a quick Q about Patience from Appetite For Democracy DVD

[wasted]

Dj has that LA scene thing. He hangs out with Motely. I'm not that offended by his Mick Mars/Slash clone thing because those are his influences. He understood Axl was going to be late etc. 

But I think he's just the wrong side of the line. To me GNR were always cooler than Motely. But Motely are cooler than Dj. Maybe it's not the right direction for a GNR record but as touring guitarist Indianna connection #3 seems to fit okay. 

[Towelie]

2 minutes ago, AxlRoseCDII said:

DJ's solos sound like punky, emo feel guitar. Far from the bluesy stones-influenced Slash solos.

 

Axl and Ron could've looked badass with some proper advertising. Imagine if there were interviews during this time period, new music, behind the scenes and heavily documented videos of the new band. But instead Axl and Ron were presented as employee and boss or just two strangers who barely interacted. And DJ is a joke on stage- all that makeup and accessories and a sell out to Monster Energy Drinks. To many, he was a 4th rate slash clone.

Completely agree. Axl never gave Ron the chance to shine and lets face it, Ron was more than capable of stepping up to the mark. Ron could play things no other GNR guitarist could even attempt, and I'm including Bucket in that.

Trouble is, I don't think it was personal to Ron, I just don't think Axl was all that invested in GNR as a whole back then (I'm not convinced much has changed in that regard even now Slash and Duff are back, Axl just don't give a fuck).

[wasted]

I like what Ron did on CD so who knows. 

I really felt a Ron, Fortus, Dj album would be fine. But I guess Slash can do the Ron and Dj parts of CD II and bring the whole thing full circle. 

Edited January 16, 2017 by wasted

[BlueJean Baby]

6 minutes ago, Towelie said:

Completely agree. Axl never gave Ron the chance to shine and lets face it, Ron was more than capable of stepping up to the mark. Ron could play things no other GNR guitarist could even attempt, and I'm including Bucket in that.

Trouble is, I don't think it was personal to Ron, I just don't think Axl was all that invested in GNR as a whole back then (I'm not convinced much has changed in that regard even now Slash and Duff are back, Axl just don't give a fuck).

Totally disagree, Axl has always tried to keep GNR going and went through hell in doing so. Not everyone agrees with what he did, but he does give a fuck. And that's my opinion on the subject.

[AxlRoseCDII]

9 minutes ago, Towelie said:

Completely agree. Axl never gave Ron the chance to shine and lets face it, Ron was more than capable of stepping up to the mark. Ron could play things no other GNR guitarist could even attempt, and I'm including Bucket in that.

Trouble is, I don't think it was personal to Ron, I just don't think Axl was all that invested in GNR as a whole back then (I'm not convinced much has changed in that regard even now Slash and Duff are back, Axl just don't give a fuck).

Ron was the best thing about NuGNR from 2009-2014. Giving the fans information, pushing GNR to release new music or a single before a tour leg. Ron had passion, he was the only one who really wanted to push the thing forward and not be a touring act. He said he wished he could put out boxsets and documentaries and making of videos for CD- but it wasn't up to him. Not only that but to be alongside DJ is embarsssing because BF was 5 times the guitarist he was. NuGNR could've been great with the proper care and advertising but yes, you are right- Axl doesn't care and doesn't have the passion like Bumblefoot had. He has some passion back with Sluff back but for the most part, he has stopped caring.

[AxlRoseCDII]

3 minutes ago, BlueJean Baby said:

Totally disagree, Axl has always tried to keep GNR going and went through hell in doing so. Not everyone agrees with what he did, but he does give a fuck. And that's my opinion on the subject.

Disagree back at you- one album with new material in a quarter of a century, no interviews, no press, no singles, no advertising, DJ Ashba, half assed performances from 11-14 including the tobaccles of Rock In Rio 11, Bridge School and The Golden Gods, failing to release CD in a year like 2001/2 or 2006, failing to keep musicial geniuses like Buckethead, Freeze, Brain, Finck and Bumblefoot, cancelled tours, empty years from 1994-2000, 2003-2005, 2008-2009, and 2015. Not to mention 2011-2014 had no artistic integrity.

Axl ruined the GNR name during these years when he didn't have to. He doesn't give a fuck- or rather , didn't during these years.

[DieselDaisy]

I wonder what this ''hell'' was he was supposed to have gone through? Seems he created the majority of problems for himself.

[wasted]

I think although he was within his rights to keep GNR going it was very difficult due to media/fan perception of how GNR ended. Once he started it was difficult to turn back. Especially with nothing to turn back to. Izzy and Steven still have some problem. But early 2000s I read quotes with Slash saying he wouldn't go back. Axl was late through those years too. I doubt Slash would have lasted on the road to CD. Maybe there's flipside where Slash could have played on CD and eased it's released. 2001 Axl offered Slash 3 songs, Slash didn't take him up on that. So that kind of sums up the limbo Axl lived in. I was right, but I need Slash, but now I have to do this. Axl was a prisoner of freedom. 

Edited January 16, 2017 by wasted

[AxlRoseCDII]

3 minutes ago, wasted said:

I think although he was within his rights to keep GNR going it was very difficult due to media/fan perception of how GNR ended. Once he started it was difficult to turn back. Especially with nothing to turn back to. Izzy and Steven still have some problem. But early 2000s I read quotes with Slash saying he wouldn't go back. Axl was late through those years too. I doubt Slash would have lasted on the road to CD. Maybe there's flipside where Slash could have played on CD and eased it's released. 2001 Axl offered Slash 3 songs, Slash didn't take him up on that. So that kind of sums up the limbo Axl lived in. I was right, but I need Slash, but now I have to do this. Axl was a prisoner of freedom. 

Axl could've made NuGNR relevant  and great (pre 2009 line up) with proper advertising, care, new music and support. At the end of the day, it's on him.

[wasted]

1 minute ago, AxlRoseCDII said:

Axl could've made NuGNR relevant  and great (pre 2009 line up) with proper advertising, care, new music and support. At the end of the day, it's on him.

Not entirely. Azoff pulled the plug on CD promo/tour to try to orchestrate a reunion tour with Slash/Duff. Rumored to have sacked Finck. The idea was to tour CD with Slash, like we are seeing now (!) Then get Slash on the follow up which the label thought was a great GNR record with Slash. 

But I think the problem conceptually was always just No Slash. That was always a problem for the label in what they heard in 1999. Or how they sell or tour it. It's always just no Slash. Okay they might toss CD out but mainly it was just to get the bomb out the way. Then Axl and Slash back together. There was no real support for the trilogy even if Axl wanted to do it. The label told them don't bother with a video. 

[AxlRoseCDII]

2 hours ago, wasted said:

Not entirely. Azoff pulled the plug on CD promo/tour to try to orchestrate a reunion tour with Slash/Duff. Rumored to have sacked Finck. The idea was to tour CD with Slash, like we are seeing now (!) Then get Slash on the follow up which the label thought was a great GNR record with Slash. 

But I think the problem conceptually was always just No Slash. That was always a problem for the label in what they heard in 1999. Or how they sell or tour it. It's always just no Slash. Okay they might toss CD out but mainly it was just to get the bomb out the way. Then Axl and Slash back together. There was no real support for the trilogy even if Axl wanted to do it. The label told them don't bother with a video. 

Do you not think that if it truly mattered to him, the millionaire artist would find other ways to get his work out? Do you not think any of label would try to suck the man off just to get CD? It's on Axl. End of story.

[wasted]

1 hour ago, AxlRoseCDII said:

Do you not think that if it truly mattered to him, the millionaire artist would find other ways to get his work out? Do you not think any of label would try to suck the man off just to get CD? It's on Axl. End of story.

No, he can't do that. The label owns that material. They paid for it to be recorded etc. 

They can put out records but without label support it won't be a success. And they won't release just anything because they have contract for so many records. 

We're talking about nu Guns being a success. It's not as simple as just releasing albums. 

I still think it could have been more successful somehow. That lift off point never happened. Was it Better in 2006? 

Edited January 16, 2017 by wasted

[Towelie]

16 minutes ago, wasted said:

No, he can't do that. The label owns that material. They paid for it to be recorded etc. 

They can put out records but without label support it won't be a success. And they won't release just anything because they have contract for so many records. 

We're talking about nu Guns being a success. It's not as simple as just releasing albums. 

Stop making excuses for Axl.

What effort did Axl really put in to make NuGuns a success or a credible rock band? He was woefully underprepared for both 2002 MTV Awards and Rock In Rio 2011. He never bothered doing soundchecks. He didn't put out one professional band photo in the whole duration of the groups existence. He repeatedly missed deadlines for CD's release, driving both BH and Finck to quit the band out of frustration. And when it eventually was forced out against his will, he went awol, did no interviews or telly performances in support of the album. All he did was whinge on a fanboard and then turn up two hours late to concerts.

He thought he could just sit back on his ass, use the GNR name for all its perks and that people should either get on board or fuck off. Axl's tardiness and lack of work ethic is what buried NuGuns, not the label.

 

Edited January 16, 2017 by Towelie

[DR DOOM]

No doubt Ron was/is a very talented guitarist, but any of his own songs I've heard have been pretty awful.

I guess if you're into stuff like Linkin Park, Limp Bizkit and all that nu metal stuff you might think Ron's stuff is pretty awesome...personally I hate that shit, and I can't blame Axl for not wanting to write songs with him (or DJ).

Look no further than Art Of Anarchy.

[BlueJean Baby]

1 hour ago, wasted said:

No, he can't do that. The label owns that material. They paid for it to be recorded etc. 

They can put out records but without label support it won't be a success. And they won't release just anything because they have contract for so many records. 

We're talking about nu Guns being a success. It's not as simple as just releasing albums. 

You are right about that. Plus he had all kinds of legal issues going on.  

If he didn't care, he could have gone on without the GNR name and not kept trying to pull things back together, which would have saved him all the years of ridicule from the fans, media etc. 

He said in the China interview that if he had known what he does now, he would have started his own record label, which goes to prove that hindsight is 20/20. 

Now that things seem to be coming back together, it's not going to be instantly back to the way it was before, they have all matured, gotten sober, and the music industry has totally changed. Radio and MTV are not there to promote your music like they used to be. 

I am not trying to make excuses for Axl, I am just stating my opinion. I have been defending him for years now and just really feel bad for him being constantly bashed by fans no matter what he does. I believe in him no matter what. New leg of tour starts in a few days, I truly think there will be good things to come.

 

[wasted]

2 hours ago, Towelie said:

Stop making excuses for Axl.

What effort did Axl really put in to make NuGuns a success or a credible rock band? He was woefully underprepared for both 2002 MTV Awards and Rock In Rio 2011. He never bothered doing soundchecks. He didn't put out one professional band photo in the whole duration of the groups existence. He repeatedly missed deadlines for CD's release, driving both BH and Finck to quit the band out of frustration. And when it eventually was forced out against his will, he went awol, did no interviews or telly performances in support of the album. All he did was whinge on a fanboard and then turn up two hours late to concerts.

He thought he could just sit back on his ass, use the GNR name for all its perks and that people should either get on board or fuck off. Axl's tardiness and lack of work ethic is what buried NuGuns, not the label.

 

I agree in someways but I think it's probably only half the story. 

A tv slot is pretty hard to pull off really. But the tours were mostly successful. We sort read too much into a few ropey performances. Like it means Axl doesn't care or it's the reason they weren't successful. But nothing has changed on Reunion tour  and they are selling out stadiums. 

I think there was a kind of tug of war with the label. When Axl wanted to go they didn't, when they wanted to go Axl thought the plan wasn't in place or he wanted to do more. Partly I think after working so hard they wanted to get the release right. 

It's true it probably should have come out in 04. But I think that's almost already too late for Nu Guns to be successful. There's no real reason for the 2004-8 delay.

Even with Bucket gone they could still release it. But again the label just wanted to dump it out and trying recoup the money. Maybe Axl was looking for more. 

Maybe once it wasn't going to be this huge success Axl at least wanted to be happy with the music.

I would say the label rejecting albums in 99 and 2000 was why Nu Guns werent successful. It just spread doubt and added 10 mil to the bill. For the contract they had I guess they didnt want to blow two records on Slashless records. 

 

 

Edited January 16, 2017 by wasted

[wasted]

1 hour ago, DR DOOM said:

No doubt Ron was/is a very talented guitarist, but any of his own songs I've heard have been pretty awful.

I guess if you're into stuff like Linkin Park, Limp Bizkit and all that nu metal stuff you might think Ron's stuff is pretty awesome...personally I hate that shit, and I can't blame Axl for not wanting to write songs with him (or DJ).

Look no further than Art Of Anarchy.

I guess in Guns Ron was used in most cases like Slash was used on UYI. Even Slash only has a few of his own songs on those records. 

Ron did do a lot of work on CD though. Maybe he quit because he wasn't going to get full writing credits. 

[Towelie]

1 hour ago, DR DOOM said:

 

Look no further than Art Of Anarchy.

Art of Anarchy's debut is a great record and sounds nothing like the bands you listed.

[AlexC]

8 hours ago, wasted said:

Bucket and Bumble are virtuosos you can't really criticize them for guitar. Finck was more the feel player, I think that was Dj's job. Dj might not be that good but he's not that bad either. I just can't believe he plays guitar as his job and he's that bad. I think he has a style and applied it sometimes when maybe he should have just stuck to the script. I thought he brought a more glam rock feel to everything, instead of the more avante garde Finck. In the end though Dj and Ron were hired to tour CD. It worked until 2011 then they became a Vegas act. I really felt that Axl and Dj could do at least one song. I think Baz said he heard one they did and it was awesome. 

I'm not saying it would be bad but Sebastian Bach would never say a bad word against Axl, so I think his opinion should be taken with a grain of salt.

[wasted]

1 hour ago, BlueJean Baby said:

You are right about that. Plus he had all kinds of legal issues going on.  

If he didn't care, he could have gone on without the GNR name and not kept trying to pull things back together, which would have saved him all the years of ridicule from the fans, media etc. 

He said in the China interview that if he had known what he does now, he would have started his own record label, which goes to prove that hindsight is 20/20. 

Now that things seem to be coming back together, it's not going to be instantly back to the way it was before, they have all matured, gotten sober, and the music industry has totally changed. Radio and MTV are not there to promote your music like they used to be. 

I am not trying to make excuses for Axl, I am just stating my opinion. I have been defending him for years now and just really feel bad for him being constantly bashed by fans no matter what he does. I believe in him no matter what. New leg of tour starts in a few days, I truly think there will be good things to come.

 

There's really not much to be excused for. Rock n roll is too important to take seriously. 

[wasted]

8 minutes ago, AlexC said:

I'm not saying it would be bad but Sebastian Bach would never say a bad word against Axl, so I think his opinion should be taken with a grain of salt.

I'm more staggered that a Axl Dj song exists.

And then you have Fortus saying Axl took parts of his his stuff and Dj's parts to combine them to make a song. 

Quite frustrating if you are paying attention. 

[AlexC]

1 minute ago, wasted said:

I'm more staggered that a Axl Dj song exists.

And then you have Fortus saying Axl took parts of his his stuff and Dj's parts to combine them to make a song. 

Quite frustrating if you are paying attention. 

Really? He did that? That line up in no way ever was a real band that collaborated. 100% Axl. Let's hope it's more of a collaboration moving forward.

[wasted]

3 minutes ago, AlexC said:

Really? He did that? That line up in no way ever was a real band that collaborated. 100% Axl. Let's hope it's more of a collaboration moving forward.

What Fortus was saying is that is how Axl works. Fortus did say he wrote with Dj but not Ron. 

[BlueJean Baby]

Just now, wasted said:

There's really not much to be excused for. Rock n roll is too important to take seriously. 

I agree. My main thing is that I have been involved with people in bands since I was 15. None that really made it big, other than a couple of guys that later joined bigger bands. People don't understand that a lot of times, when bands break up, it's ten times worse than getting a divorce. Far more emotional. There are some that just want to play music and others that have really put their heart and soul into it. And if they are able to get things back together, it's a very touchy situation and trust has to be regained. Nothing is going happen overnight. Axl is a survivor, I think things can work out.

[wasted]

I think Slash knows Axl's talent so he might want to go in one more time.