolutely. I've been saying this since day one after the "loot tweet". For Izzy is more about recognition than money. That's what Tracii Guns meant too when he posted his message about Izzy "staying true to himself". He didn't put up with that shit in '91 and he isn't going to do it now and I love him for that. But well, people take it literally and don't even try to read between the lines when all the facts seem to indicate that there's more to it than just money.

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1 hour ago, Darkenchantress said:

Absolutely. I've been saying this since day one after the "loot tweet". For Izzy is more about recognition than money. That's what Tracii Guns meant too when he posted his message about Izzy "staying true to himself". He didn't put up with that shit in '91 and he isn't going to do it now and I love him for that. But well, people take it literally and don't even try to read between the lines when all the facts seem to indicate that there's more to it than just money.

 I would disagree with that. I honestly think that for Izzy, GNR has primarily been about the money for a long time. Maybe since the beginning. He did an interview once where he said he would get high in the late 80's and go through paperwork and call the lawyers asking about the money and where it was going. For all their interviews, you never heard the other guys saying stuff like that. He told Marc Cantor that he wanted old footage to make simple videos because the videos Axl planned cost too much money. People say "but he quit at the height of GNR" but that isn't quite true. You made money off albums in those days and the UYI's were already done and ready to come out. His residuals were safe. The UYI tour was hemorrhaging money from extravagance and lawsuits and fines- they had to do the Skin and Bones tour just to break even. Izzy has said the final straw for him was Axl wanting to reduce his pay because he didn't move around enough. He said he only came back to do those shows in 1993 for a salary. Slash and Duff seemed unlikely to survive in those years and Axl was at risk of losing his damn mind. Izzy could see the writing on the wall with the band and got his lawyer to make a deal where he was paid a portion of GNR profits through 1997- probably knowing that the band was unlikely to last that long anyway. And he was right. Axl said he asked for and got a large amount of money to come back and do shows in 2006. I have no doubt that we saw him as much as we did in 2006 for one reason- Izzy did something a few years earlier that is often wildly expensive for a man. He got divorced. Then there was the Loot tweet in 2016. Having equal say in how things are done now doesn't mean going into the clubhouse with the other guys to make some decisions- it means hiring managers and lawyers to meet with everybody else's managers and lawyers so that they can hammer out a plan. That's the biggest sign for me that Izzy never had any intention of getting overly involved with this thing. He probably knew about it since at least 2014, and never made a move to hire managent to get involved in the proceedings. 

There's nothing wrong with wanting to be paid well for your work. Izzy's solo music is basically hobby music that he is kind enough to share with fans. He makes his money off GNR and always has. I understand where everyone is coming from, I love the guy too, but I would just hesitate to say that Izzy is too full of integrity to get involved with this and that all he wants is respect etc because then, when and if he does get on that stage with them, he looks like a putz. That leads to people saying things like, "I hope he doesn't do an appearance, that he holds true to himself." Which is just ridiculous. Then we are holding him to a standard he didn't create for himself. If he shows up we should say "Yay! I hope he was paid wild amounts of money for this! God knows, there's plenty to go around!"

I feel terrible even writing this and that's dumb. Izzy doesn't make money from his solo music  (or a very, very nominal amount). He doesn't write books or tour or do reality shows (thank god). He's not endorsing products. GNR is his livelihood.  And that's okay. Doesn't make him any less cool.

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@beautifulanddamned your post is great and I get your points but I stick to my thinking. i don't think the quitting had that much to do with money. Obviously, reducing his payment also reduced his status which is just insulting. Same for the videos. He didn't like the videos and he chose not to be on them cause he said he didn't have any say on them. Of course, he cares about the money, we all do, unfortunately money is necessary for living, I just don't think that the problem of Izzy Stradlin not being in GnR right now is as simple as money. After all, if he was in he would be doing some money from the tour, staying home taking care of his avocados he isn't.:shrugs:

Edited by Darkenchantress
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I respect your opinion, of course, and we can agree to disagree.  :)

It honestly doesn't really matter, it just think it's weird that anyone would rather not see Izzy appear than appear and give up on his principles. Principles he never said he held in the first place.  Or that someone just wouldn't go see a show in some kind of protest for Izzy. I view it as simply getting involved in the business decisions of a bunch of millionaires who could give a shit about us.  

It's interesting. One of the reasons people seem to feel so passionately about Izzy is that, since we know so little about him, we can fill in the blanks how we see fit.  Everyone does it.  Remember at the beginning of the avocado incident when people were literally saying, "this cannot be Izzy, Izzy is much cooler than this!" I'm sure he is cool- but he was also a man in his 50's trying to master social media for the first time. But people could not believe it.  Legend before the man.

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2 hours ago, beautifulanddamned said:

 Remember at the beginning of the avocado incident when people were literally saying, "this cannot be Izzy, Izzy is much cooler than this!" I'm sure he is cool- but he was also a man in his 50's trying to master social media for the first time. But people could not believe it.  Legend before the man.

Hahaha, I actually find his awkward twitter skills adorable. When he tweets I have a funny mental image of him "fighting" with new technologies all the time :lol: but I get what you're saying.

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6 hours ago, beautifulanddamned said:

 I would disagree with that. I honestly think that for Izzy, GNR has primarily been about the money for a long time. Maybe since the beginning. He did an interview once where he said he would get high in the late 80's and go through paperwork and call the lawyers asking about the money and where it was going. For all their interviews, you never heard the other guys saying stuff like that. He told Marc Cantor that he wanted old footage to make simple videos because the videos Axl planned cost too much money. People say "but he quit at the height of GNR" but that isn't quite true. You made money off albums in those days and the UYI's were already done and ready to come out. His residuals were safe. The UYI tour was hemorrhaging money from extravagance and lawsuits and fines- they had to do the Skin and Bones tour just to break even. Izzy has said the final straw for him was Axl wanting to reduce his pay because he didn't move around enough. He said he only came back to do those shows in 1993 for a salary. Slash and Duff seemed unlikely to survive in those years and Axl was at risk of losing his damn mind. Izzy could see the writing on the wall with the band and got his lawyer to make a deal where he was paid a portion of GNR profits through 1997- probably knowing that the band was unlikely to last that long anyway. And he was right. Axl said he asked for and got a large amount of money to come back and do shows in 2006. I have no doubt that we saw him as much as we did in 2006 for one reason- Izzy did something a few years earlier that is often wildly expensive for a man. He got divorced. Then there was the Loot tweet in 2016. Having equal say in how things are done now doesn't mean going into the clubhouse with the other guys to make some decisions- it means hiring managers and lawyers to meet with everybody else's managers and lawyers so that they can hammer out a plan. That's the biggest sign for me that Izzy never had any intention of getting overly involved with this thing. He probably knew about it since at least 2014, and never made a move to hire managent to get involved in the proceedings. 

There's nothing wrong with wanting to be paid well for your work. Izzy's solo music is basically hobby music that he is kind enough to share with fans. He makes his money off GNR and always has. I understand where everyone is coming from, I love the guy too, but I would just hesitate to say that Izzy is too full of integrity to get involved with this and that all he wants is respect etc because then, when and if he does get on that stage with them, he looks like a putz. That leads to people saying things like, "I hope he doesn't do an appearance, that he holds true to himself." Which is just ridiculous. Then we are holding him to a standard he didn't create for himself. If he shows up we should say "Yay! I hope he was paid wild amounts of money for this! God knows, there's plenty to go around!"

I feel terrible even writing this and that's dumb. Izzy doesn't make money from his solo music  (or a very, very nominal amount). He doesn't write books or tour or do reality shows (thank god). He's not endorsing products. GNR is his livelihood.  And that's okay. Doesn't make him any less cool.

I understand where you're coming from but I have to disagree. (Sorry! :()

In the early 90's Izzy had plenty of opportunities to join bands that were close to GNR's size - even Aerosmith was rumored - but he turned them down to do the Juju Hounds. Which I'm sure didn't bring in a lot of dough. They probably only broke even in the end. Later on there's VR, he was there before Dave Kushner and could of easily been a founding member of that band. Everyone knew VR was going to make a buttload of cash because of the lineup but he still walked away from it all.

Also, his divorce (I think?) was in 2000 or 2001? By 2006 he was already with that French woman who you can see in some of the tour pictures as well as at the key club with Adler. I don't think the divorce motivated his return to GNR at all.

Guns+N+Roses+2012.jpg

Plus, wouldn't you want a hefty fee to appear on a stage with this lot? I know I would. :P Can't blame him for that.

I don't doubt that Izzy cares about the money to an extent but I don't think it's any more so than an average person. If anything I think he was aware that GNR was an easy target for leeches and wanted to make sure his ducks were in a row before he got ripped off. Pretty smart of him to keep an eye on it actually, the amount of musicians that got screwed by their management/record labels in the 80s is insane.

On top of that... even right now at 55, with the right management, Izzy could do well on his own or join another band. 55 isn't that old you guys, some of you act like he's got one foot in the grave already. Izzy's still got a good chunk of his life ahead of him. :lol: Look at the Stones & Paul McCartney, they're in their 70s and still killing it and having a blast.

I just don't see money being a huge motivating factor with him. I think he's just protective of what he has and maybe that comes across the wrong way at times? :shrugs:

Edited by Kris_1989
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5 hours ago, beautifulanddamned said:

 I would disagree with that. I honestly think that for Izzy, GNR has primarily been about the money for a long time. Maybe since the beginning. He did an interview once where he said he would get high in the late 80's and go through paperwork and call the lawyers asking about the money and where it was going. For all their interviews, you never heard the other guys saying stuff like that. He told Marc Cantor that he wanted old footage to make simple videos because the videos Axl planned cost too much money. 

Probably the same article that states once he got sober, he needed to gain some control over his finances, he went through paperwork and didn't understand the bank balances called the lawyers/accountants to explain it too him. Slash and Duff were still in there intoxicated states and obliviouse or not caring what was going on around them if your blowing massive amount of money on drugs and alchol do you really care how much of it there is? as long as you are covering your life style your not going to ask where the rest is being spent. Once seeing the expenditure Izzy probably got a shock and tried to regain control in some way, one of the obvious ways would questioning the extravagant amount of money spent on epic videos. I don't see this  primarily being about money, but an example of Izzy waking up and needing to take control of his life.

5 hours ago, beautifulanddamned said:

People say "but he quit at the height of GNR" but that isn't quite true. You made money off albums in those days and the UYI's were already done and ready to come out. His residuals were safe. The UYI tour was hemorrhaging money from extravagance and lawsuits and fines- they had to do the Skin and Bones tour just to break even. Izzy has said the final straw for him was Axl wanting to reduce his pay because he didn't move around enough. He said he only came back to do those shows in 1993 for a salary. Slash and Duff seemed unlikely to survive in those years and Axl was at risk of losing his damn mind. Izzy could see the writing on the wall with the band and got his lawyer to make a deal where he was paid a portion of GNR profits through 1997- probably knowing that the band was unlikely to last that long anyway. And he was right. 

 

This  isn't exactly my understanding of the situation. I have read he cut a deal with the lawyers on leaving the band for his shares, part of the deal, he would be paid a portion of the profits up until 1997.  However he had not been paid what was initially due to him, so in 1993 when Gilby's arm broke he offered to fill the gap if they settled what was owed. Once again not an example of being motivated by money but ensuring your paid what you are legally due.

The 2006 tour in interview, Izzy says he felt like getting back on the road and playing to an audience and making that connection,  Axl says he thought it was Izzy wanting to reconnect with him and asked him to show up for some shows, later he says hewas surprised to find out how much money Izzy had been paid. Izzy got divorced in 2001, he probably would have had a pre-nup in place protecting the money he made prior to marriage, his wife might have had rights to money's earnt whilst married and property but I'm willing to bet this was no big pay day for her in comparison to celebrity divorces and I doubt it was the motivation for joing Axl in 2006.

5 hours ago, beautifulanddamned said:

Then there was the Loot tweet in 2016. Having equal say in how things are done now doesn't mean going into the clubhouse with the other guys to make some decisions- it means hiring managers and lawyers to meet with everybody else's managers and lawyers so that they can hammer out a plan. That's the biggest sign for me that Izzy never had any intention of getting overly involved with this thing. He probably knew about it since at least 2014, and never made a move to hire managent to get involved in the proceedings. 

Yes and this is exactly where we lose Izzy in my opinon, I get the impression he wants to talk to his old band mates across a table, thrash out how to do a reunion, split the profits and then take it to the managers and lawyers and let them sort out all the legal shit. All we have learnt so far regarding reunion negotiations is that there were non, it was decided by Axl, Slash and Duff. It was later Izzy and Steven were approached, there may have been rumblings but why hire a legal team and management until it's really looks likley to go ahead and he is invited to join? Who knows if he had representation or not, but I bet when they spoke to Izzy, they had already lost him and not even the money could bring him on board.

5 hours ago, beautifulanddamned said:

There's nothing wrong with wanting to be paid well for your work. Izzy's solo music is basically hobby music that he is kind enough to share with fans. He makes his money off GNR and always has. I understand where everyone is coming from, I love the guy too, but I would just hesitate to say that Izzy is too full of integrity to get involved with this and that all he wants is respect etc because then, when and if he does get on that stage with them, he looks like a putz. That leads to people saying things like, "I hope he doesn't do an appearance, that he holds true to himself." Which is just ridiculous. Then we are holding him to a standard he didn't create for himself. If he shows up we should say "Yay! I hope he was paid wild amounts of money for this! God knows, there's plenty to go around!"

Integrity to me means, standing up for what you believe in and staying true to ones self, I think Izzy was not happy with an offer he was made so he stayed true to what he believed, by not getting involved. The tour is a cash grab as most tours are, you point out that this the only way muscians can really make money these days, Axl, Slash and Duff are here to make money and I don't begrudge them that at all,  I also would not begrudge Izzy or see him as a putz if he did decide to join them, I would assume he negotiated terms that work for him.

I get that this post makes me somewhat look like an Izzy nutswinger? but I am equally able to call him out for things I see wrong, it just some of the points you made I see differently, I wish I could support some of the opinions with the articles I have read, but I'm crap at recalling these things. If anyone can help me out, there is definantly an article about being sober and getting to grips withe bank statements, as there is also  one where he mentions the financial settlement on leaving Guns and and having to cover Gilby to get them to pay up.

 

 

 

Edited by Archtop
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2 hours ago, Fourteenbeers said:

It also says that Izzy skipped the video shoot for "You will be mine". Not only is the name of the song incorrect:facepalm:. (You could be mine apparently didn't ring any bells with the writer) but, if Izzy skipped the video shoot, then why does he appear on the official video?     

 

I believe the writer means Izzy missed the part where they all "meet" the Terminator at the end. The footage of them playing the song it was recorded during the Ritz '91 I think.

 

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Adding to this cool discussion about Izzy's motivations, I'd like to say we shouldn't forget Steven's comments. He said Izzy "wants to do it the right way or not at all". Everyone's free to interpret what that means but to me that has a way deeper meaning than just money. In my opinion, Izzy wanted the band to be functional again, he wanted to get AFD5 back, tour and write new music (and also have the money split in a fair way to his eyes). If Axl wanted to keep Frank, Richard and Dizzy, add Melissa and tour endlessly without writing a new song (and play CD stuff), it doesn't seem that hard to imagine Izzy not being into it. 

I could be completely wrong and maybe we'll see Izzy joining this thing we have now after getting a better offer, who knows. If that's what he wants, just give him his FP money! :P

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9 hours ago, Kris_1989 said:

I understand where you're coming from but I have to disagree. (Sorry! :()

You don't have to apologize, I am enjoying an interesting discussion! :)

10 hours ago, Kris_1989 said:

In the early 90's Izzy had plenty of opportunities to join bands that were close to GNR's size - even Aerosmith was rumored - but he turned them down to do the Juju Hounds. Which I'm sure didn't bring in a lot of dough. They probably only broke even in the end. Later on there's VR, he was there before Dave Kushner and could of easily been a founding member of that band. Everyone knew VR was going to make a buttload of cash because of the lineup but he still walked away from it all

I would love to read about all the established bands that Izzy was invited to join and turned down. I have never read that.  And no I don't think that Izzy has ever been involved in any other music project to make money. He makes his money solely from GNR. That was my point.  And again let me reiterate that I'm not suggesting that Izzy is especially money hungry (obviously the guy lives modestly in comparison to say, Axl). I'm just trying to contradict this idea that, "Izzy isn't in it for the money."  Especially when Izzy himself has said that, you know, he'd be in it for the money.  

10 hours ago, Kris_1989 said:

Also, his divorce (I think?) was in 2000 or 2001?

The 5 year gap between the divorce and his appearances was kind of what I was talking about. Several years of lawyers fees and alimony payments will deplete the old bank account, but this is coming from the daughter of a divorce lawyer, so I am a bit over sensitive to that topic. Divorce is expensive, even for people with little money. Some people stayed married because they can't afford to get divorced. And Izzy isn't Slash. Izzy has essentially been retired for 25 years- except for his royalty checks. A little bounce couldn't have hurt. Money is relative. Everyone has a line they like to float above.

10 hours ago, Kris_1989 said:

Guns+N+Roses+2012.jpg

Plus, wouldn't you want a hefty fee to appear on a stage with this lot? I know I would. :P Can't blame him for that

You can apologize to me for posting that, come on.

10 hours ago, Kris_1989 said:

I don't doubt that Izzy cares about the money to an extent but I don't think it's any more so than an average person. If anything I think he was aware that GNR was an easy target for leeches and wanted to make sure his ducks were in a row before he got ripped off. Pretty smart of him to keep an eye on it actually, the amount of musicians that got screwed by their management/record labels in the 80s is insane.

I agree. 

10 hours ago, Kris_1989 said:

On top of that... even right now at 55, with the right management, Izzy could do well on his own or join another band. 55 isn't that old you guys, some of you act like he's got one foot in the grave already. Izzy's still got a good chunk of his life ahead of him. :lol: Look at the Stones & Paul McCartney, they're in their 70s and still killing it and having a blast.

55 isn't that old, and Izzy'smusic is wonderful, but his money making years are behind him...unless he joins his old band or another band of equal caliber. Slash, Duff and Axl realized this about their solo outfits too, hence the reuinion. And all three of them have much higher profiles. Ten years ago, Izzy was shopping his stuff around- he talked about giving his tapes to John Kalodner who didn't hear any hits. Rock n' Roll barely sells now, and up and coming bands... it's a young man's game. And 55 isn't that young either.

9 hours ago, Archtop said:

Yes and this is exactly where we lose Izzy in my opinon, I get the impression he wants to talk to his old band mates across a table, thrash out how to do a reunion, split the profits and then take it to the managers and lawyers and let them sort out all the legal shit. All we have learnt so far regarding reunion negotiations is that there were non, it was decided by Axl, Slash and Duff. It was later Izzy and Steven were approached, there may have been rumblings but why hire a legal team and management until it's really looks likley to go ahead and he is invited to join? Who knows if he had representation or not, but I bet when they spoke to Izzy, they had already lost him and not even the money could bring him on board.

If that's true it would just be so adorably naive. Izzy has had 30+ years of history with these guys. They have always been a mess. He knows that better than anyone. That he would think that putting Slash and Axl ( and Adler! ADLER!) across the table from each other and saying, "okay what are your demands?" is just... I can't believe anyone in their right minds would have thought that would go well. Least of all, Izzy. I also find it hard to believe that Izzy, who still gets royalties from GNR INC, who talks to Axl and Slash and was in the studio with Duff several times in 2015- the last being in December of 2015 weeks before Coachella was announced, just didn't know about the reunion. Why get representation? Because it's the responsible thing to do if you want to be involved with something like this. Not even the money could bring him on board? According to his own words in his own tweet, money could have brought him on board.

9 hours ago, Archtop said:

Integrity to me means, standing up for what you believe in and staying true to ones self, I think Izzy was not happy with an offer he was made so he stayed true to what he believed, by not getting involved. The tour is a cash grab as most tours are, you point out that this the only way muscians can really make money these days, Axl, Slash and Duff are here to make money and I don't begrudge them that at all,  I also would not begrudge Izzy or see him as a putz if he did decide to join them, I would assume he negotiated terms that work for him.

Well put.

9 hours ago, Archtop said:

I get that this post makes me somewhat look like an Izzy nutswinger?

Yes, yes you are a nutswinger. And I love that about you.

4 hours ago, BorderlineCrazy said:

Adding to this cool discussion about Izzy's motivations, I'd like to say we shouldn't forget Steven's comments. He said Izzy "wants to do it the right way or not at all". Everyone's free to interpret what that means but to me that has a way deeper meaning than just money. In my opinion, Izzy wanted the band to be functional again, he wanted to get AFD5 back, tour and write new music (and also have the money split in a fair way to his eyes). If Axl wanted to keep Frank, Richard and Dizzy, add Melissa and tour endlessly without writing a new song (and play CD stuff), it doesn't seem that hard to imagine Izzy not being int

Couldn't Izzy himself have Tweeted "I wanted to do it a different way?" Or, "I would have been in it if it had been the classic 5?" He didn't. He brought up the money. 

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On 21-4-2017 at 11:35 PM, Blackstar said:

@Kris_1989

Feb. 21 1993:

 

 

Am I the only one who thinks it’s weird they show a picture of his house, considering he was still living there at that time. Even printing his address, ok not the house number but still...

Edited by Irwi
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9 hours ago, beautifulanddamned said:

You can apologize to me for posting that, come on.

I'm so so sorry. Is this better? :awesomeface:

C-Eg4ByU0AEmTYQ.jpg

2 hours ago, Irwi said:

Am I the only one who thinks it’s weird they show a picture of his house, considering he was still living there at that time. Even printing his address, ok not the house number but still...

I thought the same thing. But it is a small town newspaper & the interview was pre-internet so maybe they just didn't think it was that big of a issue at the time? Still a bit creepy IMO.

1 hour ago, annabanana said:

What exactly is the avocado incident? 

On 3/31/2017 at 5:59 AM, SerenityScorp said:

 

3) Izzy tweeted to Rick Nielsen that he’d bought a computer, opened a Twitter account, and had quit avocado farming. Now deleted, but it lead to some funny fanart on social media:

CcDhxq6UUAA4IM9.jpg
 

CcFuIyAWIAQ7BqK.jpg"

 

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On 22/4/2017 at 10:32 AM, beautifulanddamned said:

There's nothing wrong with wanting to be paid well for your work. Izzy's solo music is basically hobby music that he is kind enough to share with fans. 

Agreed. He got mad when his music was on youtube for illegal downloading so yes, he cares about money and it's understandable.

Quote

Am I the only one who thinks it’s weird they show a picture of his house, considering he was still living there at that time. Even printing his address, ok not the house number but still...

And people still ask why is he so  reclusive:facepalm: Wouldn't you be too if your private info was posted all over the newspaper/internet? 

Edited by Jane M.
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