whatashame Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 so, in hindsight we know that it took years to make the Chinese Democracy and we know of a few specific reasons for that. But let's put them in perspective now. the band hit the promo world tour in 2002 and the album was ready to be released. A little more than halfway thru, the got tour cancelled. The album was not released. We more or less know why the tour was cancelled, well, we don't but we know something. But why wasn't the album released in 2002 or 2003? What specifically happened to make all these guys go from "it's 100% done" to "it's 80% done and we need 3 months of mixing". Instead - 4 years of total silence same thing in 2006. Axl said "definitely 2006". World tour. Not cancelled. Successful. Nobody left. Well, Brian did but it I doubt they said "no album this year bikoz we need to give Frank Ferrer two years to re-cut all of the drums on the album". 2006 was gone. No album. World tour continued in 2007. No album. I mean, don't re-hash the same old same old 1999 lost album stuff. What do you know about winter 2002/2003 - why was the album not released then? What happened? and what happened in 2006? Why was the album pushed back then? And for two years. Let's focus on these two periods only. We don't need to recycle the whole 1999 story, and than dating back to 1995, and then going back to 1991 when Izzy left. It was a long time ago, 15 and 11 years ago, but it seems like yesterday. A lot of us lived thru it and experienced it firsthand. I mean, first hand - with the internet, and all. In real time, I mean. What was the word around the streets back then? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocknroll41 Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 Poor reception from the "beta testers," maybe? I remember mick wall saying he and a bunch of other journalists got to hear the completed version of the 2002 album and the general reception across the board was just "meh." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estrangedtwat Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 Dude. Nobody knows. Anything anyone says is just wild speculation. Closest we got to an explanation was the "open letter" from Merck in 2006 and even that was disavowed by Axl. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Słash Posted February 24, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted February 24, 2017 The only person to be blamed for the delay of Chinese Democracy is AXL ROSE. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasted Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 Micro processors. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew07 Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 i doubt will ever really know the complete truth, but i think what tommy said a while ago about the record company meddling probably played a big part, im sure they kept delaying to an extent hoping that slash would rejoin the band at some point and bam they would make way more money...but im sure axl also had a hand in tinkering too much with it as well....who knows Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildStar Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 It's funny how they had to give Frank 2 years to cut the drums! Matt got 2 takes for 2 albums for the Illusions. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maynard Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 Axl Rose is the only person to blame for the delays on the release of his solo album, Chinese Democracy. After the release of his solo album, he decided to become an entertainer and the last original songs we will hear from Axl Rose are on his solo album, Chinese Democracy. There's no such thing as Chinese Democracy 2 nor there are songs in his so-called 'vault'. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slash97 Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 Nobody knows anything exact, but IMO it was a mix between Axl fiddling around too much with it and the record company not being satisfied and pushing it back to force a reunion. It's quite unfortunate because it if would've been released in 2002 or 2006 it probably would've sold a lot better than it ultimately did and Axl may have been motivated enough to release more stuff. We'll never know. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Słash Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 1 hour ago, wasted said: Micro processors. No Charilie, it was Tiger Blood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estranged_85 Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 Combination of Axls state of mind and lots lots lots of legal stuff and people working against it. Just my thoughts. But who knows. I don't care really. One time i did but now i have no interest at all what happened or who was involved 2001-2015. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mendez Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 3 hours ago, WildStar said: It's funny how they had to give Frank 2 years to cut the drums! Matt got 2 takes for 2 albums for the Illusions. They only had two sets of sessions iirc, one in late 2006, and one in early 2007, which is when Frank, BBF, and Robin did their parts. Plus he only fully plays drums on one song, with varying partial drums on 4 more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maynard Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 23 minutes ago, estranged_85 said: people working against it. Nope, just Axl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhazUp Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 (edited) Its one of those things where we simply just do not know. These delays were probably a huge combination of lots of things - Axl and the record label clashing a ton on creative and business decisions would be the most obvious guess to make. If you are under contract, going against what a big record label wants from you might result in a shit ton of road blocking and discouragement. I can easily imagine both sides of the coin being particularly imperfect I wish there were more facts about it all, its still a mystery Edited February 24, 2017 by WhazUp 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estranged_85 Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 6 hours ago, maynard said: Nope, just Axl. Ok.. so your saying it was just a clear open road for Axl. 100% his fault. Maybe, idk what really happen but i do not think it was just a walk in the park for that guy in those mysterious years. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Jay Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 To me the delay just shows that the material wasn't very good for the band, if the songs were stellar they would otherwise have been released a lot sooner. Instead they had to re-record everything to make them sound good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkarmy Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 I think Axl went a bit nuts after the implosion of the 2002 tour and shut off his phone for months at a time. The Chinese whispers article is full of interesting info. I think the reason Axl appears much more happy and content in life is because he got some meds sorted out to combat his volatile emotions.... I also think that's why he put on so much weight. Most anti-depressants cause weight gain. But I agree it should have come out in 2001 or 2002 it would have sold much better. The worst thing was that they had the raw tracks and then Roy Thomas Baker or whatever his name is made them re-record everything. The stupidest thing was making Brain re-record Josh's tracks beat for beat. Giant waste of time and money. Chinese would have sold way way more if it had come out in 2002. Just glad Axl seems in a good place but I think getting back with Slash is the worst thing that could happen if we want new music. As much as I love seeing them together its clearly a cash grab. Tickets are waaaaaaaay too much and I doubt that Axl and Slash (aside from being on stage) spent more than a total of 10 hours in the same room, let alone creating new music. Axl's kinda bat shit but I can't help but love him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gackt Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 Axl simply lost interest in Guns N' Roses. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasted Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 45 minutes ago, Silent Jay said: To me the delay just shows that the material wasn't very good for the band, if the songs were stellar they would otherwise have been released a lot sooner. Instead they had to re-record everything to make them sound good. I think maybe they came off tour to re-record with Costanzo. But I remember something about a riot and then clear channel cancelled the tour. Axl couldn't get into a club because he was wearing fur. 2006 seems like the scheduling of the tour meant that they didn't get chance to record with Ron and Frank. But maybe also this is when Azoff was planning the Best buy deal. As in the label were working out how to make back the 14 mil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasted Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 45 minutes ago, Silent Jay said: To me the delay just shows that the material wasn't very good for the band, if the songs were stellar they would otherwise have been released a lot sooner. Instead they had to re-record everything to make them sound good. I think maybe they came off tour to re-record with Costanzo. But I remember something about a riot and then clear channel cancelled the tour. Axl couldn't get into a club because he was wearing fur. 2006 seems like the scheduling of the tour meant that they didn't get chance to record with Ron and Frank. But maybe also this is when Azoff was planning the Best buy deal. As in the label were working out how to make back the 14 mil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Jay Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 (edited) 38 minutes ago, Wagszilla said: They were done recording with Ron and Frank in February 2007 and that always reeked of bullshit to me. Just more Axl buying time. I really think that it was a great thing to have Ron on the record, not on every song (he's even on this I love), but his fretless thing just rocks. 23 minutes ago, wasted said: I think maybe they came off tour to re-record with Costanzo. But I remember something about a riot and then clear channel cancelled the tour. Axl couldn't get into a club because he was wearing fur. 2006 seems like the scheduling of the tour meant that they didn't get chance to record with Ron and Frank. But maybe also this is when Azoff was planning the Best buy deal. As in the label were working out how to make back the 14 mil. I thought they re-recorded it in 2004 for RTB? Then backing vocals and fretless guitars in 2006-7? Axl said in 2012 at the Philly show before You Could Be Mine that he got sued by corporate radios that were backing the tour. And then clear channel wanted to fuck this up. Still the 2006 tour was a success with more than one million tickets sold, Avenged Sevenfold, Bullet For My Valentine, Sebastian Bach, Korn, Eagles Of Death Metal supporting the tour along with the fact that walmart started things rolling with Black Ice in 2008. Edited February 25, 2017 by Silent Jay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Comstock Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 The 2002 band could've worked long term, but Axl obviously wasn't in the right headspace for a comeback tour (the riots, late starts, general inconsistency). 2006 should've been the year though. The tour went well, Better and the '99 demos had a good reception, and I think Axl was still passionate about CD/new albums - he announced the March 7(?) date in late 2006 I think. I imagine most of 2007 and early 2008 was spent bickering with the label working out the Best Buy deal. On a sidenote, I listened to the 2007 MSL leaks for the first time in years the other day and fuck they're awesome. The songs are so much better with less layers and Ron/Frank (CD especially suffers from the fretless). I've read that these demos were from around 2004, and the antiquiet demos from 2006. @Wagszilla know anything about that? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Jay Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 The 2007 There Was A Time is definitely the best version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericy210 Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 13 hours ago, whatashame said: so, in hindsight we know that it took years to make the Chinese Democracy and we know of a few specific reasons for that. But let's put them in perspective now. the band hit the promo world tour in 2002 and the album was ready to be released. A little more than halfway thru, the got tour cancelled. The album was not released. We more or less know why the tour was cancelled, well, we don't but we know something. But why wasn't the album released in 2002 or 2003? What specifically happened to make all these guys go from "it's 100% done" to "it's 80% done and we need 3 months of mixing". Instead - 4 years of total silence same thing in 2006. Axl said "definitely 2006". World tour. Not cancelled. Successful. Nobody left. Well, Brian did but it I doubt they said "no album this year bikoz we need to give Frank Ferrer two years to re-cut all of the drums on the album". 2006 was gone. No album. World tour continued in 2007. No album. I mean, don't re-hash the same old same old 1999 lost album stuff. What do you know about winter 2002/2003 - why was the album not released then? What happened? and what happened in 2006? Why was the album pushed back then? And for two years. Let's focus on these two periods only. We don't need to recycle the whole 1999 story, and than dating back to 1995, and then going back to 1991 when Izzy left. It was a long time ago, 15 and 11 years ago, but it seems like yesterday. A lot of us lived thru it and experienced it firsthand. I mean, first hand - with the internet, and all. In real time, I mean. What was the word around the streets back then? It was ISIS interference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moreblack Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 They were waiting for the MPC2000. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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