Mendez Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 (edited) For me, its lowering the volume of the drums, and lowering volume of the guitars when a guitar solo starts , both of which seem to be used to compensate for overall dB volume, when in reality it lowers the perceived volume. The lowering of guitar volumes happens on AFD (although its not terribly bad). And the lowering of the drum volume happens on Sorry when the chorus comes in, and on Prostitute on the doublebass part during the solo section. Also happens on The Madness by Art of Anarchy when the chorus comes in. Anyone have any other irks with music production techniques? Does anyone actually like the things that I said? Edited January 2, 2017 by Mendez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoundOfAGun Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Compressing/limiting tracks to the point of distortion is one of my pet hates. Particularly prevalent in pop/hip hop genres, but it can happen to any style of music. Certain late 90s/early 2000s snares, not so much a production technique as an EQ choice; all snare top, no body, thin and papery. Urgh. The lowering of drum volume that you mentioned may be perceived due to the introduction of additional layers in the chorus. Got to agree on lowering guitars for solos though; you don't need a volume dip after a chorus/bridge as it can feel like a lull in the track. It isn't the end of the world to have a few dbs of dynamic range contributing to your RMS! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mendez Posted January 3, 2017 Author Share Posted January 3, 2017 (edited) 16 hours ago, SoundOfAGun said: Compressing/limiting tracks to the point of distortion is one of my pet hates. Particularly prevalent in pop/hip hop genres, but it can happen to any style of music. Certain late 90s/early 2000s snares, not so much a production technique as an EQ choice; all snare top, no body, thin and papery. Urgh. The lowering of drum volume that you mentioned may be perceived due to the introduction of additional layers in the chorus. Got to agree on lowering guitars for solos though; you don't need a volume dip after a chorus/bridge as it can feel like a lull in the track. It isn't the end of the world to have a few dbs of dynamic range contributing to your RMS! Any specific examples of the snares you're talking about? The sound of a snare is actually a point of interest I take in songs. As for the lowering of drum, it definitely happens. And its for the exact reason you say (at least I think): the introduction of additional layers. The top is Sorry, and the bottom is Prostitute. These are with low pass filters applied and the stereo merged into a mono track so that whatever is center panned (so that center panned things will be more prominent). The gap in Sorry (top) is where the chorus stops and the quiet solo section begins. The highlighted part of Prostitute (bottom) is the double bass section that goes into first 5 seconds of the verse. I'm sure that you know, but to others who don't, the spikes are the bass drum. So they either A) lowered the drum levels, or B) sucked all the life out of it by applying a slight high pass filter. (Which I doubt because the entire kit is audibly lower. The same thing happens in Art of Anarchy's stuff, which I expected better because IIRC, Bumblefoot produced it and I thought he would learn from the production of CD not to do shit like that, and being a music creator himself, I would have expected him not to brick wall the entire album. Its not incredibly horrible, but when you expect a section of a song to figuratively kick you in the fucking face with its awesomeness (kind of like in electronic music where the beat "drops"), its disappointing when instead a bad mix doesn't let the sound live up to its full potential. If it were up to me, everything would be mixed in the style of the MSFL remasters, where they have more dynamic range. Luckily GNR has MFSL remasters that I listen to more so over the regular versions. The AFD remaster isn't a big departure from the original mix, just a slightly louder Duff, and a slight more thump in the kick drum, but with the UYI's, I think they sound better. I also have another production critique of CD. On songs where Brain and Frank "share" drum parts (Better and TWAT), you would think they would match the EQ settings for the drums, but when I listen to it in my car which has a subwoofer), Franks low end is completely different and non existent compared to Brain's kit. Brain has a very full low end, and then when Frank comes in, his kick drum has hardly any low end. Of course thats up to personal preference, but when you have completely different kits in the same song, they should at least match everything up Edited January 3, 2017 by Mendez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoundOfAGun Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 3 hours ago, Mendez said: Any specific examples of the snares you're talking about? The sound of a snare is actually a point of interest I take in songs. As for the lowering of drum, it definitely happens. And its for the exact reason you say (at least I think): the introduction of additional layers. The top is Sorry, and the bottom is Prostitute. These are with low pass filters applied and the stereo merged into a mono track so that whatever is center panned (so that center panned things will be more prominent). The gap in Sorry (top) is where the chorus stops and the quiet solo section begins. The highlighted part of Prostitute (bottom) is the double bass section that goes into first 5 seconds of the verse. I'm sure that you know, but to others who don't, the spikes are the bass drum. So they either A) lowered the drum levels, or B) sucked all the life out of it by applying a slight high pass filter. (Which I doubt because the entire kit is audibly lower. The same thing happens in Art of Anarchy's stuff, which I expected better because IIRC, Bumblefoot produced it and I thought he would learn from the production of CD not to do shit like that, and being a music creator himself, I would have expected him not to brick wall the entire album. Its not incredibly horrible, but when you expect a section of a song to figuratively kick you in the fucking face with its awesomeness (kind of like in electronic music where the beat "drops"), its disappointing when instead a bad mix doesn't let the sound live up to its full potential. If it were up to me, everything would be mixed in the style of the MSFL remasters, where they have more dynamic range. Luckily GNR has MFSL remasters that I listen to more so over the regular versions. The AFD remaster isn't a big departure from the original mix, just a slightly louder Duff, and a slight more thump in the kick drum, but with the UYI's, I think they sound better. I also have another production critique of CD. On songs where Brain and Frank "share" drum parts (Better and TWAT), you would think they would match the EQ settings for the drums, but when I listen to it in my car which has a subwoofer), Franks low end is completely different and non existent compared to Brain's kit. Brain has a very full low end, and then when Frank comes in, his kick drum has hardly any low end. Of course thats up to personal preference, but when you have completely different kits in the same song, they should at least match everything up Here is an example of the snare sound I am talking about: I am also interested in the snare in music, you can normally get a good idea of when something is made just from how the snare is produced. I think it is a piccolo snare that has this sound. The waveforms are interesting to look at and the transient clearly has less volume during the first part of your highlighted section. Where was you low pass set? I am interested in what "got through" the filter. As far as Better and TWAT go, I would need to go back and listen to the two kits thing, although I don't know if I have any means of listening to sub bass frequencies if that is where the problems are on those tracks. I have not heard any MFSL remasters, I will check them out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mendez Posted January 3, 2017 Author Share Posted January 3, 2017 I see what you mean about the snare. Although I dont think that one is too bad as some of the ones I was thinking of. The low pass was set at either 200 or 225hz with a 48dB rolloff. As for the low end on twat and Better, they sound fine on any headphones of speakers, just when I play them them on anything with a big enough subwoofer. Its kind of like Brains kit has maybe 5dB more of lower end "thump" than Ferrer's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.