Chinese Democracy

[Rovim]

43 minutes ago, KiraMPD said:

Ya know, with all this talk about what is or isn't on Axl's hard drive... there is a way to answer that for sure. Surprised that no one has attempted it yet...?

 

 

Everyone chips in to hire Russian hackers? Axl shows no mercy when it comes to leakers. Might be too risky and security is probably tight as hell since the Skwerl incident.

Edited January 3, 2017 by Rovim

[Zurimor]

5 minutes ago, Rovim said:

Collectively chip in to hire Russian hackers? Axl shows no mercy when it comes to leakers. Might be too risky and security is probably tight as hell since the Skwerl incident.

I bet the computer he uses for his music stuff is never, absolutely never online.

Edited January 3, 2017 by Zurimor

[DieselDaisy]

8 hours ago, Rovim said:

But cricket seems to be the most boring. And I was being serious. At least it's not as boring as what seems to be the most boring game in the world. Basketball I can at least understand. Why someone invented that and why people will want to play it or watch that shit.

What is the purpose...nvm. Disregard that.

An uninitiated preaching to an aficionado - or vice versa - is a fruitless task be that subject trainspotting, quantum physics or any sport in the book, but at least the sport of cricket is tangible and can be watched practically daily, the events of that day being discussed by thousands worldwide, whereas Chinese Democracy 2 (or the 'trilogy' or whatever Axl statement you care to base the composition of this will o' the wisp album upon) is about as tangible as the Loch Ness Monster and the Abominable Snowman's offspring.

[AxlRoseCDII]

10 hours ago, Rovim said:

See... I have a problem with that statement. How do you know that? why would Axl fuel expectations with what he said in the China exchange interview? he said the exact opposite of what you're saying. Said the Guns catalog is very small, it seems to bother him. He said he would like to release more Guns music.

You jump to conclusions more than I do. I just think Axl won't release a Guns album that is not good enough or is not relevant to him as an artist anymore. You choose to believe he doesn't release anything cause he's not interested anymore.

Why would he also fuel expectations by teasing Chinese Democracy for a decade and also spend another 8 years teasing it's supposed sequels? Axl is a genius, truly a brilliant and talented man. But he has a problem where he simply can't release music. If it was a priority to him, we would've seen at least 4 or 5 albums by this point. You can argue he wants to take his time, but you cant argue that every day during 93-2000, 2003-2005, 2008-2009 and in 2015 he was working on new music. You can't. And especially not during 2011-2014.

Its not a priority to him. I'm not an Axl hater, I have supported all line ups bar the 09-14 line up and believe he is the greatest frontman of all time. But new music isn't something he does.

[Towelie]

I think any GNR fan believing in the existence of Chinese Democracy II in 2017 is akin to a 30 year old manchild who still believes in Santa. It was endearing to a point, but as more years pass by, it starts to become a bit disturbing.

[Towelie]

1 minute ago, Wagszilla said:

I do blame Axl for this and that although I do wonder how much of it has to do with the record company, the fact that both Robin and Buckethead quit the band, and how CD was received. These aren't immaterial. 

In what sense? I mean, it tangibly exists in some form. 

The most pressing question I can think of "is it any good"?

That said, it doesn't exist in the traditional sense until it's released. Axl has proved to be unreliable in these matters and it's best not to expect it.

There's also the question of viability. If a golden moment has passed. Or if Axl/the record company is willing to release it under a different banner. 

How do we know it exists? For all we know, it could just be four or five half-finished songs, each written and performed by a group of musicians who haven't been in the band for over a decade. I'm sure Slash and Duff are hardly gagging to get their mits on Axl's decade-old sloppy seconds. Chinese Democracy 1 just about scraped through and managed to be completely irrelevant by the time it was released, thanks to Axl driving away all the talented people who helped him create the record. If you think Axl is gonna put out another album of old songs written with Buckethead, Brain and Robin Finck then you are truly delusional.

[Free Bird]

51 minutes ago, Wagszilla said:

Dozens of producers, executives, band members, managers, and more confirming as much for the past 20 years.

The only truly delusional thing would be to think that the absurd number of people who worked on the project were either lying or only labored to make 14 songs. 

The 30 song number has been publicly mentioned time and time again from Axl to Tommy to Brain. Beta mentioned 48 songs. Prior management mentioned 41 songs. 

 

Nobody denied there songs somewhere. Are these completed songs? I don't think so. Even if people mention 2000 songs, they're obviously not ready to release. If they were they had been already released. There is a reason why Axl don't release anything. That's because he doesn't feel the songs are completed. He seems not to be satisfied with them. 

I hope he buries them, after he saw CD fail. He has the chance now to pic his best ideas or best songs and to work with Slash and Duff on them, to work on their best stuff and to create new music with both.

[Free Bird]

3 minutes ago, Wagszilla said:

I said a couple posts back that "finished" and "mixed" are relative terms. It's possible remaining work needs to be done.

And that's pretty much what you and Apollo are implying. 

Whereas people in the band have publicly admitted that shit was done and they were forced by the record company to re-record and other nonsense for songs that had been done for the better part of the decade.

Axl wanted to release the Sean Beavan album in 1999/2000 but it was rejected by the record company. Axl has his issues but of course he will get the blame regardless of what the truth is because people like to carry grudges around like it's their cross to bear. 

Did Axl ever confirm that? I always thought this is a rumor. And often some people here make fakts out of rumors.

[DieselDaisy]

2 hours ago, Wagszilla said:

The 30 song number has been publicly mentioned time and time again from Axl to Tommy to Brain. Beta mentioned 48 songs. Prior management mentioned 41 songs. 

I think every multiple between 30 and 100 was mentioned at one time in the interviews during the cd era.

[Hollywood Zombie]

I was the only loser who was excited when they played Chinese, Better and sorry. Shoulda saw the look on People when I was holy fuck they are playing Sorry.  Haha I would totally mosh if they played Shacklers revenge and slash changed that stupid fuckin solo. 

Edited January 4, 2017 by Hollywood Zombie

[Silent Jay]

28 minutes ago, Hollywood Zombie said:

I was the only loser who was excited when they played Chinese, Better and sorry. Shoulda saw the look on People when I was holy fuck they are playing Sorry.  Haha I would totally mosh if they played Shacklers revenge and slash changed that stupid fuckin solo. 

Don't worry it means you know you're shit. I remember one time, I was waiting during one show in 2012, I saw this guy who was cracking Shackler's Revenge on his phone and you already know he's the biggest fan of them all. And in the middle of nowhere during the show the band decided to play that song and he was having the time of his life. I don't mind because it's killer live. One of the thing when I go see a GN'R or AC/DC show, I can't have fun during Sweet Child or You Shook Me All Night Long, primarily because I hate people, and I hate to see them having so much fun just for the classics, I just can't.

I think the guitar solo manipulated by Axl and Caram was to show the psychotic mind of the Shackler I'm sure there is a metaphor somewhere.

 

[AxlRoseCDII]

8 hours ago, Wagszilla said:

I do blame Axl for this and that although I do wonder how much of it has to do with the record company, the fact that both Robin and Buckethead quit the band, and how CD was received. These aren't immaterial. 

Buckethead for sure quit because of Axl and his inability to compete anything. Robin isn't confirmed for those same reasons but it is implied he left because of Axl. I understand the hurdles he went through, but nearly a decade after if it's initial reveal? New music just isn't important to Axl anymore. It doesn't matter about "record company this"- if it was a true problem for the man he would have found other ways to share it. He's rich and I'm sure there's tons of companies who would want to assist Axl with new material. 

[Rovim]

18 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

An uninitiated preaching to an aficionado - or vice versa - is a fruitless task be that subject trainspotting, quantum physics or any sport in the book, but at least the sport of cricket is tangible and can be watched practically daily, the events of that day being discussed by thousands worldwide, whereas Chinese Democracy 2 (or the 'trilogy' or whatever Axl statement you care to base the composition of this will o' the wisp album upon) is about as tangible as the Loch Ness Monster and the Abominable Snowman's offspring.

I've missed you Daisy. Cricket is so boring though. I want to stay uninitiated. Axl has enough material for 3 albums. My guess is Slash and Duff will play on many tunes and Axl will decide what is good enough and will add fresh material. The only question is: will he ever actually release another Guns album? Remains to be seen. And please... don't talk about sports in a Chinese Democracy thread. It's boring. Especially cricket/county cricket.

Edited January 4, 2017 by Rovim

[DieselDaisy]

11 hours ago, Rovim said:

I've missed you Daisy. Cricket is so boring though. I want to stay uninitiated. Axl has enough material for 3 albums. My guess is Slash and Duff will play on many tunes and Axl will decide what is good enough and will add fresh material. The only question is: will he ever actually release another Guns album? Remains to be seen. And please... don't talk about sports in a Chinese Democracy thread. It's boring. Especially cricket/county cricket.

Don't talk about Chinese Democracy (1 or 2) in a Chinese Democracy thread. It is boring.

[Rovim]

26 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Don't talk about Chinese Democracy (1 or 2) in a Chinese Democracy thread. It is boring.

Poor. Very poor reply. In my opinion of course. You don't see me posting on cricket threads saying how boring cricket is lol. Your joke makes no sense. Probably just rusty, I'll give you a couple more days to gather momentum.

On topic: I think Axl, Slash, Duff, and the rest are just gonna tour for another year at least and after that Axl will perhaps take a break and gain some weight. Then he will hopefully start writing again if he's not writing already and record some new stuff and in a few years if everything goes according to plans, we might get lucky and a Guns album will be released. It won't be totally Chinese, but Axl will probably use some of the material in his hard drive, stuff Slash and Duff will add to.

Edited January 4, 2017 by Rovim

[DieselDaisy]

Just now, Rovim said:

Poor. Very poor reply. In my opinion of course. You don't see me posting on cricket threads saying how boring cricket is lol. Your joke makes no sense. Probably just rusty, I'll give you a couple more days to gather momentum.

On topic: I think Axl, Slash, Duff, and the rest are just gonna tour for another year at least and after that Axl will perhaps take a break and gain some weight. Then he will hopefully start writing again and in a few years if everything goes according to plans, we might get lucky and a Guns album will be released. It won't be totally Chinese, but Axl will probably use some of the material in his hard drive, stuff Slash and Duff will add to.

By all means talk about the original album if you must but what is there possible to say about Chinese Democracy 2?

- We've never heard any of it; you cannot discuss 'Atlas Shrugged', as you and Wasted do, as we've never heard the bloody thing

- If it does exist - and that is a big if - we never will (hear it) because Axl will never release it as Axl doesn't release music

That is it in a nutshell. We cannot progress, conversationally, from those two facts: we've never heard it and we never will.

[Rovim]

8 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

By all means talk about the original album if you must but what is there possible to say about Chinese Democracy 2?

- We've never heard any of it; you cannot discuss 'Atlas Shrugged', as you and Wasted do, as we've never heard the bloody thing

- If it does exist - and that is a big if - we never will (hear it) because Axl will never release it as Axl doesn't release music

That is it in a nutshell. We cannot progress, conversationally, from those two facts: we've never heard it and we never will.

I have never, not once, talked about how Atlas Shrugged sounded like or any other unreleased CD ll tune. Never. I have only mentioned how other people who have heard unreleased tunes described the music and even that was rarely mentioned by me.

We know for a fact it exists. Axl played some unreleased material to Slash and Duff, and Andy Wallace mixed 30 tunes, so at least 16 tunes must exist. These are facts and cannot be disputed. Nevermind countless others who were actually or are still in the band including Axl have said many tunes exist. Others have even talked about the quality of the songs and their favorites such as Beltrami and Josh Freese.

What we cannot do is talk about it like we know for a fact we will never hear these songs cause we can't tell the future.

Edited January 4, 2017 by Rovim

[BorderlineCrazy]

Axl must have written Dead Horse inspired by this thread, it's truly mindblowing. Speculating can be fun but there's got to be a limit. Writing the very same thing day after day after day doesn't make much sense IMO, it doesn't turn speculation into facts or anything. 

So far there is no such thing as "Chinese Democracy 2" released and that's all that matters. I do believe Axl has enough songs to release another album but that's not a fact and I could be wrong. I have no idea why Axl hasn't released another album after CD (and neither do any of you) and I don't care either. I hope he will do a proper new album with Slash and Duff but so far there's absolutely no reason to assure he will. Whatever he says is completely irrelevant (let alone what Richard Fortus says) as he either lies or changes his mind pretty often. Whatever he said at the China Exchange means nothing until there's something tangible as it would have meant nothing if he said "not in this lifetime" about a new album.

Some people love making up this shit about how Axl's mind works and how he won't release anything until he feels it's ready, yet the same people constantly talks about how Axl turned CD to the label 25 different times and it was rejected because "it wasn't good enough" so these two things are completely contradictory.

Truth is we have no idea what's on Axl's mind, what his intentions and motivations are and maybe neither does him (or maybe he does and just won't tell us). Anything we might say about why/how Axl does things is nothing but fairytales we write to pass the time.

[Zurimor]

2 hours ago, BorderlineCrazy said:

Some people love making up this shit about how Axl's mind works and how he won't release anything until he feels it's ready, yet the same people constantly talks about how Axl turned CD to the label 25 different times and it was rejected because "it wasn't good enough" so these two things are completely contradictory.

 

I wonder why he didn't release Chinese Democracy on his own label then, should've beend easy to found one for him and he could've done exactly what he wanted without any interference.

[Free Bird]

26 minutes ago, Zurimor said:

I wonder why he didn't release Chinese Democracy on his own label then, should've beend easy to found one for him and he could've done exactly what he wanted without any interference.

Maybe due to legal issues with the record label. Not that I believe that ever happened.

[wasted]

28 minutes ago, Zurimor said:

I wonder why he didn't release Chinese Democracy on his own label then, should've beend easy to found one for him and he could've done exactly what he wanted without any interference.

I think the rec company had a claim to what they paid for. 

But would be nothing stopping Axl writing and recording new stuff on another label. Like Slash or Izzy do. But I doubt it would be like UYI or CD budget wise. 

Maybe it's not all about just releasing music but being the kind of band you want to be too. Izzy releases albums but doesn't play arenas or Rock in Rio. 

 

[DieselDaisy]

4 hours ago, Rovim said:

I have never, not once, talked about how Atlas Shrugged sounded like or any other unreleased CD ll tune. Never. I have only mentioned how other people who have heard unreleased tunes described the music and even that was rarely mentioned by me.

We know for a fact it exists. Axl played some unreleased material to Slash and Duff, and Andy Wallace mixed 30 tunes, so at least 16 tunes must exist. These are facts and cannot be disputed. Nevermind countless others who were actually or are still in the band including Axl have said many tunes exist. Others have even talked about the quality of the songs and their favorites such as Beltrami and Josh Freese.

What we cannot do is talk about it like we know for a fact we will never hear these songs cause we can't tell the future.

Maybe I'm fudging you with Wasted and his tracklists for Chinese 2,

1/ The General

2/ Atlas

3/ Shuffle It All with Buckethead

etc etc

[wasted]

I was probably paraphrasing Axl, Zutaut or Baz. 

 

[Jane M.]

20 minutes ago, wasted said:

I think the rec company had a claim to what they paid for. 

But would be nothing stopping Axl writing and recording new stuff on another label. Like Slash or Izzy do. But I doubt it would be like UYI or CD budget wise. 

Maybe it's not all about just releasing music but being the kind of band you want to be too. Izzy releases albums but doesn't play arenas or Rock in Rio. 

 

Bingo!

[Blackstar]

2 hours ago, Zurimor said:

I wonder why he didn't release Chinese Democracy on his own label then, should've beend easy to found one for him and he could've done exactly what he wanted without any interference.

This should have been done as early as the time when the UYI era contract with the label expired (probably it was after the release of TSI). They had the money to do it, but instead they renegotiated the contract and got a renewed multi-million dollar deal with Geffen (I guess Axl saw it as the best option at the time). In the meantime David Geffen sold the label to Interscope, but Axl was still bound by the contract to release (at least) an album, so he couldn't just take the material and leave; the only thing that he could have theoretically done, was to pay the label back for the money they had put for the album.

The details of the deal are not known, so we don't know if it was for more than one album or if there were terms about possible unreleased stuff. Maybe the label has partial ownership of the rights of any material written and recorded during the CD era (the "vault"), but if it was an one album deal and Axl didn't owe them another album after the release of CD, he could have written and released new stuff under another label or made it a self release. The days of arenas and Rock in Rio had passed anyway post 2011, so he wouldn't have anything to lose in that regard. And it wouldn't have to be an album as overproduced as CD (that would have made a self release impossible). It could be an acoustic or stripped down piano album, but it seems that Axl isn't interested in doing something like this.

Edited January 5, 2017 by Blackstar