What Are You Listening To 2017

[Len Cnut]

Quote

Rakim is truly one of the best, but he never had the message

You might wanna think long and hard about that statement again.

Quote

 

The Beatles and Jimi had it all, Rakim is not comparable to me if we're talking importance.

I guess he was still super important for rap, just not quite reached the heights of The Beatles or Jimi. 

 

Of course not in terms of sales or popularity but we're talking about importance to the evolution of the genre here.

Quote

2pac never had a great flow as an mc but that is less important as Rakim's career proved.

How do you work that out?

[J Dog]

4 minutes ago, Rovim said:

Rakim is truly one of the best, but he never had the message. Not as much to say as 2pac. But he is supremely talented. The Beatles and Jimi had it all, Rakim is not comparable to me if we're talking importance.

I guess he was still super important for rap, just not quite reached the heights of The Beatles or Jimi. Eminem and Nas are on a comparable level I feel on paper but Eminem is just a more exciting personality and had an appeal that Nas never had. Eminem is also just a better mc. Nas brought his own special thing but Eminem is the one sitting on the throne.

Eminem never had the message 2pac had. That goes beyond his talents, 2pac never had a great flow as an mc but that is less important as Rakim's career proved.

I don't know if I mean as important as Beatles or Jimi as far as overall goes. But in rap he just took the craft to that next step, as far as writing and skill go. Much like Beatles and Hendrix did with rock.

[Rovim]

31 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

You might wanna think long and hard about that statement again.

Of course not in terms of sales or popularity but we're talking about importance to the evolution of the genre here.

How do you work that out?

I thought long and hard, I'm not really in the minority there either. I wasn't talking about sales, nor was I denying his importance to the genre or it's evolution, it's just to me he never had as much to say as 2pac did.

2pac's flow is nothing special, that never bothered me at all though. Just not one of his gifts. It's good enough but he never really had a great flow if we're honest and not deaf.

Edited February 16, 2017 by Rovim

[Len Cnut]

Quote

I thought long and hard, I'm not really in the minority there.

I'm afraid you very much are, Rakim is one of the foremost social conscience rappers of hip hop, he reknowned for it, behind perhaps only KRS One in that regard.  In an era where almost every rapper had some kinda social message in their raps, Rakim was right in the forefront with all that five percenter stuff, black consciousness etc etc, in all my years of listening to hip hop I have never heard anyone level that accusation at Rakim.  He's that social conscience and message orientated that he dropped out of a contract with Aftermath and a potentially lucrative combining with Dr Dre because Dre wanted him to write gangsta shit and stuff centred around street shit and killing where, in Ra's own words, he was more interested in music that was related more to the effect that killing has on the person and the resultant effect that has on the community etc.

I agree with what you say about Pac but then he was never an out and out MC in that way.

[J Dog]

Pac had the best delivery of all time. He hit you in the chest with it. And he had songs where he showed off mc skill, Holla if ya Hear Me, Heartz of Men, Holla at Me, he's got all the multis and syllables and all that jazz. But we all know trying to win a contest wasn't what he was trying to do.

Edited February 16, 2017 by J Dog

[AxlsFavoriteRose]

you guys might wanna post a song here...js

 

[Len Cnut]

Just now, J Dog said:

Pac's had the best delivery of all time. He hit you in the chest with it. And he had songs where he showed off mc skill, Holla if ya Hear Me, Heartz of Men, Holla at Me, he's got all the multis and syllables and all that jazz. But we all know trying to win a contest wasn't what he was trying to do.

You Can't C Me also flows like a motherfucker.  And his verse on Got My Mind Made Up is deliberately and purposefully MCish, with all the metaphors etc, the whole point of that track was get the best east coast rhymers of the day in Red, Meth, Deck and best West Coast rhymers in Kurupt etc and then put Pac in with them to illustrate how he can hold his own, it's literally packed with metaphors, so mandatory my elevation my lyrics like orientation etc etc known to damage and highly flammable like gas stations, or put that ass in the dirt, you'd swear the bitch was planted' he's doing a deliberate thing there, those are MC metaphors.  Procrastination, ass waitin', gas stations, it's not typical tupac writing, he even changes pace in his verse in that flowey BIG type way where the song goes...oh whoose in control im activating your soul you know the way the games get controlled, yo...he changes his pacing up on that bit, its pure MC shit, braggin' about your flow etc 'my lyrics motivate the planet, it's similar to rhythm nation but thugged out'.  Even to the end of the verse where he's like bear witness to the dopest fuckin' rhyme I've wrote'.  If he wanted to write he could write but he kinda thought that whole MC shit was geeky and was more interested in being hardcore.  And to be honest, taken to it's nth degree that MC shit does end up getting a bit geeky, as much as it's fuckin' part of the culture, essential even at a certain point all the skills don't really take you up into that upper percentile unless your character and who you are really hits home with people.

[Rovim]

3 hours ago, Len Cnut said:

I'm afraid you very much are, Rakim is one of the foremost social conscience rappers of hip hop, he reknowned for it, behind perhaps only KRS One in that regard.  In an era where almost every rapper had some kinda social message in their raps, Rakim was right in the forefront with all that five percenter stuff, black consciousness etc etc, in all my years of listening to hip hop I have never heard anyone level that accusation at Rakim.  He's that social conscience and message orientated that he dropped out of a contract with Aftermath and a potentially lucrative combining with Dr Dre because Dre wanted him to write gangsta shit and stuff centred around street shit and killing where, in Ra's own words, he was more interested in music that was related more to the effect that killing has on the person and the resultant effect that has on the community etc.

I agree with what you say about Pac but then he was never an out and out MC in that way.

About Rakim, not that it proves anything, but I see evidence for it all the time, people that share my opinion that his lyrics weren't like the main thing about Rakim. Yeah, he talked about some issues but it didn't feel as varied or with the weight 2pac delivered it with if that makes sense. Like somehow his style didn't lend itself very well for what I consider the ideal in the genre.

This fella said it better and I've read other reviews by him (Steve Huey) "It isn't necessarily the substance of what he says that's helped him win numerous polls among rap fans in the know; the majority of his lyrics concern his own skills and his Islamic faith. But in terms of how he says it, Rakim is virtually unparalleled. His flow is smooth and liquid, inflected with jazz rhythms and carried off with an effortless cool that makes it sound as though he's not even breaking a sweat."

 

Edited February 16, 2017 by Rovim

[Rovim]

11 minutes ago, AxlsFavoriteRose said:

you guys might wanna post a song here...js

 

 

[J Dog]

Flow. Sick flow!

 

[Rovim]

Eminem - Rap God

[AxlsFavoriteRose]

8 minutes ago, J Dog said:

Flow. Sick flow!

 

niiiiiiiiice! 

getting stoked for my fri night date at their concert:

 

[J Dog]

12 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

You Can't C Me also flows like a motherfucker.  And his verse on Got My Mind Made Up is deliberately and purposefully MCish, with all the metaphors etc, the whole point of that track was get the best east coast rhymers of the day in Red, Meth, Deck and best West Coast rhymers in Kurupt etc and then put Pac in with them to illustrate how he can hold his own, it's literally packed with metaphors, so mandatory my elevation my lyrics like orientation etc etc known to damage and highly flammable like gas stations, or put that ass in the dirt, you'd swear the bitch was planted' he's doing a deliberate thing there, those are MC metaphors.  Procrastination, ass waitin', gas stations, it's not typical tupac writing, he even changes pace in his verse in that flowey BIG type way where the song goes...oh whoose in control im activating your soul you know the way the games get controlled, yo...he changes his pacing up on that bit, its pure MC shit, braggin' about your flow etc 'my lyrics motivate the planet, it's similar to rhythm nation but thugged out'.  Even to the end of the verse where he's like bear witness to the dopest fuckin' rhyme I've wrote'.  If he wanted to write he could write but he kinda thought that whole MC shit was geeky and was more interested in being hardcore.  And to be honest, taken to it's nth degree that MC shit does end up getting a bit geeky, as much as it's fuckin' part of the culture, essential even at a certain point all the skills don't really take you up into that upper percentile unless your character and who you are really hits home with people.

I fucking love his verse on Got My Mind Made Up." Taking off my coat, clearing my throat." Like you said he did a very deliberate thing there.

And one thing that never gets talked about with Pac is that he can rhyme over any type of beat. That's important. That's one reason rappers fall off, they only have one certain sound they're good with. Pac sounded good on anything.

2Pacalypse Now. Kind of underground, cheap production.

Srtictly 4 My N.I.G.G.A.Z. Half of it had more of that east coast golden age production. Sounded like Public Enemy or KRS One production. A lot of his early stuff had an east coast feel.

Me Against the World. More west coast but with a bluesy almost down south feel.

All Eyez on Me. Straight up west coast g-funk. Death Row biotch!

Makaveli. A lot had a mafia type feel. Some of it had a real raw sound.

Pac sounds perfect and right at home with all that different production. That is fucking  hard for a rapper to do. Even Eminem I'd say had a very distinct sound that suited him.

[Len Cnut]

30 minutes ago, Rovim said:

About Rakim, not that it proves anything, but I see evidence for it all the time, people that share my opinion that his lyrics weren't like the main thing about Rakim. Yeah, he talked about some issues but it didn't felt as varied or with the weight 2pac delivered it with if that makes sense. Like somehow his style didn't lend itself very well for what I consider the ideal in the genre.

This fella said it better and I've read other reviews by him (Steve Huey) "It isn't necessarily the substance of what he says that's helped him win numerous polls among rap fans in the know; the majority of his lyrics concern his own skills and his Islamic faith. But in terms of how he says it, Rakim is virtually unparalleled. His flow is smooth and liquid, inflected with jazz rhythms and carried off with an effortless cool that makes it sound as though he's not even breaking a sweat."

 

Perhaps i misunderstood, i thought you were saying he didn't have a message as opposed to the message isn't the most attractive aspect of him which is what Huey is saying.  You said 'he never had the message', Huey ain't saying that.

6 minutes ago, J Dog said:

I fucking love his verse on Got My Mind Made Up." Taking off my coat, clearing my throat." Like you said he did a very deliberate thing there.

And one thing that never gets talked about with Pac is that he can rhyme over any type of beat. That's important. That's one reason rappers fall off, they only have one certain sound they're good with. Pac sounded good on anything.

2Pacalypse Now. Kind of underground, cheap production.

Srtictly 4 My N.I.G.G.A.Z. Half of it had more of that east coast golden age production. Sounded like Public Enemy or KRS One production. A lot of his early stuff had an east coast feel.

Me Against the World. More west coast but with a bluesy almost down south feel.

All Eyez on Me. Straight up west coast g-funk. Death Row biotch!

Makaveli. A lot had a mafia type feel. Some of it had a real raw sound.

Pac sounds perfect and right at home with all that different production. That is fucking  hard for a rapper to do. Even Eminem I'd say had a very distinct sound that suited him.

It's amazing how great he sounds on that Strictly 4 My type production, thats an album that not enough people talk about.

[Len Cnut]

13 minutes ago, AxlsFavoriteRose said:

niiiiiiiiice! 

getting stoked for my fri night date at their concert:

 

She used to work in Malcolm McLarens Sex Shop, she was originally going to be in The Damned, even proposed the band name of Mike Hunts Honourable Discharge   I know a guy who runs a vegan restaurant who is good friends with her.  She almost got married to Johnny Rotten...and then Sid Vicious, on the same day.

Edited February 16, 2017 by Len Cnut

[AxlsFavoriteRose]

@Len Cnutshe is so cool! didn't half of The Pretenders die??

wait...she almost married Sid Vicious???? luckkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkky 

Edited February 16, 2017 by AxlsFavoriteRose

[Rovim]

9 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

Perhaps i misunderstood, i thought you were saying he didn't have a message as opposed to the message isn't the most attractive aspect of him which is what Huey is saying.  You said 'he never had the message', Huey ain't saying that.

Wrong wording on my part. I said he never had the message, but I meant that if you take all his catalog and compare it to 2pac's, for me it's not as powerful. The element that draws me to Rakim's music is more his delivery and flow, just the sheer talent when it comes to flow. I go back for more because how he says it just as much or more than what he's saying. With 2pac even if I don't want to listen, you kinda do.

 

Edited February 16, 2017 by Rovim

[J Dog]

Rakim just wasn't as in your face with it a Pac or Nas but it was there. You could say Nas and Biggie were just evolution from Rakim. Stuff like this is on the level.

 

Edited February 16, 2017 by J Dog

[AxlsFavoriteRose]

i love the way Axl speaks here *swoon*

 

[J Dog]

23 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

It's amazing how great he sounds on that Strictly 4 My type production, thats an album that not enough people talk about.

He almost sounds just as good as he does over the g-funk. It's a great album. Rebel music.

 

[AxlsFavoriteRose]

 

[Len Cnut]

1 hour ago, J Dog said:

Rakim just wasn't as in your face with it a Pac or Nas but it was there. You could say Nas and Biggie were just evolution from Rakim. Stuff like this is on the level.

 

NAs, if you think about it, is more or less a Ra' rip off.

[Len Cnut]

1 hour ago, J Dog said:

He almost sounds just as good as he does over the g-funk. It's a great album. Rebel music.

 

And 2Pacalypse is BRILLIANT.  The perfect balance between street and that Panther edge conciousness...but totally rooted in the today, its supremely political but supremely...am i saying this right?  It relates it right back to the street too, its really a brilliant piece of work, he was always on at Shock like gimme the good beats and I'll shine on em, lemme get this one, lemme get that one.

[Len Cnut]

1 hour ago, AxlsFavoriteRose said:

@Len Cnutshe is so cool! didn't half of The Pretenders die??

wait...she almost married Sid Vicious???? luckkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkky 

To get a passport, yeah, John was up for it and so was Sidney, it was a trade for some ridiculous price too, like a pound   Theres loads of pics about with her in Malcolms shop with her tits out n all sorts.

[AxlsFavoriteRose]

@Len Cnutso did she boink Sid or not??