Jump to content

Tommy Stinson: Chinese Democracy "kinda got yanked from Axl's hands a little bit prematurely"


Recommended Posts

Tommy is right - no GN'R record is perfect by any means. Nope, not even Appetite. Sorry. That said, Chinese Democracy isn't a dud either :rolleyes: Commercially, maybe, but that's not the albums fault. That's lack of promotion and basically just ignorance of people (between just not knowing fuck all about GN'R/CD, or the whole "It's not GN'R without Slash so I'm not accepting it" shit). It's a great album.

As for premature, yeah obviously it sounds silly and the album should have been out years before (though I've always said it should have come out in 05/06 when the iron was really hot and Axl was in near-perfect form), but Axl and the band probably still felt it was premature since something about it in their eyes wasn't finished. Not to mention the fine details of the release, including promotion and even just the booklet/artwork.

I think Tommy has been extremely honest and humble while doing so in any GN'R related interviews/questions since he's left the band. I like him more now than I ever have.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

28 minutes ago, Black Sabbath said:

Tommy is right - no GN'R record is perfect by any means. Nope, not even Appetite. Sorry. That said, Chinese Democracy isn't a dud either :rolleyes: Commercially, maybe, but that's not the albums fault. That's lack of promotion and basically just ignorance of people (between just not knowing fuck all about GN'R/CD, or the whole "It's not GN'R without Slash so I'm not accepting it" shit). It's a great album.

As for premature, yeah obviously it sounds silly and the album should have been out years before (though I've always said it should have come out in 05/06 when the iron was really hot and Axl was in near-perfect form), but Axl and the band probably still felt it was premature since something about it in their eyes wasn't finished. Not to mention the fine details of the release, including promotion and even just the booklet/artwork.

I think Tommy has been extremely honest and humble while doing so in any GN'R related interviews/questions since he's left the band. I like him more now than I ever have.

Yeah, Anything Goes is a total dud. But everything else is perfect. Think About You completely ties the album together - don't you agree?  

:takethat: 

 

But yeah, I agree with Tommy. It sounds ridiculous to say an album that was more than a decade in the making was released prematurely, but there are definitely some bits that could have used some touching up. Regardless, it is my second favorite GN'R album still.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, StrangerInThisTown said:

It really sucks he has to feel everything must be god-level until it's "good enough" to be released. And the eternal paradox is you still have turds like Rhiad on CD who make My World look like Coma.

Rhiad is a qualified turd. I love everything Axl has created but I can't accept that song.

Edited by The Holographic Universe
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wonder if the label or whoever got more material, maybe like the double cd Axl saw, but they put together a Best of or most GNR cd for Best buy. 

Axl did say he was happy with CD, so I'm not sure what Tommy is talking about and how important it is. He seems to talk a lot about record label interference. I wonder why that is. 

I hope we get the Director's Cut of CD one day. 

Edited by wasted
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, wasted said:

I wonder if the label or whoever got more material, maybe like the double cd Axl saw, but they put together a Best of or most GNR cd for Best buy. 

Axl did say he was happy with CD, so I'm not sure what Tommy is talking about and how important it is. He seems to talk a lot about record label interference. I wonder why that is. 

I hope we get the Director's Cut of CD one day. 

You've got this fucking record already, why not move on with new music instead of a remixed CD, a director's cut and a red handed cover all with of the same album. It's time to bury that shit.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Free Bird said:

You've got this fucking record already, why not move on with new music instead of a remixed CD, a director's cut and a red handed cover all with of the same album. It's time to bury that shit.

I'm fine with moving on. Especially Slash and Duff back. 

I said one day I hope I can hear the full 2 disc album and remixes.

The fact Axl brought it up after the release of CD and then again in 2014, I don't know it just keeps coming back. 

I don't see it as mutually exclusive. They could do a totally new album, then release CD II later. 

Edited by wasted
Link to comment
Share on other sites

''Anything Goes'' is a bit of 1980's fluff, Appetite's only weak link. I do not understand why Tommy Stinson struggles so manfully to recall a flawless album as there are many throughout musical history; all one needs to do is recall The Stones' glorious late-'60s - early-70s four album run (Beggars - Exile), Little Richard's debut, or practically any album by N**l Y***g (self-censored so his name does not install the customary wrath of the moderation department). We can also look at Curtis Mayfield's discography, e.g Super Fly and Roots, and find flawless masterpieces. I'm sure others could cite Floyd, Zeppelin - or indeed albums within Tommy's own genre such as Nevermind the Bollocks and Raw Power.

PS

''Riad'' may be a 'turd' but ''If the World'' is up there also, a song wallowing in its own inconsequentiality - this was what he spent millions and ten years of his life upon, a Latino salsa song? The title track also has some of Rose's most laughable lyrics and a riff so excruciatingly dull it listens to The Archers.

Edited by DieselDaisy
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Black Sabbath said:

Tommy is right - no GN'R record is perfect by any means. Nope, not even Appetite. Sorry. That said, Chinese Democracy isn't a dud either :rolleyes: Commercially, maybe, but that's not the albums fault. That's lack of promotion and basically just ignorance of people (between just not knowing fuck all about GN'R/CD, or the whole "It's not GN'R without Slash so I'm not accepting it" shit). It's a great album.

As for premature, yeah obviously it sounds silly and the album should have been out years before (though I've always said it should have come out in 05/06 when the iron was really hot and Axl was in near-perfect form), but Axl and the band probably still felt it was premature since something about it in their eyes wasn't finished. Not to mention the fine details of the release, including promotion and even just the booklet/artwork.

I think Tommy has been extremely honest and humble while doing so in any GN'R related interviews/questions since he's left the band. I like him more now than I ever have.

Best post in this thread! 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, PappyTron said:

Black Sabbath, the album, was recorded and mixed in two days. Two....days! Genius does not take years and years of twiddling knobs to get the right sound. Just plug in the guitars and mic and let it rip. Heck, Please Please Me was recorded from start to finish in an afternoon. Love Me Do>Scraped.

This right here.

I particularly like the Sabbath example, but so many of the truly classic albums were recorded in a day or less.

All that tampering didn't do the songs on Chinese Democracy any good.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Considering the album was recorded mostly between 2000-2004 and there were 32 songs they were working on, I wonder how much tinkering there really was. On the other hand, Axl as the Stanley Kubrick of rock is fun. Tommy said he re-recorded his parts 6-7 times. Not really sure. It wasn't recorded in 2 weeks. I'd love to hear that version

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, wasted said:

Considering the album was recorded mostly between 2000-2004 and there were 32 songs they were working on, I wonder how much tinkering there really was. On the other hand, Axl as the Stanley Kubrick of rock is fun. Tommy said he re-recorded his parts 6-7 times. Not really sure. It wasn't recorded in 2 weeks. I'd love to hear that version

 

 

Maybe Axl said he always viewed Chinese as a double album, you know... 30 tunes mixed cause that is the album. I just can't ignore what Axl said about the music being 100% what he wanted to release, and that the second half was completed "for a while now".

I'd like to hear all the versions. I do believe Axl is like Kubrick. He does that. He tinkers. A lot. Catcher demo, the 1999 leaks.

Edited by Rovim
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Rovim said:

Maybe Axl said he always viewed Chinese as an album, you know... 30 tunes mixed cause that is the album. I just can't ignore what Axl said about the music being 100% what he wanted to release, and that the second half was completed "for a while now".

I'd like to hear all the versions. I do believe Axl is like Kubrick. He does that. He tinkers. A lot. Catcher demo, the 1999 leaks.

So what did the red tape do? Just pick the most accessible songs and cut out the Silkworms, orchestra songs? Or was it more like okay these leaks and Shacklers/If the World, Scraped/Sorry. Then save this stuff for Slash on the follow up. Then Axl goes rogue, pops up with Dj to tour Asia. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, Silent Jay said:

it seemed like still Axl wasn’t happy with it and so it kinda got yanked from his hands a little bit prematurely

IT TOOK 11 (E-LE-VEN) YEARS AND WAS ALREADY RUINED BY HORRIBLE OVERPRODUCTION!!

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, wasted said:

So what did the red tape do? Just pick the most accessible songs and cut out the Silkworms, orchestra songs? Or was it more like okay these leaks and Shacklers/If the World, Scraped/Sorry. Then save this stuff for Slash on the follow up. Then Axl goes rogue, pops up with Dj to tour Asia. 

 

I don't presume to know what happened, so what you're saying could have been the case - Axl and/or the label could've decided that the shit that got leaked had to be released and they've made adjustments with the rest of the album.

This is what I remember happening: Axl said in the Trunk interview after Catcher leaked he wasn't sure if it was gonna make it on Chinese. Was that cause he didn't know if he wanted it released on Chinese 1, or was it because it was pending label approval?

Axl replaced Atlas with This I Love. If he can do that cause Robin made a convincing case, does that mean he decides which tunes get released? I don't know if it even makes sense to me he can't release the tunes he wants to release, but that is possible I guess. Maybe the label decides number of albums, like it's gotta be just one disk.

Could it be that the label just said: "no, no way we're gonna release a double album"? or was it Axl that just thought it would be a good idea to save half for later cause he truly believed he was gonna release another album 1 to 2 years after Chinese got released?

Does the label even have that kind of power over Axl? that they can just tell him which tunes are too out there to release right now? and why was Axl so pissed off and didn't promote or tour for a year? I thought it was because Azoff was a shitstain and wanted to reunite the old line up, not because Chinese itself.

Hard to believe him and the label would hold off on the tunes, saving some for Slash.

Edited by Rovim
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, Mendez said:

I, for one, did miss the 1970s. What are some songs with riffs like scraped?

Dude, listen to Black Sabbath, Budgie, UFO, Zep, Uriah Heep, Mountain, Rush, King Crimson (73-74), Nazareth, Montrose, early Grand Funk, BTO, Original Bad Company, Free, Jericho (1972), Thin Lizzy, Golden Earring, Deep Purple etc. if you want to hear badass riffs.

It's cool that you like Scraped and you think it's badass, but there is so much out there for you to discover..which is better.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

57 minutes ago, Rovim said:

I don't presume to know what happened, so what you're saying could have been the case - Axl and/or the label could've decided that the shit that got leaked had to be released and they've made adjustments with the rest of the album.

This is what I remember happening: Axl said in the Trunk interview after Catcher leaked he wasn't sure if it was gonna make it on Chinese. Was that cause he didn't know if he wanted it released on Chinese 1, or was it because it was pending label approval?

Axl replaced Atlas with This I Love. If he can do that cause Robin made a convincing case, does that mean he decides which tunes get released? I don't know if it even makes sense to me he can't release the tunes he wants to release, but that is possible I guess. Maybe the label decides number of albums, like it's gotta be just one disk.

Could it be that the label just said: "no, no way we're gonna release a double album"? or was it Axl that just thought it would be a good idea to save half for later cause he truly believed he was gonna release another album 1 to 2 years after Chinese got released?

Do the label even have that kind of power over Axl? that they can just tell him which tunes are too out there to release right now? and why was Axl so pissed off and didn't promote or tour for a year? I thought it was because Azoff was a shitstain and wanted to reunite the old line up, not because Chinese itself.

Hard to believe him and the label would hold off on the tunes, saving some for Slash.

It's one of the rumors on Chinese Whispers. The Blackout rumor. Part of the Reunion plan was to have Slash tour CD, like he's doing now, but then get him on the follow up. 

Beta is quoted as saying the songs are with the label and they are deciding what to release. 

In 2007 a pic of a tracklisting with Thyme, The General, Seven, Atlas Shrugged was leaked. 

There's not much chance of them wanting to pay to distribute/promo 2 cds. And would be bad business with Best buy willing to pay 14 mil for 1 cd. Axl hoped to get it out the following year. But CD wasn't successful enough. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, sonofnazareth said:

Dude, listen to Black Sabbath, Budgie, UFO, Zep, Uriah Heep, Mountain, Rush, King Crimson (73-74), Nazareth, Montrose, early Grand Funk, BTO, Original Bad Company, Free, Jericho (1972), Thin Lizzy, Golden Earring, Deep Purple etc. if you want to hear badass riffs.

It's cool that you like Scraped and you think it's badass, but there is so much out there for you to discover..which is better.

If you want more stuff like Scraped I'd listen to some Prodigy records. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Nahh.

or Evil Empire by RATM. Costanzo in the house. 

Did GNR invent Sub bass? Is that a Pitman innovation? I've never heard of it before. Sounds like something Jeremy Clarkson has installed in his Jag. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...