Billsfan Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 4 hours ago, tsinindy said: Wow....very interesting. I didn't think of this angle. But damn, makes a lot of sense actually. Agreed. Still though...no Izzy?!?! On 2/27/2017 at 1:17 PM, The Black said: It started with negotiations with Coachella. They offered Axl a reunion deal as long as Slash and Duff were in. Then of course the thought process came of why having to split the money. Greed. All there is to it. This 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsfan Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 (edited) On 2/25/2017 at 11:41 PM, Modano09 said: Same old Adler. Yeah, it really bothers me that he's honest and not a yes man like that girl and them other guys in Axl's band 1 hour ago, tsinindy said: And then Duff said, "Nah Frank you're drumming really is shit, but you aren't nearly as annoying as that fucker and you're cheaper to pay so we'll keep you around". Fixed Edited February 28, 2017 by Billsfan 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvanG Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 3 hours ago, sonofnazareth said: It is rumored that Steven farted as he walked past Frank. That is an absolute lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Billsfan Posted February 28, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted February 28, 2017 On 2/22/2017 at 10:54 PM, WhazUp said: Well I mean you weren't there and had nothing to do with what is going on behind the scenes however you have already made up your mind that Axl is an evil dictator and Slash/Duff are sellouts with no spine - and based on little actual "factual" evidence And neither were you. God forbid someone examines a situation for what it is and formulates an opinion on it though, right...idk, maybe you're in denial or don't like facts? What's there to talk about, Axl sees this as a continuation and won't sacrifice his loyal servers. Never has, never will. There's zero evidence that he would. Slash and Duff replaced Dj Ashba, Bumblefoot, and Tommy Stinson. Reese replaced Pitman. If it were a true reunion, they would have at least tried to work Izzy and Steven back in first, or even Matt Sorum over Frank. Hell even if things with Izzy went south, Gilby Clarke is available and cheap. Sorry for telling it like it is though 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asia Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 26 minutes ago, Billsfan said: And neither were you. God forbid someone examines a situation for what it is and formulates an opinion on it though, right...idk, maybe you're in denial or don't like facts? What's there to talk about, Axl sees this as a continuation and won't sacrifice his loyal servers. Never has, never will. There's zero evidence that he would. Slash and Duff replaced Dj Ashba, Bumblefoot, and Tommy Stinson. Reese replaced Pitman. If it were a true reunion, they would have at least tried to work Izzy and Steven back in first, or even Matt Sorum over Frank. Hell even if things with Izzy went south, Gilby Clarke is available and cheap. Sorry for telling it like it is though 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkenchantress Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 4 hours ago, sonofnazareth said: It is rumored that Steven farted as he walked past Frank. And it probably sounded better than Frank's drumming. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modano09 Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Billsfan said: And neither were you. God forbid someone examines a situation for what it is and formulates an opinion on it though, right...idk, maybe you're in denial or don't like facts? What's there to talk about, Axl sees this as a continuation and won't sacrifice his loyal servers. Never has, never will. There's zero evidence that he would. Slash and Duff replaced Dj Ashba, Bumblefoot, and Tommy Stinson. Reese replaced Pitman. If it were a true reunion, they would have at least tried to work Izzy and Steven back in first, or even Matt Sorum over Frank. Hell even if things with Izzy went south, Gilby Clarke is available and cheap. Sorry for telling it like it is though Izzy sold his stake in the band 25 years ago and washed his hands of it all. Apparently he wants equal money to the guys who didn't. If that's the case why isn't it seen as Izzy's fault he's not there? Nobody in the right mind would put a tour of this size and importance in Adler's hands and that's all on Adler. Wasn't isn't that seen as Adler's fault? It all boils down to the guys you want to be there aren't there so the it's the fault of the guy's who are there. Edited February 28, 2017 by Modano09 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhazUp Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 1 hour ago, Asia said: Yup sums up my reaction to that reply as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhazUp Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, Billsfan said: And neither were you. God forbid someone examines a situation for what it is and formulates an opinion on it though, right...idk, maybe you're in denial or don't like facts? What's there to talk about, Axl sees this as a continuation and won't sacrifice his loyal servers. Never has, never will. There's zero evidence that he would. Slash and Duff replaced Dj Ashba, Bumblefoot, and Tommy Stinson. Reese replaced Pitman. If it were a true reunion, they would have at least tried to work Izzy and Steven back in first, or even Matt Sorum over Frank. Hell even if things with Izzy went south, Gilby Clarke is available and cheap. Sorry for telling it like it is though There is no such thing as denial of facts when facts are not even present to be denied. Certain people here including yourself like to think that you know everything about GNR from the inside, and as shown by your post you can't argue any point without innacurately labeling speculation as fact. That is a big logical issue. But hey I suppose its easier to look for someone to blame on either side and running with it, I get it. Its been a huge issue in the media as well, taking mere speculation and running with it. Edited February 28, 2017 by WhazUp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhenYou'reTalkinToYourself Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, Modano09 said: I think they just don't want to talk about the personal issues/relationships within the band publicly. During that Axl/Duff interview, when Axl's asked if he felt everyone had to change over the years to make the reunion work today Duff jumps in to answer it and starts talking about Chinese Democracy. Whatever was said between Axl/Slash/Duff to make amends (or at least agree to appear so publicly) isn't something they want to talk about. Yes, I agree that this is mostly the case. And even though I would like to know what exactly did they say to each other, I think its better that they keep it to themselves at least for the time being. And most importantly, if everything was running smoothly with this band, then it wouldn't be Guns N' Roses. Edited February 28, 2017 by WhenYou'reTalkinToYourself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joeypeeps Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 14 hours ago, blackrose87 said: Its particualrly dirty form Slash and Duff. With Axl you kind of expect it. Relationship there is non existant more or less given how he said they intereacted with each other when he played with them. Okay with Stevens track record I can understand the guys relucatance to give him the sole no.1 drum spot for a world tour but he definitely deserved more than he was getting. Yeah, man, well said. There's just got to be more to the story as to why they're screwing over Adler. As far as I know, he's clean, sober, and physically capable. There's gotta be some deep rooted animosity between the guys and Steven. I just wish I knew what it was. Us diehard fans, who have spent lots of money, deserve to see as many original members as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modano09 Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 3 hours ago, Joeypeeps said: Yeah, man, well said. There's just got to be more to the story as to why they're screwing over Adler. As far as I know, he's clean, sober, and physically capable. There's gotta be some deep rooted animosity between the guys and Steven. I just wish I knew what it was. Us diehard fans, who have spent lots of money, deserve to see as many original members as possible. To use a sports analogy, just because a guy's your friend doesn't mean he's a good teammate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonofnazareth Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 22 hours ago, Tom-Ass said: And Frank said, "Damn that shit smells worse than my drumming" And Steven said, 'Damn, your breath stinks' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsfan Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 On 2/28/2017 at 3:58 PM, Asia said: Wow, such an insightful response. Thanks for proving me wrong. Oh wait 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsfan Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 (edited) On 2/28/2017 at 4:49 PM, Modano09 said: Izzy sold his stake in the band 25 years ago and washed his hands of it all. Apparently he wants equal money to the guys who didn't. If that's the case why isn't it seen as Izzy's fault he's not there? Nobody in the right mind would put a tour of this size and importance in Adler's hands and that's all on Adler. Wasn't isn't that seen as Adler's fault? It all boils down to the guys you want to be there aren't there so the it's the fault of the guy's who are there. No, it boils down to who should be there and who shouldn't. The lineup you see now are performing songs and milking the $$$$ out of a tour based off of material that wouldn't exist without Izzy. As much as you want to think Izzy abandoned them, they abandoned him first. Slash and Duff refused to get Sober, and Axl could have backed his buddy up as well as had the respect for his fans to show up on time, but he didn't. But no, you're right and I'm wrong...Izzy is a terrible guy for not falling off the wagon and dying. On 2/28/2017 at 5:39 PM, WhazUp said: Yup sums up my reaction to that reply as well It's literally how most react to your posts, but no someone calls something as it is. Hey the sky is blue but thanks to people like you, maybe it's actually green? Sorry but not everyone likes to argue for the sake of arguing, they see a situation for how it is and develop an opinion based off of it. If that doesn't fit your agenda, I don't know what to tell you Edited March 2, 2017 by Billsfan 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsfan Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 On 2/28/2017 at 5:47 PM, WhazUp said: There is no such thing as denial of facts when facts are not even present to be denied. Certain people here including yourself like to think that you know everything about GNR from the inside, and as shown by your post you can't argue any point without innacurately labeling speculation as fact. That is a big logical issue. But hey I suppose its easier to look for someone to blame on either side and running with it, I get it. Its been a huge issue in the media as well, taking mere speculation and running with it. Another response lacking a logical ability to show that I could be wrong or that the facts presented appear in an alternative light. But here ya are with the "I don't like what you say so booo you" logic...thanks for that, you're getting great at it just like you are with me in every Adler thread bud. But please, keep going Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhazUp Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 34 minutes ago, Billsfan said: Another response lacking a logical ability to show that I could be wrong or that the facts presented appear in an alternative light. But here ya are with the "I don't like what you say so booo you" logic...thanks for that, you're getting great at it just like you are with me in every Adler thread bud. But please, keep going And again you have no idea what I am actually saying. But I suppose ignorance has its bounds, please keep going oh soothsayer of all things GNR tell us what the truth is all mighty one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsfan Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 Just now, WhazUp said: And again you have no idea what I am actually saying. But I suppose ignorance has its bounds, please keep going oh soothsayer of all things GNR tell us what the truth is all mighty one You're the only ignorant one here bud. You're literally only coming back with "I know you are but what am I" and it's hysterical Do you even know what you're attempting to argue anymore or...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhazUp Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Billsfan said: You're the only ignorant one here bud. You're literally only coming back with "I know you are but what am I" and it's hysterical Do you even know what you're attempting to argue anymore or...? All I know is I am just don't feel comfortable enough to post here saying exactly what is going on within the inner workings of the GNR camp. Laying blame, at this point, is just stupid and dumb and factless to me, I just can't do it. If facts come out and Axl is indeed a money hungry dictator and Slash and Duff are spinless idiots I will glady call them out on that. However I am never going to start doing that prematurely without, y'know, actual facts Edit: And sorry if this whole argument thing has devolved to this insult thing on both of our ends, for me it is just a tad annoying seeing such polarizing and bashful posts on topics that I genuinely feel like all its doing is getting into the realm of factless bashing without real substance. That is really my main argument, I just don't think it is constructive - that's all. Edited March 2, 2017 by WhazUp 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modano09 Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 37 minutes ago, Billsfan said: No, it boils down to who should be there and who shouldn't. The lineup you see now are performing songs and milking the $$$$ out of a tour based off of material that wouldn't exist without Izzy. As much as you want to think Izzy abandoned them, they abandoned him first. Slash and Duff refused to get Sober, and Axl could have backed his buddy up as well as had the respect for his fans to show up on time, but he didn't. But no, you're right and I'm wrong...Izzy is a terrible guy for not falling off the wagon and dying. It's literally how most react to your posts, but no someone calls something as it is. Hey the sky is blue but thanks to people like you, maybe it's actually green? Sorry but not everyone likes to argue for the sake of arguing, they see a situation for how it is and develop an opinion based off of it. If that doesn't fit your agenda, I don't know what to tell you There are numerous reasons Duff and Slash should have gotten sober and kicked drugs before we get to "because Izzy wanted them to". The touring life-style wasn't for him. The fame wasn't for him. He made his sobriety a priority and was willing to leave the band for it. That's entirely understandable and commendable. But bottom line is when he wanted out he wanted out entirely, he sold his ownership stake and washed his hands of it all. If he thinks he's entitled to equal money to Axl/Slash/Duff I can see why that was a deal breaker. He can't profit from selling something and profit from owning it at the same time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsfan Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 Just now, WhazUp said: I know exactly what I am arguing, and unfortunately you are too busy with ad hominems and not really have addressed anything All I know is I am not dumb enough to post here saying exactly what is going on within the inner workings of the GNR camp. Laying blame, at this point, is just stupid and dumb and factless. And that is a fact If facts come out and Axl is indeed a money hungry dictator and Slash and Duff are spinless idiots I will glady call them out on that. However I am never going to start doing that prematurely without, y'know, actual facts lol you are your alternative facts... The topic at hand, since you've completely missed the point AGAIN, is band selection. The current lineup of the band is Axl, Slash, Fortus, Duff, Frank, Dizzy and Melissa. We know who plays what The last lineup was Axl, Dj, Bumble, Richard, Tommy, Frank, Dizzy and Pitman. So, Ashba, Bumble, Stinson and Pitman were subtracted for Slash, Duff and Melissa. According to the people who quit, even pitman, they all quit (who knows if Pitman is being honest but, he says he didn't want to play with a band playing "oldies" per his Facebook page since you probably need sources). Every member, not just those 4, who have quit any version of Guns N Roses since 1997 have voluntarily quit all on their own. Robin (who quit twice), Freese, Buckethead, Brain, even Paul Tobias all quit voluntarily on their own. Axl didn't fire them. But the entire time, Axl has owned the name. The last time the band toured in 2014 was South America and the good old USA. Look at the set lists. Look at all the songs played since then. What's different? Double Talkin Jive and Coma. Slash songs. Axl said during the Chinese exchange that they were dusted off to make Slash happy. From his mouth. Facts. Steven Adler was supposed to be involved. Slash and Duff met with him, not Axl. Slash and Duff met with Steven, not Axl. Slash and Duff hugged Steven onstage, not Axl. All Axl did was fist bump him. They spoke for less than a minute in total over 5 shows. No new music, no sign of new music. Which is textbook Guns N Roses in any form since 2008, really 2001 even too since all we've gotten is 1 album over that time. So why are you here....? Money hungry dictator and spineless idiots are your words. Think I said Slash and Duff were sell outs and it's Axl's band. Still a point, left to be unproven. Fortus was a Axl decision. Frank was an Axl hire. Dizzy was technically even an Axl hire during a time where the other guys called him a dictator. Melissa Reese was an Axl hire, a second keybard player in a band not needing two keyboard players with ties to Axl, not the other two. You might wanna argue that we don't know that, but that's no different than asking if Aunt Mary has balls or not... "Well we can't see under the skirt so, how do we know what's there??" GIVE ME A BREAK. Axl dodged Adler...so Adler isn't there because Slash and Duff don't like him? They've associated with him, Axl hasn't. What's there to figure out? So yeah... not one thing I've just said is a lie. I'm sorry that you don't like that, but it is what it is. Duff and Slash returned to Axl's band, even Gilby Clarke can see that. They play Chinese songs, slash and duff knew damn well they probably didn't have a choice there. Idk...maybe you just like to read things as to how you prefer to see them then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhazUp Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 (edited) I am way too lazy to reply to points I have already refuted a few pages back but I will select a few key points real quick: Quote Adler was supposed to be involved. Slash and Duff met with him, not Axl. Slash and Duff met with Steven, not Axl. Slash and Duff hugged Steven onstage, not Axl. All Axl did was fist bump him. They spoke for less than a minute in total over 5 shows. No new music, no sign of new music. Which is textbook Guns N Roses in any form since 2008, really 2001 even too since all we've gotten is 1 album over that time. The no new album thing makes sense - this is a total revamp of GNR and they rightfully are touring as any freshly reunited band should and could do. It makes total sense that there has been no new album at this point in 2017. If this was 2014 before the big change up I would agree with you though but now that things are different the album situation is completely logical - for now. And I judge that based on the template laid down by most big reunited (or perceived by the public as reunited) band tours. Quote "Well we can't see under the skirt so, how do we know what's there??" GIVE ME A BREAK. Axl dodged Adler...so Adler isn't there because Slash and Duff don't like him? They've associated with him, Axl hasn't. What's there to figure out? I never said Adler isn't there because Slash and Duff don't like him. But who is to say Adler's antics - mind you that he has been proven the last two decades to be full of - didn't hinder his own potential part in the reunion that we are not privy to? Not saying that is the case, however my whole point is I think its stupid to assume anything at this point either way. Its just pointless Quote So yeah... not one thing I've just said is a lie. I'm sorry that you don't like that, but it is what it is. Well now you are just putting words in my mouth. I never said they were a lie nor even implied that. However the implications of the true things you did state are a tad too far reaching and are just pure extrapolation that may or may not be correct. And to me that kind of extrapolation is uncostructive Edited March 2, 2017 by WhazUp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsfan Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 17 minutes ago, Modano09 said: There are numerous reasons Duff and Slash should have gotten sober and kicked drugs before we get to "because Izzy wanted them to". The touring life-style wasn't for him. The fame wasn't for him. He made his sobriety a priority and was willing to leave the band for it. That's entirely understandable and commendable. But bottom line is when he wanted out he wanted out entirely, he sold his ownership stake and washed his hands of it all. If he thinks he's entitled to equal money to Axl/Slash/Duff I can see why that was a deal breaker. He can't profit from selling something and profit from owning it at the same time. That's not a bad point at all. But, it's not like Axl, Slash and Duff all got along over the years and hung out together. It's not even like they functioned as one team or a sole unit, they were divided and fought over everything GNR related for years. When Axl premiered his hand picked band at Rio in 2001, he said on stage that his "former friends" did everything they could to make sure he wasn't there. It's clearly referencing Slash and Duff, and look at the lawsuits between Duff/Slash V. Axl over the years. I mean I get the point...I see it completely where you're from. It's like starting a business with my 4 brothers, we buy one out because he's a drug addict. His rights are gone and can't be handed back. That's Adler. Another just quits and gives up his rights, that's Izzy, right? If we function correctly as a business for 20 years and then the other two, or even one of them come back and demand an equal piece of the pie because they were with the business, they've got to be on something right? So I agree in that context, hell no!!! I'm not dealing somebody back in who didn't stick it out like the 3 of us did. Agreed completely there. Problem is, that's not what happened. Just because Slash and Duff had legal this and that with GNR just like Axl, I mean, it's not like they functioned as a cohesive nit over the last twenty years to begin with. So if we split up, and I own the business name for 20 years, it doesn't do as well but now, the three of us brothers decide to start working together to really start making money again because alone not one of us can compete with what we did together before, it makes sense. But if the 4th brother wants to rejoin, and he had a significant part in us making the product a success to begin with, and he has a solid track record of being reliable, how d I not deal him back in? Only logical reason I can see is, because I want/need a larger piece of the pie. And because, we have no intention of crating new material for the business, just making money off of what's already there. And it appears, that's what we're seeing with GNR... The issue I like many have had is that in the case of a steven adler, he didn't care abut pay. He just wanted to play his material and if he screws up, he'd admit to it and he'd be out. I don't see what's so wrong with that. But Izzy Stradin, should have been dealt back in... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsfan Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 (edited) 17 minutes ago, WhazUp said: I am way too lazy to reply to points I have already refuted a few pages back but I will select a few key points real quick: The no new album thing makes sense - this is a total revamp of GNR and they rightfully are touring as any freshly reunited band should and could do. It makes total sense that there has been no new album at this point in 2017. If this was 2014 before the big change up I would agree with you though but now that things are different the album situation is completely logical - for now. And I judge that based on the template laid down by most big reunited (or perceived by the public as reunited) band tours. I never said Adler isn't there because Slash and Duff don't like him. But who is to say Adler's antics - mind you that he has been proven the last two decades to be full of - didn't hinder his own potential part in the reunion that we are not privy to? Not saying that is the case, however my whole point is I think its stupid to assume anything at this point either way. Its just pointless Well now you are just putting words in my mouth. I never said they were a lie nor even implied that. However the implications of the true things you did state are a tad too far reaching and are just pure extrapolation that may or may not be correct. And to me that kind of extrapolation is uncostructive -Well according to our own mods in 2015, the complete focus of GNR was new music? Could things have changed, maybe but, Axl said he played material for Slash and Duff. What material? What's left? Easy, Chinese leftovers. They could be on Chinese leftovers, they also said they could write and record newly written material. I get it and I think it works but, no effort has been put forth to that. And other than that vague statement, no one has said anything otherwise or to back it up. So, they have a plan to have a plan. Sound familiar? I know it does to me, and I've been following all forms of GNR for a long time.. or, every form of GNR since Axl has owned the name. What year was that again? And how many albums have been released in that time? Well, that answers that wouldn't you say? - I'm saying Adler isn't there because Axl doesn't like him. Axl has said and done nothing to prove otherwise. He said in 2012 "We invited Steven backstage in 2006 at the hard rock only to be met with lies about reunion numbers. Lesson learned" or something to that extent...so, as of 2012, he was back on the anti-steven train. According to Adler, they've fist bumped, said hi, hugged each other and that's it. Axl, apparently didn't even want Adler at one of the gigs. Do you think flying someone 15,000 miles to play 1 song per show, for two whole shows is cool? Do you really think that Axl isn't "PRIVY" (trendy word right now) to knowing tht Adler wanted a bigger role than that? I understand the issue and concern over Adler, which is why time and time again I like many other have stated that he shouldn't be the only drummer on this tour. Frank is the insurance policy incase Adler screwed up. Some wanted Matt. But it was the best case scenario and should have happened that way. Adler should have played more, and ithe ball should have been in his court to screw up.Clearly, Axl didn't want to deal with Adler and Slash and Duff had to accept that. The best compromise, is 5 shows with 8 songs being played total. That's the best Axl can do for Slash and Duff. If it was their call and a 2/3 vote outranks Axl, what would have happened? You think Frank would be there even over Matt Sorum, considering they didn't even know Frank...?What a nice guy Axl is - I repeated what you said. Big words don't change that Edited March 2, 2017 by Billsfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhazUp Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 On 2/28/2017 at 9:32 PM, Modano09 said: To use a sports analogy, just because a guy's your friend doesn't mean he's a good teammate. That can very well be true, especially when you take into account said friend's track record the past 20 years... maybe one day there will be more actual info to come out based on that. I will say though, seeing Popcorn was the highlight at the Dodger Stadium show, it was so cool seeing and especially hearing him play live. He sounded fantastic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts