Jump to content

The final numbers are in - and they are highly inconsistent...


Recommended Posts

8 hours ago, Thorbear said:

Well there's two sides to everything. Sure, what Bruce is doing with setlists is great fun and when the chips fall the right way the concert turns into something truly amazing. However, other shows can seem unfocused or lose it's "magic" half-way through... 

Setlist-watching might not be as fun with bands like Metallica and GNR (who rotate perhaps a few songs each concert) or Iron Maiden (who play the same setlist each night), but there is something beautiful with a well thought out and dynamic setlist with nice flow and great transitions between songs.

 

And with Bruce it's just him and the band onstage with some spotlights. No lasers, no pyro, no backdrop changes or video-screen graphics which certainly makes it easier for him to change songs on a whim.

There are two sides to it, and I appreciate both sides for one reason or another. My two favorite bands (Iron Maiden and The Mighty Mighty Bosstones) are as opposite as can be on the setlist front. Maiden carefully plan their setlist, no changes at all across the course of a tour (Unless there's a song that just isn't clicking in the first few shows, in which case they'll drop it and replace it with Wrathchild). I've seen them do somewhere in the ballpark of 50 different songs in the 70 shows I've seen. And on the other end of the spectrum is The Mighty Mighty Bosstones - I saw them do more unique songs last week between three shows than I've seen Maiden do in total. They radically change their setlists night to night, they call out audibles, and there's virtually no song in their catalog that's never been played (Literally - out of 9 studio albums and all of the B-sides, there's about a dozen songs they've never played). I've seen them 22 times, and I've seen them do somewhere in the ballpark of 130 different songs live. 

 

A Maiden show is very polished. You know you'll be getting an incredible performance, because they know that set like the back of their hand. And it works for them. Just like the unpredictability of the Bosstones suits them. Yes, every now and then there will be a song that just doesn't quite click. Sometimes Dicky will forget a few words. But there's a certain energy from both the crowd and the band that everyone is sort of on the edge of their seats wondering what will happen next. And considering that they by and large pull everything off with flying colors, it's all that much more impressive. It's fucking exciting when one of your favorite bands has that level of spontaneity. One great example is during their Boston run of dates last week, one night they played a song from 2001 that they'd never played live before, and it was only released on a Vans Warped Tour compilation CD from that year - nowhere else. A few years ago they played a song they recorded for Sesame Street in 1997, and that was the only time they played it live. 

 

It's clear that GN'R is going the ultra-professional, super rehearsed route. And if they want to, fine - that's their choice. But what makes it frustrating as a fan (At least for me personally) is I know they're capable of being the band that's fearless when it comes to taking setlist risks. In 2009 and 2010 it was, to a certain degree, very much a "you don't know what you'll get" typer of gig. And even 2011-2014, there were tinges of that with obscure covers, rare CD songs, etc. The thing is, they have such a small catalog that it would be so easy for them to be able to rehearse a few more songs, and mix it up a bit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, wasted said:

Bruce is a global icon who's been working his ass off for decades. 

I love GNR, but I can't say they are icons of hard work. It's more sensationalism and controversy. Bruce could be a loyal friend for life, GNR turn up out of nowhere and bang your mom then disappear into the night. It's two totally different approaches to life. 

I think Slash is an icon of Hard Rock. Gn'R as a band, not so much. My mom knows who Slash is and kids seems to know. Is it like that in every country? is it global? Is Bruce even Hard Rock? Led Zeppelin are global icons of Hard Rock for example.

Edited by Rovim
Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, Rovim said:

I think Slash is an icon of Hard Rock. Gn'R as a band, not so much. My mom knows who Slash is and kids seems to know. Is it like that in every country? is it global? Is Bruce even Hard Rock? Led Zeppelin are global icons of Hard Rock for example.

Maybe both have sold 100 mil records but in different ways. Bruce has had the full rock career from the 70s. He's pretty eatablished icon. Whereas GNR have been close to being forgotten. Some say they haven't fulfilled their pitential. I see them like having a Zepp catalog, it's about the impact they have. But GNR came out in the 90s. They sold 100 mil records by 94. I read that once. I read. So they shot to the top of rock without the leg work. Zepp have sold 100 mil too but it took longer. Bruce is the same maybe. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, wasted said:

Maybe both have sold 100 mil records but in different ways. Bruce has had the full rock career from the 70s. He's pretty eatablished icon. Whereas GNR have been close to being forgotten. Some say they haven't fulfilled their pitential. I see them like having a Zepp catalog, it's about the impact they have. But GNR came out in the 90s. They sold 100 mil records by 94. I read that once. I read. So they shot to the top of rock without the leg work. Zepp have sold 100 mil too but it took longer. Bruce is the same maybe. 

Pretty much. Gn'R's influence was just not there if you compare it to Lez's impact on bands that came after them. Guns came later and perfected what was already there, influenced themselves by these types of bands like LZ.

And yeah... no one can prove Guns sold 100 mil so I'm doubtful about that as well. Doesn't seem right to me.

As far as influence go, the cool thing is that I feel Slash influenced many guitar players. He's a Page follower, but it sounds meaner, darker.

Off topic and just my opinion: all that talk about Guns not fulfilling even though they put out 5 great albums... those who say that don't realize this alternate universe we're living in where Axl "fucked up Guns N' Roses" and Ozzy saying it was a tragedy... I don't know. This situation is unique. They could have made more great albums probably. If they were less crazy, less ego driven, and agreed more. But seriously... do I really want that? he fuckin' hired Buckethead and Robin from NIN to create an album that no one even came close to attempt in that way. That's rock n' roll to me. And it turned out to be actually good.

Chinese era made Guns and Axl himself 10 times more interesting and special to me, but I didn't felt that way then. This ride has it's own charm.

Edited by Rovim
Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, Rovim said:

Pretty much. Gn'R's influence was just not there if you compare it to Lez's impact on bands that came after them. Guns came later and perfected what was already there, influenced themselves by these types of bands like LZ.

And yeah... no one can prove Guns sold 100 mil so I'm doubtful about that as well. Doesn't seem right to me.

As far as influence go, the cool thing is that I feel Slash influenced many guitar players. He's a Page follower, but it sounds meaner, darker.

Off topic and just my opinion: and all that talk about Guns not fulfilling... those who say that don't realize this alternate universe we're living in where Axl "fucked up Guns N' Roses" and Ozzy saying it was a tragedy... I don't know. This situation is unique. They could have made more great albums probably. If they were less crazy, less ego driven, and agreed more. But seriously... do I really want that? he fuckin' hired Buckethead and Robin from NIN to create an album that was no one even came close to attempting in that way. That's rock n' roll to me. And it turned out to be actually good.

Chinese era made Guns and Axl himself 10 times more interesting and special to me, but I didn't felt that way then. This ride has it's own charm.

Slash said something doing Guns to the hilt, taking it as far as they could and then it was over. Like a Sex Pistols intensity thing. Axl talked about having almost axhieved his dreams before UYI came out. UYI being 2 cds really diaguises how much material they put out. They dominated the 90s. So if we accept GNR did everything in the 90s, then CD is like a Latter Day Zepp album that really expands the scope of the band more than another UYI album would. But it has this anti-album tag around it's neck. So that also plays into this unfulfilled potential thing. Slash and Duff really should have been part of CD. If they canget one more progressive GNR album out they will reach parity without the originality with Zepp in my opinion. The catalog will be as legit as anyones. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 1/8/2017 at 8:33 PM, Thorbear said:

Well there's two sides to everything. Sure, what Bruce is doing with setlists is great fun and when the chips fall the right way the concert turns into something truly amazing. However, other shows can seem unfocused or lose it's "magic" half-way through... 

Setlist-watching might not be as fun with bands like Metallica and GNR (who rotate perhaps a few songs each concert) or Iron Maiden (who play the same setlist each night), but there is something beautiful with a well thought out and dynamic setlist with nice flow and great transitions between songs.

 

And with Bruce it's just him and the band onstage with some spotlights. No lasers, no pyro, no backdrop changes or video-screen graphics which certainly makes it easier for him to change songs on a whim.

Metallica are WAY more adventurous than GnR with setlists. Metallica change opening songs all the time, and add in obscure deep cuts reasonably often... GNR stick solidly to the set that works, and on a really special night they break open the reserve songs. 

Bands the size of GnR and Metallica etc. all have at least 10-15 songs that they really should play when they perform, that leaves 10 or more songs that can be changed pleasing everybody.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 hours ago, Zurimor said:

Regarding Bruce Springsteen: You must know some songs by him, Born in the USA, Streets of Philadelphia, Dancing in the Dark, Secret Garden....can't be different unless you're from the Mars maybe. :P

Getting off-topic here, but Secret Garden? I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm just curious because I would count this as one of his most obscure songs, I know plenty of people who know of songs from the Promise and Tracks but who have never even heard of Secret Garden... was it a single or something for the Greatest Hits album? Did it get much airplay? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, Rovim said:

Pretty much. Gn'R's influence was just not there if you compare it to Lez's impact on bands that came after them. Guns came later and perfected what was already there, influenced themselves by these types of bands like LZ.

And yeah... no one can prove Guns sold 100 mil so I'm doubtful about that as well. Doesn't seem right to me.

As far as influence go, the cool thing is that I feel Slash influenced many guitar players. He's a Page follower, but it sounds meaner, darker.

Off topic and just my opinion: all that talk about Guns not fulfilling even though they put out 5 great albums... those who say that don't realize this alternate universe we're living in where Axl "fucked up Guns N' Roses" and Ozzy saying it was a tragedy... I don't know. This situation is unique. They could have made more great albums probably. If they were less crazy, less ego driven, and agreed more. But seriously... do I really want that? he fuckin' hired Buckethead and Robin from NIN to create an album that no one even came close to attempting in that way. That's rock n' roll to me. And it turned out to be actually good.

Chinese era made Guns and Axl himself 10 times more interesting and special to me, but I didn't felt that way then. This ride has it's own charm.

http://www.metalinjection.net/its-just-business/record-sales/disturbed-megadeth-metallicas-black-album-top-selling-metal-albums-of-2016-so-far This makes me believe that they do in fact have 100million sales or more, every year they still shift 70000+ copies of AFD and the greatest hit, not to mention UYI, Lies, TSI, Live Era, and CD. 

Edited by Tom2112
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Zurimor said:

I think it's one of those songs many know but only few know the title of. Yes, it's on his greatest hits album, too. When you hear the keys in the intro, you'll probably recognize it.

 

Well I know the song as I'm a pretty big Springsteen fan, I'm just saying I don't know many others here in Sweden who would recognize it... 

 

28 minutes ago, Tom2112 said:

Metallica are WAY more adventurous than GnR with setlists. Metallica change opening songs all the time, and add in obscure deep cuts reasonably often...

Yes, they change things around, and more so on some tour than others I guess, but after seeing them 6 times between 2007-2010 it started to get repetitive... songs change from day to day, but it is from a pool of staples... one day fuel, next for whom the bell tolls, then back to fuel the day after that... you get fade to black or sanatarium... sure they threw in a really wild card one time or two like like dyers eve or ... but that

The best Metallica shows I saw where two in Stockholm during the first european leg of Death Magnetic tour, when they played most of the songs from the new album... that for me was really exciting, even though the setlist was probably even more static during those shows than the others I have seen. They were excited, the songs sounded raw and the production was spectacular.   

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Thorbear said:

Well I know the song as I'm a pretty big Springsteen fan, I'm just saying I don't know many others here in Sweden who would recognize it...

Well, I knew it. I'm not from Sweden though, maybe that's why. :D

Isn't it from some soundtrack or something like that? Don't remember which one.

Edited by Zurimor
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Tom2112 said:

This makes me believe that they do in fact have 100million sales or more, every year they still shift 70000+ copies of AFD and the greatest hit, not to mention UYI, Lies, TSI, Live Era, and CD. 

Of course they did. Just give them a few more years and I'm sure they'll surpass The Beatles and MJ combined. Chinese alone will probably sell an additional 10 to 20 mil in about 4 to 5 years. Slash and Duff playing Better will make it happen, just you wait and see. The demand is there. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 1/8/2017 at 9:13 AM, scooby845 said:

 

No chance in surpassing U2...

http://www.pollstar.com/news_article.aspx?ID=828819

It's hard to imagine in this day and age anyone will ever surpass U2's 360 tour. I think they earned just over $730 million on that tour. Almost $200 million ahead of the next closest tour. I don't know how any band will ever do numbers like that 360 tour ever again. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, Rovim said:

Of course they did. Just give them a few more years and I'm sure they'll surpass The Beatles and MJ combined. Chinese alone will probably sell an additional 10 to 20 mil in about 4 to 5 years. Slash and Duff playing Better will make it happen, just you wait and see. The demand is there. 

My god :facepalm: are you not able read? Where did I ever say they were about to triple their current OFFICIAL record sales. 

I'm saying they have 3 incredibly popular albums that continue to sell huge numbers every year, over a period of 30 years. I'm also saying they exploded during a time when record sales were crazy so it's easy to believe that they knocked up considerable sales within the first 10 years.

Look at it this way in the 90s Stone Temple Pilots sold somewhere in the region of 35 million records worldwide (they are no way near as popular as GnR), Megadeth have sold about 60 million albums worldwide and they are no way near as well known. So you look at those numbers and you say neither band still has songs on current rotation with radio or 4 bonafide classic songs that everyone knows and yet they have huge sales. I look at that and decide to take the leap that yes, it's quite possible that they've sold all the records mentioned. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Tom2112 said:

My god :facepalm: are you not able read? Where did I ever say they were about to triple their current OFFICIAL record sales. 

I'm saying they have 3 incredibly popular albums that continue to sell huge numbers every year, over a period of 30 years. I'm also saying they exploded during a time when record sales were crazy so it's easy to believe that they knocked up considerable sales within the first 10 years.

Look at it this way in the 90s Stone Temple Pilots sold somewhere in the region of 35 million records worldwide (they are no way near as popular as GnR), Megadeth have sold about 60 million albums worldwide and they are no way near as well known. So you look at those numbers and you say neither band still has songs on current rotation with radio or 4 bonafide classic songs that everyone knows and yet they have huge sales. I look at that and decide to take the leap that yes, it's quite possible that they've sold all the records mentioned. 

 

Listen carefully: I think there is no way in hell Guns sold 100 mil albums. Not even close. You said maybe even more. You're dreaming imo. And you don't even know the numbers man. 100 mil Guns albums sold is just a widespread rumor. There is no proof. Someone decided to think up a nice round number. It's not real imo.

Edited by Rovim
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Rovim said:

Listen carefully: I think there is no way in hell Guns sold 100 mil albums. Not even close. You said maybe even more. You're dreaming imo. And you don't even know the numbers man. 100 mil Guns albums sold is just a widespread rumor. There is no proof. Someone decided to think up a nice round number. It's not real imo.

You're absolutely right. I take your no evidence argument and 100% accept it. It's just a music industry conspiracy to make people think Guns N' Roses are bigger than they actually are. Where did you get your tin foil hat or was it home made?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Tom2112 said:

You're absolutely right. I take your no evidence argument and 100% accept it. It's just a music industry conspiracy to make people think Guns N' Roses are bigger than they actually are. Where did you get your tin foil hat or was it home made?

I'm with Duff on this one. And where did I say I have evidence? can you even read? it doesn't have to be a conspiracy, but sometimes when people, industry people, people in general don't know, they make shit up , yes.

I think Gn'R never sold 100 mil. I'm not paranoid, I just don't think it's a real number. It's like god, most people believe, but not real. Imo.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

40 minutes ago, Zurimor said:

Well, I knew it. I'm not from Sweden though, maybe that's why. :D

Isn't it from some soundtrack or something like that? Don't remember which one.

I googled it and apparently it was on the soundtrack to Jerry Maguire... so I guess it is a song people would recognize if they hear it :) 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Rovim said:

I'm with Duff on this one. And where did I say I have evidence? can you even read? it doesn't have to be a conspiracy, but sometimes when people, industry people, people in general don't know, they make shit up , yes.

I think Gn'R never sold 100 mil. I'm not paranoid, I just don't think it's a real number. It's like god, most people believe, but not real. Imo.

And what exactly did Duff say that says their record sales figures are false, because I've never heard him say that... and for that matter I've never heard any member of the band saying anything like that. In fact the only time i've ever come across anything like that was on here, so I simply ask where are you getting your information. If you have some information that puts a question mark over the figures i'll happily look it, I just don't think you have any... and you seem to think that your argument is valid without any supporting evidence... "It's like god, most people believe, but not real";)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Tom2112 said:

And what exactly did Duff say that says their record sales figures are false, because I've never heard him say that... and for that matter I've never heard any member of the band saying anything like that. In fact the only time i've ever come across anything like that was on here, so I simply ask where are you getting your information. If you have some information that puts a question mark over the figures i'll happily look it, I just don't think you have any... and you seem to think that your argument is valid without any supporting evidence... "It's like god, most people believe, but not real";)

Video interview where Duff clearly questioned it being true. Fairly recent one too. Your limited Gn'R knowledge is not relevant. I never said I had evidence it didn't sell 100 mil. Just that I question it being true. How many times must I repeat myself until you get it?

I don't believe Gn'R sold 100 mil. Appetite is rumored to have sold 30 mil. about that number. Even if UYI sold 40 mil combined, and Lies sold 5 mil, Chinese 5 (lol) it would still be 80 mil. And that is being generous.

But I don't have any real numbers. What evidence do you have to support your theory? that others believe that as well? do me a fuckin' favor.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Rovim said:

 

I don't believe Gn'R sold 100 mil. Appetite is rumored to have sold 30 mil. about that number. Even if UYI sold 40 mil combined, and Lies sold 5 mil, Chinese 5 (lol) it would still be 80 mil. And that is being generous.

Greatest hits, Live Era, all the singles? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...