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a quick Q about Patience from Appetite For Democracy DVD


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1 hour ago, wasted said:

I agree in someways but I think it's probably only half the story. 

A tv slot is pretty hard to pull off really. But the tours were mostly successful. We sort read too much into a few ropey performances. Like it means Axl doesn't care or it's the reason they weren't successful. But nothing has changed on Reunion tour  and they are selling out stadiums. 

I think there was a kind of tug of war with the label. When Axl wanted to go they didn't, when they wanted to go Axl thought the plan wasn't in place or he wanted to do more. Partly I think after working so hard they wanted to get the release right. 

It's true it probably should have come out in 04. But I think that's almost already too late for Nu Guns to be successful. There's no real reason for the 2004-8 delay.

Even with Bucket gone they could still release it. But again the label just wanted to dump it out and trying recoup the money. Maybe Axl was looking for more. 

Maybe once it wasn't going to be this huge success Axl at least wanted to be happy with the music.

I would say the label rejecting albums in 99 and 2000 was why Nu Guns werent successful. It just spread doubt and added 10 mil to the bill. For the contract they had I guess they didnt want to blow two records on Slashless records. 

 

 

I don't necessarily buy into the fan theory that the label sabotaged NuGuns in an attempt to stronghold Axl into a reunion. Would a GNR album with Slash really have sold any more copies than Chinese Democracy? I really don't think so. Now if we're talking in a live setting, then yes, clearly Slash's presence in the band is something that concert-goers will want to see. But in terms of a new record, I don't think Slash coming back to GNR is suddenly going to make all the difference in terms of hit singles and massive multi-platinum selling albums. 1991 ain't ever coming back.

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On 15.1.2017 at 1:46 PM, wasted said:

I thought it was a stunning solo, even if it didn't really fit the song, it worked somehow in Vegas. 

People are too hard on Dj, he's obviously a good guitarist. Just his image is the wrong side of the line. 

Just stop talking please

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5 hours ago, Towelie said:

I don't necessarily buy into the fan theory that the label sabotaged NuGuns in an attempt to stronghold Axl into a reunion. Would a GNR album with Slash really have sold any more copies than Chinese Democracy? I really don't think so. Now if we're talking in a live setting, then yes, clearly Slash's presence in the band is something that concert-goers will want to see. But in terms of a new record, I don't think Slash coming back to GNR is suddenly going to make all the difference in terms of hit singles and massive multi-platinum selling albums. 1991 ain't ever coming back.

I think so. At least before it stretched to ten years. There was a nasty divorce and while some of the kids supported both many of the kids took sides. There are still people who 100% blame Axl for the break up of the band.  If momma and poppa got back together in those first ten years I think more people would have been willing to give it a chance. Of course they wouldn't sell what they once did but it would have been much more accepted than Chinese was.

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17 hours ago, wasted said:

I just don't see why they would hire an awful guitarist. It's more a matter of taste. Maybe he's not the most technical, but he seems pretty good to me. The Ballad of Death solo is great. Maybe it is style or his stage presence. He just looks good playing the Chi dem riff and knows what to wear and the poses. I guess Slash is both, so they need Dj and Ron to cover all the bases. Dj might have his limitations but he's been successful with Sixx Am so how bad is he really. He's played with Motely and Guns. I have no knowledge of guitar so I have to just assume he's good enough for Nikki and Axl. But yeah in comparison to Slash in GNR it's no contest but does that mean he's awful? 

It's not about technical, like I couldn't give a shit if he's incapable of sweep picking and the shredding that Bumble could do. It's that he's not even mastered the basics that you'd expect of a guitarist who's been playing for a year or 2. His bends are way off-key (consistently), his phrasing is awkward and unoriginal, he will not move out of the basic pentatonic scales, he can't figure out how to go from one end of the scale to the other end without just playing every note in order, his tone is absolutely horrid - you can't just keep adding distortion and hope no-one hears the bum notes. Seriously your average teenager who's been playing for 2 years could easily do better. I've been playing guitar for 15 years but even friends who aren't musical in any way have noticed how horrible his playing is. I don't know whether he can't play well, doesn't practice, doesn't care - I don't know, but he should not be playing guitar, and not for a band like Guns N' Roses that has always been fronted by incredible guitarists - Slash, Bucket, Bumble, etc.

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4 hours ago, MrSoftie said:

It's not about technical, like I couldn't give a shit if he's incapable of sweep picking and the shredding that Bumble could do. It's that he's not even mastered the basics that you'd expect of a guitarist who's been playing for a year or 2. His bends are way off-key (consistently), his phrasing is awkward and unoriginal, he will not move out of the basic pentatonic scales, he can't figure out how to go from one end of the scale to the other end without just playing every note in order, his tone is absolutely horrid - you can't just keep adding distortion and hope no-one hears the bum notes. Seriously your average teenager who's been playing for 2 years could easily do better. I've been playing guitar for 15 years but even friends who aren't musical in any way have noticed how horrible his playing is. I don't know whether he can't play well, doesn't practice, doesn't care - I don't know, but he should not be playing guitar, and not for a band like Guns N' Roses that has always been fronted by incredible guitarists - Slash, Bucket, Bumble, etc.

A lot of what you said was subjective. Maybe he is more style than substance. He did play for the Bullet Boys. Maybe the bum notes are him trying to be a feel player. 

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10 hours ago, Towelie said:

I don't necessarily buy into the fan theory that the label sabotaged NuGuns in an attempt to stronghold Axl into a reunion. Would a GNR album with Slash really have sold any more copies than Chinese Democracy? I really don't think so. Now if we're talking in a live setting, then yes, clearly Slash's presence in the band is something that concert-goers will want to see. But in terms of a new record, I don't think Slash coming back to GNR is suddenly going to make all the difference in terms of hit singles and massive multi-platinum selling albums. 1991 ain't ever coming back.

It's basically a GNR fact Azzof tried to do a reunion tour to promote CD. In 99 Jimmy Iovine thought the sounds of the Beavan record were too raw according to Tommy. Roughly translated this industrial record doesn't sound like GNR (code for where's Slash?) Throughout the 00s a GNR reunion with Slash would have doubled sales no doubt. In 2004 VR sold 4 mil. Azoff managed VR, Azoff managed CD released. It was close. I respect Axl for seeing out CD once he started. 

I guess people want absolutes. An easy one is to blame Axl. It's very rarely works like that. Basically though everything fails, and if you set your self up as the bad guy then it's more than likely people will blame you for the inevitable failure. I suppose Axl should get all the credit for the reunion then. Nothing works like that. It was Duff or Stephen Tyler. Got it. 

Right now it seems hard almost impossible to have a hit or success like the 90s. Maybe this favors Axl the artist though. There's no pressure for a release so they can take their time. But maybe they miss being wanted. The pressure and fame of the Illusion era was what it's all about. I really think they are their own thing and have a fanbase. But to ignore the business/money/ego factors would be naive at this point. 

It's just good they made up publicly. 

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38 minutes ago, wasted said:

A lot of what you said was subjective. Maybe he is more style than substance. He did play for the Bullet Boys. Maybe the bum notes are him trying to be a feel player. 

I was on youtube today and did some research. These are my objective conclusions about DJ's guitar skrillz:

1. he is, in fact, a douche and I dislike his guitar playing and his image.

2. he wrote 3 instrumental pieces for Guns live which were: Ballad Of Death, Mi Amor, La Bella Vita which are decent.

3. He is what you can call a "feel" player, he is melodic and has a knack for constructing catchy pop emo tunes with a style that does bare his signature. Like he'll take a few generic chords and write tunes Motley will use and Sixx. That does take some talent, but it's the lowest form of it. It's basically anti-talent cause he only has the power to create what I consider to be somewhat pleasing yet generic melodies. It is more style than substance. But he's good at doing what he does. In the style department he delivers. He's a swag player.

I can see how Axl could have used his abilities in a Guns album. His reworked Better was a good indication of his style, but not what he can do with material he wrote. Not his first rodeo when it comes to playing that role.

Having said that, I don't consider him to be a good guitar player, he even said he's not the best when it comes to that. But he had enough elements to do an album with Axl imo. I'm not interested in that and his bends are fuckin' horrid but it could have worked I suspect.

This post was like examining a stool sample and it was fuckin' brutal to type.

 

 

Edited by Rovim
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2 minutes ago, Rovim said:

I was on youtube today and did some research. These are my objective conclusions about DJ's guitar skrillz:

1. he is, in fact, a douche and I dislike his guitar playing and his image.

2. he wrote 3 instrumental pieces for Guns live which were: Ballad Of Death, Mi Amor, La Bella Vita which are decent.

3. He is what you can call a "feel" player, he is melodic and has a knack for constructing catchy pop emo tunes with a style that does bare his signature. Like he'll take a few generic chords and write tunes Motley will use and Sixx. That does take some talent, but it's the lowest form of it. It's basically anti-talent cause he only has the power to create what I consider to be somewhat pleasing yet generic melodies. It is more syle than substance. But he's good at doing what he does. In the style department he delivers. He's a swag player.

I can see how Axl could have used his abilities in a Guns album. His reworked Better was a good indication of his style, but not what he can do with material he wrote. Not his first rodeo when it comes to playing that role.

Having said that, I don't consider him a good guitar player, he even said he's not the best when it comes to that. But he had enough elements to do an album with Axl imo. I'm not interested in that and his bends are fuckin' horrid but it could have worked I suspect.

This post was like examining a stool sample and it was fuckin' brutal to type.

 

 

At least I was right. 

It's almost like people when they say they don't need to be able to draw realistic depictions of apples to make a modern art painting. It makes sense but you suspect it might help. But when art is now made by automated systems we may have crossed the line. This isn't even virtual reality, Toto. 

Obviously Dj is a little out of place in GNR. But he is zeitjest as fuck. In the age of the amateur he's an over achiever. A guitar hero for generation twitter. 

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On 1/14/2017 at 10:16 AM, whatashame said:

1. at the end of the slow part of the song, Ashba plays his guitar solo and Stinson says something to him. Can you read his lips and tell me what he says? That's the part when Ashba doesn't react to him.

Then Dizzy and Bumblefoot start to clap and laugh and Axl comments Ashba's playing by saying "living the dream" to the microphone.

starts at 3 min 30 sec

What's up with that? This looks like sarcasm to me.  I remember we used to send gifs around this forum with GNR members making fun of Ashba's playing during the Patience solo. Does it come from that time? Are they just hazing him, for a lack of a better word? Or is it something else I just don't get?

 

2. When the 2nd part of the song starts, you know the one when you think the song is over but they start playing again, Dizzy plays some piano part that I am sure comes from another famous classic rock song. I can't remember which one to save my life.

starts at 4 min 35 sec in the video I posted above
 

 

yea, thanks. have a nice weekend y'all

 

Not sure why I watched it.  Those guys were all such show boaters...truly "living the dream".  Bunch of posers.....gonna YouTube the real deal now.   Can't believe people actually liked and considered that Guns n Roses.  

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1 hour ago, Original said:

Not sure why I watched it.  Those guys were all such show boaters...truly "living the dream".  Bunch of posers.....gonna YouTube the real deal now.   Can't believe people actually liked and considered that Guns n Roses.  

HAHA, you just inspired me to actually listen to that (or watch it), my god it is awful, truly awful.  

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1 hour ago, tsinindy said:

HAHA, you just inspired me to actually listen to that (or watch it), my god it is awful, truly awful.  

LOL...glad I inspired someone to do something.  Seriously though- look at those guys compared to Slash n Duff....true pros.  The 'Nu' guys were (well I guess they really were) like a cover band in a Spinal Tap-ish way.  

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11 hours ago, wasted said:

A lot of what you said was subjective. Maybe he is more style than substance. He did play for the Bullet Boys. Maybe the bum notes are him trying to be a feel player. 

Are you trolling or..? There's a right and a wrong way to play - he plays wrong. It's not style to play bends that are either flat or sharp all of the time. There's a reason why pianos don't half notes in between each key.

Yeah I'm going to go ahead and assume you're trolling.

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Just now, MrSoftie said:

Are you trolling or..? There's a right and a wrong way to play - he plays wrong. It's not style to play bends that are either flat or sharp all of the time. There's a reason why pianos don't half notes in between each key.

Yeah I'm going to go ahead and assume you're trolling.

I have no guitar knowledge at all. To me it sounds fine. Of what I heard. I mean Ive listen to Sixx Am records and seem that AFD blu ray, saw him play live one in 09. Not once did I question his musicianship. I do remember seeing a video here where he was drunk or something. 

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Just now, wasted said:

I have no guitar knowledge at all. To me it sounds fine. Of what I heard. I mean Ive listen to Sixx Am records and seem that AFD blu ray, saw him play live one in 09. Not once did I question his musicianship. I do remember seeing a video here where he was drunk or something. 

I'm not trying to be an ass, honestly. It's just that like I said he's incapable of mastering the basics of music, and it's almost.. insulting to watch. I don't know if I could explain the difference, but take for example Robin Finck. Robin's style was sloppy, intentionally. I've seen Gary Moore do the same thing; sloppy, screaming bends. Gary Moore was also capable of the most incredible precision playing you'll ever see. DJ was just... bad. I don't know. Running out of ways to explain it :lol: I guess if you enjoyed his playing, good. But he's still not a good guitarist.

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12 minutes ago, MrSoftie said:

I'm not trying to be an ass, honestly. It's just that like I said he's incapable of mastering the basics of music, and it's almost.. insulting to watch. I don't know if I could explain the difference, but take for example Robin Finck. Robin's style was sloppy, intentionally. I've seen Gary Moore do the same thing; sloppy, screaming bends. Gary Moore was also capable of the most incredible precision playing you'll ever see. DJ was just... bad. I don't know. Running out of ways to explain it :lol: I guess if you enjoyed his playing, good. But he's still not a good guitarist.

I'm more assuming he's good because he's been in Motely, Sixx am and Guns. I'm not saying he's a legendary guitarist or a virtuoso. I think he seemed to have his moments like Ballad of Death or playing riff to Chi dem levitating above the drum riser. He's a showman. 

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27 minutes ago, MrSoftie said:

I'm not trying to be an ass, honestly. It's just that like I said he's incapable of mastering the basics of music, and it's almost.. insulting to watch. I don't know if I could explain the difference, but take for example Robin Finck. Robin's style was sloppy, intentionally. I've seen Gary Moore do the same thing; sloppy, screaming bends. Gary Moore was also capable of the most incredible precision playing you'll ever see. DJ was just... bad. I don't know. Running out of ways to explain it :lol: I guess if you enjoyed his playing, good. But he's still not a good guitarist.

Robin was sloppy intentionally? I'm not sure that's true and I'm a huge fan. Gary Moore had great chops, so maybe he did some stuff that was sloppy intentionally but for the most part, precise as fuck. Robin never had that kind of chops or Slash's technique.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 15.01.2017 at 4:42 AM, BlueJean Baby said:

https://youtu.be/bmSFIp17Ank

@whatashame check out the link above, same clip but it seems something was going on before the song started, Axl says something about they're trying to hurt me, you know its a conspiracy, a dumb  or fun spiracy and goes off and changes jackets...I tried to read Tommy's lips but the only word I could really make out was fuck, maybe don't fuck it up?? Sorry I can't post the youtube other than the link, having some sort of security issue with my tablet. ;)

 

as much as I understand, Axl said they [the band] wanted to hurt him, and it is a conspiracy - a Bon-spiracy, bikoz it was usually the time of the show to play ACDC's Riff Raff. It was suggested between the songs (not shown on DVD bikoz mostly all DVDs cut out the pauses between songs) but Axl disagreed.

so, I won't sing Bon Scott. It will hurt me tonight. My throat.

Shit like that

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Just now, whatashame said:

 

as much as I understand, Axl said they [the band] wanted to hurt him, and it is a conspiracy - a Bon-spiracy, bikoz it was usually the time of the show to play ACDC's Riff Raff. It was suggested between the songs (not shown on DVD bikoz mostly all DVDs cut out the pauses between songs) but Axl disagreed.

so, I won't sing Bon Scott. It will hurt me tonight. My throat.

Shit like that

OK that makes more sense:lol::lol::lol:

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