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GNR Women's Discussion - Part 2


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53 minutes ago, killuridols said:

Yeah, looks like it... Neil Young played in Buenos Aires in January 2001 too so it makes sense if he went to see him. There's got to be pictures :ph34r: or maybe he had a backstage pass, lol.

Why is it funny that he wants to meet different people? That's what he should have done all this time and get out from the TB circle. He needs some Argentinian friends :max:

Yeah, it's strange there aren't more pictures of his stay here :max: I wish people had invaded his privacy a little more back then :lol:

What I find funny is that back then he wanted to meet people, while now he locks himself up everytime he comes here. :wacko:  You are right he totally needs some Argentinian friends! Wanna volunteer? :lol:

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48 minutes ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

It's beyond crazy to think that Alan Niven was putting black magic hexes on Axl. That's just seriously fucked. I don't believe in any of that stuff at all, but honestly if I found out that someone was dressing up in black robes and wishing horrible shit to happen to me, I'd be freaking out. 

Saying that Axl was singing for the devil when he was with AC/DC, I dunno, I suspect that might be Niven being a nasty shit and trying to get at Axl by associating what he was doing with the devil. Axl is scared of the devil, right? I bet Niven hoped Axl would read that crap and be scared. That's just how it seemed to me, that he'd hoped Axl would read that and feel bad. Like when someone once posted on here that he told him on the phone "oh great, you failed again" I can't remember what that was about though. 

People use magic and spelling (also in 21st. century, of course). From basic folk magic and rituals to complex spelling. It`s something in us which is sensitive and each and every person has own little rituals, some major rituals ("at least I am doing something" thing. Goes more serious when your life does not have course you want or have a series of serious bad luck, or happens something which you cannot understand... That "why me?" question). Axl mentioned himself at last once as a "cursed child". 

Desperate people do desperate things, you know. For love, power, revenge, whatever. If someone is predisposed to understand things in magical way, it`s a solution, religious people are more vulnerable. I was writing Tolkien`s runes in catholic school for art purposes and some schoolmates were seriously persuaded that I can cast spells and started to act with, ehm, greater respect. You can freak the shit out of people if you are at least average actor. On the other side, small rituals can be healing, it`s about the way you use it. 

They were all doing drugs at least occasionally. Coke can induce serious paranoia (which you will remember for rest of your life), some hallucinogens and it might leave you with serious impression that "there`s something outta there".

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5 hours ago, Tori72 said:

This. Always thought that about Niven. He has had the right feel (and some luck) as a manager to get Guns going and become succesful. But all this black magic shit is just too strange.

It's also too strange that Izzy is involved in this. lol As we don't know anything about the man, really, I might just as well be stranger, weirder and douchbaggier than we (I) want to think. :awesomeface: Izzy used to work with Niven again on JuJus, right? I remember an interview in which Izzy said he was upset that Niven got fired.

Anyway, the fact that Niven still talks bad about Axl he so unprofessional it just sucks.

Wasn't Niven the manager who tried to provide some lyrics? Axl response was telling him to be the manager and do his job and Axl'd do his and write lyrics. Which is a pretty accurate and somewhat mature/self confident reaction. 

4 hours ago, stella said:

Wow, I didn't hear that about Niven trying to give the band lyrics, but that does seem like overstepping boundaries. That wasn't his job at all, and Axl would have been right to call him on it.

Niven was able to handle the band when apparently a lot of other managers were scared off or weren't able to take on the job, but the amount of animosity he still has is really disturbing. Two decades have gone by, and it seems like he's still trying to smear Axl in the press at every turn. It's very unprofessional, and IMHO it's a huge red flag.

It seemed like Niven and Izzy teamed up after they were both done with GnR, yes. I do wonder about Izzy...during the olden days he was a heroin dealer. Not just a user, a *dealer*...that's something that requires some pretty hardcore associations and not good ones. Not that any of them were choir boys, but Izzy's right in there with shady stuff IMHO.

3 hours ago, Tori72 said:

Let me begin saying that I'm not sure wether it was Niven or someone else how tried to give in some lyrics. But I remember reading it.

The bolded: Oh yes. I love Izzy and his work but he certainly did some pretty disturbing things. It takes something to become a dealer and that is not only poverty. I totally agree with you on this.

Izzy did seem to be troubled / conscious about the dealing thing and maybe other stuff we don't know about later though. Everything is so shady about him in those days. I think he told Niven (?) that Steven Tyler (or someone else from Aerosmith) used to by heroin off of him and when they were supposed to go on tour with them Izzy got paranoid that it all came out. And some other situations in which Izzy seemed worried / troubled about his past. I think it got mentioned here before. @Frey do you happen to know something? Or the girls and boys from the No Gang.

1 hour ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

It's beyond crazy to think that Alan Niven was putting black magic hexes on Axl. That's just seriously fucked. I don't believe in any of that stuff at all, but honestly if I found out that someone was dressing up in black robes and wishing horrible shit to happen to me, I'd be freaking out. 

Saying that Axl was singing for the devil when he was with AC/DC, I dunno, I suspect that might be Niven being a nasty shit and trying to get at Axl by associating what he was doing with the devil. Axl is scared of the devil, right? I bet Niven hoped Axl would read that crap and be scared. That's just how it seemed to me, that he'd hoped Axl would read that and feel bad. Like when someone once posted on here that he told him on the phone "oh great, you failed again" I can't remember what that was about though. 

1) Izzy being paranoid about his past coming back to haunt him: Yes, Niven has mentioned this. In a rather recent interview too, iirc. Don't remember which one anymore though unfortuantely

2) Niven providing lyrics: Yes, true, according to Doug Goldstein. Axl took the lyrics and threw them out of the bus window, never to be seen again.

3) "Yet again you failed at something": Particularly nasty behavior by Niven, since that was part of his comments to Axl about his and Erin's marriage being annulled. He really rubbed it in too, telling Axl all about how great his marriage with his own wife was and how they'd be together forever or something. (Which didn't end up being the case, funnily enough).

 

@stella Points 2) and 3) are things Doug Goldstein said in a long-ass radio interview, the "highlights" of which @Lumikki transcribed in this post here.

Some pretty interesting stuff in there and worth reading (or listening to if you can stand listening to Dougie's voice lol)

Quote

- At one point Alan Niven handed Axl song lyrics on the bus. Axl opened the bus window and threw Niven's lyrics out, saying "I don't want my manager to hand me songs, I want you to be my manager."

Quote

- One day Dougie was talking to Axl on the phone about the annullment of his marriage to Erin, when Axl asked to talk to Niven. Dougie thought this was a great idea to get Niven back into Axl's good graces, but Niven wasn't having it. He took the phone and told Axl "Wow, how fucking sad for you. Yet again you failed at something. At the end of the day, when I lay my head down next to my wife, I know that we're together forever. Yet again you've managed to fuck something up." And then he hung up.

Now I'm the last person to excuse what Axl did to Erin and their marriage not working out was indeed mostly on Axl, but fuck. Could he be any more cruel? "Yet again you failed at something." "Yet again you've managed to fuck something up."  And rubbing his happy relationship with his wife under his nose. If this was the kind of manner in which he usually talked to Axl, then I really can't blame Axl for wanting to get rid of him. Not to mention that this kind of thing surely didn't help his insecurity issues and fears about not being good enough either. :facepalm:

Anyway, after that conversation, Dougie called Slash in desperation and asked him what to do because things between Axl and Niven clearly weren't getting better/working out again. But Slash was done with Niven too because Niven had apparently tried to fuck Slash's fiance Renee at a party, so Slash just said "I'm fucking done with this, I can't do this anymore. Ask him what he wants and pay him off." And that's how Niven's time in GNR ended.

(Purple stuff is Lumikki's comment)

 

1 hour ago, killuridols said:

Another nasty thing Niven did was taping a verbal-physical fight between Axl and Erin and put it in the middle of a song some other group he was managing had recorded. That's like very sick and horrible.

Last year Niven said Axl was singing for the devil and BS like that, so apparently he still believes in those crazy things. 

Isn't that just a rumor though? I tried looking this up once and found no real concrete evidence of it. I even listened to the dumb song I think and you can't really hear anything worth mentioning iirc. But if it's true, then yeah, seriously fucked up and shows what a douche Niven is.

 

------------------------------------

15 hours ago, Blackstar said:

I remember it, yes. It was under that story with the girl on the tour bus in 2012, here:

http://www.radiometal.com/article/behind-the-scenes-the-other-axl-rose,78375

The media has always misrepresented Axl Rose. When Guns n Roses came to Austin, TX Axl stopped in at the salon my mom owned the day of the concert and he was the kindest man. I was so star struck I had trouble even talking but my dad who was there to have lunch with my mom talked to him for quite a while. I will never forget as Axl was getting ready to leave my dad said « have a great concert son » and Axl had the biggest smile and said « I will, thank you ».

...

@Blackstar to the rescue again :lol:

Thanks, that's the one I meant.

Had forgotten about the bolded part. Gotta admit, that's kinda sweet.

 

17 hours ago, killuridols said:

:bitchfight:

I dont get off asses because I'm the ass eater, don't ya know???

image.png.fd5ab5adaa25172e835a837ad370dae9.png

How could I forget :facepalm:

14 hours ago, killuridols said:

What the... :ph34r:

tumblr_ojtchsiJ0i1vkt6tqo1_540.jpg

:smiley-confused2:

 

Edit: Is that Fermanager in the background, observing action?

^

This is what I imagine the "Women's Thread Party" to be like. :lol:

All of you are that blond chick, and Axl will look even more terrified than he does here.

(And yes, I think that's Nando keeping an eye on the action in the background. Creeepy. <_<)

 

 

Edited by Frey
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1 hour ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

It's beyond crazy to think that Alan Niven was putting black magic hexes on Axl. That's just seriously fucked. I don't believe in any of that stuff at all, but honestly if I found out that someone was dressing up in black robes and wishing horrible shit to happen to me, I'd be freaking out. 

Saying that Axl was singing for the devil when he was with AC/DC, I dunno, I suspect that might be Niven being a nasty shit and trying to get at Axl by associating what he was doing with the devil. Axl is scared of the devil, right? I bet Niven hoped Axl would read that crap and be scared. That's just how it seemed to me, that he'd hoped Axl would read that and feel bad. Like when someone once posted on here that he told him on the phone "oh great, you failed again" I can't remember what that was about though. 

Niven knows Axl believes in weird shit.... Now, I don't know what kind of "weird" shit that is. Hard to picture that he indeed believes in the devil... I don't think so. If he abandoned his fucked up religious beliefs from childhood then he shouldn't believe in God or Satan, but who knows.... 

Point is that I don't think it's too far-fetched to imagine a war of "black magic" and Yoda crap :lol:. I'm not surprised Niven would believe or be involved in that kind of stuff and I'm not surprised if Axl had asked Yoda to "protect" him or "clean" him from those spells, bad vibes, etc.

I am curious about that wristband Axl is wearing in the pictures from 2001 that I posted above. It looks like the type of jewelry they sell to "scare bad spirits away". Axl has always worn a watch but during this time that bracelet seem to have replaced the typical watch.

tumblr_ogsxilbAzT1vkt6tqo2_540.jpg

 

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1 hour ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

It's beyond crazy to think that Alan Niven was putting black magic hexes on Axl. That's just seriously fucked. I don't believe in any of that stuff at all, but honestly if I found out that someone was dressing up in black robes and wishing horrible shit to happen to me, I'd be freaking out. 

Saying that Axl was singing for the devil when he was with AC/DC, I dunno, I suspect that might be Niven being a nasty shit and trying to get at Axl by associating what he was doing with the devil. Axl is scared of the devil, right? I bet Niven hoped Axl would read that crap and be scared. That's just how it seemed to me, that he'd hoped Axl would read that and feel bad. Like when someone once posted on here that he told him on the phone "oh great, you failed again" I can't remember what that was about though. 

@Frey covered already the "you failed again" part.

I don't know if the devil is among the things Axl believes in/is scared of. Niven had talked shit about AC/DC before though, in that interview with Mitch Lafon.

In the same interview he bragged about him being the one who spread that rumour in the UK press that Axl had killed his dogs back in 1987:facepalm:

12 minutes ago, Frey said:

Isn't that just a rumor though? I tried looking this up once and found no real concrete evidence of it. I even listened to the dumb song I think and you can't really hear anything worth mentioning iirc. But if it's true, then yeah, seriously fucked up and shows what a docue Niven is.

Niven himself has admitted it. From Mick Wall's book:

The title track also featured a snippet of an answering phone message Erin once left for Niven, allegedly while Axl was being violent towards her. ‘Yes, I did use Erin,’ he admitted in an interview with the LA Times in 2016, ‘but I was hurt and angry and in the process of writing my anti-LA, anti-betrayal, anti-Goldstein content for the Psycho City album. So now you know.’

(and then follows the crap he did with the black magic stuff)

But yeah, I listened to the Great White song too and I couldn't hear anything like that.

 

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7 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

@Frey covered already the "you failed again" part.

I don't know if the devil is among the things Axl believes in/is scared of. Niven had talked shit about AC/DC before though, in that interview with Mitch Lafon.

In the same interview he bragged about him being the one who spread that rumour in the UK press that Axl had killed his dogs back in 1987:facepalm:

Niven himself has admitted it. From Mick Wall's book:

The title track also featured a snippet of an answering phone message Erin once left for Niven, allegedly while Axl was being violent towards her. ‘Yes, I did use Erin,’ he admitted in an interview with the LA Times in 2016, ‘but I was hurt and angry and in the process of writing my anti-LA, anti-betrayal, anti-Goldstein content for the Psycho City album. So now you know.’

(and then follows the crap he did with the black magic stuff)

But yeah, I listened to the Great White song too and I couldn't hear anything like that.

 

Yeah, he talked shit about AC/DC, seems to be because he had something to do with a rival of theirs called The Angels and he comes across as jealous they didn't get the same recognition as AC/DC did. He probably had a hand in their songwriting too. So he's jealous. 

How many times did Axl and Beta call Slash the Devil and he was the most evil of all :awesomeface:

On a different note, I watched some of those Maynard videos on YouTube :scared:

 

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30 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

@Frey covered already the "you failed again" part.

I don't know if the devil is among the things Axl believes in/is scared of. Niven had talked shit about AC/DC before though, in that interview with Mitch Lafon.

In the same interview he bragged about him being the one who spread that rumour in the UK press that Axl had killed his dogs back in 1987:facepalm:

Niven himself has admitted it. From Mick Wall's book:

The title track also featured a snippet of an answering phone message Erin once left for Niven, allegedly while Axl was being violent towards her. ‘Yes, I did use Erin,’ he admitted in an interview with the LA Times in 2016, ‘but I was hurt and angry and in the process of writing my anti-LA, anti-betrayal, anti-Goldstein content for the Psycho City album. So now you know.’

(and then follows the crap he did with the black magic stuff)

But yeah, I listened to the Great White song too and I couldn't hear anything like that.

 

Niven sounds like an absolutely horrible excuse for a person. Even as manager, it seems that he was spreading rumors that were openly damaging to both Axl and the band.

In terms of the "singing for the devil," it's just another one of Niven's many slams. He seems to be especially angry whenever Axl appears to be doing well. However, in evangelical Christianity the devil is a big, big deal - even though Axl's not in that particular faith anymore, there might still be some underlying unease about anyone saying he's doing something for the devil.

And saying songs have underlying messages that way...that is such an 80s thing.

Edited by stella
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39 minutes ago, Andy14 said:

:smiley-confused2:

3369134006_7d8ae91ff2.jpg

I definitely prefer this devil to any of the charlatans Axl sold his soul to in the past (TB included) :devilshades:

 

LMAO!! Angus is here to collect our souls :lol:

4 minutes ago, stella said:

Niven sounds like an absolutely horrible excuse for a person. Even as manager, it seems that he was spreading rumors that were openly damaging to both Axl and the band.

In terms of the "singing for the devil," it's just another one of Niven's many slams. He seems to be especially angry whenever Axl appears to be doing well. However, in evangelical Christianity the devil is a big, big deal - even though Axl's not in that particular faith anymore, there might still be some underlying unease about anyone saying he's doing something for the devil.

And saying songs have underlying messages that way...that is such an 80s thing.

That's how I meant it, but you're much better with the words than me :hug:

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35 minutes ago, beautifulanddamned said:

The thing with Izzy being a drug dealer is that as a dealer he was in a business situation with very dangerous set of people. Imagine these people finding out that he was suddenly a multi-millionaire. I honestly think  that going back to Indiana, or traveling around Europe wasn't just something Izzy wanted to do, it was the safest thing for him to do. Literal escape. This interview with Marc Cantor is interesting because the interviewer asks about Izzy quite a bit. In it, Marc says that in 2006, Izzy was aware that Desi was still fucked up on drugs. That's interesting because it implies that Desi may have been trying to get in touch with Izzy (how else would he know?) which is....uncomfortable to say the very least. Desi was his partner in crime, she knows where the bodies were buried. She was also underage while Izzy was with her. Kind of puts a different spin on why Izzy doesn't like publicity and shies away from the limelight. Maybe it's not just "flakiness" or "unreliability." He has a reason to be paranoid. Puts Izzy between a rock and a hard place in some ways... he can't defend himself against the hits on his rep without bringing up his past.

Interesting stuff. Not sure whether the traveling stuff is due to Izzys paranoia. Sounds possible enough though. I never knew that Desi was underage. From the photos I saw of her I never would have guessed. Do you remember where you read she was underage?

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1 hour ago, killuridols said:

Niven knows Axl believes in weird shit.... Now, I don't know what kind of "weird" shit that is. Hard to picture that he indeed believes in the devil... I don't think so. If he abandoned his fucked up religious beliefs from childhood then he shouldn't believe in God or Satan, but who knows.... 

Point is that I don't think it's too far-fetched to imagine a war of "black magic" and Yoda crap :lol:. I'm not surprised Niven would believe or be involved in that kind of stuff and I'm not surprised if Axl had asked Yoda to "protect" him or "clean" him from those spells, bad vibes, etc.

I am curious about that wristband Axl is wearing in the pictures from 2001 that I posted above. It looks like the type of jewelry they sell to "scare bad spirits away". Axl has always worn a watch but during this time that bracelet seem to have replaced the typical watch.

tumblr_ogsxilbAzT1vkt6tqo2_540.jpg

 

I noticed the bracelet too and that was my immediate thought as well, some kind of magic crystal thing going on. 

In the town where I live now there used to be a little shop that sold this kind of thing, they used to do reading tarot cards and tea leaves in it :lol: They sold all these magic crystals and such and they had those type of bracelets, the lady in there would go on about how green was healing, all the green stones were for healing. The shop was in a place where the water is famed in history for its curing qualities (I kid you not, this water is famous in England :lol:

Could be a healing bracelet for some kind of illness :question:

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1 minute ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

I noticed the bracelet too and that was my immediate thought as well, some kind of magic crystal thing going on. 

In the town where I live now there used to be a little shop that sold this kind of thing, they used to do reading tarot cards and tea leaves in it :lol: They sold all these magic crystals and such and they had those type of bracelets, the lady in there would go on about how green was healing, all the green stones were for healing. The shop was in a place where the water is famed in history for its curing qualities (I kid you not, this water is famous in England :lol:

Could be a healing bracelet for some kind of illness :question:

That looks like a Native American turquoise bracelet. There are a number of Native American Nations in the Southwest USA (Arizona, New Mexico) that make silver and turquoise jewelry. It's a huge draw and it's a very common souvenir from the Southwest. There's cheap stuff that's $10 in any gift shop in Arizona or NM and then on the other end of the scale there are really complex, well-designed handmade pieces that go for thousands of dollars. While some of it may hold spiritual significance to the wearer, quite often people buy it because they like how it looks, because they want to support Native American craftspeople, or because they went to the Southwest on vacation and think it's a nice souvenir. I had a pair of turquoise earrings as a kid, and there was nothing behind it except that the color was nice and the earrings were well made.

You can see there are some bracelets on this page that look a lot like Axl's. http://www.eaglerocktradingpost.com/native-american-turquoise-bracelets/

We know Axl was in Arizona in the wilderness years because of that arrest.

 

 

1 hour ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

That's how I meant it, but you're much better with the words than me :hug:

Thank you. :):hug::hug:

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23 minutes ago, Tori72 said:

Interesting stuff. Not sure whether the traveling stuff is due to Izzys paranoia. Sounds possible enough though. I never knew that Desi was underage. From the photos I saw of her I never would have guessed. Do you remember where you read she was underage?

It's in Reckless Road in the Cast of Characters preamble. 

"Her relationship and affiliation with the band ended when they signed with Geffen Records; she was underage and they wanted to avoid potential legal liabilities."  

It's on page 6.

Caveat with this book though- almost all of these people are unreliable narrators.  

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1 hour ago, beautifulanddamned said:

The thing with Izzy being a drug dealer is that as a dealer he was in a business situation with very dangerous set of people. Imagine these people finding out that he was suddenly a multi-millionaire. I honestly think  that going back to Indiana, or traveling around Europe wasn't just something Izzy wanted to do, it was the safest thing for him to do. Literal escape. This interview with Marc Cantor is interesting because the interviewer asks about Izzy quite a bit. In it, Marc says that in 2006, Izzy was aware that Desi was still fucked up on drugs. That's interesting because it implies that Desi may have been trying to get in touch with Izzy (how else would he know?) which is....uncomfortable to say the very least. Desi was his partner in crime, she knows where the bodies were buried. She was also underage while Izzy was with her. Kind of puts a different spin on why Izzy doesn't like publicity and shies away from the limelight. Maybe it's not just "flakiness" or "unreliability." He has a reason to be paranoid. Puts Izzy between a rock and a hard place in some ways... he can't defend himself against the hits on his rep without bringing up his past.

That's a really good observation. I was trying to get at the fact that being a dealer meant that he had associations with a very shady, dangerous element, but you have really expanded on that. And of course dealing heroin is a criminal act in itself. Add in Desi, and...yeah. that does have repercussions. It's an excellent point that Izzy's history of evasiveness may be a matter of self-preservation and not wanting to incriminate himself.

 

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34 minutes ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

I noticed the bracelet too and that was my immediate thought as well, some kind of magic crystal thing going on. 

In the town where I live now there used to be a little shop that sold this kind of thing, they used to do reading tarot cards and tea leaves in it :lol: They sold all these magic crystals and such and they had those type of bracelets, the lady in there would go on about how green was healing, all the green stones were for healing. The shop was in a place where the water is famed in history for its curing qualities (I kid you not, this water is famous in England :lol:

Could be a healing bracelet for some kind of illness :question:

People got rid of magical to more rational world recently, in less than 100 years (when education started to be wide available). But there are still many things which are not rationally explainable, so people go for magic. Yes, this is internet forum, we can pretend we are pretty rational, but when times go hard or you meet borderline state like dying, you start doing rituals. Science goes aside then, honestly.

20 minutes ago, stella said:

That looks like a Native American turquoise bracelet. There are a number of Native American Nations in the Southwest USA (Arizona, New Mexico) that make silver and turquoise jewelry. It's a huge draw and it's a very common souvenir from the Southwest. There's cheap stuff that's $10 in any gift shop in Arizona or NM and then on the other end of the scale there are really complex, well-designed handmade pieces that go for thousands of dollars. While some of it may hold spiritual significance to the wearer, quite often people buy it because they like how it looks, because they want to support Native American craftspeople, or because they went to the Southwest on vacation and think it's a nice souvenir. I had a pair of turquoise earrings as a kid, and there was nothing behind it except that the color was nice and the earrings were well made.

You can see there are some bracelets on this page that look a lot like Axl's. http://www.eaglerocktradingpost.com/native-american-turquoise-bracelets/

We know Axl was in Arizona in the wilderness years because of that arrest.

 

 

Thank you. :):hug::hug:

If it speaks to you, it works. Doesn`t mater if it`s a mere cheap souvenir or personalized thing made of precious materials. Even others can feel that particular thing fits you or it`s a kind of "magical". 

Edited by Alja
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14 hours ago, killuridols said:

These are cool....

tumblr_oipi5pwV7p1vkt6tqo2_540.jpg  

tumblr_oipi5pwV7p1vkt6tqo1_540.jpg

 

When was thia? :huh:

13 hours ago, killuridols said:

Nest is awful but 2001 he looks worse than any other years (also 2000 and 2002). Not only hair but the outfits are the "awfulest" :scared:

I found these....

tumblr_ogsxeyWzEU1vkt6tqo1_1280.jpg

tumblr_ogsxilbAzT1vkt6tqo1_540.jpg

tumblr_ogsxilbAzT1vkt6tqo2_540.jpg

tumblr_ogsxqmkkNk1vkt6tqo2_400.jpg

axl_alex3.jpg

tumblr_ogsxnhXT2L1vkt6tqo1_400.jpg

axl1%20-%20Copy.jpg

16276104491_3c818d86f2.jpg

CCD2F546E.jpg

6s3xjn.jpg

VFFZXcD.jpg

15658009993_a78438acee_o.jpg

7cd858d465.png

 

This is why Axl needs His Ex Boyfriend 

He needs Izzy instead of Amiri:smiley-confused2:

Edited by SerenityScorp
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7 minutes ago, Alja said:

People got rid of magical to more rational world recently, in less than 100 years (when education started to be wide available). But there are still many things which are not rationally explainable, so people go for magic. Yes, this is internet forum, we can pretend we are pretty rational, but when times go hard or you meet borderline state like dying, you start doing rituals. Science goes aside then, honestly.

If it speaks to you, it works. Doesn`t mater if it`s a mere cheap souvenir or personalized thing made of precious materials. Even others can feel that particular thing fits you or it`s a kind of "magical". 

Oh, totally, I believe that too. I was just trying to say that that particular type of jewelry isn't sold or presented as being any sort of healing or magical thing here, for the most part.

In fact there is usually a lot of care taken *not* to sell or present it as any sort of Native American religious or spiritual symbol out of respect...because there have been a lot of Native American rituals/symbols that have been stolen and appropriated already.

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12 minutes ago, stella said:

That's a really good observation. I was trying to get at the fact that being a dealer meant that he had associations with a very shady, dangerous element, but you have really expanded on that. And of course dealing heroin is a criminal act in itself. Add in Desi, and...yeah. that does have repercussions. It's an excellent point that Izzy's history of evasiveness may be a matter of self-preservation and not wanting to incriminate himself.

 

This thread goes a little bit further into Izzy's mindset as well:

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It's interesting that Beta told Marc that Izzy was upset with the drug stories in Slash's book. It would be impossible for any member of this band to write an autobiography that didn't talk about their substance abuse. It had such an impact on their experiences and the band's image. And I don't remember any drug stories in Slash's book being overly accusatory or anything. The sex with the same girl story was more embarrassing then any of the drug stories.  

Anyway, how stupid was Marc to bring up the fact that Desi and Pamela would be there on the same day as Izzy?! Jesus, man. It's the ultimate :facepalm:. You haul that out on someone you know to be skittish about the past?

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2 minutes ago, stella said:

Oh, totally, I believe that too. I was just trying to say that that particular type of jewelry isn't sold or presented as being any sort of healing or magical thing here, for the most part.

In fact there is usually a lot of care taken *not* to sell or present it as any sort of Native American religious or spiritual symbol out of respect...because there have been a lot of Native American rituals/symbols that have been stolen and appropriated already.

I wear crazy colorful socks to work against grumpy morons. They did not sell them as magic or amulet or something, but it works because you don`t fall into certain people`s drama if you keep in mind that you wear crazy colorful socks they cannot see. I love to travel the world and yes, there are lot of places selling you any trinket as native magic. On the other side, many things are sold like local craft from ordinary people to support the community, nothing else. My rule is not bring home magic I don`t know. Some of the things you can buy are scary. 

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3 hours ago, Alja said:

I wear crazy colorful socks to work against grumpy morons. They did not sell them as magic or amulet or something, but it works because you don`t fall into certain people`s drama if you keep in mind that you wear crazy colorful socks they cannot see. I love to travel the world and yes, there are lot of places selling you any trinket as native magic. On the other side, many things are sold like local craft from ordinary people to support the community, nothing else. My rule is not bring home magic I don`t know. Some of the things you can buy are scary. 

Love the socks! :)

I think our wires are getting crossed a little. :) I agree that anything can be seen as magical, but when we were talking about that piece, we were talking about something very common as decorative jewelry in the USA. Someone buying and wearing it in the USA would be much more likely to be wearing it as a fashion statement and not anything more.

Also, specifically in the USA - not elsewhere - most stores would NOT sell turquoise as "native magic" because there is a long history here with Native Americans. Native Americans were abused and killed by the European settlers who came in, and even in the 20th century the USA and Canada were doing horrible things to Native Americans. And a lot of their sacred, religious symbols were stolen and misused. Like have you ever seen a person wearing an "Indian headdress?" That's actually something very sacred in some Native American tribes, but people around the world wear it for fashion now without thinking of what it means. Dream catchers are another one - you can buy a dream catcher made by an actual Native American with intent, but it's also been appropriated and now they mass-produce dream catchers in factories in China for profit.

So in the USA Axl wouldn't have been buying a bracelet like this as "native magic" and that's not something typically worn for spiritual practices here. It doesn't mean that *he* might not have given some special significance to it, but it does mean that it wouldn't normally be used or presented in that context here.

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