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GNR Women's Discussion - Part 2


alfierose

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5 minutes ago, Frey said:

It absolutely can, actually. It's not unheard of for people who have suffered brain damage/head trauma of some kind or have a tumor affecting their brain to undergo changes in personality. Sometimes these changes are subtle and small, in extrme cases people end up with a completely different personality their loved ones don't recognize (and that often includes chnages for the worse). It's an interesting topic and there's lots of medical literature out there if you want to read up on it.

Not saying this is the case with Steven, because honestly, I don't really care about this conversation, and whether Steven actually has some kind of brain damage (which is definitey possible and technically speaking, his speech issues do at least indicate damage in areas of the brain responsible for speach, as someone already said) or not. Steven has never been the sharpest tool in the shed and was always rather naive and immature. It might just be a case of him wasting years of his life in a drug haze and never having grown up. Although... isn't his mother his legal guardian or something? That also seems to indicate that he's not entirely capable of taking care of his own affairs for whatever reasons.

Also, I disagree that there's a difference between speculating about someone having brain damage and specualting about someon's mental health. At the end of the day, it's all just that- speculation. You seem to think assuming someone might suffer from brain damage is somehow expressing something inherently negative or offensive towards a person, much more so than speculating about someone's mental health for example. Which I don't see at all. Plenty of people suffer from brain damage of some kind, just as many people suffer from mental health issues. There's nothing inherently shameful in einther of these issues (or at least there shouldn't be), and they're equally valid topics of discussion as far as I'm concerned.

EDIT: @Blackstar Didn't see your post before posting. :lol: Needless to say I agree.

 

 

 

Yes this! 

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3 minutes ago, Fansince88 said:

I  read Deanna Adler's book and there was an addendum written after the Nashville show, but before SA.  This is what was said:

"...,Steven, who had strained some back muscles practicing and was under doctor's orders not to get back  on the drums until he was healed completely It soon became obvious that Steven was not going to be asked to rejoin the band for the kick off of their North American tour. His lower back had not healed completely  and it must have been extremely difficult for him to watch GNR perform in city after city to rave reviews without him".  

I only listened to the recent interview once, so I don't remember exactly what he said, but when he talked about Duff calling him to tell him that he would not be part of the tour, I thought that perhaps Duff was calling in an empathetic way like, "sorry, we can't wait any longer for you to heal and we have to move on  with rehearsals etc". 

I'm not knocking anyone else's speculation, but felt the need to point out that the Adler camp seemed to feel that the back issue was the major reason he was not on North American tour.  As for  whatever happened in SA, who knows...

Ahhh...so now at least there is this piece to add to the puzzle. Thank you for posting this.

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2 hours ago, Rocketqueen76 said:

@nonok You're a smart cookie....;)I'm sure you get it.

Well, I don't feel the need to turn any participation in this thread into a drama, so I was wondering why you were sending subliminal messages via songs we all know. :lol: Anyway, I completely agree with you and @Frey about Adler. It's not impossible that our assumptions are true since there are many examples of brain-damaged people after serious injuries.

Although I think that it's far more simple than that - Steven's just an idiot, period. And before anyone jumps at me, being a little boneheaded doesn't mean he isn't a nice person. Quite the opposite actually - since ignorance is bliss, the more intelligent people tend to be not as bubbly and open-hearted. Again, generally speaking.

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37 minutes ago, Frey said:

It absolutely can, actually. It's not unheard of for people who have suffered brain damage/head trauma of some kind or have a tumor affecting their brain to undergo changes in personality. Sometimes these changes are subtle and small, in extreme cases people end up with a completely different personality their loved ones don't recognize (and that often includes changes for the worse). It's an interesting topic and there's lots of medical literature out there if you want to read up on it.

Not saying this is the case with Steven, because honestly, I don't really care about this conversation, and whether Steven actually has some kind of brain damage (which is definitey possible and technically speaking, his speech issues do at least indicate damage in areas of the brain responsible for speech, as someone already said) or not. Steven has never been the sharpest tool in the shed and was always rather naive and immature. It might just be a case of him wasting years of his life in a drug haze and never having grown up. Although... isn't his mother his legal guardian or something? That also seems to indicate that he's not entirely capable of taking care of his own affairs for whatever reasons.

Also, I disagree that there's a difference between speculating about someone having brain damage and specualting about someon's mental health. At the end of the day, it's all just that- speculation. You seem to think assuming someone might suffer from brain damage is somehow expressing something inherently negative or offensive towards a person, much more so than speculating about someone's mental health for example. Which I don't see at all. Plenty of people suffer from brain damage of some kind, just as many people suffer from mental health issues. There's nothing inherently shameful in einther of these issues (or at least there shouldn't be), and they're equally valid topics of discussion as far as I'm concerned.

Reading medical literature won't turn me into a doctor :rolleyes: and I have not denied that he may not have some sort of brain damage. He said himself he had a mild stroke that provoked that problem in his speech.

The comment that unleashed my comment was different though. They were talking about brain damage to an extent it makes Steven behave like a 5 years old child and be this and that and change his mind all the time, loving one and the other and blah blah blah. That's what Im refering to.

I fail to see how brain damage can be directly related to that behavior because I know a lot of people who never had a stroke or are drug users and they still show some sort of immature behavior at adult age. That's what Im questioning... how someone can be so fiercely at claiming something like that when we don't know what are the real consequences of his health problems.

About the previous speculation on Axl's mental health and blah blah READ MY RESPONSES ABOVE. Im tired of repeating myself and tired of people like you jumping at me just for the sake of  it.

READ WHAT I SAY I BEG YOU PLEASE. :book:

Bye!

 

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1 minute ago, nonok said:

Well, I don't feel the need to turn any participation in this thread into a drama, so I was wondering why you were sending subliminal messages via songs we all know. :lol: Anyway, I completely agree with you and @Frey about Adler. It's not impossible that our assumptions are true since there are many examples of brain-damaged people after serious injuries.

Although I think that it's far more simple than that - Steven's just an idiot, period. And before anyone jumps at me, being a little boneheaded doesn't mean he isn't a nice person. Quite the opposite actually - since ignorance is bliss, the more intelligent people tend to be not as bubbly and open-hearted. Again, generally speaking.

LOL....see I knew you understood. And yes I totally agree with what you said about more intelligent people sometimes being not so nice.  I know plenty of people like that.

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1 hour ago, killuridols said:

Yes. Actually we don't know personally any of them nor interact daily with any of them, so.... your point?

Strokes can cause a lot of things but at the same time not everybody who gets a stroke will have their whole persona changed. Steven also said he had a mild stroke that is what has affected his speech. We don't know what other physical or psychological consequences this had on him and it's very hard to "guess" a personality change through a radio interview.

IMO, he sounds pretty coherent, pretty clear in his mind. He has responded every question made by the interviewer and the whole conversation flows smooth. He makes jokes and at the same time tries to be objective with his ex-bandmates. Please enlighten me how this can be labeled as brain damage or childish behavior.

Also, it's sad to see a person in medicine using some expressions and descriptions to describe children, like every child is a brat or irascible.

Each person here is responsible for what they say or type. I don't take responsability for what other people post. I am responsible for my own words and yes, we can give OPINIONS on a lot of things, including our perceptions on the behavior of the band members. But it's very different to come here to diagnose someone and make determining statements like what was posted before. No serious doctor or person working in medicine would EVER risk themselves and their reputation by diagnosing someone else online. This is very irresponsible and unethical. So whether someone here is a doctor or not, and they do such thing, they won't have my respect and I will call on their BS if I have to.

My point: Trying to assume with what I know about what can be behind constant refuse of Steven as full time player in rejoined GNR.

I see parallels with what I know and experienced and try to describe how I am thinking.

Mild (I did not assume this myself ever, you see?) is pretty describing. BTW you can see glimpses of what I simplify as 5yo bro when he talks about what he sees as injustice, to make an example (try older interviews, more evident). I never said brain damage (unspecific term, and also great Pink Floyd song) cause drastic change of character (I said he is lucky with his personality, which does not change, just "sharpens") or morals. It "changes" feelings that it...fuuu...becomes huger part of processing and expressing what happens inside and around. I won`t describe it more to you, I don`t wish you actual experience with such in your near ones, you will find out what I am talking about. Even with all the love, often pretty annoying. For me fair treat means that I do everything with respect of who that person is and what he is capable not "do everything to make him happy". 

Brain rewires and learns new paths. Brain cells have almost no capability to heal, so, covered by rewired ones, the damage maintain. Compensated, the person is like you describe from latest TV interview. Shattered he will cry that you are the worst person ever or so and next day feel bad about it, because he actually loves you (one of latest interviews). Grown up 50-something usually don`t do this.

1 hour ago, killuridols said:

People who are missing a leg, the two legs or their arms and they have become athletes and won prizes in competitions.

Have you heard of Stephen Hawking? He's got motor neurone disease YET he's one of the most brilliant minds in this world.

Brain is unique. You cannot compare it with any other organ. Brain function affect the essence of personality (whole consciousness is brain produced. Speech impairment is surface, there is depth. Trap is that brain is completely aware of body damage, but not own damage.). Pretending everything is okay and reintroduce person without respect to actual abilities at best will cause some confusion without further damage. You are still you even if you are completely paralyzed. Motor neuron is no brain cell. Stephen Hawking can have no motor neuron working, but his brain neurons are perfectly fit and allow him to explore universe.

2 hours ago, killuridols said:

As far as I know, we don't have an IQ test of Axl to be so determining when saying he has an "uncommon kind of high intelligence". A lot of people assume he's above average intelligence but I really don't know based on what exactly.

If you see someone as intelligent, you ask for like Mensa confirmation? If most people you meet describe you as intelligent/smart/gifted, you can go get tested and you will probably pass. By my opinion people feel if someone is more intelligent than others. Also street smart people pass Mensa test, but are not as bold as uncommonly gifted ones. Let`s assume that if almost everyone sees Axl as highly intelligent (no doubts about his talent in arts), there is something on it. Intelligence does not mean that you do right decisions and your life is easier. Mensa test as best valued is still mere collection of matrices to solve and how you are good in it. 

Sorry, English is not my native language. 

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37 minutes ago, killuridols said:

Reading medical literature won't turn me into a doctor :rolleyes: and I have not denied that he may not have some sort of brain damage. He said himself he had a mild stroke that provoked that problem in his speech.

The comment that unleashed my comment was different though. They were talking about brain damage to an extent it makes Steven behave like a 5 years old child and be this and that and change his mind all the time, loving one and the other and blah blah blah. That's what Im refering to.

I fail to see how brain damage can be directly related to that behavior because I know a lot of people who never had a stroke or are drug users and they still show some sort of immature behavior at adult age. That's what Im questioning... how someone can be so fiercely at claiming something like that when we don't know what are the real consequences of his health problems.

About the previous speculation on Axl's mental health and blah blah READ MY RESPONSES ABOVE. Im tired of repeating myself and tired of people like you jumping at me just for the sake of  it.

READ WHAT I SAY I BEG YOU PLEASE. :book:

Bye!

I did not jump at you (nor did I see anyone else jump at you), I/they simply disagreed with your opinion(s). Also, I did not say reading medical literature will turn you into a doctor :question: I suggested some reading material that might be of interest to you since you seem passionate about this topic.

 

42 minutes ago, nonok said:

Well, I don't feel the need to turn any participation in this thread into a drama, so I was wondering why you were sending subliminal messages via songs we all know. :lol: Anyway, I completely agree with you and @Frey about Adler. It's not impossible that our assumptions are true since there are many examples of brain-damaged people after serious injuries.

Although I think that it's far more simple than that - Steven's just an idiot, period. And before anyone jumps at me, being a little boneheaded doesn't mean he isn't a nice person. Quite the opposite actually - since ignorance is bliss, the more intelligent people tend to be not as bubbly and open-hearted. Again, generally speaking.

Honestly, I think this is one of the things no one likes to say, but it's also one of the main reasons that affected Steven's relationship with the other guys imo. Axl, Slash, Duff and Izzy are all reasonably intelligent individuals (at least by the standards of 80s metal dudes, which is not saying much, but still :lol:) and Steven is... not. They can all run circles around him mentally and I get the impression he was frustrating to some of the other guys or that they even felt he was kind of pathetic.

This doesn't really apply to Izzy, because Izzy is a nice guy and always seemed genuinely fond of Steven (though he came across as kind of patronizing as well sometimes). But Axl, Duff and especially Slash? Their frustration with and their disdain for Steven shines through very clearly in old and new interviews and in the way they treat him. At the same time, I can't really blame Slash for kind of "outgrowing" Steven. If I were Slash, I'd prefer to have Duff as my best buddy as well. They're much more on the same wave-length (both intellectually speaking and in other ways), than Slash and Steven are.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Whiskey Rose said:

I don't know where I read it, but I did read somewhere that the guy told Axl that he saved AC/DC.. so I guess as long as you talk about either Slash or AC/DC to him, he'll smile. Not sure what I think about that, but anyway, Good tip for if any of us ever meet him! lol.

Yeah...I am the one who posted that pic here with that guy's quote of what he said to make Axl smile...forgot what page it is on. But he basically just thanked Axl for saving AC/DC and that brought the smile. :) 

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Just now, marlingrl03 said:

Yeah...I am the one who posted that pic here with that guy's quote of what he said to make Axl smile...forgot what page it is on. But he basically just thanked Axl for saving AC/DC and that brought the smile. :) 

I really enjoy chemistry between Axl and Angus

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4 minutes ago, marlingrl03 said:

Yeah...I am the one who posted that pic here with that guy's quote of what he said to make Axl smile...forgot what page it is on. But he basically just thanked Axl for saving AC/DC and that brought the smile. :) 

I should have known it was you marlingrl! You always have the best pics.

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8 minutes ago, marlingrl03 said:

Yeah...I am the one who posted that pic here with that guy's quote of what he said to make Axl smile...forgot what page it is on. But he basically just thanked Axl for saving AC/DC and that brought the smile. :) 

Well thank you for solving that mystery for me. And you do always find the best pictures!  :thumbsup:

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Just now, Blackstar said:

Speaking of Axl and Angus Young...

While the GnR world is preoccupied with the Steven drama, AC/DC fans have their own drama trying to figure out why Angus likes Axl so much:

"Why Angus never sent flowers to Brian?" :lol:

Honestly, I've been wondering the same.

Granted, I don't know shit about AC/DC, but from what I've gathered it's extremely out of character for Angus to be acting the way he is with Axl (being so affectionate, flowers, surprises, gifts, guest appearances, etc.). Maybe he really does have some paternal feeling for Axl or something, weird as it would be. Or he really wants him to stick around for future AC/DC stuff or other projects (please no).

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Frey said:

Honestly, I've been wondering the same.

Granted, I don't know shit about AC/DC, but from what I've gathered it's extremely out of character for Angus to be acting the way he is with Axl (being so affectionate, flowers, surprises, gifts, guest appearances, etc.). Maybe he really does have some paternal feeling for Axl or something, weird as it would be. Or he really wants him to stick around for future AC/DC stuff or other projects (please no).

 

 

 

Other than liking their music I know nothing about AC/DC but weren't they going to lose a ton of money if Axl didn't step in and cover the rest of the tour? That could be why. He did kind of save their butt so to speak.:shrugs:

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Does Angus have children? If not, I think that paternal thing has a lot of merit. Remember where he knocks Axl's hat off, goes to pick it up, and axl kicks it out of the way like "don't worry about it" and Angus hugs him? I love that moment so much..there is just such affection between them. I don't even mind it's not a GnR moment, cause I want everybody to love Axl. lol. I'm sure @Andy14 made a great gif of that.

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5 minutes ago, Kris_1989 said:

Other than liking their music I know nothing about AC/DC but weren't they going to lose a ton of money if Axl didn't step in and cover the rest of the tour? That could be why. He did kind of save their butt so to speak.:shrugs:

Yeah, but the huge amount of money he received for doing that should be enough to show their gratitude imo. No need to really go the extra mile the way he's doing if he's just thankful for saving their ass.

Just now, Whiskey Rose said:

Does Angus have children? If not, I think that paternal thing has a lot of merit. Remember where he knocks Axl's hat off, goes to pick it up, and axl kicks it out of the way like "don't worry about it" and Angus hugs him? I love that moment so much..there is just such affection between them. I don't even mind it's not a GnR moment, cause I want everybody to love Axl. lol. I'm sure @Andy14 made a great gif of that.

No he doesn't, which is one of the reasons why I thought this might be a possibility. Though it would be a very "Mama Beta"-ish arrangement again...

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Frey said:

Yeah, but the huge amount of money he received for doing that should be enough to show their gratitude imo. No need to really go the extra mile the way he's doing if he's just thankful for saving their ass.

No he doesn't, which is one of the reasons why I thought this might be a possibility. Though it would be a very "Mama Beta"-ish arrangement again...

 

 

Oh no, do you think so? I have a feeling it would be a little bit healthier..Angus doesn't "need" Axl..oh wait, maybe he does?! Oh God :P

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7 minutes ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

Do you think Angus has googled Axl? I've been wondering this, he surely must have done or someone who works for him, seeing as Axl's reputation precedes him. 

You would think he'd wonder why Axl is so hated and ridiculed, by many.

What Im getting at is, when you dig into Axl's past you don't have to dig far for a hell of a lot of horrible things he's done to turn up. I wonder if Angus knows these things, and it just doesn't bother him because he genuinely seems to like Axl or maybe Axl has talked to him about them, or Angus does not know at all. 

ohhh, that's a good question! I bet he doesn't know, or care to know, jack shit. And is just taking Axl at face value, as he is right now. Maybe why they get along so well!

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