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GNR Women's Discussion - Part 2


alfierose

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Sorry to derail for a moment, and I know this conversation was yesterday, but I somehow missed this post, and so I am just sneaking in here quickly cause I need to do this:

On ‎2017‎-‎03‎-‎22 at 6:17 PM, Rocketqueen76 said:

I found out as a teenager that I was unable to have kids and I have to tell you, I often hold a certain resentment towards my sisters and other female family members when they bring their children around. True enough I live with seven of my nieces and nephews, but I am reminded on a daily basis...an hourly basis, that at the end of the day they are not my kids to do xyz with. So I can totally understand IF Axl did feel uncomfortable seeing his friends interact with their children and talking about parenting things that he couldn't relate to.

:hug:

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1 hour ago, BlueJean Baby said:

Yeah, I grew up during those times and it was much different than it is now. I was hanging around bands when I was 15, my boyfriend was the 21 year old singer. There were always little 12 and 13 year old girls hanging around the house they lived in....back then you could drive at 16 and drink at 18. Most of the time no one ever checked IDs to buy liquor, so the young ones were getting drunk too. 

We did these things too (here we haven't even had age restriction for drinking, buying alcohol and entering bars), but, although there were cases of teenage girls having older boyfriends, we mostly did it with people around our age, that is high school ages 15-18 or maybe a year younger or older.

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15 minutes ago, BlueJean Baby said:

I am that way to some extent. I have always had jobs where I had to deal with the public or large numbers of people and did OK since it was my job.

But I love my alone time and hate being in crowded places...even shopping in a Walmart makes me feel crazy. I spent a lot if time alone being an only child when I was young and was so shy I would not even speak to people I knew if I ran into them. As I got older, I was fine with people I knew but was very quiet and shy when first meeting people.

 

Ohhhhh Wallyworld. yes that place is not my fave store at all haha. My mom used to tell me stories about how when I was younger I would not ask for ketchup or a refill because I was so shy and have my brothers do it. I have come a long way though....going to my first Guns concert last summer by myself surrounded by 40,000 people in a city I had never been too was huge for me and I am SO glad I did it!! :)

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14 minutes ago, Fansince88 said:

Yes exactly me too.  I get up at least 30 minutes before anyone in my family because if I don't have that alone time in the morning, I feel anxious  the rest of the day.    

It's really a shame that more people don't understand this.  My husband has a big, sociable family and when we first started dating I was always the last to arrive and the first to leave a family party and his family mistook what that meant.  They thought I didn't like them or was snobby.  It tlook a while for them to understand that I am much more comfortable having 10 individual dinners with just a few people than to be with 25 of them at once and luckily now they don't put pressure on me to go to every single gathering and we have enjoyed lots of small get togethers over the years. 

It is so great when family has your back and understand that it is ok not to be overly social and chatty all the time, especially with many people... and that just because you aren't at parties or gatherings for hours and hours on end is nothing personal against them at all.

My family understands thankfully, although sometimes they may need gentle reminders haha.

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14 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

We did these things too (here we haven't even had age restriction for drinking, buying alcohol and entering bars), but, although there were cases of teenage girls having older boyfriends, we mostly did it with people around our age, that is high school ages 15-18 or maybe a year younger or older.

I never hung out with anyone from my high school. If I wasn't in school, I was at my boyfriend's house that he shared with the guys in his band....very similar to how hell house was described.... Trashed house, old food everywhere, nonworking toilets....my best friend and I would get sick of it and clean it up from time to time. Most of the guys were six years or more older than us and there were 12 and 13 year old girls that hung around all the time, but would disappear when the girlfriends, being me and my best friend, showed up. They reminded me of cockroaches scattering.

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1 hour ago, BlueJean Baby said:

I disagree with the part about it lack of parental control or dysfunctional family lives that lead to this. My best friend and I were both from upper middle class families, both parents in the home, and the were very strict and old fashioned. We were the nice girls from the good side of town that hung out with the bad boys from the wrong side of the tracks. We were always at the mall, skating rink or wherever they thought we were supposed to be. Our parents were a little naive, I guess, and believed whatever we told them. They would drop us off at the skating rink every Friday and Saturday night and five minutes later the guys would pick us up and bring us back in time for the parents to pick us up again. I got a car at 16, so they never really knew where we were or who we were with, we had curfews, but would say we were spending the night at another friends house....they never had any clue. Life in the suburbs of a big city....time before cellphones, so they never had a way to really check up on us.

I agree with this too. In the big cities kids often tend to be way more independent and mature than one would expect, regardless of their family background or income. In the huge American city where I grew up in the 80s, it wasn't at all uncommon for elementary school aged kids to take the bus or train alone, be trusted to go to the store with a shopping list, do laundry, be trusted to be somewhere at a certain time, and even go to the bank for their family. I was no different. When I bought Appetite for Destruction, in fact, I'd taken the bus over to the record store alone after school - and I was in grade school. And then I took another bus home, and nobody freaked out. When I was older and met kids from other areas, I was actually kind of stunned that they'd never taken the train or done their own shopping or whatever.

So going to clubs and bars in high school (or even junior high) was just a continuation of that, our parents were often fully aware of where we were and trusted us to take care of ourselves, and often we really did just go to see the bands, not to drink and get stupid. Although that did happen too, and I certainly remember getting drunk.

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34 minutes ago, Fansince88 said:

It's really a shame that more people don't understand this.  My husband has a big, sociable family and when we first started dating I was always the last to arrive and the first to leave a family party and his family mistook what that meant.  They thought I didn't like them or was snobby.  It tlook a while for them to understand that I am much more comfortable having 10 individual dinners with just a few people than to be with 25 of them at once and luckily now they don't put pressure on me to go to every single gathering and we have enjoyed lots of small get togethers over the years. 

ITA. It's a lot easier when it's understood. I've also been accused of being snobby, and people think I don't like them, simply because I don't want to be talking all the time and want to go off on my own. I can actually be very talkative in person, but it's in very limited doses, and in large crowds or groups of people I tend to really wither.

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7 minutes ago, stella said:

I agree with this too. In the big cities kids often tend to be way more independent and mature than one would expect, regardless of their family background or income. In the huge American city where I grew up in the 80s, it wasn't at all uncommon for elementary school aged kids to take the bus or train alone, be trusted to go to the store with a shopping list, do laundry, be trusted to be somewhere at a certain time, and even go to the bank for their family. I was no different. When I bought Appetite for Destruction, in fact, I'd taken the bus over to the record store alone after school - and I was in grade school. And then I took another bus home, and nobody freaked out. When I was older and met kids from other areas, I was actually kind of stunned that they'd never taken the train or done their own shopping or whatever.

So going to clubs and bars in high school (or even junior high) was just a continuation of that, our parents were often fully aware of where we were and trusted us to take care of ourselves, and often we really did just go to see the bands, not to drink and get stupid. Although that did happen too, and I certainly remember getting drunk.

Lol...grape bubble gum to cover up the smell of liquor ;)

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4 hours ago, Frey said:

Freddie Mercury is a great example. Always described by others (and himself apparently) as being introverted, private and shy off-stage. And yet arguably the greatest front man and performer who ever lived.

------

Or just kidnap Axl and lock him into a room with Slash and Duff (and Izzy too, while we're at it) for a couple of weeks. There- Axl is now hanging out and "socialising" with his band mates and it will be good for him. Even Izzy. This should make everyone happy.

 

 

Im gonna watch Them fight :popcorn:

 

 

Are all introvert person really not like the crowds?  Cause sometimes I like to spend My time alone in the mall

Edited by SerenityScorp
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Out of likes but these comments are funny and reminding me of my childhood. As far as Walmart goes, I blacked out my first time there. It was Christmas time and I couldn't breathe or get away from the crowds. It was horrible. Funny now.

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9 minutes ago, Ubukitty said:

Out of likes but these comments are funny and reminding me of my childhood. As far as Walmart goes, I blacked out my first time there. It was Christmas time and I couldn't breathe or get away from the crowds. It was horrible. Funny now.

I always feel like people are coming from every direction with their damn carts and are going to hit me...

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Just now, BlueJean Baby said:

I always feel like people are coming from every direction with their damn carts and are going to hit me...

That's because they are coming from every direction:scared:. Summer is the worst because if you're wearing flip flops or slippers they always run into your heels. Drives me crazy, not to mention it hurts.

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8 hours ago, Frey said:

Most introverts are perfectly capable of going on stage or holding speeches or presentations to an audience if they have to. They just don't like it or struggle with it or maybe it's even killing them inside, but apart from that, no reason why they can't do it. Especially if you're used to doing something, it becomes easier for you, even if it goes against your natural inclinations. And Axl has been performing in front of people since he was a child. Plus, according to various people Axl had some severe anxiety issues about going on stage. Sounds like a perfectly plausible feeling to me for an introverted person.

Myers-Briggs test is complete nonsense for the most part and falls into the category of pseudo-science, so I don't see what that has to do with anything. And I'm surprised to see you base an argument on something like Myers-Briggs, since you're usually so scientifically minded and claim to detest ignorance.

Well, Slash and Axl claim they're both introverted and shy. And I think they probably do know the difference between being shy and introverted (it's not like this is a difficult to grasp concept), they probably just think both of these terms apply to them.

I never said anything about antisocial personality disorder or introversion being a personality disorder you have to fix. I used the word "overcome", because unfortunately, as you yourself said, we live in an extrovert world and it is necessary to learn to go against your natural inclinations sometimes for various reasons.

 

 

 

 

I agree with what you're saying about introverts being capable of going on stage or holding speeches. I think when you mix being an introvert and suffering from anxiety then you'll definitely have a problem with being in front of an audience. Also in the beginning when they performed ,most if not all of them were on drugs or alcohol so that can have a great calming effect and give you greater power to do what you normally wouldn't. Again what you said, once you're used to it then of course it's easier.

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Lots of introverts in this thread for sure! I guess I am one too and I'm realizing it right now :o.

I guess Axl WAS right when he said that everybody needs sometime on their own :lol:

I'm afraid I'm a bit behind with the discussion so I'll get back to business!

23 hours ago, killuridols said:

I think all the choices he makes are indicative of his state of mind and approach in life. Even if some blinded fans want to make excuses for him, none of us can live a 100% reclusive life where there are no witnesses of anything. There's always someone around.

 

This. I figure regardless of whether Axl doesn't like being on the social media or would like to keep his private life private, nowadays with the Internet, cell phones and all the social media, it would be almost impossible to keep his social life too much of a secret, and information would eventually leak, not necessarily through the people involved but maybe as you said, through casual witnesses.

22 hours ago, stella said:

I am liking this discussion too!

I'm having trouble quoting here for some reason, but there have been several "no photos" instances. One I can think of is when he did that Eddie Trunk interview with Baz. And he's said straight out that he is not fond of social media.

During the early 90s, Axl had a variety of friends around him. The press didn't know them all, and there weren't images of all of them. He basically flew under the radar as much as possible

Think about the other celebrity photos we see. We see them going to premieres, hobnobbing at celebrity parties, and hanging out with various other celebrities, as well as people who are thrilled to meet them and post photos. We don't see them going about their normal lives unless a paparazzo finds them or they choose to post about it, which they usually don't. How many of them mention their "offstage" friends?

For that matter...do *we* publicly post all our interactions with friends?

The photos we see of Axl are usually the ones surrounding the shows and the public events that he does. The friends we see him with in the photos are mostly the hangers-on at the shows. Axl's said himself that in his own life he has hung out in the places the paps don't go, where he's not likely to be noticed. He's a 55 year old man; he's not hanging on Instagram all day long, and it's in his best interests to keep some privacy.

Thanks for the clarification. I was at a loss as to what no-photo instances you were talking about and I thought that you meant that he had explicitly asked certain people not to take photos of him.

I understand that Axl managed to keep some (def not all) of his private life in the dark back in the day, mainly the things you accurately pointed out, because the global context back then allowed him to (as I mentioned above), but I don't think he could manage to replicate that now, and that's why I don't completely buy the privacy theory.

My problem with it does not come from the question of whether Axl likes being in the social media (probably not) or whether he or Sluff upload pictures of the times they get together (def not for now) or even whether he has "secret" friends who respect/share his privacy issues too. My problem with the privacy theory comes from the understanding that whether Axl likes it or not, I don't think there's much he can do to control the spread of information in the current state of affairs, not only because of technology but also because of the high popularity he's having right now. I figure if he did go out and hang with other people apart from the ones we usually see him with, there would eventually be someone who would recognise him and either upload a picture or comment on the scene. He is big news right now. So for now, as there aren't many pictures of Axl socializing, I don't think he does it that much. And as there aren't any pictures of Axl hanging in Sluff's family parties, I don´t think he does it much either. Now whether that's ok or not would depend imo whether it makes him happy or not. :shrugs:

23 hours ago, killuridols said:

But I think there is more to it.... The freak show has special traits that are of his interest. It's not just the youth element. To me it is the dark side of them. They are more like him, this "rocket queen" kind of vibe they have.
 

I agree with you, but I reckon he could also get the "rocket queen" vibe from people his own age too. I'm sure there are lots of other rock n roll singletons in their 40s/50s with a dark side to them that he could hang out with. But the fact that he chooses to do it with these very young people is what makes me think that this factor is what makes the difference to him.

23 hours ago, killuridols said:

 

Umm... No, I don't think it is extremely strange because the reality of her is that she has no relevance in fashion industry. She's not a word of authority in nothing regarding fashion so who's going to interview her and what for?

From the little I've seen of her, it seems to me she was more of a catalogue model and her real income generated by the escort job. That and also attending events with other models or women who are used as flower jars in meetings, gatherings, product presentations, etc.

14 hours ago, stella said:

Not really. Unless someone's a top model or they have the initiative to do their own social media or YouTube channel, it's a job and there isn't a lot of interest in what they have to say. Same with acting. There are thousands and thousands of actors making a decent living but you never hear a peep from them in the media because they are day players or have minor roles. I actually have friends who are like that; they make a very decent living as actors or session musicians but you would never recognize their name in the press, much less see videos of them talking about stuff.

Plus, "model" is a very wide category. You can be a foot model or someone who does live drawing classes or whatnot, and you can make steady money from that - you're still a model, but you're not on the cover of Vogue and nobody knows you from Adam.

You both seem to agree on this one. I still find it weird. Sasha has been spotted not only with Axl but with other famous men as well. She's not some random catalogue model that nobody knows about. When you google her, there are lots of pictures of her in social events that for some reason get photographed or even videotaped. Regardless of whether she has anything important to say or not (I don't think many models do anyway), I find it difficult to believe that nobody has caught her on cam, even if it's in a backstage/amateur shoot or something.

12 hours ago, Blackstar said:

That girl in the faux rape charge, who Axl had sex with, was 15. I've read another -quite disturbing- story with a 15 year old in a groupies board or something, although I have strong doubts that it's true. It seems there were under-aged girls in their circle, in the Hell House parties etc during the early days. Also some of the known members of the inner circle were quite young, Barbi for example was 17 according to Slash's book. I don't know, maybe it was a common thing back then in LA :question:

Yeah, Erin was close to his age (3 years younger, iirc). Gina was about 4 years younger I think; this gap is "normal" for people above a certain age, but notable when for example one partner is 20 and the other 15, or, as in Axl's case, he was 22 and Gina was still at school - but anyway, such relationships are not unusual, so I guess it can be considered as a normal relationship. Michelle Young, who he had a brief relationship with, was 5 years younger. I had the impression that Stephanie was around 10 years younger, but I checked and she was 6 years younger.

Anyway, maybe I was off about this, but it seemed to me that Axl viewed the relationships with women around his age as a combination of romantic relationship and friendship, and for strictly romantic or -more usually- plain sexual relationships he had a preference for younger women/girls.

 

Interesting observation! I hadn't noticed that the pattern dated from that way back. Could we add Lana Del Rey to the list? :ph34r:

Edited by solstar
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On 3/22/2017 at 10:10 PM, killuridols said:

On a healthier note :ph34r:.... The lazy personal trainer just posted this video of Duff working out, getting ready for the new leg of the tour. 

 

 

Difficult to see knowing he was a mere 2 blocks from my home working out today. Geez.

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On 3/22/2017 at 9:52 PM, killuridols said:

All of you try to explain to me the same thing over and over and it is always the same excuse for his odd behavior that has nothing to do with being a millionaire or needing help with whatever shit.

You are all blinded to the truth of this man-child with mommy issues.

Now I'm sure if it was Steven who we were talking about, opinions would be way different. None of you have a crush on Steven so he gets no love. :shrugs:

Freedom. Alcohol. No commitments or steady relationship. Extravagant shit. Something about sex.

I wouldn't rule it out. He had a thing for destroying apartments and furniture but since she said front door, I assumed that it could have been around that time when police showed up to arrest him.

No, she was never introduced anywhere. Even when he was out and about with her and he allowed to be photographed in those occasions, she was never regarded as an official girlfriend or anything of the sort.

Last year, a fan who made it to the China Exchange thing, mentioned here that Sasha said something while Axl was replying to a question and the fan noticed her "broken English". But nothing we have proof of.

I'm going to disagree with the comment about Steven. I have love for the entire band and I don't consider myself to have a crush on any one of them any more so than seeing a nice looking person on the street and saying something complimentary about them without knowing anything about their life. I wouldn't be showing up to Stevens book signing and paying for a book I have no interest in reading if I didn't have love for Steven. It breaks my heart that things didn't work out with him and I would like nothing else but for him to be able to return to the band. It's the band as a whole and the music they make, how it makes me feel and how many years they have been in my life and so on. Maybe you can call it a GnR crush or something. It's not necessarily being blinded to Axl's issues, it's more like having a difference of opinion about how he comes across to me. I also think if the whole thread didn't constantly revolve around Axl so negatively things would be different. I'm not a mind reader and I can't persecute someone for something I don't have proof of. Why aren't there more discussions about the band as a whole instead of constantly projecting Axl's lonely future.

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6 hours ago, solstar said:

I understand that Axl managed to keep some (def not all) of his private life in the dark back in the day, mainly the things you accurately pointed out, because the global context back then allowed him to (as I mentioned above), but I don't think he could manage to replicate that now, and that's why I don't completely buy the privacy theory.

My problem with it does not come from the question of whether Axl likes being in the social media (probably not) or whether he or Sluff upload pictures of the times they get together (def not for now) or even whether he has "secret" friends who respect/share his privacy issues too. My problem with the privacy theory comes from the understanding that whether Axl likes it or not, I don't think there's much he can do to control the spread of information in the current state of affairs, not only because of technology but also because of the high popularity he's having right now. I figure if he did go out and hang with other people apart from the ones we usually see him with, there would eventually be someone who would recognise him and either upload a picture or comment on the scene.

 

Not necessarily in Los Angeles or New York. They're big cities. There are lots of places to go where you're not going to be in the spotlight. There are tons of A-listers living in both cities, and people usually shrug. You can be in the supermarket on line behind an A-lister and nobody blinks. They walk around Disneyland and usually nobody notices. There are some very specific places the paparazzi tend to hang out, and if you don't go there, you don't run into them as much. Axl himself has said that he tends to go places where he isn't going to be noticed.

Nobody even notices Slash or Duff walking around town or being socially active either, unless they post the photos themselves.

And another possibility here is that if he's posting anything about his social activities, they're locked to his friends only - which is what most celebrities actually do with anything meaningful. They don't have that stuff open to the public. And they're not necessarily posting under their own names. Hell, that's what a lot of non-celebrities do too. If you were to look at my social media accounts right now you'd see...nothing. No photos. No friends on the list. It's all locked down, and the thousands of photos and stories in my accounts are for people who actually know me. If I met someone I wouldn't be sharing the photo publicly.

Edited by stella
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21 hours ago, Frey said:

No need to display any personal information, but you might want to read up on this subject if you think what I wrote is hilarious and if you're actually taking Myers-Briggs seriously. Because it is not something that is taken seriously in academia. There are plenty of scientific papers detailing why it is bullshit, if you want to look it up. Or if you don't care enough to go that far, just google stuff like "why myers-briggs is meaningless/nonsense/useless/bullshit etc." and you'll find plenty of articles dealing with this subject. I don't have time to really get into this now, but here's a quick list of reasons why it is bullshit  http://thoughtcatalog.com/lorenzo-jensen-iii/2015/05/13-reasons-why-the-myers-briggs-test-is-absolute-nonsense/

I am aware of the controversy around it and in my opinion it all reduces to the huge competition and egos that are also part of the "Academia". Didn't you know a lot of people who work in science and research act like divas? :lol:

There was upon a time when I thought the Academia was almighty, pure, serious and untouchable. Took me just a couple years to realize that it is a Mexican drama, just like any other work field, with "professors" who think of themselves as gods, people who write papers for the sake of fulfilling some bullshit requirements to keep themselves inside certain groups (or to keep receiving money from the state or whoever pays their investigations).

Everything that is popular and successful always has a bunch of detractors behind, with similar interests to position their own "products" instead. Like there's a trend to say some other personality test is more accurate than this, when in reality, no test is infallible and nothing is 100% accurate. Especially in the field of social science or anything related to the human mind. Psychology itself is not "taken serious" either and social science still struggles to be accepted as science because another team of "scientists" believe the scientific method cannot be applied to social groups. It is a battle field.

The Myers-Briggs indicator is taken by millions of people around the world, most of the time as a requirement in the educational and work environment. It is just another tool to help understand the behavior or personality traits of a person. Some people know how to use it carefully and some others just don't have a clue.

The ones who know how to proceed with this kind of tools, surely know that personality is only one dimension of the complex compound that a human being is. You cannot judge or exactly predict how someone will behave just by applying this test or any other test to someone. This is just an indicator of tendency. It's an spectrum in which no one can be 100% introvert or 100% extrovert. Most people move towards one side or the other, with different variables in the middle. 

The link you provided here is a big joke, as the majority of the "articles" you can find with Google regarding this matter. The fact that this thing is called "13 reasons blah blah" puts it in the same zone as clickbait articles and once you start reading the "reasons" you can't stop laughing at the weakness of each argument. There's absolutely nothing scientific in this rebuttal you have presented here. Actually, some of the comments below it are much brighter and better justified than the whole thing that guy wrote. In particular, I agree with this one:

Quote

The binaries are actually not that simplistic, BECAUSE an elemental concept in constructing profiles is observing how those binary preferences typically interrelate with one another. There are 16 possible results, each distinct combination has a profile. If a person can't be honest with themselves while answering the inventory questions that person's result is meaningless, of course.

The test does not need to be "scientific" to have value. It was never meant to be scientific. I have taken the test many times, am always brutally honest, and I get INFP every time.

I strongly identify with my type, the profile is nearly perfect in my case. If you don't like or validate the test that's fine, I don't care, I dont really need external validation for this. All I can say is that the test is the most important, helpful self-improvement tool I have stumbled across. The profile helped me understand how I think, and it accurately identified areas I need to focus on for personal growth. If you think the developers just made up a bunch of random crap and threw it all together you don't understand/comprehend the kind of research that shaped its development. Dismiss it if you like, but if you are thinking of the test in terms of "scientific proof" of this or that, you're using it wrong. It's an INVENTORY, not a lab experiment or scientific thesis or scientific test.

 

Edited by killuridols
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