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Chinese Democracy in 1988?


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Sorry to say this, but you guys are delusional. It's just jamming around WTTJ chords which are different than Chinese Democracy chords. Slash used to jam and still jams to these chords before WTTJ and almost everytime in different rhythm's. This time it happened to sound like Chinese Democracy rhythm but not even close actually. Chinese Democracy riff is very basic and anyone could have come up with that riff. That being said I don't think this snippet of Tokyo show has anything to do with the inspiration/writing of ChiDem riff.

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6 minutes ago, wasted said:

Supposedly there was some old Guns material that was used in the  Nu Guns era. Fortus said he was working on a song that originated with Slash too. 

Yeah I remember Fortus mentioning that 

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30 minutes ago, Kelmi said:

Sorry to say this, but you guys are delusional. It's just jamming around WTTJ chords which are different than Chinese Democracy chords. Slash used to jam and still jams to these chords before WTTJ and almost everytime in different rhythm's. This time it happened to sound like Chinese Democracy rhythm but not even close actually. Chinese Democracy riff is very basic and anyone could have come up with that riff. That being said I don't think this snippet of Tokyo show has anything to do with the inspiration/writing of ChiDem riff.

How are those arguments? Because it's simple and anyone could have come up with it and Slash probably never jammed this again, the riff from CD could not be lifted from this recording..? Which was evidently reviewed by the band? Yeah..logic = 0.

This was a random jam Slash made and it probably was never done this way again, but..so? How does that stop someone from listening to this exact show tape and liking what he did and turning it into a riff? ..it doesn't. And you are goddamn right the CD riff is very basic, but what does that matter and change? Hint: ..nothing. It is the way it is played that gives it away. It's not just because it's the same chords.

Slash actually doesn't jam to these chords because this riff is in a different key than the Jungle intro.

If you actually looked at the situation at hand there are several clues that would be just too coincidental.

1) The tapes were reviewed for live era by Axl and Del james suspiciously around the same time the song CD was written

2) Slash plays it in the lower register now (like originally) instead of following the recorded version.

3) As the other posters have said, as Fortus mentioned, going back to old Slash ideas is no new thing with this band, and happened already.

4) Most importantly: The riff just sounds too similar, it is fucking EXACT. You listened to the posted recording and think it sounds "not even close". Sorry but you are wrong and have to doubt your ears here then. It's the EXACT same 3 chords, played in the exact same rhythm and with the exact same timing.

You can go on and believe that all those things just happened out of coincidence, but fact of the matter is that by a very large percentage, it is very, very, unlikely. If you don't think it sounds the same, and several other people DO, including musicians such as myself, then you may have to go the logical route and accept that, instead of the majority of people being delusional, you may just happen to be wrong instead.

Edited by StrangerInThisTown
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6 hours ago, soon said:

Is this 'Riff 0001 - A' ?

I wouldn't be surprised at all if Axl took note of it that night and squirrelled it away.

This I think is the most likely explanation. Plenty of musicians that have worked with Axl have commented about his talent for picking up on promising snippets of things and turning them into something, sometimes years later.

He probably has the musical equivalent of an eidectic memory.

Pretty cool find.

Edit: Just to add this is perhaps why Axl has rule that any music created live or in a studio by someone who is in the employ of GNR belongs to GNR (him).

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Thx for the likes here and Gunsguy for sharing! :) 

My personal opinion is that this definitely is a coincidence but a great one! :) Had to put the car aside when I heard it!! And it was real! ;)

Never had the intention to claim Slash wrote that riff, or bash the formations post-Slash&Duff, but wanted to share a funny musical coincidence (IMO!!! ;) ). But nice to see the discussions.

Had these clips on my phone for a few months and when I recently started this instagram account to show my GN'R stuff, I thought it was nice to share this. Feel free to have a look and follow me, I'll be adding stuff on a daily base. 

 

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2 minutes ago, Wagszilla said:

If Slash had written it in full and it hadn't just been a riff or something like that, it would've been held off CD like Jackie Chan was.

 

How do you know "Jackie Chan" had a riff by Slash? 

Is your source Wasted/Charlie and Rovim?

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1 hour ago, remcognr said:

Thx for the likes here and Gunsguy for sharing! :) 

My personal opinion is that this definitely is a coincidence but a great one! :) Had to put the car aside when I heard it!! And it was real! ;)

Never had the intention to claim Slash wrote that riff, or bash the formations post-Slash&Duff, but wanted to share a funny musical coincidence (IMO!!! ;) ). But nice to see the discussions.

Had these clips on my phone for a few months and when I recently started this instagram account to show my GN'R stuff, I thought it was nice to share this. Feel free to have a look and follow me, I'll be adding stuff on a daily base. 

 

Nice ta see you here!!  Great find! 

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Its not that hard.  Just that some people dont want to accept that slash kinda did a couple of things on cd just like axl did a couple of things on some snakepit/vr stuff ( i mean on the demos, not the very record)

Its been said already that songs like "fall to pieces, serial killer and slither ". were on the options for a gnr record. ( even axl said something about it).

Obviusly there was more demos ( better, til, cd, itw) on that 95-96 period of time. Then the band broke up and .. Well, slash took what he wanted/axl didnt wanted,  and axl kinda did the same.

They both are pretty obvius and heavy musicians/arrengers on whatever they do. U always can tell..  If u are a fan u can tell, and if u are a huge fan and an experimented musician u can tell 100% .

Im not surprised at all.. I mean.. Dont get me wrong.. THIS IS A MAGNIFIC FIND.. CONGRATS..  but what i mean is that as much as some of u hate contraband or snakepits albums or chinese democracy album, u're not getting that u're rejecting even some of your idol work and influence ( axl or slash)

 

Nice find...  Kudos on that.

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Not to be mean or anything but anybody who has ever picked a guitar and played some random power chords played the Chinese Democracy riff at some point, before or after it was released without even realizing it.

It's pretty much the most basic chord progression there is...

Edited by The Glow Inc.
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1 hour ago, The Glow Inc. said:

Not to be mean or anything but anybody who has ever picked a guitar and played some random power chords played the Chinese Democracy riff at some point, before or after it was released without even realizing it.

It's pretty much the most basic chord progression there is...

things like that don't happen by accident

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Did AC/DC write Chinese Democracy? TNT uses the same three chord progression.

Conspiracy.

But on a serious note I don't think this was a conscious songwriting influence. Yeah the phrasing is funny because it really does create the illusion (pun intended) but it's nothing more than him jamming over the chords to the intro of Jungle as he often does. I file it under coincidence. Very cool find though!

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22 minutes ago, Silent Jay said:

Actually that isn't true.

E G A (in TNT)

D F G (in Chinese)

That's the same progression.

Yeah Malcolm frets his E in TNT in the traditional way which lets the major third be heard when it should (in technicality) be a minor, but nevertheless.

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17 minutes ago, James Bond said:

E G A (in TNT)

D F G (in Chinese)

That's the same progression.

Yeah Malcolm frets his E in TNT in the traditional way which lets the major third be heard when it should (in technicality) be a minor, but nevertheless.

yeah my bad I'm not sure why I was thinking DEG. The thing is AC/DC don't use the F chord much. 

Edited by Silent Jay
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Absoloutely nuts to me that Slash essentially wrote Chinese Democracy's riff. Axl called him a cancer and talked shit for all those years...only to use his riff for the title track of his album with NuGnr :P

First time I heard CD I thought the song would've fit in quite well with the Illusions. In fact, before I was educated on GN'R I thought it was an illusions song. It's a great opener and title track and it's awesome this lineup still plays it. 

Good find.

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13 hours ago, Wagszilla said:

I don't, exactly.

But it's a song titled "Jackie Chan" when a song written by GNR in 1995 was going to be included on a Jackie Chan movie soundtrack.

 Axl himself mentioned Chinese Democracy being the album that "made it through the red tape".

Two sources for you to put in your top hat and smoke. 

I didn't know that Jackie originated from 95. 

Fortus has said they arent just working on CD era material but stuff from old Guns too. This is before the reunion happened. 

Even Tommy said when he came in they were working on stuff that were started in old Guns. I guess Tobias and Dizzy material. This I Love is from 94 or something. 

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3 minutes ago, Wagszilla said:

Digging through the archives, Slash wasn't playing with them in 1996 (not 95 like I said) so it's probably Tobias/Finck on that one.

 

Still it's interesting that it's from 96. 

Not sure Finck was around at that time? 

I wouldn't be surprised if there's some Slash and Duff material from 96 that Axl held on to. Which is what Fortus seems to be alluding to. 

 

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16 hours ago, IncitingChaos said:

I always thought The Darkness I believe in a thing called love had a similar intro to CD...I mean it is a popular chord progression but with the way it is sequenced makes it similar 

Given Chinese Democracy was being played at Rio years earlier and presumably was from the late 90's, maybe Axl should sue over some different sounding riffs that are played vaguely similar?

Edited by AtariLegend
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7 minutes ago, AtariLegend said:

Given Chinese Democracy was being played at Rio years earlier and presumably was from the late 90's, maybe Axl should sue over some different sounding riffs that are played vaguely similar?

Please no, his lawsuits take up all of his time and somehow set him back a decade. 

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