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Tommy Stinson: Chinese Democracy "kinda got yanked from Axl's hands a little bit prematurely"


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3 minutes ago, StrangerInThisTown said:

It amazes me it still hasn't been established in this forum that ludurgian is a troll. Might actually be a 13 year old with an Ipad.

But how can you say songs like Bad Obsession and Get In The Ring are bad? They are freaking awesome music, Slash and Izzy did a great jobs with the riffs and music. I understand people might not like it lyrically, but they perfectly capture the bands attitude and where they were at at that point. What other band than Guns would even have the balls to make a song like GITR? No one not even debaucherous Motley. Some call it politically incorrect or juvenile but Guns were never about that, it's the epitome of the GNR attitude and what the band is. Now Shotgun Blues, that's truly a terrible song and we have some very delusional people here who claim every Guns song is good.

People regularly point out how many GNR songs they don't like. Shit. How many topics have we had about how "UYI could easily be one album because there are so many bad songs"?? IMO, this people bitching just to bitch. Making something out of nothing, etc. 

1 minute ago, PappyTron said:

Sorry, Russ, I was just making a joke based on the fact that My World is always the song that gets slammed the most. I have no idea what his opinion on it is.

Went right over my head. I apologize. Carry on. Lol 

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7 hours ago, sofine11 said:

I don't think it's humanly possible for me to roll my eyes hard enough at the idea of Chi Dem's release being "premature". 

Oh my god yeah! They took more than enough time putting out that record...if Axl wasn't completely ready then boo freaking hoo Bill.

I bought the record at a best buy in Rochester ny THE DAY it came out...love the record to this day. But it wasn't worth waiting 15 years for, I'm sorry

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5 hours ago, Wagszilla said:

The initial juvenile reactions are predictable as the sun rising but I'm curious what Tommy meant.

I'd really like to hear Axl speak about Chinese Democracy and the Chinese Democracy saga more. He's an interesting guy.

I get the impression that the 2006 tour was partly the "let's get funding to finish the album" tour. The Guns N' Roses business likely wasn't doing too well. The realities of business are cold and harsh, a reality often shielded from the fans, and you wonder how much of that was in play.

There were no doubt countless miscalculations and poor decisions by Axl as well but the truth is likely much more complex. 

Yeah I'm not into the initial reaction from certain people tht react like "Well he sucks, hes bitter, he's butthurt, and completely wrong" before reading or listening and trying to understand the context of the situation. I'm personally always seen Tommy as a great friend to Axl and somebody who's been on his side and very loyal to him. That hasn't been changed today. I'm glad everybody's still friends, I hope Tommy gets to meet Slash and I could live with him showing up and playing a song if it happened. Wish the guy the best and I'm glad he's been a class act about everything.

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4 hours ago, RussTCB said:

I think what we got was a leaks record and it was the leaks that forced it's release. Oh that and the years and millions of dollars spent on it.

Agreed. So I guess we can thank Kevin or Sqwerl or whoever did that? :P

Honorable mention to the Dr Pepper promotion. A free Dr Pepper to everyone in America? Seems so unrealistic, I could see it putting Axl over and helping things as well.

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8 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

People regularly point out how many GNR songs they don't like. Shit. How many topics have we had about how "UYI could easily be one album because there are so many bad songs"?? IMO, this people bitching just to bitch. Making something out of nothing, etc. 

It's nothing new, been hearing this same bitching for about 15 years. 

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2 hours ago, Blackstar said:

You know, Axl and especially Duff like a lot of this "shitty" music. Duff even played it.

And now, Duff, Axl, And even Slash play 6 songs from what SOME people think is a shitty, overproduced record. Yup, the fans don't like the album but Slash does since he volunteered to play 6 songs from Chinese democracy, maybe even more.

Weird how that just happened to work out, didn't it?

Edited by Billsfan
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What bothers me about the fact Axl wanted to spend more time on the album is the fact we know it's not like he was working on it every day from 1997-2008. It's not like he actually worked on new music every day straight for 11 years. If he worked on a new album for a few months consistently it could be out in 6 months. Music isn't a priority for him, neither are we fans. Love the guy but its true. 

If it were up to him, CD would still most likely be in limbo.

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8 minutes ago, AxlRoseCDII said:

What bothers me about the fact Axl wanted to spend more time on the album is the fact we know it's not like he was working on it every day from 1997-2008. It's not like he actually worked on new music every day straight for 11 years. If he worked on a new album for a few months consistently it could be out in 6 months. Music isn't a priority for him, neither are we fans. Love the guy but its true. 

If it were up to him, CD would still most likely be in limbo.

It really sucks he has to feel everything must be god-level until it's "good enough" to be released. And the eternal paradox is you still have turds like Rhiad on CD who make My World look like Coma.

Edited by StrangerInThisTown
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1 hour ago, Jane M. said:

That's horrible. Thank goodness that piece of shit and It taste good, don't it weren't included in any album. IMO.

No not your typical songs, maybe done more for the shock value.... I find them kind of humorous :smiley-confused2:

I'm female but not easily offended by anything.

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My guess would be that Tommy wouldn't like the more synthetic side of CD - If the World, Scraped, Prostitute. He wanted less layers and thought the Beavan record was fine. 

CD GNR in general has such broad scope it's hard to imagine one musician would like everything. But the beauty of GNR is you have Pitman and Tommy in the same band. 

Even Izzy and Slash have these little digs. I've never heard Izzy being enthusiastic about Nov Rain. I don't think either Izzy or Slash were pleased with how UYI was produced at the time. It's all a struggle and everyone wants something different. 

It's crazy to think one cd would be perfect for everyone. Maybe you can find some but to expect Tommy or anyone to completely love every track on every GNR album seems unrealistic. Even AFD there's still some weaker stuff there but I still like it. Not every GNR song is a 10 to me, there's 7-10 range. Maybe why I'm a fan. 

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28 minutes ago, Jane M. said:
1 hour ago, Apollo said:

Cornchucker. 

That's horrible. Thank goodness that piece of shit and It taste good, don't it weren't included in any album. IMO.

I like Cornshucker! It can almost always cheer me up when I hear it. The first time I heard it my reaction was something liked What the...? What? Really?  I find it funny/fun. :)

I wouldn't want it on an album by any means. It just floating around on the internet is perfect for that song.

 

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18 minutes ago, wasted said:

My guess would be that Tommy wouldn't like the more synthetic side of CD - If the World, Scraped, Prostitute.

Tommy did say Prostitute was on the level of SCOM or something like that before the album came out. Thought it was worth mentioning.

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9 minutes ago, Rovim said:

I agree in general, but Tommy said Prostitute was on the level of SCOM or something like that before the album came out.

I don't see anything logical about holding that against him, even though I completely disagree with that analysis. I mean, what was he supposed to say? "Yeah Chinese Democracy, it won't be as good as the old GNR material but, we gave it ur best" especially after all the effort that was put into it? It just goes with promoting the material you created and probably worked hard on. It was like when Dizzy said in 2002 about that lineup being better than the old, and like how now he'll say this lineup is the best they've ever had. He's not necessarily lying, he just believes in the lineup and is promoting it. Not like he has any say in it, it's selling the product you have. Just something I had to get off my chest...

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4 minutes ago, Billsfan said:

I don't see anything logical about holding that against him, even though I completely disagree with that analysis. I mean, what was he supposed to say? "Yeah Chinese Democracy, it won't be as good as the old GNR material but, we gave it ur best" especially after all the effort that was put into it? It just goes with promoting the material you created and probably worked hard on. It was like when Dizzy said in 2002 about that lineup being better than the old, and like how now he'll say this lineup is the best they've ever had. He's not necessarily lying, he just believes in the lineup and is promoting it. Not like he has any say in it, it's selling the product you have. Just something I had to get off my chest...

lol I'm not holding it against him. And I think it was really what he thought about Prostitute. We know he wasn't a Gn'R fan, so it's logical he didn't think SCOM was infinitely better than Prostitute or some shit.

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32 minutes ago, Rovim said:

Tommy did say Prostitute was on the level of SCOM or something like that before the album came out. Thought it was worth mentioning.

I was guessing really based on his comments about layers. But really it's more like his magnanimous opinion which we are over analysing. 

It's really the yanked from him early comment that is more interesting. I thought that was more the booklet not the songs? 

Axl said they switched put a version of a song at the last minute, so maybe he did have some changes that he didn't get to do. The label rushed it to Best buy, did the deal and dropped the ball. That Azzof was trying to get Slash to tour it shows how crazy everything was. 

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24 minutes ago, wasted said:

I was guessing really based on his comments about layers. But really it's more like his magnanimous opinion which we are over analysing. 

It's really the yanked from him early comment that is more interesting. I thought that was more the booklet not the songs? 

Axl said they switched put a version of a song at the last minute, so maybe he did have some changes that he didn't get to do. The label rushed it to Best buy, did the deal and dropped the ball. That Azzof was trying to get Slash to tour it shows how crazy everything was. 

Read the interview again just now. I think Tommy dislikes some tunes, but that could have been the case for a long time now, but he was talking more about him thinking Axl still wasn't satisfied with the music on Chinese close to it's release so in that regard it was released prematurely and that was fueled by Azzof and the label.

Maybe if it was up to Tommy it wouldn't have had so many layers and he would have released the 1999 version of it, rawer or at least something close to the initial version of Chinese.

And when it comes to Tommy's preferences, I think we're also talking about song selection. Tommy would have probably dropped some tunes that got released in favor of material he preferred, perhaps even tunes they didn't finish in time for release that he considered to be stronger material.

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8 minutes ago, Rovim said:

Read the interview again just now. I think Tommy dislikes some tunes, but that could have been the case for a long time now, but he was talking more about him thinking Axl still wasn't satisfied with the music on Chinese close to it's release so in that regard it was released prematurely and that was fueled by Azzof and the label.

Maybe if it was up to Tommy it wouldn't have had so many layers and he would have released the 1999 version of it, rawer or at least something close to the initial version of Chinese.

And when it comes to Tommy's preferences, I think we're also talking about song selection. Tommy would have probably dropped some tunes that got released in favor of material he preferred, perhaps even tunes they didn't finish in time for release that he considered to be stronger material.

Maybe Tommy has some punk rock songs on CD II. Maybe Going Down is one he was hoping. 

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10 hours ago, double talkin jive mfkr said:

totally, all in all axl is not a supreme songwriter - he is a supreme frontman 

the title for songwriting goes to none other than IZZY STRADDLIN 

And that's why he does so well on his own.

Sincerely i like not even one post gnr izzy song (at least none that i have listened to) whilst i do like chi dem. 

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3 hours ago, Apollo said:

Seriously - what's the point of saying that? It just paints guy as a crazy fan-boy who isn't capable of having an intelligent conversation or debate about GnR. 

"I think every GnR song is great" - that's a valid statement. Just like Tommy's comments that he doesn't like every song is valid. Music is all about personal preference. 

But to make a statement of fact like "GnR hasn't written a bad song" is just silly. You are confusing your personal preference with what is actual a fact. 

Silkworms. Cornchucker. Shotgun Blues. Blood in the Water. Anything Goes. My World. Scraped. So Fine. Bad Obsession. Shadow of your love. Too much Too Soon. Ain't going down. Back of Bitch. Get in the Ring. These are all bad songs. 

The fact that Axl chooses to play so many covers pretty much proved the point that he isn't happy with his entire catalog. 

But, do you realize that by saying "these are all bad songs", you are also stating an opinion as a fact, right?

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UYI I & II  were an attempt to clear out the vault. According to Slash's book, Axl wanted to release everything they had up to that point. So, yeah, there're some less than perfect tracks. I think of those records like the Beatles White Album:  some are masterpieces and some are throwaway tracks. The White Album is still a classic though, just like the UYI records.

as for Tommy, I've never met a Replacements fan that also loved GnR. Not saying they aren't out there, just that they're rare. It makes perfect sense that Tommy isn't in love with every GnR track. Big deal. Are any of you guys musicians? Don't hammer a man because he took a gig.

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2 hours ago, Billsfan said:

And now, Duff, Axl, And even Slash play 6 songs from what SOME people think is a shitty, overproduced record. Yup, the fans don't like the album but Slash does since he volunteered to play 6 songs from Chinese democracy, maybe even more.

Weird how that just happened to work out, didn't it?

Because the songs are good, it's the production that sucks. Can you not see the difference between an over-produced multitrack recording and a live performance?

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