Zurimor

Chinese Democracy

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I just noticed that people are now, that Guns n' Roses are touring with almost the original lineup again, finally giving credit to the Chinese Democracy album. You now can read many appreciative comments on youtube while all the time before there was mostly hate. Makes me a bit sad.
I always liked that album.
All the years nothing than how bad that album is and now...almost completely changed. It's good that album gets the credit it deserves, however, Axl clearly had a vision years ago when his band members probably weren't ready for it.
What I wonder is, why is that?
Is that because people regardeded Axl as the one who didn't want to continue old Gn'R stuff and now that they're together again it's easier to appreciate his work? Any ideas?
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I love it. Could be that the tour getting people back into GNR again. I never quit being a fan, but some people did, at least for a while :shrugs:

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13 minutes ago, BlueJean Baby said:

I love it. Could be that the tour getting people back into GNR again. I never quit being a fan, but some people did, at least for a while :shrugs:

I always loved their music, listened to it every now and then during the years inbetween, they made so many great songs.

It's a shame anyway that Chinese Democracy good ignored or hated all the time, it's a good album. There was a Time is one of the best songs they ever made imo. I'm sure if any other band released it, reactions would've been way diiferent.

Edited by Zurimor

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It's all about Slash, remove him from the equation and everything will go back as before.

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12 minutes ago, Jane M. said:

It's all about Slash, remove him from the equation and everything will go back as before.

I believe that, too. Like "if Slash is playing that, it can't be that bad". :D Shouldn't music be about music and nothing but music? ;)

Edited by Zurimor

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I enjoy CD more than any other GNR member solo album. On one side i hope Axl release more album during the Nu era, but on the other side that would be mean the Nu band will be successful and will make Axl more big headed and further hinder any reunion chance.

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14 minutes ago, Gordon Comstock said:

I'm in the 1% of fans that still want to hear CD II with Buckethead and Robin. :P

Same here! It'd be better if Axl dug up their raw takes off the rhythm section, rather than taking the 1st "verse section" of a song and copy and pasting it to the second verse

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11 minutes ago, StrangerInThisTown said:

Axl is still the guy who was responsible for robbing the world of one of the worlds greatest bands, and then he continued to sell the world his product as "Guns N Roses" when it really to fans was an Axl rose solo effort with backing musicians. It was never really accepted by the real Guns fans. We will never get those 20 years back, when everyone was relatively young. Better late than never anyway, and I'm glad he managed to make this happen now.

Err, he was the only member left of the band at that time, it's not he who quitted, but everyone else except him left the band. So he pretty much was Guns n' Roses.

Imho it was absolutely legitimate to keep the name for his band.

Edited by Zurimor

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1 minute ago, StrangerInThisTown said:

Axl is still the guy who was responsible for robbing the world of one of the worlds greatest bands, 

lol .I can't believe there are still people who blame solely Axl for the "break up". The band was falling apart for a number of reasons and Axl was not one of them. Maybe the only man who took music so seriously in this band.

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8 minutes ago, Natalia92 said:

lol .I can't believe there are still people who blame solely Axl for the "break up". The band was falling apart for a number of reasons and Axl was not one of them. Maybe the only man who took music so seriously in this band.

Thank you!!! 

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9 minutes ago, Natalia92 said:

lol .I can't believe there are still people who blame solely Axl for the "break up". The band was falling apart for a number of reasons and Axl was not one of them. Maybe the only man who took music so seriously in this band.

I don't agree Axl is the sole reason for the band breaking up in the 90s, but claiming he had no part in it whatsoever doesn't seem quite fair either. I don't think he was the only member taking the music seriously either.

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2 minutes ago, sanity_lost said:

Yep only us fake fans like CD. Its why we like to hang out on my(fake)gnrforum. 

One day we will stumble upon the golden book of laws one must follow to be considered a "real" fan and fall in line as only a "real" fan can. Until then we will just have to appreciate gnr as only poor deluded fake fans can.

You misunderstood. Real guns as in real GNR. Not "real" fans.

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26 minutes ago, Natalia92 said:

lol .I can't believe there are still people who blame solely Axl for the "break up". The band was falling apart for a number of reasons and Axl was not one of them. Maybe the only man who took music so seriously in this band.

Ridiculous. You can continue to view the world through "rose" colored glasses and ignore all the legitimate reasons I've listed above. I'm not here to change your mind, just stating what happened. If you doubt any of the reasons I've posted above, feel free to point them out. Saying Axl was not one of the reasons the band fell apart is..worse than what some people like Night Drive Loneliness are spewing around here. Or maybe I'm just delusional and CD is really better than AFD?

Oh boy..

Edited by StrangerInThisTown

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12 minutes ago, Zurimor said:

Err, he was the only member left of the band at that time, it's not he who quitted, but everyone else except him left the band. So he pretty much was Guns n' Roses.

Imho it was absolutely legitimate to keep the name for his band.

No. He is AXL ROSE, not GUNS N' ROSES. If 4 out of 5 guys leave the band, then the band it's DEAD. You can keep the brand all you want and pretend nothing happened but it's absurd.

Hiring a bunch of employees won't "keep the band alive" (even if you hire super talented people like Buckethead) because the musical direction will change, the sound will change, the image will change, the chemistry will change.... so it's not the same fn' band!! Now if you think two COMPLETELY DIFFERENT BANDS can't have the same name, good for you. It doesn't make any sense to me.

Releasing Chinese Democracy as GNR was the stupidest thing Axl's ever done IMO. It was way too cruel to most of the fans and also it was a terrible thing for the album itself as it made many fans go "fuck you, this isn't Guns N' Roses" and not give the album a chance (which is a shame IMO as I think the album is fn' great).

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18 minutes ago, BorderlineCrazy said:

No. He is AXL ROSE, not GUNS N' ROSES. If 4 out of 5 guys leave the band, then the band it's DEAD. You can keep the brand all you want and pretend nothing happened but it's absurd.

Hiring a bunch of employees won't "keep the band alive" (even if you hire super talented people like Buckethead) because the musical direction will change, the sound will change, the image will change, the chemistry will change.... so it's not the same fn' band!! Now if you think two COMPLETELY DIFFERENT BANDS can't have the same name, good for you. It doesn't make any sense to me.

Releasing Chinese Democracy as GNR was the stupidest thing Axl's ever done IMO. It was way too cruel to most of the fans and also it was a terrible thing for the album itself as it made many fans go "fuck you, this isn't Guns N' Roses" and not give the album a chance (which is a shame IMO as I think the album is fn' great).

Well, let me put it this way, when everyone leaves a band and the last member still in it wants to continue it, it's up to him whether he wants to change the name or not. Axl decided not to, which is legit.

Maybe not a smart move, but you can't blame him for that, it was his good right to do so.

Your second point, bands often change their style without changing band members, just compare early Pink Floyd to later Pink Floyd, completely different sound and style, but still the same name.

Well, and Marillion changed almost their whole lineup, still call themselves Marillion.

Edited by Zurimor

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1 hour ago, Gordon Comstock said:

I've always liked Chinese. If Slash playing the songs is what it took for more people to give it a chance, well, that's pretty lame, but at least more people are giving it a chance. I'm in the 1% of fans that still want to hear CD II with Buckethead and Robin. :P

 

As much as I like the album though, I kinda get the hate. Axl fucked up the perception of the band and the album; waiting too long to release it, the line-up changes, the tinkering, no follow up, the botched artwork, etc.

This is a very accurate post.

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57 minutes ago, StrangerInThisTown said:

He was responsible for making everyone leave, except for Steven. I recommend you read Slashs book and the Chinese Whispers. Both Slash and Duff didn't want to quit being in GNR but Axl was responsible for it in the end. He made them sign over the name against their will. He fired Gilby for no reason, and pushed Paul Huge into Guns when he didn't deserve to be there. Izzy decided to quit after Axls behaviour almost caused another riot in Germany. A year after Slash Duff left because he was waiting for Slash to return but knew that was not gonna happen, and the UYI band which I still considered Guns was no more.

Although most of the things you say seem to be true, I don't take what any of the guys in the band has said years after the events as a gospel. To me the interviews they did at the time of the events (or shortly after) are more reliable sources than their books or late interviews. Regarding Gilby for example, I remember Slash saying in an interview that Axl was pressuring him to fire Gilby and he was declining, but he gave in when Gilby didn't show up to a rehearsal (it happened to be one of the periods when Axl was showing up).

37 minutes ago, BorderlineCrazy said:

No. He is AXL ROSE, not GUNS N' ROSES. If 4 out of 5 guys leave the band, then the band it's DEAD. You can keep the brand all you want and pretend nothing happened but it's absurd.

Hiring a bunch of employees won't "keep the band alive" (even if you hire super talented people like Buckethead) because the musical direction will change, the sound will change, the image will change, the chemistry will change.... so it's not the same fn' band!! Now if you think two COMPLETELY DIFFERENT BANDS can't have the same name, good for you. It doesn't make any sense to me.

Releasing Chinese Democracy as GNR was the stupidest thing Axl's ever done IMO. It was way too cruel to most of the fans and also it was a terrible thing for the album itself as it made many fans go "fuck you, this isn't Guns N' Roses" and not give the album a chance (which is a shame IMO as I think the album is fn' great).

I generally agree. Keeping the name didn't help Axl in the long run and more fans would have given CD a fair chance had it been released under another name (of course the delay was a big factor too).

To me the presence of original members weighs more for the "legitimacy" of a band than the sound (after all, half of the Illusions didn't sound like AFD). I 'd have welcomed an evolution of the band's sound and even a change of direction, if the outcome had been good and most of the original members had been involved.

Edited by Blackstar

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Can't believe we're going to end 2016 soon and we're still debating who is to blame for the breakup of the band :lol:

Also I seem to recall the Chinese Democracy tunes getting praised when they were first heard live in 2001, and praised again when studio demos leaked. Radio stations were wanting to play the leaks and Guns or their managers/lawyers/label issued cease-and-desist orders. Classic Rock magazine declared Chinese Democracy to be their "Album of the Year" and it hadn't even been released lol.

When it finally dropped in 2008 I think a lot of people were probably just underwhelmed because they'd heard the majority of it through leaks and wondered what all the hype and delays were about.

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