GNR Women's Discussion - Part 2

[stella]

I've just read through the last few pages...

@BlueJean Baby, thank you for sharing what happened to you. I am very glad that you were able to get away from that, and I hope that you will continue to stay safe. <3

As to what else has been said...@Blackstar, I agree that the victim should never be blamed. But the one thing I want to comment on in your post that *is* a bit like victim blaming is saying that someone didn't have the "strength or will" to leave. IMHO it's not about that at all. DV is like being in a hostage situation from what I have been told. You can't just walk out of it, any more than a hostage can walk out of a standoff.

You can be the strongest person in the world, but if you are trapped without any discernible resources or allies that can help you, your options are nil. Not every town has a crisis center or shelter who can help women get out of an abusive relationship; even if it does exist, a woman might not be able to contact them.

They might worry about the safety of their children if they leave. If they're in the house with the kids they at least have a chance of stopping them from being abused; if they're away on visitation with the abusive parent, that option goes away (and one would be shocked by just how often the American courts will give at least partial custody and visitation to abusive parents...even rapists. It's a horrifying truth that some women who were raped end up seeing and dealing with their rapist for the next 18 years because the scumbag sued for, and received, parental rights to the kid conceived from the rape).

There also might be conditioning from the religion they were raised in, growing up in a house where *they* witnessed abuse and learned to model relationships from it, and all the psychological abuse that DVers put their victims through. They might have PTSD, depression, anxiety or other conditions as a result of DV.

Law enforcement doesn't do a great job of protecting women who have escaped, and orders of protection are often worthless.

While I have experienced other abuse, I have not been in a DV relationship. I have friends who have. I have one friend in particular whose life would be in danger if her ex ever found her. The only reason they got out was because they had access to resources and help. Instead of talking about why people don't leave DV situations we need to be talking about ways to establish more resources so they *can* leave.

[Blackstar]

1 hour ago, stella said:

As to what else has been said...@Blackstar, I agree that the victim should never be blamed. But the one thing I want to comment on in your post that *is* a bit like victim blaming is saying that someone didn't have the "strength or will" to leave. IMHO it's not about that at all. DV is like being in a hostage situation from what I have been told. You can't just walk out of it, any more than a hostage can walk out of a standoff.

You can be the strongest person in the world, but if you are trapped without any discernible resources or allies that can help you, your options are nil. Not every town has a crisis center or shelter who can help women get out of an abusive relationship; even if it does exist, a woman might not be able to contact them.

They might worry about the safety of their children if they leave. If they're in the house with the kids they at least have a chance of stopping them from being abused; if they're away on visitation with the abusive parent, that option goes away (and one would be shocked by just how often the American courts will give at least partial custody and visitation to abusive parents...even rapists. It's a horrifying truth that some women who were raped end up seeing and dealing with their rapist for the next 18 years because the scumbag sued for, and received, parental rights to the kid conceived from the rape).

There also might be conditioning from the religion they were raised in, growing up in a house where *they* witnessed abuse and learned to model relationships from it, and all the psychological abuse that DVers put their victims through. They might have PTSD, depression, anxiety or other conditions as a result of DV.

Law enforcement doesn't do a great job of protecting women who have escaped, and orders of protection are often worthless.

While I have experienced other abuse, I have not been in a DV relationship. I have friends who have. I have one friend in particular whose life would be in danger if her ex ever found her. The only reason they got out was because they had access to resources and help. Instead of talking about why people don't leave DV situations we need to be talking about ways to establish more resources so they *can* leave.

I don't disagree with all this. Not blaming the victim is a general principle in regards to DV, as much as in regards to rape. However, even in this issue, it's not all black and white and each DV case is different (although there are common patterns in the ways perpetrators act - e.g. blaming the victim for "provoking" the abuse) and I was talking about two particular cases I happen to know about.

Yes, in many DV cases (probably the vast majority of them) it's not a matter of strength and will for the reasons you presented. But when none of these obstacles (children, lack of resources and support, financial dependency, religious beliefs) is present, a question of choice and will might arise, especially if the monotonous answer after each DV incident is "yes, but I don't want to go to a psychologist - I love him and I can't live without him" (despite "if", this is not hypothetical).

Edited May 1, 2017 by Blackstar

[MillionsOfSpiders]

Julliana Sedbrook breaks the silence and tells of her days with Axl.
Exclusively for DailyBetter Group © she tells her days with GN'R, and Axl's son who never was. December 2009

Welcome to the Jungle is perfect introduction to one the greatest RN’R album ever, Appetite For Destruction, and the video introduce us to the classic line up, and with them one the luckiest person who was witness of the birth of GUNS N’ ROSES.
Julianna Sedbrook is the girl that in 1987 had the honor to be in which is the first video of the band, video of the Welcome to the Jungle song, because of Steve’s call, which one she used to share not just her house with, but also a great friendship. Today a mother of two beautiful girls, she’s back in city that joined her to the so – called bad boys, California, and ready to be in touch with her past. She shares exclusively on his first and revealing interview the trunk of her most cherished memories. DailyBetter Group© was fortunate to be able to contact her and after several talks, she given one of the strongest interviews that we have done, not only by the importance of Juliana in the beginning of the legend of Guns N 'Roses, but also for the data cast that, for us, were absolutely unknown. A life history and deeply rooted feelings of Axl Rose, has broken the silence after more than 20 years and she has wanted to provide with the highest respect and affection. But by the time this interview was arming, a person posing as Rose and asked that gently unpublished photos she scanned for us and were published without her authorization, making everything work, confidence and effort see damaged. We strongly condemn this act that only serves to prevent persons of this type give better data. We try to tell a story that was never told, the history of a man who barely became one of the most loved and hated in the world of music, and history can only be told by him and those who I have surrounded and loved so much.
Exit interview with you from the bottom, a silence broken, a strong affection and loyalty to the greatest character in this story, the story of Guns N 'Roses.

DB: How and when did you meet the band?

Julianna Sedbrook: I met them at clubs at 1st, then me and my best friend Lisa Abbate moved to LA and we moved across the street from one of GN’Rs hangouts. It was the NY (New York) boys house were Del James and West Arkeen (the co-writer for it’s so easy) and Axl’s side band “Smith&Wesson”) all lived, billy (who designed Axls cross tatoo and the 2nd cover to Appetite) lived there also with Reed, and a couple others, everyone used to get together and play under the name "The Drunk Fux", Slash would play, Duff, sometimes Axl, Del James, Todd Crew (RIP who was in Jet Boy), it was great mostly cover songs, all the girls would get on stage and dance and sing back up vocals. A lot of parties were held there, I have some funny photos from there! Steven was homeless, so we asked him if he wanted to move in a spare “washroom” we had it was big enough for his bed and TV had a private entrance and rent was only $100.00 a month, he moved in right away! Then I met Adriana, they were dating and all the band and friends of theirs were always there, we used to have their “band meetings” there as well.

DB: How did you do to be the girl in WTTJ Video? Did it influence or made any difference in your personal life?

JS: I was actually sick at the time and got a phone call from Steven saying, Axl didn’t like the girls Geffen had sent down to do the video and he wanted me to do it, so sick, I went down “for the band” lol and we filmed ALL night. After the video was done, Axl came back to my house and spent the night, it was our 1st time together and it was amazing. It has made a difference in my life in many ways, just being seen on tv is strange for me, I remember when they had their 1st tour to England, me and Lisa went too- I saw the welcome video on TV at the hotel, it was surreal! Then at the show, people wanted my autograph, it was a lot of fun, I had some great pics Robert John took of me and Axl before a The Cult show, I would love to get copies of, they were really nice just of me and him. The video connects me to them forever and he used it again in the “Patience” video, Axl’s sitting on the couch, looking like he’s thinking back on his life and he’s watching the “Welcome” video with the parts of me in it, it’s sweet.

DB: What can you tell us about the recording of Appetite For Destruction and the recording of the WTTJ video?

JS: I know it took awhile, Axl had about 4 different producers, he’s a perfectionist and wanted it just right, he sure did it too- that album is one of the best ever! I remember how excited Steven was, I have a picture of him and Ronnie the roadman in his “room” in our house holding the Original cover album in his hand, finally it was out and the rest was history! They just blew up world wide! The video was just like making any video although I can say that the scene where Axl is in the electric chair with the metal band around his head, he was shaking around so violently he cut up his forehead.

DB: You have the luck to be in some tours, in shows, etc, How was the band backstage? Any story or tale that you remember?

JS: Well the early shows were always fun, they were soooo crazy. But I think my favorite was when they went on tour w/ the cult we all went to the LA show, and I spent the night in Axls room with him, Adriana Smith called up and wanted to sleep with us, she seemed to be there in a lot of my sexual experiences hahahaha, not a part of it, just there : ) then the next night they played in San Diego and we drove down there and when we got there he said to me “you’re a sight for sore eyes” he gave me a rose ”which I still have“ and after the show, grabbed me by the hand and led me to the bus so we could have some “private time “. It was a sweet couple days.

DB: What kind of relationship did you have with the members of the band or If you had one in particular with one of them? Any memory with each of them that can you share?

JS: I had a great friendship with Steven, he’s such a sweet person with such a good heart!, his addiction started getting bad while he was living with me, it was sad, but it was nothing compared to how bad it ended up. Slash used to come over to mine and Adriana Smiths house when we lived together; we had some fun times there. Mostly, it was always Axl, my favorite time, and it was the last time I saw him. We met up at the coconut teazer I think ?? but drove back to his place in his “favorite” black BMW, we spent about 3 days together, just doing normal things ,watching movies, eating frozen pizzas, he would go to interviews I went to work, I was dancing then too, and would go back over to his house after work. We had a BEAUTIFUL time together. He was so romantic and gentle with me, he would wash me with a warm wash cloth, etc. just the really amazing Axl that I love. He played piano which will bring tears to your eyes and chills to your arms, it’s so pretty!

He ended up having a depressive episode and I told him I would always love him (he had locked himself in the bathroom) and always be there for him no matter what and I left….. sad ending to one of my best memories, besides having my kids : ) but my love when I love someone is unconditional and it never ends… I miss him so much and it would mean so much to me to be able to be in contact with him or have him in my life, now that I’m back in LA, Cali again.

DB: Why and when did you get away from the band?

JS: Well I never have EVER revealed this to anyone before! After the 3 days me and Axl spent together, I turned up pregnant, I had a miscarriage as I was partying like a mad women, we all were, but it killed me losing our baby (he doesn’t even know this!) I know Axl has always wanted kids and the women he has dated that had them, he has always gotten very close to. I started dating another talented musician named Giovanni and we moved into together, I was still dancing, and I got pregnant with my GORGEOUS daughter Angelina, and dropped out of the “LA” scene. That’s what made it so hard for Marc Canter to find me for his book, or anyone else I was close to as well. I went through some serious downs in my life and have in the past 9 years made it great again, I have had another baby girl who is now 2 her name is Lilianna, and is Amazing and so beautiful! She’s made my life worth living when at times I thought it wasn’t worth it anymore.

DB: When you found out about your pregnancy, did you try to contac Axl?

JS: No, I told no-one, it broke my heart, even though I don’t think having a child with him at that time would have been good for either of us, I was devastated as I loved him so much but I never told anyone, until now, i figure enough time has passed, I have healed emotionally enough to make it public, and I am curious to know how he would feel about it, but I may never get an answer to that. I never told him, because I lost it before I had a chance to, so I never really got a chance to make a choice if I/we wanted to keep it, so I never said anything.

DB: Are you still in touch with any of them? When and how was the last time did you see one of them?

JS: Yes I’m in contact with Steven, and so happy to be talking with him again and know his life is on track and he’s happy has a great wife. He deserves the best!. I haven’t talked with the rest of them in a very long time and just in the past year started putting myself back out there to be able to be found and would love to get back in contact with them.

DB: How was you relationship with Axl? Any fun, crazy or amazing memory that you still remember of him or private time that want to share?

JS: As I said my relationship with Axl was special, amazing and strange all at the same time, fun, crazy, and sweet. I previously told my favorite story of him and me together, of all I miss him the most because what we shared in private was something special between just him and me. I also miss Steven, we had a great friendship, he’s so funny.

DB: In the times that you spent with Axl, how was he at personal level with family and friends?

JS: Very different then with the public, he was different with different people though, I have heard he threw girls out of his house naked and told them basically to F__K off.. but I never experienced that side of him, I have seen him cause a lot of throwing bottles etc. in clubs but he was crazy at times. He had a lot of issues with his family I really don’t want to get into though it is his personal deamons.

DB: Did you meet Erin Everly? Do you remember how was the relationship between Axl and Erin?

JS: Yes I met Erin several times, she didn’t like me for obvious reasons, I always thought she was his (Axl) true love, but they had a STRANGE relationship and volatile as well. Yet very loving too, they had many physical fights etc, but she was a lot younger than him (so was I), but I do know they loved each other.

DB: What can you tell us about this triangles? Adriana, Steve and Axl?

JS: The making of rocket queen with Adrianas background part did cause a lot of waves for all 3 of them. Adriana is a free spirit and did and I’m sure still does do what she wants at the moment, and lives for today, as I do now myself!! Barbi however gets very little credit for the song and it was written for her, Adrianna just did “backups” but it has given her a huge amount of attention. She is a sweetheart and we had some really great times together and I always wish her the best too! It is a great song and the end lyrics are so sweet.

DB: Did you meet those people? And if you did what can you tell us about them?

Vicky Hamilton I don’t recall meeting her, but of course heard a lot about her, I got my copy of the video and album from Geffen, I’m not sure if it was her personally, but she helped them get off the ground!

Paul Tobias I never met that I re-call. It was a long time ago.LOL

The girl in Axl’s tattoo The girl in Axl’s tattoo I have heard many stories around that and the one thing I do know, it’s a beautiful song!!!!!

DB: Tell us about you, your life, your dauther and your family! How are you today? How has been your life since then?

JS: Both my daughters are great my oldest Angelina is in college with a 4.0 average : ) I’m a proud mama .. my littlest Lilianna is amazing she’s ½ Dominican so at 2 she speaks both English and Spanish. And she’s so beautiful, both are!, my life is good now, I love animals, we have 2 dogs and a cat which is a small amount, I usually have a Zoo hahahaha.. They are my family, I don’t have contact with my other family, I have a brother in Seattle, who’s very kool! And my biological father died when I was 12 years old.

DB: What did it make you come back to LA, California?

JS: I came back to LA, Cali from NY because I grew up here and have family here, a better place to raise my baby

DB: What do you feel when you see the video these days? What memories come up to your head?

JS: So many, sometimes I cry, others I smile and laugh, I miss those days, but you can’t live in the past, you have to live for the day! So I try to do that and know I have had a life many would have loved to have had!

DB: Looking back how do you remember those years?

JS: The best in my life! They really were, I had more fun then, than anytime I can remember.

DB: What do you think about CHINESE DEMOCRACY and Guns N’ Roses nowdays?

JS:It’s very different then the old GN’R but I think Axl has what he wants – it his way, I actually haven’t even listened to to CD yet, I will but I’m just happy all of them continue to do what they love and what they are so good at~ making GREAT Rock n Roll!!!!

Thank you so much for hearing my input in the making of GN’Rs beginning; there are so many people who were there. I feel privileged to have been apart of it. Thanks again and much love to all the members of GN’R… I love you always~ Julie “The Welcome To The Jungle Girl”

Thanks Julie, DailyBetter Group © sends you our warmest greetings and we really appreciate your confidence and choice of providing this great interview, We're sorry about the pictures. Thanks to you we know a little more about the history of Guns N 'Roses, we hopefully that Axl give you a chance to see he someday. We communicate to Rose this interview and data have been provided with the deepest respect that we have him for the sole purpose of being able to help put together a nice history with a happy ending.

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----------------------------

Sorry if this is derailing the current conversation  I already spent ages being indecisive about posting this, after speaking to @killuridols and @Blackstar who both helped me to figure there may at least a little of bit truth to what this she says, I decided to just put it in here and see what other people think. 

It's a shame the original links are dead to the source of the interview. I found it posted to another GNR forum. 

http://www.newgnr.com/forum/index.php?topic=45039.0

[SerenityScorp]

 

[killuridols]

Making up cases of DV to prove ridiculous points that do not exist must be the lamest thing I've seen done in this thread.

The ignorance and arrogance of some people is just making me shake my head in disbelief that "winning" an arguement in a forum is far more important than listening to the actual victims of DV and trying to understand their problems.

[SerenityScorp]

"when we got there he said to me “you’re a sight for sore eyes” he gave me a rose ”which I still have“ and after the show"

 

 

 

 

"He was so romantic and gentle with me, he would wash me with a warm wash cloth, etc. just the really amazing Axl that I love. He played piano which will bring tears to your eyes and chills to your arms, it’s so pretty!"

 

Seems like Axl always making sweet gesture to People/Girls He likes 

 

N'Slash 

Why didnt They ask about Slash N'Axl relationship 

Edited May 1, 2017 by SerenityScorp

[Frey]

@MillionsOfSpiders Uuhm yeah, change of topic might be a good idea, especially since everything that needs to be said on the DV issue has already been said anyway.

Anyway, interesting find. Good to know I'm not the only one who sometimes finds weird shit in other places and then gets the urge to post it here lol.

About that interview (assuming it's legit, which it does kind of look like to me)... seems like another girl of the "Axl was always very sweet to me and always treated me right" variety, similar to Jennifer Driver and a couple of others. It's interesting that these women's experiences vary so much across the board. Also similar in some ways to what Gina Siler has said about Axl being sweet and gentle in bed. The contrast to... uuh, other stories we've heard is staggering. He's a case for a criminal profiler or something.

 

Quote

JS: Well I never have EVER revealed this to anyone before! After the 3 days me and Axl spent together, I turned up pregnant, I had a miscarriage as I was partying like a mad women, we all were, but it killed me losing our baby (he doesn’t even know this!) I know Axl has always wanted kids and the women he has dated that had them, he has always gotten very close to.

Well, that would be the second women Axl knocked up that we know of then, so I think we can throw the infertility theory out of the window.

Also, has Axl dated any other women with children, besides Stephanie Seymour?? The way Julianna says this, she makes it sound as if there were more than Steph.

 

18 hours ago, Tori72 said:

Right 

What I meant with "we know he will do that or something else again" is that Erin took him back and held him and Axl seemed to be grateful for that. It sounds so touching when reading this but we know how he treated Erin only a couple of month/years later, so it is actually kind of sad.

Aaand "Makes your fantasy conversation ever more plausible though" is my totally logical assumption that as Axl and Izzy shared a room, the conversation between Izzy and Steven (and therefore the rest of your fantasy of course) has happend. Jeez, I tend to get more confusing when I have to explain myself. 

In short:

1. Axl is gonna treat Erin badly but sounds so cute in that letter

2. Axl and Izzy shared a room and therefore Slaxl has been proved.

Right? Right! 

Okay, RIGHT.

 

17 hours ago, killuridols said:

Duff is adorable!!!!!   

 

 

Duff's dad dance moves

Seriously though, cute video.

 

9 hours ago, SerenityScorp said:

Better than Slash house

http://www.alternativenation.net/guns-n-roses-member-3-85-million-mansion-blow-you-away/

Better than Slash's house indeed.

But to be fair, it probably doesn't take much to decorate a better looking home than the nightmare Perla created

 

 

 

[SerenityScorp]

@Frey 

If it was Slash tht decorating His house maybe He will decorate it with lots of horror porn N'dino/reptile stuff

 

Also He will make His secret chamber full of Axl Rose photo N' stuff 

 

[killuridols]

3 hours ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

Sorry if this is derailing the current conversation  I already spent ages being indecisive about posting this

Ok. I will say what i already told you about this...

I think it is possible that she had a brief encounter with Axl, like so many others did in those wild years of sex, drugs and rock n roll.

About Axl being charming and sweet... well, he wanted to get laid, so I really doubt he would be awful  

This doesnt mean or say much to me about how he treated the ones who had a steady relationship with him. They are different scenarios.

About the pregnancy.... same thing. It can be true or not. How would we know anyway? It is easy to make up a story like that then say it miscarried. 

What i've been told about this woman is that she claims to have had a relationship with Axl. Details of it sound to be oversized and in general, it seems no ones gives her too much credit for it.

I really dont see the point of her speaking about that.... But this interview is from 2009, so that makes it a long time ago too.

 

[Tori72]

@BlueJean Baby thank you for sharing your story here. So very heartbreaking. Just wanted to let you know that I'm sorry you and your son had to go through this hell and still do to some part. Can't believe how much he was able to get away with the shit he'd done. Wish you all the best! 

And yeah, I gotta go back to where the discussion about domestic violence kind of stopped. What has been done in the latest post by Alja was classic derailing and I wanna point it out because it is often experienced in discussions about violence towards women. The aim of derailing is to bring the subject of discussion to something else. The subject was domestic violence towards women and how important it is to understand that the one who abuses has the responsibility and never ever the victim. To go and say, "yeah, but also men are victims of dv and elder people" etc. True, they are. But only to an incredibly smaller amount. There are statistics about those things. It is simply like: "apples are green". - "Yeah, but also grass is green". Right, but we were talking about apples. Whatever is going on with grass has nothing to do with apples.

Whatever happens to some men or elders has nothing to do with dv towards women and the fact that a victim is never responsible. 

On how to help victims, I learned that you cannot force anyone to stop a relationship and seek help. You can only offer to be there, to listen and sensitivly tell her that she does not deserve to live like this, that she does not deserve to be treated like this. That there is professional help out there. We had this discussion also about how to help Axl, whether now or in the past. Opinions vary here. I go with the side that says forced help doesn't work and as, I think @MillionsOfSpiders described, has complex psychological structure running that might alienate the victim from her friends and allys.

 

About @MillionsOfSpiders's story of Juliana....

14 minutes ago, killuridols said:

Ok. I will say what i already told you about this...

I think it is possible that she had a brief encounter with Axl, like so many others did in those wild years of sex, drugs and rock n roll.

About Axl being charming and sweet... well, he wanted to get laid, so I really doubt he would be awful  

This doesnt mean or say much to me about how he treated the ones who had a steady relationship with him. They are different scenarios.

About the pregnancy.... same thing. It can be true or not. How would we know anyway? It is easy to make up a story like that then say it miscarried. 

What i've been told about this woman is that she claims to have had a relationship with Axl. Details of it sound to be oversized and in general, it seems no ones gives her too much credit for it.

I really dont see the point of her speaking about that.... But this interview is from 2009, so that makes it a long time ago too.

 

This. Might be true, maybe not. Might be exaggerated, might not. I don't think it is totally made up but this is only a gut feeling. About Axl being sweet and romantic. Apparently he could be like this. When things like that are being stated my mind wanders to how he proposed forced Erin into marriage, what he looked like on the wedding fotos. Sorry, but bare chested, cig in one hand, dark sunglasses on his nose? How could he possibly be more romantic and sweet than that?  Also makes we wonder on how much he truly loved Erin and how much was something else. 

And the Duff video: Am I the only one who thinks Duff lookes weird? His Dad dancing moves are funny, but his facial expression kind of ... I don't know. I noticed, I don't know how to put my finger on it. 

[BlueJean Baby]

Thank you @Tori72.  It was not easy telling that, I held it all inside for years and have finally gotten to the point where I can talk about it in the past few years. Luckily, I have to go to work shortly and hopefully, it will get my mind off it, last night was not very good for me. ?

[SerenityScorp]

1 hour ago, killuridols said:

About Axl being charming and sweet... well, he wanted to get laid, so I really doubt he would be awful  

How about tht story when a Woman have sex with Him by force N' He said sorry?

[Ratam]

19 minutes ago, BlueJean Baby said:

Thank you @Tori72.  It was not easy telling that, I held it all inside for years and have finally gotten to the point where I can talk about it in the past few years. Luckily, I have to go to work shortly and hopefully, it will get my mind off it, last night was not very good for me. ?

No, Blue.talk unload and  cure☺

[Lumikki]

@MillionsOfSpiders That is a blast from the past I remember when that interview with Julianna Sedbrook first appeared on the internet. I had completely forgotten about it, but as soon as I read her name my brain went "We had some really romantic days, Axl washed me with a wash cloth, then he locked himself up in a bathroom, and I ended up pregnant but lost the baby because I was partying too much." Apparently that part left a lasting impression on me back then

We had a thread about it here on mygnr. So it's totally fine to discuss this imo, as it has already been discussed extensively in the past. Some people were worried then that learning about the miscarried baby (another miscarried baby) might hurt Axl. I figure if Axl does indeed read this forum, he probably learned about this when the interview originally appeared and it's too late now anyway.

That thread seems to be one of those threads that are gone and lost forever now though, sadly. At least I can't find it anymore. Iirc, Julianna herself signed up here and commented on the article too. And I also vaguely remember some sort of Facebook drama involving Julianna and Adriana that may or may not have been related to his article.

I should check if I saved any of this stuff back then.

(As for who Julianna was or about her making this up... To me, she seems like she was simply one of these girls who were "around" the band back then and engaged in sexual relationships with them at various points in time. Similar to Pam Manning, Adriana, Barbie and so on. I'd say she is as credible (or not) as any of them. I also vaguely remember Steven talking about Julianna and the friend named Lisa that she mentions in that interview, saying basically the same stuff she says here about how they used to live together.)

 

21 hours ago, Frey said:

Sorry, I didn't see that first part of your post earlier, it really must have gotten eaten.

But yeah. @Lumikki and Sinead O' Connor will be here with the soup and blankets in a minute probably. I'm sure you can join their club lol.

And well, Erin did say once that she felt sorry for him and wanted to "make it all better". Perfect set-up for a pretty co-dependent relationship there too- one person who's very emotionally needy and another one who's a care-taker. Iirc, Erin also mentioned having already been her ill mother's caretaker as a child or something, so she probably fell right back into that pattern again with Axl.

Not sure about what you mean by "we know he will do that or something else again" though. If you're referring to domestic violence, I wouldn't be so sure. As far as we know, he hasn't done anything like that in decades now.

Not gonna lie, reading these bits like "I feel like maybe someone can finally help and understand me– I don’t feel so alone" and also the bit about him "trying hard" is kind of heart-breaking to me. Because I do believe he was trying very hard to deal with whatever he was struggling with and the way he tries to find answers in whatever book he was reading is so bittersweet.

I can just picture Axl in a hotel room in rainy Hamburg, studying his book in search of answers and trying to be quiet so as not to wake Izzy...

And that other quote  -"Thank you for coming back and also for holding me, that is one of the most important and special moments of my life."- dysfunctional relationship indeed. But also sad because Axl being so amazed and appreciative about Erin holding him probably implies he didn't get held a whole lot in his life

As for Erin, I feel for her so much. Some of the stuff she has said, like the quote above about her wanting to make it all better for Axl, or how she's a care taker and just wanted a normal life with a station wagon and bunch of children, etc... Well, I'm kinda similar in that regard, with the same life goals and instincts*, so part of me can identify with that a whole lot and blargh... I'm honest enough with myself to admit that I might have ended up in similar ways to her, if I had been in her position and just as young and naive.

*I'm a "natural-born care taker" too, or so my aunt, who makes her living being a Yoda (TM), once told me She took a look at my aura and my spiritual energy and then another quick look a the palms of my hands and bam! She knew all about me, despite the fact hat she hadn't seen me since I was 7 (so for more than 15 years by then). Gotta love Yoda types

 

20 hours ago, killuridols said:

I want to read it to understand more things about Axl. I couldn't care less about the book or the story, lol.

Hah, so I'm not the only one who does shit like this. Not just about Axl, but sometimes I read books just to figure out what it was about that book that spoke to another person or why it touched them. Or to imagine how another person felt reading a particular book. I remember when I read Slash's book for the first time, I couldn't help but think about how Axl felt reading various parts of the book.

 

20 hours ago, killuridols said:

Duff is adorable!!!!!   

 

That is such a sweet video

 

On 30.4.2017 at 3:16 PM, Frey said:

I think he probably did share a room with Izzy there, yeah.

Before they got super famous and when they first started touring, they probably had to share rooms.

Reminds me of these pics of Slash and Steven in bed, where Slash appears passed out and Steven is all over Slash. I guess they were sharing a room when these pictures were taken as well.

 

Room sharing politics must have been fun back then:

 

Izzy: "Why do I always have to share with Axl?"

Steven: "Because I'm too scared to share a room with him and you're the only one we're sure he won't kill."

...

Steven: "What? Why can't I share with Slash anymore?"

Duff: "Because I'm sharing with Slash from now on. Go ask Del to share with you or whoever."

Steven:

...

Obscene noises: *coming from Slash and Axl's room*

Izzy, Duff & Steven (exhausted and sleep-deprived): "Who the fuck thought it was a good idea to let Slash and Axl share rooms?! The noises! We'll never be able to un-hear this "

...

Room sharing politics in this band are interesting to me as well

I want to know more about this

 

 

 

 

Edited May 1, 2017 by Lumikki

[killuridols]

20 minutes ago, Tori72 said:

I go with the side that says forced help doesn't work and as, I think @MillionsOfSpiders described, has complex psychological structure running that might alienate the victim from her friends and allys.

I agree but we should be very careful with talking about women rejecting help or staying in abusive relationships because they want to, like it or love him too much.

There are stages to this problem. From the moment you fall in love with someone until you realize you are in a toxic relationship years can pass without reacting. And by the time you want to react it may be too late or too complicated to get out.

If people could only stop reflecting on this from the comfortability of their situations and put themselves in the shoes of victims for a second, all this unfair judgement could be used to provide some help.

I ask anyone here that they think for a minute if they had to leave their houses right now... how many of you are really able to do that? And im not talking about money or support from friends and family. Just think in which realistic amount of time any of you could make your bags and just leave.

Even more so, what if your abuser lives in YOUR OWN house. The one you bought with your money and everything inside belongs to you? I cant begin to list the things that could happen in that case too.

None of this is as simple as some people think and trying to blame the victim is just discouraging, frustrating and pretty much ignorant 100% of the time.

41 minutes ago, Tori72 said:

Also makes we wonder on how much he truly loved Erin and how much was something else

What do you mean by something else?

I dont know to which extent he really loved her. I think he did love her but in a sick way that was very unhealthy for both of them. 

From the letters she auctioned and other things i know, I think he was obsessed with her and he idealized her in some ways. She represented many things that were part of his imaginary at the moment.

He wanted complete domination of her person and total submission from her. It is just another example of this exercising of power he needed to do with a lot people and it probably stems from his own trauma of having no power at all over his father and stepfather when he was a child.

21 minutes ago, BlueJean Baby said:

Thank you @Tori72.  It was not easy telling that, I held it all inside for years and have finally gotten to the point where I can talk about it in the past few years. Luckily, I have to go to work shortly and hopefully, it will get my mind off it, last night was not very good for me. ?

I also have a story that is not so bad as yours because I was able to walk away before it transformed into systematic abuse, but talking about it and going into details has always been very hard for me to the point that only a handful of people in my inner circle know about it and they knew only after everything ended.

Reading some of the opinions and statements made here has discouraged me to go more personal with my story so I understand that you have not felt well since last night. I am still upset and bothered by the lack of empathy of some people and the general level of ignorance that is shown, here and everywhere.

[killuridols]

49 minutes ago, SerenityScorp said:

How about tht story when a Woman have sex with Him by force N' He said sorry?

What about that what? It is horrible if its true! 

[killuridols]

34 minutes ago, Lumikki said:

Hah, so I'm not the only one who does shit like this. Not just about Axl, but sometimes I read books just to figure out what it was about that book that spoke to another person or why it touched them. Or to imagine how another person felt reading a particular book. I remember when I read Slash's book for the first time, I couldn't help but think about how Axl felt reading various parts of the book.

Lol, it seems...

When Im fascinated by people I try to know and learn as much as I can.

I am like that with many others too, for example, Franz Kafka. @Andy14 knows of my obsession and how I wish I could move back in time to live in Prague in 1915, under Kafka's bed.

If you could only see what my book Brief an den Vater looks like from all the conscious reading I've done of it, underlining sentences and adding anotations of my own at the margins 

Im fucked up. So was him.

[MillionsOfSpiders]

@Tori72 It wasn't me who made the comment about forced help in regard to DV. I would probably be more inclined to be on the other side of that fence, but I won't go there again 

@Lumikki I wondered why I couldn't find a mygnr version of the interview, if newgnr had it you could be sure mygnr would too due to the amount of people who posted on both boards.. and the rivalry between them  

I wonder who it was that demanded the pictures be removed, TB? I don't think it was Axl himself because they say 'someone posing as Rose' so that makes me think it was TB trying to make sure he doesn't see it or people straight out dismiss what she says. I did think a lot about posting it partly because of the pregnancy part, maybe he doesn't know about it still because he's been "blocked" from seeing it. And I know that sounds ridiculous but then I think about other things TB have "shielded" him from and I wonder. 

Edited May 1, 2017 by MillionsOfSpiders

[Andy14]

1 hour ago, killuridols said:

Lol, it seems...

When Im fascinated by people I try to know and learn as much as I can.

I am like that with many others too, for example, Franz Kafka. @Andy14 knows of my obsession and how I wish I could move back in time to live in Prague in 1915, under Kafka's bed.

If you could only see what my book Brief an den Vater looks like from all the conscious reading I've done of it, underlining sentences and adding anotations of my own at the margins 

Im fucked up. So was him.

@Lumikki Lol, I also do it. I like when a friend recommends me a book to read, since it gives me an opportunity to find out more about the person and figure out what might have led them to read the particular book.

@killuridols Hope you're reading your Kafka in German . 

You definitely need to come to Prague to see "his" places, like his birthplace house:

Or this tiny house Nr. 22 where he once lived:

Or this famous café known as a place for writers and poets to meet and discuss their ideas:

 

Sorry for off topic....now back to what's important:

23 hours ago, Frey said:

Lit. It's lit. At least learn the lingo if you want to join me and Melizzzzzy

 

[SerenityScorp]

Like the outfit 

[killuridols]

1 hour ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

I wonder who it was that demanded the pictures be removed, TB? I don't think it was Axl himself because they say 'someone posing as Rose' so that makes me think it was TB trying to make sure he doesn't see it or people straight out dismiss what she says. I did think a lot about posting it partly because of the pregnancy part, maybe he doesn't know about it still because he's been "blocked" from seeing it. And I know that sounds ridiculous but then I think about other things TB have "shielded" him from and I wonder. 

From what I understood, they said that order came when the interview was "arming", lol, sounds like a really bad translation from Spanish but it makes me think how would anyone know an unknown Argentinian website was going to interview this woman? 

I smell a little bullshit there... But anyway, the pregnancy story is what sounds more fishy to me of all the things she said. That is a pretty delicate thing to be talking about so lightly, to put herself under the risk of being called by lawyers and what not.  By the end of the interview I think she says she wants to enter in contact with Axl, but I really don't know what for.

It will sound crazy but if TB blocked Axl from learning about this BS, I'm glad they did. There's no point in him knowing, especially since there is no evidence or way to know that was really HIS baby. What could he possibly say or do about it?

And last but not least, this woman has changed her last name now. I was handled her FB profile last year and I have checked again after you contacted me. It seems to me she has a new partner and that she uses her new partner's last name. There are no references to GN'R or Axl in her profile but she does have among her contacts all the strippers from that era: Pamela, Barbi, Adriana.... plus, the good ol' Dougie Goldstein 

 

1 hour ago, Andy14 said:

Hope you're reading your Kafka in German . 

You definitely need to come to Prague to see "his" places, like his birthplace house:

Or this tiny house Nr. 22 where he once lived:

That comment about reading German is a stab in the middle of my heart and you know it 

His childhood and his relationship with his father was pretty much Axl-esque. I want to set foot in all those places and live in the tiny pink house you've shown me. 

Edited May 1, 2017 by killuridols

[Alja]

2 hours ago, Tori72 said:

@BlueJean Baby thank you for sharing your story here. So very heartbreaking. Just wanted to let you know that I'm sorry you and your son had to go through this hell and still do to some part. Can't believe how much he was able to get away with the shit he'd done. Wish you all the best! 

And yeah, I gotta go back to where the discussion about domestic violence kind of stopped. What has been done in the latest post by Alja was classic derailing and I wanna point it out because it is often experienced in discussions about violence towards women. The aim of derailing is to bring the subject of discussion to something else. The subject was domestic violence towards women and how important it is to understand that the one who abuses has the responsibility and never ever the victim. To go and say, "yeah, but also men are victims of dv and elder people" etc. True, they are. But only to an incredibly smaller amount. There are statistics about those things. It is simply like: "apples are green". - "Yeah, but also grass is green". Right, but we were talking about apples. Whatever is going on with grass has nothing to do with apples.

Whatever happens to some men or elders has nothing to do with dv towards women and the fact that a victim is never responsible. 

On how to help victims, I learned that you cannot force anyone to stop a relationship and seek help. You can only offer to be there, to listen and sensitivly tell her that she does not deserve to live like this, that she does not deserve to be treated like this. That there is professional help out there. We had this discussion also about how to help Axl, whether now or in the past. Opinions vary here. I go with the side that says forced help doesn't work and as, I think @MillionsOfSpiders described, has complex psychological structure running that might alienate the victim from her friends and allys.

The red flag for me is that auction material everytime I see it, it just makes me to ask again and again: "Who is that person who is capable to put that much intimate stuff of someone alive to auction?!" Axl`s outburst-guilt circle is typical for violent persona. Saying that he never tend to behave violently is ridiculous. If I hear hoofbeats, I tend to look, if there`s any zebras when everyone assumes just horses. You know, statistically, in most of the world it will be horses. That`s it. Other thing is that it`s very difficult to make statistic of these problems. Even if something happens in less cases or is not immediately visible, does not mean that it does not exist or shouldn`t get awareness. Also abusive relationship can be much more complex than abusive man and victim woman.

Maybe because I have many good friends among men I see how abusive can women be and that the way they do it is much more silent and sophisticated and often goes unrecognized. I know both men and women who maintain abusive relationship despite everything. Relationships where both are abusive, each one his/her own way. I`ve seen relationship going rollercoaster from outburst and hating each other`s guts to peacemaking sex (both sides claiming best to have) for pretty long time.

Stories of people we never met (the more famous, the more it is) is always tinged and aromatized with lots of artificial additives and stabilizers (to sound interesting and to get its fifteen minutes of fame). The story does have some missing and unfitting puzzles for me. I don`t think that I`ll ever get it, it`s a puzzle, not something affecting my life. It happened in past, all we can do with past stories is to recognize paths and choose, if we want to go that path (again) or not.

One "zebra" puzzle is for example that he was actively searching for help with his issues.

I agree with that last paragraph, I just wouldn`t be so sure about gender assumed. 

2 hours ago, Lumikki said:

Not gonna lie, reading these bits like "I feel like maybe someone can finally help and understand me– I don’t feel so alone" and also the bit about him "trying hard" is kind of heart-breaking to me. Because I do believe he was trying very hard to deal with whatever he was struggling with and the way he tries to find answers in whatever book he was reading is so bittersweet.

I can just picture Axl in a hotel room in rainy Hamburg, studying his book in search of answers and trying to be quiet so as not to wake Izzy...

And that other quote  -"Thank you for coming back and also for holding me, that is one of the most important and special moments of my life."- dysfunctional relationship indeed. But also sad because Axl being so amazed and appreciative about Erin holding him probably implies he didn't get held a whole lot in his life

As for Erin, I feel for her so much. Some of the stuff she has said, like the quote above about her wanting to make it all better for Axl, or how she's a care taker and just wanted a normal life with a station wagon and bunch of children, etc... Well, I'm kinda similar in that regard, with the same life goals and instincts*, so part of me can identify with that a whole lot and blargh... I'm honest enough with myself to admit that I might have ended up in similar ways to her, if I had been in her position and just as young and naive.

*I'm a "natural-born care taker" too, or so my aunt, who makes her living being a Yoda (TM), once told me She took a look at my aura and my spiritual energy and then another quick look a the palms of my hands and bam! She knew all about me, despite the fact hat she hadn't seen me since I was 7 (so for more than 15 years by then). Gotta love Yoda types

Hah, so I'm not the only one who does shit like this. Not just about Axl, but sometimes I read books just to figure out what it was about that book that spoke to another person or why it touched them. Or to imagine how another person felt reading a particular book. I remember when I read Slash's book for the first time, I couldn't help but think about how Axl felt reading various parts of the book.

I somehow really like this and understand it. 

I went through this phase of self-searching, I was even reading this kind of literature, so I got some nostalgia when I saw the book. "I feel like maybe someone can finally help and understand me – I don’t feel so alone". As I said, I was lucky with soulmate. Doesn`t mean I didn`t went through serious phases of feeling lonely, different and misunderstood.

I make my living as a caregiver, it taught me for example how sensitive and appreciative are grown-up adults when you come and hold their hand when they are going through rough times. It`s really strong also for me. People are most frighten of being left alone. Caregiver types who don`t have built up coping mechanisms burn out easily. Also tend to end up in some care-giving - care-getting drama. It`s a kind of conviction that I deserve to be loved if I take care of someone. Next is expectation that if I give someone love and attention and be submissive towards that one, he/she will see how much I sacrifice and starts to fulfill my expectations or will change (and it never works, even more and more love and care is poured. For the other one by some time it can be restraining and suffocating amount of love and care). Lots of these caretaker types work as healthcare staff and yes, they are mostly women. Many of them do have this kind of home drama (violence intensity varies). The most vulnerable usually come from dysfunctional families with dependence issues. 

Caretaking is also my vulnerable spot.

[Tori72]

A caretaker who believes in the responsibiity of a victim and tries to derail issues with all sorts of measures only to not get to the bottom of violence-related problems. I would'nt wish that to my worst enemy. 

I do give you the benefit of doubt though, maybe this is just all due to translation. 

3 hours ago, Lumikki said:

Not gonna lie, reading these bits like "I feel like maybe someone can finally help and understand me– I don’t feel so alone" and also the bit about him "trying hard" is kind of heart-breaking to me. Because I do believe he was trying very hard to deal with whatever he was struggling with and the way he tries to find answers in whatever book he was reading is so bittersweet.

I can just picture Axl in a hotel room in rainy Hamburg, studying his book in search of answers and trying to be quiet so as not to wake Izzy...

And that other quote  -"Thank you for coming back and also for holding me, that is one of the most important and special moments of my life."- dysfunctional relationship indeed. But also sad because Axl being so amazed and appreciative about Erin holding him probably implies he didn't get held a whole lot in his life

As for Erin, I feel for her so much. Some of the stuff she has said, like the quote above about her wanting to make it all better for Axl, or how she's a care taker and just wanted a normal life with a station wagon and bunch of children, etc... Well, I'm kinda similar in that regard, with the same life goals and instincts*, so part of me can identify with that a whole lot and blargh... I'm honest enough with myself to admit that I might have ended up in similar ways to her, if I had been in her position and just as young and naive.

*I'm a "natural-born care taker" too, or so my aunt, who makes her living being a Yoda (TM), once told me She took a look at my aura and my spiritual energy and then another quick look a the palms of my hands and bam! She knew all about me, despite the fact hat she hadn't seen me since I was 7 (so for more than 15 years by then). Gotta love Yoda types

 

I feel you with all you're saying here. And I realize how ambiguous I am about Axl. But yeah, his struggle to find answers and break a cycle, to find this magic love and soulmate, it is heartwrenching.

[Andy14]

50 minutes ago, killuridols said:

That comment about reading German is a stab in the middle of my heart and you know it 

His childhood and his relationship with his father was pretty much Axl-esque. I want to set foot in all those places and live in the tiny pink house you've shown me. 

I only want you to get motivated to learn German 

Spoiler

Your house is waiting for you 

But you need to bring your own door 

 

[killuridols]

8 minutes ago, Tori72 said:

A caretaker who believes in the responsibiity of a victim and tries to derail issues with all sorts of measures only to not get to the bottom of violence-related problems. I would'nt wish that to my wor

Maybe that's why she is caretaker and not a caregiver

1 minute ago, Andy14 said:

I only want you to get motivated to learn German 

  Hide contents

Your house is waiting for you 

But you need to bring your own door 

 

The only place where I can take German lessons here is expensive as fuck 

LOL what happened to the door? I thought it was painted pink as well 

 

I was born in a place I don't belong to, in a time and era that are not mine. Take me down to the paradise city where the houses are tiny and the roofs are red and I die of allergies