"The updated modern sound of 90s" on Chin Dem

[Draguns]

5 hours ago, Bumble's Bridge Pickup said:

Which NIN album/song does it remind you of? 

Dude, it just reminds me of a NIN song. That's it. 

[Bumble's Bridge Pickup]

6 hours ago, Draguns said:

Dude, it just reminds me of a NIN song. That's it. 

Yeah I have no doubt it does, but I'm a huge NIN fan and I don't have any clue what you could possibly mean. For example, there's almost no "normal sounding" guitar in the entire NIN catalog while Shackler's has a typical modern radio rock guitar sound

[ManOverBoard]

Anyone ever listen to Poe? When I first heard the CD leaks, it brought her to mind immediately
 

 

[wasted]

Shacklers reminds me of Got the Life by Korn and Four Lane Black top by Zombie. But it also has elements of DTJ, Locomotive and YCBM.

 I listened to the instrumental and isolated guitar track and to me the guitar is very...to me it's more like a backwards bass riff. The soloing that runs along with it reminds me of Muse or something. That spiralling stuff.

But Axl's vocals just completely change it. His pulsing vocals and that Korn type chorus just takes a basic instrumental and gives it so much. It's kind of crazy to me. I hear the instrumental I just don't see how it could be a song. 

It makes me think there's a lot of these instrumentals and Axl just finds lyrics and vocals that work. It seems like a lottery though. How often is it randomly going work out?

[maynard]

Regardless of influences, production, sounds, it's safe to say Chinese Democracy fucking sucks. What an awful terrible pathetic album.

[wasted]

On 19 February 2017 at 4:24 PM, Rovim said:

This is just speculation, but I believe they tried a lot of things. I don't want to say everything, but what Robin said after he first left Gn'R about how they had tunes that were completed and had orchestration and more basic stuff that originated from a more classic set up of bass, drums, and guitars.

He also said there were songs that saw the finish line and others that were still incomplete. Even what is considered finished was altered by whoever came along to produce it again or play different guitar solos.

I believe what Fortus is saying about Axl having 2 to 3 albums worth of material. Some of it must have been way more electronic simply cause that's what Axl said years ago about having a distinct difference in sound between the first record and the second one.

He wanted to ease the fans into it. Then abandoned it and completed a double album, released Chinese, probably a far more conventional album in sound compared to the original concept and we had samples from tunes that had more classic rock and others that features alternative influences to Guns.

Songs like Better, Shackler's, and Sorry are such good melting pots, I'd imagine Axl must have completed many tunes that incorporated many influences.

Axl definitely seemed ready to put out the next record in 2009. It's possible by 2008 what was crazy to GNR fans in 2000 just wasn't that shocking. Axl was ahead of the curve. In the 00s the 90s album was almost mainstream. So there was no reason to have a rock album and a side album of industrial electronica. In 2000 Better might have been the out there NIN type song, by 2006 it was the big single. In 2008 when I heard Better on KNAC it was the most commercial thing on there. So in the end was CD the final statement. Is there a need to remake that album in 2020? 

Edited February 21, 2017 by wasted

[Rovim]

7 hours ago, wasted said:

Axl definitely seemed ready to put out the next record in 2009. It's possible by 2008 what was crazy to GNR fans in 2000 just wasn't that shocking. Axl was ahead of the curve. In the 00s the 90s album was almost mainstream. So there was no reason to have a rock album and a side album of industrial electronica. In 2000 Better might have been the out there NIN type song, by 2006 it was the big single. In 2008 when I heard Better on KNAC it was the most commercial thing on there. So in the end was CD the final statement. Is there a need to remake that album in 2020? 

Maybe not to remake it, but even if the goal is still to make a musical statement with every new Guns album,  some unreleased tunes could still be viewed by Axl as something that still reflects what he's into. He still likes to perform Chinese tunes the most? if they use some 1996 material it doesn't mean that it will define the album.

And Axl has played Slash and Duff some unreleased music. Some tunes could be carried over and updated just cause they could fit really well and it's just strong material like You Could Be Mine in UYI2 for example. So it can be carried over to the next album like November Rain or if Slash made some tunes relevant again with his sound it could be used.

I think that after Axl writes some new lyrics and comes up with vocal melodies and they complete a few new ones together, it may be enough to not use any Chinese material, but it also could help Axl see if he can fill in the blanks with old Chinese material and 1996 material.

Chinese also represents Axl's musical interests in general, so for any Guns album to be genuine now artistically, it has to contain some Axl elements after he took control of the band. I don't think it changed much: Axl still seems to like Hard Rock but also what he achieved on Chinese, so if the 15 tunes that got released from that era don't represent every success in the studio Axl had, maybe he still likes those tunes and they can still work somehow with Slash.

Kinda like a love song like This I Love ended up being on Chinese cause Axl finished it with Robin but that wasn't how all of Chinese sounded like or was about really.

 

 

Edited February 21, 2017 by Rovim

[wasted]

3 minutes ago, Rovim said:

Maybe not to remake it, but even if the goal is still to make a musical statement with every new Guns album,  some unreleased tunes could still be viewed by Axl as something that still reflects what he's into. He still likes to perform Chinese tunes the most? if they use some 1996 material it doesn't mean that it will define the album.

And Axl has played Slash and Duff some unreleased music. Some tunes could be carried over and updated just cause they could fit really well and it's just strong material like You Could Be Mine in UYI2 for example. So it can be carried over to the next album like November Rain or if Slash made some tunes relevant again with his sound it could be used.

I think that after Axl writes some new lyrics and comes up with vocal melodies and they complete a few new ones together, it may be enough to not use any Chinese material, but it also could help Axl see if he can fill in the blanks with old Chinese material, 1996 material, and new tunes from current band members.

Chinese also represents Axl's musical interests in general, so for any Guns album to be genuine now artistically, it has to contain some Axl elements after he took control of the band. I don't think it changed much: Axl still seems to like Hard Rock but also what he achieved on Chinese, so if the 15 tunes that got released from that era don't represent every success in the studio Axl had, maybe he still likes those tunes and they can still work somehow with Slash.

Kinda like a love song like This I Love ended up being on Chinese cause Axl finished it with Robin but that wasn't how all of Chinese sounded like or was about really.

 

 

Yes I was about to say TIL was around 94 and maybe even some of Tobias stuff on CD could have been 96. So it's probably not the best way to speculate. 

With CD it seemed to be about changing the sound and then the personel but even that isn't necessarily important as Axl wanted Slash on 3 songs on CD. 

So you could say there's a back log like there was for UYI. So Axl has shown some of that to Slash. 

Then if they write new stuff, Axl wants Slash to work from melodies like AFD era not lay down guitar tracks for him to reject/sing on like UYI. 

The most important decision seems to be what kind of record they are making. At China Exchange Axl offered Slash his material, and said he'd work like AFD on new material. The scope and genre are the most interesting things to me. Surely they will bring in some more rockers because that's what the fans really want or is it more the UYI balance? Axl seems to still be into his material so I expect 50/50 split. Guns N Roses. 

[Rovim]

1 hour ago, wasted said:

Yes I was about to say TIL was around 94 and maybe even some of Tobias stuff on CD could have been 96. So it's probably not the best way to speculate. 

With CD it seemed to be about changing the sound and then the personel but even that isn't necessarily important as Axl wanted Slash on 3 songs on CD. 

So you could say there's a back log like there was for UYI. So Axl has shown some of that to Slash. 

Then if they write new stuff, Axl wants Slash to work from melodies like AFD era not lay down guitar tracks for him to reject/sing on like UYI. 

The most important decision seems to be what kind of record they are making. At China Exchange Axl offered Slash his material, and said he'd work like AFD on new material. The scope and genre are the most interesting things to me. Surely they will bring in some more rockers because that's what the fans really want or is it more the UYI balance? Axl seems to still be into his material so I expect 50/50 split. Guns N Roses. 

I'd imagine it would have to contain more hard rock tunes and rasp. Slash has used Fall To Pieces ideas from before he left Guns in 2004 for Contraband.

Axl wasn't sure if Catcher was going to be included on Chinese. What if it wasn't? if it was never leaked or released. no reason to not use a good idea if it still works. I'd want them to include Catcher with Slash on it if it was never released on Chinese. This I Love could have still remained unreleased. So if for example, Atlas is a really strong tune that lends itself well for Slash leads, it could be used as long as the lyrics are not about the old band/a theme which cannot be used anymore.

If they have enough new tunes that strike a good balance, a different kind of Queen, with raspy rockers and piano ballads, that's fine, but I believe Axl could have written and completed tunes from the CD era that are probably on the level of Catcher with the post old Guns line ups and out of 2 to 3 albums worth of material, what can be used could be closer to UYI in approach and after a Slash make over no one will even know it was Chinese at one point. Could bump up quality if it's There Was A Time levels of great with Slash solos and Black Sabbath moments.

Edited February 21, 2017 by Rovim

[wasted]

9 minutes ago, Rovim said:

I'd imagine it would have to contain more hard rock tunes and rasp. Slash has used Fall To Pieces ideas from before he left Guns in 2004 for Contraband.

Axl wasn't sure if Catcher was going to be included on Chinese. What if it wasn't? if it never leaked or released. no reason to not use a good idea if it still works. I'd want them to include Catcher with Slash on it if it was never released on Chinese. This I Love could have still remained unreleased. So if for example, Atlas is a really strong tune that lends itself well for Slash leads, it could be used as long as the lyrics are not about the old band/a theme which cannot be used anymore.

If they have enough new tunes that strike a good balance, a different kind of Queen, with raspy rockers and piano ballads, that's fine, but I believe Axl could have written and completed tunes from the CD era that are probably on the level of Catcher with the post old Guns line ups and out of 2 to 3 albums worth of material, what can be used could be closer to UYI in approach and after a Slash make over no one will even know it was Chinese at one point. Could bump up quality if it's There Was A Time levels of great with Slash solos and Black Sabbath moments.

True, I could even see if you take CD songs and rework them with Slash like Chi dem, Better, TIL, Sorry, Catcher they turn out great. With Frank on drums and Fortus on rhythmn, maybe Slash could get the definitive version of Catcher. People like Slash's guitar work so that is always a plus. I'm torn between the haziness of Catcher on CD and a Slash version which might be more assured and streamlined. Strip of the layers, unify the sound and that's half the problem people have with CD. I still believe if Slash plays the riff and solos on Twat it would have been a GNR classic. Dynamically it's all there, the pacing, the escalation. So I agree if Chi dem or Better can work, maybe The General or Atlas Shrugged could too. 

So CD II meets Slash with new old school GNR songs added to the Chinese stew. 

[maynard]

CD is LZ + Queen produced by Kanye West, remixed by Beck.

If the World is GNR + Alter Bridge with Oasis sub-bass licks.

Madagascar is Fernando Lebeis meets Glam Metal + Hookers n' Blow piano riffs.

[Sprite]

6 hours ago, wasted said:

True, I could even see if you take CD songs and rework them with Slash like Chi dem, Better, TIL, Sorry, Catcher they turn out great. With Frank on drums and Fortus on rhythmn, maybe Slash could get the definitive version of Catcher. People like Slash's guitar work so that is always a plus. I'm torn between the haziness of Catcher on CD and a Slash version which might be more assured and streamlined. Strip of the layers, unify the sound and that's half the problem people have with CD. I still believe if Slash plays the riff and solos on Twat it would have been a GNR classic. Dynamically it's all there, the pacing, the escalation. So I agree if Chi dem or Better can work, maybe The General or Atlas Shrugged could too. 

So CD II meets Slash with new old school GNR songs added to the Chinese stew. 

That's the perfect description of TWAT. And to me this is the crux of the situation. Had Slash played on Twat is it even the same song? What could we be losing with new material? 

Thats what's most interesting to me with the concept of the new album. Who will the players be?

If Slash is open to playing as many CD songs and as Axl said seeking out wanting to learn them, maybe he's open to sharing time on a record. As Rovim pointed out this has evolved more into an Axl driven project/vision since he's the one who's been standing the whole time. So does Axl throw out 15-20 years of his life and what friends recorded just to get Slash on it? 

There are so many questions. 

Buckethead, Robin, Tobias, and Freese seem to be critical to the evolved sound or level on CD for lack of a better word. So if we are thinking a continuation to the next level as the new record concept it might not be a good idea to throw the baby out with the bath water. But alas this is all conjecture as we've no idea what the future looks like.

Is the way forward is to simply combine it all in a UYI style? Mix this with that and that with this. Like a 2020 mad scientist. Call it:

Guns N' Roses: Frankenstein

[soon]

On February 19, 2017 at 4:00 PM, ManOverBoard said:

Anyone ever listen to Poe? When I first heard the CD leaks, it brought her to mind immediately
 

 

Interestingly, Matt Sorum did some co-production work and an assistant engineer credit on a few Poe tracks,  Angry Jonny is the most well known.  Based on what Sorum says, you have a great ear!

He said "I had produced (techno songstress) Poe and there were drum loops in the songs, and Axl wanted that.  But Slash is a rock guitarist.  He doesn't want to do techno-industrial."

https://books.google.ca/books?id=I5x8l8IaNUMC&pg=PA93&lpg=PA93&dq=matt+sorum,+poe&source=bl&ots=XfipBdC9C7&sig=WeFaHH_WiSmuqq3ReRHqyvEeYNA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjVp5_zm6LSAhVp44MKHbJGCUsQ6AEIPzAG#v=onepage&q=matt%20sorum%2C%20poe&f=false

[GNR 1991]

On 2/20/2017 at 9:36 AM, maynard said:

Regardless of influences, production, sounds, it's safe to say Chinese Democracy fucking sucks. What an awful terrible pathetic album.

Awesome, and how many times are you going to reiterate that constructive thought in every CD thread? Must have tons of free time!

[maynard]

12 minutes ago, GNR 1991 said:

Awesome, and how many times are you going to reiterate that constructive thought in every CD thread? Must have tons of free time!

As many times as I wish. Do you want to censor my opinion? How old are you?

[TOS--LOA]

On 2/19/2017 at 4:00 PM, ManOverBoard said:

Anyone ever listen to Poe? When I first heard the CD leaks, it brought her to mind immediately
 

 

I love the production on that entire album. 

[wasted]

14 hours ago, Sprite said:

That's the perfect description of TWAT. And to me this is the crux of the situation. Had Slash played on Twat is it even the same song? What could we be losing with new material? 

Thats what's most interesting to me with the concept of the new album. Who will the players be?

If Slash is open to playing as many CD songs and as Axl said seeking out wanting to learn them, maybe he's open to sharing time on a record. As Rovim pointed out this has evolved more into an Axl driven project/vision since he's the one who's been standing the whole time. So does Axl throw out 15-20 years of his life and what friends recorded just to get Slash on it? 

There are so many questions. 

Buckethead, Robin, Tobias, and Freese seem to be critical to the evolved sound or level on CD for lack of a better word. So if we are thinking a continuation to the next level as the new record concept it might not be a good idea to throw the baby out with the bath water. But alas this is all conjecture as we've no idea what the future looks like.

Is the way forward is to simply combine it all in a UYI style? Mix this with that and that with this. Like a 2020 mad scientist. Call it:

Guns N' Roses: Frankenstein

I think covers are the same song, so TWAT would just be Slash's version. 

Like Duff said they see something different in the CD material than Axl. Maybe it's just the melody or the riffs or dynamics. They can break down any music and play it their way. 

[SurfsUp]

On 2/17/2017 at 9:59 AM, Night Drive Lonelinessl said:

maybe it should have. afd is REAL ROCK. and what came after in 2008 is FAKE ROCK

lol