Fansince88 Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 6 minutes ago, Kris_1989 said: For those that would like to listen Duff is about to do an interview on KIRO radio. They didn't give a specific start time but here's the link: http://kiroradio.com/category/kiroradiolive/ Edit: Started at 12:58 Thanks for letting us know! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asia Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 On one hand I am the last person to stand up for TB because I can't stand them. But on the other hand trying to blame them for what happens to be Axl's decisions and Axl's bad choices is a huge mistake IMO. I don't think they have that much influence. They just follow in Axl's footsteps and share whatever crazy views he might have at the moment. He hates Slash - they hate Slash, he likes Slash again - they love Slash. They're just his hired people who do what he pelases and who swallow whatever he throws at them. Sure, he makes mistakes and they support him in his greatest mistakes instead of trying to straighten him out and it is harmful but then again that's their job. Everybody else who ever tried the opposite was soon out the door for good. They don't want out, they're comfy the way it is and I can't say I'm surprised. I don't really much believe in the TB conspiracy and them dictating to Axl. They just affirm him in whatever stupid thing he comes up with and that's all. Sure they probably don't want him to get too independent as this would threaten their position (however only to some extent) but they don't keep him there on a chain. Truth is they even go out and spend time with the band, for example, while Axl himself doesn't. Is that because Beta told him to stay in his room? I don't think so. These are his choices that he makes in his quite fucked up mind and they go with the flow. It's not their job to be therapists, plus therapists are usually useless and hardly ever of any help. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killuridols Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 I just came back from the fucken' street! Its so hot and humid outside and I had to buy eggs. It is hotter than this heated debate Please, my fellas, send me support via Skype, a.k.a. buckets-of-cold-water for this burning hot tears! Thank you Beta by take care me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoot Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 5 minutes ago, Fansince88 said: Thanks for letting us know! No problem! Can't believe they had Duff on the phone and only talked to him about traffic. Lame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frey Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 3 minutes ago, Asia said: On one hand I am the last person to stand up for TB because I can't stand them. But on the other hand trying to blame them for what happens to be Axl's decisions and Axl's bad choices is a huge mistake IMO. I don't think they have that much influence. They just follow in Axl's footsteps and share whatever crazy views he might have at the moment. He hates Slash - they hate Slash, he likes Slash again - they love Slash. They're just his hired people who do what he pelases and who swallow whatever he throws at them. Sure, he makes mistakes and they support him in his greatest mistakes instead of trying to straighten him out and it is harmful but then again that's their job. Everybody else who ever tried the opposite was soon out the door for good. They don't want out, they're comfy the way it is and I can't say I'm surprised. I don't really much believe in the TB conspiracy and them dictating to Axl. They just affirm him in whatever stupid thing he comes up with and that's all. Stuff like encouraging his delusions (because it plays into their goals) can be classified as highly questionable behavior though. Not to mention actively blocking him from seeing certain things/meeting certain people, etc. Or more or less pressuring him into heavily emotionally charged decisions. I don't remember if you were here for that or not, but we've had some very interesting discussions about TB in the past. There's even a list somewhere by @killuridols and @Lumikki of all the shady shit they've pulled. And it all just paints a rather manipulative and ugly picture. 9 minutes ago, Kris_1989 said: No problem! Can't believe they had Duff on the phone and only talked to him about traffic. Lame. That's all they talked about? Guess I won't bother listening to it then. Thanks for sharing though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asia Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 Quote Stuff like encouraging his delusions (because it plays into their goals) can be classified as highly questionable behavior though. Not to mention actively blocking him from seeing certain things/meeting certain people, etc. Or more or less pressuring him into heavily emotionally charged decisions. I don't remember if you were here for that or not, but we've had some very interesting discussions about TB in the past. There's even a list somewhere by @killuridols and @Lumikki of all the shady shit they've pulled. And it all just paints a rather manipulative and ugly picture. Questionable but then again if they didn't he'd get rid of them and find someone who does, I'm afraid. As for the other stuff, yeah, you're right they pulled some ugly tricks on him, which is why I'm saying I am the last one to defend them but also don't think Axl would be that much more normal without them. He's always truasted those who crawled up his ass and took money for that - the most idoitic attitude possible that surprisingly many people share. I guess not much can be done about it. If not TB, it would be somebody else and ultimately Axl himself is responsible. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fansince88 Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 37 minutes ago, Kris_1989 said: No problem! Can't believe they had Duff on the phone and only talked to him about traffic. Lame. Almost as bad as pluggin your Mom's book on the radio. (Sorry Steven- love ya, but it had to be said). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocketqueen76 Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 I think this is very much needed today.... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillionsOfSpiders Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 4 minutes ago, Rocketqueen76 said: I think this is very much needed today.... No, this.. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frey Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 37 minutes ago, Asia said: Questionable but then again if they didn't he'd get rid of them and find someone who does, I'm afraid. As for the other stuff, yeah, you're right they pulled some ugly tricks on him, which is why I'm saying I am the last one to defend them but also don't think Axl would be that much more normal without them. He's always truasted those who crawled up his ass and took money for that - the most idoitic attitude possible that surprisingly many people share. I guess not much can be done about it. If not TB, it would be somebody else and ultimately Axl himself is responsible. But that's exactly the point. Axl is not a "normal" person (as far as I can tell) and therefore doesn't exactly make normal, rational decisions. If we were talking about Duff here, I would agree about it all being idiotic, but Duff doesn't make decisions like that because he's a normal, reasonable individual. It's a circular argument. This is why I said in an earlier post that it doesnt make sense to hold Axl to the same standard as other people because he doesn't operate like your average person. It's debatable whether the cause of that are mental health issues, the effects of his childhood, or him just being a lonely and desperate man without a family. Or all of that. But I think it's pointless to try to lay blame on him for things he probably can't really control (at least to a certain extent). I pretty much feel about this debate like I feel when I think of the patients in the psychiatric facility I briefly used to work at: I don't know exactly and in detail how they became what they are, but I don't go around blaming them for what they are. It just is what it is and all you can do is to try your best to help and be supportive. (Which does not mean enabling and manipulating, like some people do.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackstar Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Asia said: On one hand I am the last person to stand up for TB because I can't stand them. But on the other hand trying to blame them for what happens to be Axl's decisions and Axl's bad choices is a huge mistake IMO. I don't think they have that much influence. They just follow in Axl's footsteps and share whatever crazy views he might have at the moment. He hates Slash - they hate Slash, he likes Slash again - they love Slash. They're just his hired people who do what he pelases and who swallow whatever he throws at them. Sure, he makes mistakes and they support him in his greatest mistakes instead of trying to straighten him out and it is harmful but then again that's their job. Everybody else who ever tried the opposite was soon out the door for good. They don't want out, they're comfy the way it is and I can't say I'm surprised. I don't really much believe in the TB conspiracy and them dictating to Axl. They just affirm him in whatever stupid thing he comes up with and that's all. Sure they probably don't want him to get too independent as this would threaten their position (however only to some extent) but they don't keep him there on a chain. Truth is they even go out and spend time with the band, for example, while Axl himself doesn't. Is that because Beta told him to stay in his room? I don't think so. These are his choices that he makes in his quite fucked up mind and they go with the flow. It's not their job to be therapists, plus therapists are usually useless and hardly ever of any help. I don't disagree with much of what you say. You have a point in that TB doesn't "make" Axl do everything he does but rather they go along with him. But, (as @Frey said), there has been a case which could be considered emotional blackmail and occasions when they seem to "think in advance" on behalf of Axl and make decisions for his "protection", for example not letting certain people see him because it would be upsetting to him, although it turned out that Axl wanted to see them. "Normally" Axl wouldn't like that, as he generally doesn't like to be dictated, but he is dependent on them as much they are on him; the difference with his dependence on them is that it's mostly emotional, because he feels that he can't do without them and he owes them a lot; it's not that he keeps them around just because they kiss his ass and do what he wants them to. What I disagree with (I'm referring mostly to @chers' posts) is that it would be just a matter of simple choice for Axl to have a different life just because he has money. 1 hour ago, Kris_1989 said: No problem! Can't believe they had Duff on the phone and only talked to him about traffic. Lame. I guess the interview didn't last long But thank you Edited March 8, 2017 by Blackstar syntax 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane M. Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 14 minutes ago, MillionsOfSpiders said: No, this.. Wrong. This is it: 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asia Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 11 minutes ago, Frey said: But that's exactly the point. Axl is not a "normal" person (as far as I can tell) and therefore doesn't exactly make normal, rational decisions. If we were talking about Duff here, I would agree about it all being idiotic, but Duff doesn't make decisions like that because he's a normal, reasonable individual. It's a circular argument. This is why I said in an earlier post that it doesnt make sense to hold Axl to the same standard as other people because he doesn't operate like your average person. It's debatable whether the cause of that are mental health issues, the effects of his childhood, or him just being a lonely and desperate man without a family. Or all of that. But I think it's pointless to try to lay blame on him for things he probably can't really control (at least to a certain extent). I pretty much feel about this debate like I feel when I think of the patients in the psychiatric facility I briefly used to work at: I don't know exactly and in detail how they became what they are, but I don't go around blaming them for what they are. It just is what it is and all you can do is to try your best to help and be supportive. (Which does not mean enabling and manipulating, like some people do.) What makes you think that a person without a wife or kids must be lonely and desperate? What makes you think that a family is a blessing? Most families I know are disfunctional in one way or another and hardly any support for one another, on the other hand many people without "families" in your very narrow understanding of this word function great and are happy. People are different and have different needs - not everyne needs a pain in the ass hubby or a pain in the ass lady in the house or a bunch of kids. Some people prefer lose relationships or families in the form of very close circle of friends or whatever. Don't be so judgemental on this subject. Axl has always been the person who treated his closest friends as his family - at first these were the band guys, now it is TB. It is family to him and it could be a great family, had they not certain traces of character that they have. But it has nothing to do with them not being his blood or married family, a wife could just as well do the same to him, it wouldn't be the first case like that. I also think you are very seriously overestimating his mental prorblems. The guy has some issues, most of us do, he might have some more then the average person or of a different kind but it's not like we can't blame him for anything because he has no control. Really, he's not a schisophrenic, he knows what he's doing and what is happening around him, he knows what consequences his actions have, he thinks quite logically and clearly and there is absolutely no reason to treat him like a total madman, just because he often often comes to different conclusions than most or makes many stupid decisions. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chers Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, Blackstar said: What I disagree with (I'm referring mostly to @chers' posts) is that it would just a matter of choice for Axl to have a different life just because he has money. You misunderstood my point, my point is Axls behavior and actions and responsibility, money has 0 to do with this part. my point is everyone babies Axl, I love him btw, but I'm talking about his problems mental, emotional, destructive, abusive, some is how he is born/wired, but at his age and as people get older ,and from experience, most people learn the deal w/their issues according to their personality and capabilities. In his case famous quote "crazy is doing the same thing and expecting different outcomes", This is mostly his fault, others think it's his TB fault, I cringe at them , but he has been this way before TB, I feel sorry for him or anyone else, with his childhood and any mental issues, however, money wise, I mean if I wanted to get help, it would be way harder with me being a plain everyday person, I would have to find the money, , being stuck in traffic, the time etc. and other support, whereas Axl is famous, people know and recognize him, he.has tons of the cash, drivers, assistants he can probably see a therapists or get meds in a second, . I would have to prove myself and work 10 times harder to get the help he or other famous people have From my experience, it's easier for people like him to grab help , he even get police escorts, does he need these , Edited March 9, 2017 by chers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post BlueJean Baby Posted March 8, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted March 8, 2017 3 hours ago, killuridols said: And yeah, all of your hairdressers gave you a good advice in not letting you dye your hair because dye is one of the worst chemicals for the hair, along with the permanent ironing or straigthening.... If you have a nice natural color and you keep your hair healthy, I wouldn't recommend anyone to apply dye in all of it. Unless its some highlights or one of those dyes that are not permanent. I've been dying my hair since I was 17 and it was cool back then but my hair experimented changes throughout the years and now that I'mv starting to get some grey hairs, it sucks too much. I need a lot of care to make it look good and I dont even dye it that often, but still, when it's starting to fade my hair turns frizzy and hard. I cant comb it or do anything naturally nice with it until I apply new dye again You shouldn't make a blanketed statement about hair dye being bad for your hair. Not everyone's hair is the same, you are supposed to test a small section and see if it causes any damage. If so try another brand. I have dyed my hair for 35 years now, it is not damaged at all, it is silky, soft, shiny and having gotten prematurely gray hairs, they take the color differently, so mine looks like it has highlights. I dye it myself and have had hairdressers stop and ask who takes such great care of my hair and ask what I use. Mine is not frizzy, dry or broken, and its almost down to my ass. I don't spend a fortune on it either. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueJean Baby Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 46 minutes ago, Asia said: What makes you think that a person without a wife or kids must be lonely and desperate? What makes you think that a family is a blessing? Most families I know are disfunctional in one way or another and hardly any support for one another, on the other hand many people without "families" in your very narrow understanding of this word function great and are happy. People are different and have different needs - not everyne needs a pain in the ass hubby or a pain in the ass lady in the house or a bunch of kids. Some people prefer lose relationships or families in the form of very close circle of friends or whatever. Don't be so judgemental on this subject. Axl has always been the person who treated his closest friends as his family - at first these were the band guys, now it is TB. It is family to him and it could be a great family, had they not certain traces of character that they have. But it has nothing to do with them not being his blood or married family, a wife could just as well do the same to him, it wouldn't be the first case like that. I also think you are very seriously overestimating his mental prorblems. The guy has some issues, most of us do, he might have some more then the average person or of a different kind but it's not like we can't blame him for anything because he has no control. Really, he's not a schisophrenic, he knows what he's doing and what is happening around him, he knows what consequences his actions have, he thinks quite logically and clearly and there is absolutely no reason to treat him like a total madman, just because he often often comes to different conclusions than most or makes many stupid decisions. I agree with you about most of this. I have never considered Axl to be mental. Yes, he had a lot of issues from childhood, which would fuck anyone up to some degree, especially when they were trying to come to grips with it all. TB he considers his family, if that is what he needs in his life, who are we to judge his actions? I have always believed that he is just terribly misunderstood. His anger in the past came from frustrations of not being understood, not many people have ever tried to understand and most just bash his thoughts and actions as being wrong. If everyone on earth thought the same way and handled things the same way, this would be one fuckin' boring world. What works for one person doesn't necessarily work for everyone else. I honestly believe he has a good head on his shoulders, look at all the old rants about going for your dreams, not settling for less in life, taking your destiny into your own hands to become something in life. Sure, he had a few really bad relationships that left him really hurt. That tends to make you put a wall around your heart and prevent you from trusting people and makes it harder to let people into your life and heart. I know, I have that same pain inside. He seems to be a lot happier now. He is extremely funny, has a great sense of humor. He is always under psychoanalysis everywhere he goes, would you be social and go out much if it were you? That is what is sad... 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiraMPD Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 4 hours ago, Frey said: You said people who "wanted to be around Axl as his friend". Do you live with your friends, see them every day and will spend your retirement living with them? I don't. Thus, the above mentioned qualify as people who wanted to be around him as friends. And I don't think it matters all that much how often they see each other. I only get to see some of my closest friends pretty rarely due to life circumstances getting in the way, but that doesn't mean we're not tight. Yes, I did say that but it was in response to your scenario of Axl ending up all alone as a miserable old geezer so I assumed that it would be clear that I meant close friend/family. If having a close friend is all that's required for one to not be old and alone then with Baz and Del still around I guess you and I have nothing to worry about...? But that's just semantics... I stand by my initial point though. All of people that decided to stick around as Axl's family have some vested interest (primarily financial security). I would say that this stretches back to the early days of Guns when he would find jobs for his friends/family or hire them to work in the band, or doing grand (and expensive) gestures to appease them after a falling out. It could be like a continuous loop where Axl bases his likeability on his financial worth which tends to attract certain types of people and the ones that aren't into that are put off by it. I also kinda disagree with the statement that Axl can't be held to the "normal" standards. I mean, no one can be held to one standard cuz everyone is a little different, some more so than others. I think comparing it to Duff and holding him up as a standard for normal is a little unfair. Duff had some major problems as well but he also had a family that was willing to help him at his lowest. Axl had Beta when he was at his lowest. I would say they are very different circumstances. When you are in a dark place like that either someone helps pull you out or you make your own way out... or you wallow in it and let it take over your life. But you still have choices unless it can be proven that Axl is unable to make decisions for himself then he is very much responsible for the state of his social circle. I do agree that it could be too late to make any changes at this point. Just from a business point of view it would be very difficult to set TB aside now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killuridols Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 3 hours ago, Frey said: Stuff like encouraging his delusions (because it plays into their goals) can be classified as highly questionable behavior though. Not to mention actively blocking him from seeing certain things/meeting certain people, etc. Or more or less pressuring him into heavily emotionally charged decisions. I don't remember if you were here for that or not, but we've had some very interesting discussions about TB in the past. There's even a list somewhere by @killuridols and @Lumikki of all the shady shit they've pulled. And it all just paints a rather manipulative and ugly picture. That's all they talked about? Guess I won't bother listening to it then. Thanks for sharing though. Damn we needed that Index of the old thread so badly Anyway, what I want to say about TB is that we should be careful with underestimating their role in Axl's life. Think of this: Beta, who was just a nanny to the child of famous people in the 90's, scalated her way up and now she's the boss of a managing company? What is TB? They are the managers of Guns N' Roses and look at who they were 30 years ago. So to me, these people can't be considered puppets who do and follow what Axl says or else they are fired. I'm sure Axl has fired their asses off 1 million times, but they insisted, stayed, waited and look where they are now. A whole immigrant family set up for the rest of their lives. There's no fucking way they are innocent or stupid or puppets of Axl Rose. More like Axl is their puppet and their future and money income depends on him 100% so if they've managed to remain close to him all this time, it's clear they know what they're doing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerenityScorp Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 (edited) 6 hours ago, KiraMPD said: Slash mentioned that he actively a avoided any contact from Axl after he quit. Slash is funny, He avoided Axl after He quit but He keeps talking/ thinking about Axl, He's very obsessed with Axl 2 hours ago, Asia said: What makes you think that a person without a wife or kids must be lonely and desperate? What makes you think that a family is a blessing? Most families I know are disfunctional in one way or another and hardly any support for one another, on the other hand many people without "families" in your very narrow understanding of this word function great and are happy. People are different and have different needs - not everyne needs a pain in the ass hubby or a pain in the ass lady in the house or a bunch of kids. Some people prefer lose relationships or families in the form of very close circle of friends or whatever. Don't be so judgemental on this subject. Axl has always been the person who treated his closest friends as his family - at first these were the band guys, now it is TB. It is family to him and it could be a great family, had they not certain traces of character that they have. But it has nothing to do with them not being his blood or married family, a wife could just as well do the same to him, it wouldn't be the first case like that. Axl is the opposite. Have You read about the conversation of Axl N' a fans in the bar? *Someone need to tell the details of this story The only moment tht Im thankful Beta was there is when Axl try to commit suicide Edited March 9, 2017 by SerenityScorp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killuridols Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 17 minutes ago, SerenityScorp said: Axl is the opposite. Have You read about the conversation of Axl N' a fans in the bar? *Someone need to tell the details of this story Which of all of them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerenityScorp Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 (edited) 8 minutes ago, killuridols said: Which of all of them? You mean? The bar Story? Story of drunk Axl said to His Fans tht He is lonely His Friends leave Him N' He feels His Fans didnt like Him anymore *If Im right Edited March 9, 2017 by SerenityScorp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killuridols Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 6 minutes ago, SerenityScorp said: You mean? You mentioned a conversation between Axl and a fan at a bar but there are many stories of this, so which one are you referring to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerenityScorp Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 (edited) 12 minutes ago, killuridols said: You mentioned a conversation between Axl and a fan at a bar but there are many stories of this, so which one are you referring to? The drunk Axl have a heartfelt conversation with a Fan about His loneliness N' Del was there trying to drive off the Fan from Axl but Axl said its okay He wants to talk with a Fan I didnt know any story of a Fan with Axl beside tht, Maybe You can tell Me some story of tht Edited March 9, 2017 by SerenityScorp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marlingrl03 Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 4 hours ago, Fansince88 said: Almost as bad as pluggin your Mom's book on the radio. (Sorry Steven- love ya, but it had to be said). Speaking of...he and his mom were just on Adam Corolla's radio show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killuridols Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 31 minutes ago, SerenityScorp said: The drunk Axl have a heartfelt conversation with a Fan about His loneliness N' Del was there trying to drive off the Fan from Axl but Axl said its okay He wants to talk with a Fan I didnt know any story of a Fan with Axl beside tht, Maybe You can tell Me some story of tht He's revealed himself and his misery when talking to random fans who were at the right moment in the right place. This is according to those fans who got to interact with him and caught him drunk enough to open up like that. There are a couple fan stories of the sort... But I don't have any links at hand to point you out now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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