Use your Illusion: Izzy Stradlin's Contributions

[Blackstar]

4 minutes ago, Free Bird said:

That doesn't make it an Axl song.

Like I said before, Guns songs are a band effort.

I didn't say it makes it an Axl song. You said that Axl's input was limited to the lyrics and I just pointed out that it wasn't the case.

Edited March 10, 2017 by Blackstar

[double talkin jive mfkr]

36 minutes ago, EvanG said:

Most people that have been saying all that shit are fanboys on the internet who have never even seen the original band live. This whole ''Izzy is larger than life'' BS has almost become a myth on these forums. Come on...

Again, I don't want to take anything away from Izzy Stradlin, the guy has written some killer songs and riffs and he was very important for this band. But don't give me that iconic hero crap, we're talking about a rock band. If you've never seen the band or knew the band in person it's even impossible talking about ''overall insights'' and ''uncanny chemistry between him and Axl'' and whatever you've been saying in your post. 

you sound like an insider by the way your talking, care to explain your unique perspective? 

 

im not a fucking fan boy buddy, i've been into the band since 87 so i don't know what you're saying a fan boy of gnr would love the current incarnation and even go as far as saying CD was awesome 

 

i've seen many interviews and read everything around about the little information that is out there on izzy and his songs speak for themselves, a truly unsung hero and you say you dont want to downplay his contributions but do so in the same sentence, i personaslly think all of his songs that he has contributed go up against any good rock and roll song on the planet and why does that mythical status bother you? he's certainly more elusive than axl, and one can only imagine how they interacted in the songwriting process, you seem to be really negative about the subject whereas i see nothing wrong with imagining how the relationship between axl and izzy evolved within a songwriting context  

Edited March 10, 2017 by double talkin jive mfkr

[Free Bird]

1 hour ago, Blackstar said:

I didn't say it makes it an Axl song. You said that Axl's input was limited to the lyrics and I just pointed out that it wasn't the case.

You didn't say this, but the poster I quoted first mentioned SCOM as an Axl song. Maybe Axl didn't just do lyrics and melodies but that song is far away from a typical Axl song.

[WhazUp]

I like the vibe Izzy brought to the tunes, you have these quirky bluesy but "out-there" tunes like Dust N' Bones, Pretty Tied Up, 14 Years, etc. plus everything else he helped write for those records.  It was still an ensemble effort to craft a specific vibe by a specific group of musicians (even without Adler in this case)

I will say that if GNR ever does get around to working on a new album I hope that there are a couple of Izzy penned tracks on it - old or new

[Blackstar]

4 minutes ago, Free Bird said:

You didn't say this, but the poster I quoted first mentioned SCOM as an Axl song. Maybe Axl didn't just do lyrics and melodies but that song is far away from a typical Axl song.

I guess that by typical Axl song you mean the epic piano ballads. Axl though has written songs that differ from each other stylistically, from Dead Horse and Breakdown to OIAM to Shotgun Blues and My World.

Anyway, SCOM, like most of the AFD songs were written the way I said. They were nobody's songs, they were GnR songs. A member may have contributed more to one song than to another, but it was a collaborative thing.

[Free Bird]

34 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

I guess that by typical Axl song you mean the epic piano ballads. Axl though has written songs that differ from each other stylistically, from Dead Horse and Breakdown to OIAM to Shotgun Blues and My World.

Anyway, SCOM, like most of the AFD songs were written the way I said. They were nobody's songs, they were GnR songs. A member may have contributed more to one song than to another, but it was a collaborative thing.

No other thing did I say

[MADDOGJONES]

5 hours ago, double talkin jive mfkr said:

This was one of the best articles written to showcase Izzy's unsung hero talents. In the last year or so it's become apparent that izzy's true force and songwriting prowess is what made GNR as big as it is. Axl will surely smell the roses soon and find a way to get him back. Their current set list is very tired. Could you imagine if they included 14 years, Pretty Tied up and Dust N Bones + think about you to the mix. Jesus, it would be off the charts HUGE... 

The article credits izzy co writes as izzy songs so the article isn't all that great. How is right next door to hell an izzy song anymore than it is an Axl song? Izzy was a great writer, but guns biggest and most successful songs weren't written by him, so I'm not sure how you can say that it was his force and songwriting that made them so big. Sweet child broke GNR and it's not an "izzy song", after that November rain is probably the most successful song for the band, again, not an izzy song. 

[Billsfan]

20 hours ago, RONIN said:

Yeah -- not sure what the author was thinking there. Arguably the best Izzy contribution along with YCBM and Don't Cry on Illusions.

Pretty Tied Up, Locomotive and Breakdown are the highlights for me on UYI 2.

Well, it's not politically correct to like a song about degrading women now I guess

FFS

[EvanG]

2 hours ago, double talkin jive mfkr said:

you sound like an insider by the way your talking, care to explain your unique perspective? 

 

im not a fucking fan boy buddy, i've been into the band since 87 so i don't know what you're saying a fan boy of gnr would love the current incarnation and even go as far as saying CD was awesome 

 

i've seen many interviews and read everything around about the little information that is out there on izzy and his songs speak for themselves, a truly unsung hero and you say you dont want to downplay his contributions but do so in the same sentence, i personaslly think all of his songs that he has contributed go up against any good rock and roll song on the planet and why does that mythical status bother you? he's certainly more elusive than axl, and one can only imagine how they interacted in the songwriting process, you seem to be really negative about the subject whereas i see nothing wrong with imagining how the relationship between axl and izzy evolved within a songwriting context  

You're the one who seems to be an insider because you talk about stuff that you can't know about unless you actually are on the inside and you have a perspective that the rest doesn't have. But I doubt that you are an insider, you get all your insights from reading about the band as you mentioned. I guess that makes you an expert then, huh? From reading many interviews and information on Izzy Stradlin you seem to know about his ''uncanny chemistry'' and what not. If that's your logic, then good luck to you.  

Also, you should learn to read better because I never downplayed his contributions. All I'm saying is that GnR were succesful and a unique band because of all the different talents and personalities in the band. I don't think it's fair to say one member was more important or contributed more than the other just because you've been reading a lot about them. You can't know that, you're just a fan like the rest of us, you don't know how that band worked back then. It's ignorant to think otherwise and if you don't understand that, then again... good luck to you.

[double talkin jive mfkr]

3 hours ago, EvanG said:

You're the one who seems to be an insider because you talk about stuff that you can't know about unless you actually are on the inside and you have a perspective that the rest doesn't have. But I doubt that you are an insider, you get all your insights from reading about the band as you mentioned. I guess that makes you an expert then, huh? From reading many interviews and information on Izzy Stradlin you seem to know about his ''uncanny chemistry'' and what not. If that's your logic, then good luck to you.  

Also, you should learn to read better because I never downplayed his contributions. All I'm saying is that GnR were succesful and a unique band because of all the different talents and personalities in the band. I don't think it's fair to say one member was more important or contributed more than the other just because you've been reading a lot about them. You can't know that, you're just a fan like the rest of us, you don't know how that band worked back then. It's ignorant to think otherwise and if you don't understand that, then again... good luck to you.

thanks for the good luck I'll take it 

 

it does make me an expert as i'll go to toe to toe with anyone on the subject ha 

 

i don't think were necessarily disagreeing, i'm merely saying without saying that it's BS that he's not in the band right now, he quit because axl was being a jerk and squandering money, not because the band got too big and he was a founding member that wrote a large bulk of the top songs so my friend, he should be back in and axl should throw a decent bone to him 

[RONIN]

11 hours ago, EvanG said:

I'm always amazed at how people speculate without really knowing much about it. Dust N Bones is considered an Izzy song because he sings lead vocal on it, but who is even to say that he wrote the lyrics? Isn't there a demo out there with Duff singing it? And Duff's also credited the same way Izzy and Slash are for that song. I'm not saying Duff wrote the lyrics, I'm saying we can't know who did. (although the line ''sometimes these women are so easy'' is basically what the whole song "It's so Easy" is about which Duff wrote) Same goes for all the other songs Izzy is co-credited for. Maybe he did have the biggest hand in those songs, and maybe only a few of them. We simply don't know.

They all have a signature style to their songwriting. I'm sure everyone added their flourishes to each song but Axl and Izzy are the principal songwriting team of the band. To tell the difference between their songwriting style is really not that hard. Does Double Talkin Jive and Pretty Tied Up sound like Axl songs? Does Don't Damn Me sound like an Izzy song?

Likewise with It's So Easy. Clearly a Duff song with some Axl attitude infused into it in the songwriting. Ironically, some of the best rockers were written by the laidback Stradlin. You Could Be Mine and Perfect Crime. They probably started out as mellow rockers like 14 years before Axl, Duff, and Slash sleazed them up.

11 hours ago, WhenYou'reTalkinToYourself said:

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So, Civil War has sophomoric lyrics but Pretty Tied Up (which I listen to all the time btw) is a masterpiece with cohesive lyrics.

I didn't make that comparison, but sure, I think PTU has better lyrics than Civil War. Pretty Tied Up accomplishes what it sets out to do (a cool rock song) with witty and amusing lyrics written in a way only Stradlin can. I feel like Axl has mixed results when he tries to write something meaningful and poignant. Estranged works for me, but Civil War doesn't. His lyrics sometimes have a hard time stradlin' the line between pretentious and meaningful. I love the lyrics to Don't Damn Me and and Dead Horse -- they don't aspire to the heights of civil war and november rain, but the lyrics make a much bigger impact for me personally. If you want to talk Axl epics with great lyrics, I'd choose Locomotive, Estranged and Coma as better examples of his writing ability. 

Quote

 

Anyway, of course Izzy was a vital part in Guns and is (was) a super songwriter. I love most of his songs.

My point was that the other 3 are fully capable of writing great songs as well.

I don't need to wait to see what they are able to to do without Izzy.

 

Well, they haven't done much as a band since Izzy quit so it remains to be seen what they are truly capable of doing as far as new songs go. Their inability to release shit only proves the theory further that this band cannot truly work without the four principals together. 

Of course they're all individually capable of writing a good song, but Guns N' Roses is Axl, Izzy, Duff and Slash. Remove one person out and the songs will be of a lower quality imho. The magic comes from them all collaborating. If you're purely an Axl fan or Slash fan, you may see things differently I suppose.

Use your Illusion without Izzy would have been a very different experience imho. As it stands, it seems to be a popular consensus that if Slash hadn't sidelined Izzy and lowered his guitars in the mix, the UYI albums would have turned out a lot better. The guitar interplay between those two is legendary and you are taking a huge step down by not pairing Izzy with Slash on guitar just as you're taking another huge step down not pairing Axl with Izzy for the songwriting. 

2:30 onwards  should answer the question of what the chances are to see an album with just these three in the band.

[RONIN]

10 hours ago, WhenYou'reTalkinToYourself said:

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Patience was an example of a song that is widely considered to be an Izzy song. I could have used PTU or DTJ instead.

My point remains: is Izzy the so called main songwriter of the band (he and Axl) or did they all had an input in everything?

 

Axl and Izzy were a songwriting team for AFD and Lies. Much of UYI was written during the AFD era as a collaborative effort -- therefore we can conclude that for the most part, Guns was a collaborative effort between Axl and Izzy as songwriters. I think the second half of UYI is where you get each person bringing in their own material and then presenting it to the band to rip up and reinvent (Coma, Locomotive, 14 Years, etc.). I believe Slash went a step further after UYI and was bringing in finished songs w/lyrics for the unmade '96 guns album  (what became Snakepit). That's where you get the immortal "just shutup and sing" that Slash allegedly told Axl.

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Are there Izzy songs, Axl songs, Slash songs or there are all team songs?

See above. By Izzy songs, Slash songs, Axl songs -- I take it that they mean that said person was the biggest influence on the way the song turned out and/or the person who originated the song: i.e. Izzy writing Perfect Crime which ended up being totally different from what he probably envisioned. Yet, you would have no Perfect Crime without Stradlin. Coma is a Slash song but it wouldn't be half the song it is without Axl's lyrics. Do you see the catch-22 situation here? The biggest takeway here is that Izzy is writing the foundation of most of the guns songs we love, take that away and you just have a very different songwriting scenario for the band. They could not overcome this in the 90's and broke up for 20 years. Hence, the importance of Izzy to the songwriting formula for Guns N Roses.

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If there are songs that we have to consider them as Izzy songs, then there are non-Izzy songs as well (I mentioned them before) and they would constitute a great album.

Theoretically, yes. But again, we don't know how involved Izzy (or Duff) were in these "Axl" and "Slash" songs on Use your Illusion. As mentioned before, they wrote AFD, Lies and most of UYI as a band.

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So the 3 can make a great album without Izzy.

Sure. So where's this great album then? What have they accomplished as a band since Izzy left? Nothing.

 

[WhenYou'reTalkinToYourself]

37 minutes ago, RONIN said:

So where's this great album then? What have they accomplished as a band since Izzy left? Nothing.

Since Izzy left they are touring (with a big 23 years lasting break).

1 hour ago, RONIN said:

Well, they haven't done much as a band since Izzy quit so it remains to be seen what they are truly capable of doing as far as new songs go. Their inability to release shit only proves the theory further that this band cannot truly work without the four principals together. 

I'm not sure that the reason behind the lack of a new album is their inabilty or their (Axl's) unwillingness. I believe it's the latter.

My objection was that it cannot be seen as a FACT that they cannot release a good album without Izzy, as stated earlier in this thread.

My opinion is that if they can write Coma or Estranged without Izzy, then they surely can put out a great album.

Unless Slash cannot write any new music after World On Fire and Axl has lost his ability to write good lyrics and melodies. Or he cannot be inspired by Slash's playing any more.

1 hour ago, RONIN said:

Of course they're all individually capable of writing a good song, but Guns N' Roses is Axl, Izzy, Duff and Slash. Remove one person out and the songs will be of a lower quality imho. The magic comes from them all collaborating. If you're purely an Axl fan or Slash fan, you may see things differently I suppose.

If I had to chose between a new album with Izzy or an album without him, the answer is obvious.

On the other hand, I don't consider Estranged, NR and most of the non-Izzy songs to be of a lower quality.

Most of them may not be on the AFD level, but we won't get another AFD even if Izzy and Steven return.

59 minutes ago, RONIN said:

Theoretically, yes. But again, we don't know how involved Izzy (or Duff) were in these "Axl" and "Slash" songs on Use your Illusion. As mentioned before, they wrote AFD, Lies and most of UYI as a band.

True, but the same could be said for the Izzy songs. 

1 hour ago, RONIN said:

They could not overcome this in the 90's and broke up for 20 years. Hence, the importance of Izzy to the songwriting formula for Guns N Roses.

It's a bit stretched to say that they broke up because they couldn't write new songs imo.

I think the real reason was that they tried (or believed that the others tried) to take the control of the band.

Izzy was there when all the drama started to escalate and he couldn't do anything to prevent the worst.

[RONIN]

13 minutes ago, WhenYou'reTalkinToYourself said:

Since Izzy left they are touring (with a big 23 years lasting break).

I'm not sure that the reason behind the lack of a new album is their inabilty or their (Axl's) unwillingness. I believe it's the latter.

My objection was that it cannot be seen as a FACT that they cannot release a good album without Izzy, as stated earlier in this thread.

My opinion is that if they can write Coma or Estranged without Izzy, then they surely can put out a great album.

Unless Slash cannot write any new music after World On Fire and Axl has lost his ability to write good lyrics and melodies. Or he cannot be inspired by Slash's playing any more.

If I had to chose between a new album with Izzy or an album without him, the answer is obvious.

On the other hand, I don't consider Estranged, NR and most of the non-Izzy songs to be of a lower quality.

Most of them may not be on the AFD level, but we won't get another AFD even if Izzy and Steven return.

True, but the same could be said for the Izzy songs. 

It's a bit stretched to say that they broke up because they couldn't write new songs imo.

I think the real reason was that they tried (or believed that the others tried) to take the control of the band.

Izzy was there when all the drama started to escalate and he couldn't do anything to prevent the worst.

Gotcha. I think we're actually pretty much in agreement on most things. You believe that they can release a great album without Izzy and I actually agree that they can. Where we may or may not disagree is:

A) There is no way that this album would be as good as one with Izzy co-writing and playing guitar.

B) The likelihood of a new album without Izzy being involved creatively in bridging the gap between Axl and Duff/Slash. It seems unlikely to me that they can overcome this if they couldn't do it before in the past. Axl hasn't changed. He's only gotten worse since he's been running the band solo for the last 20 years. Duff and Slash are successful in their own right and probably even less inclined to compromise.

We shall see I suppose. My hope is that they just go the full way and cash out completely by emptying the vault -- just dump all the 1996 demos and chinese stuff into a box set and give us that stuff (this would include the Izzy songs Axl still has). That way everyone is happy and they don't mess up the legacy by doing a brand new album that may or may not be any good. 

I hate what has happened to bands like Metallica and artists like Chris Cornell. There's a dignity in going out when you're on top and quitting while you're ahead. Maybe GnR did that with Illusions. Without Izzy and Steven/Matt in the lineup, I feel like the odds of an album worthy of AFD or Illusions is very unlikely...especially at this stage of their careers. The talent may be there, but the hunger/ambition isn't.

Edited March 11, 2017 by RONIN

[WhenYou'reTalkinToYourself]

2 minutes ago, RONIN said:

Gotcha. I think we're actually pretty much in agreement on most things. You believe that they can release a great album without Izzy and I actually agree that they can. Where we may or may not disagree is:

A) There is no way that this album would be as good as one with Izzy co-writing and playing guitar.

B) The likelihood of a new album without Izzy being involved creatively in bridging the gap between Axl and Duff/Slash. It seems unlikely to me that they can overcome this if they couldn't do it before in the past. Axl hasn't changed. He's only gotten worse since he's been running the band solo for the last 20 years. Duff and Slash are successful in their own right and probably even less inclined to compromise.

We shall see I suppose. My hope is that they just go the full way and cash out completely by emptying the vault completely -- just dump all the 96 demos and chinese stuff into a box set and give us that stuff (this would include the Izzy songs Axl still has). That way everyone is happy and they don't mess up the legacy by doing a brand new album that may or may not be any good. 

I hate what has happened to bands like Metallica and artists like Chris Cornell. There's a dignity in going out when you're on top and quitting while you're ahead. Maybe GnR did that with Illusions. Without Izzy and Steven/Matt in the lineup, I feel like the odds of an album worthy of AFD or Illusions is very unlikely...especially at this stage of their careers.

I agree with everything except that Axl hasn't changed or he is worse. I don't know that. Axl seems to be in a whole different mood since the reunion.

And if there still is a creative gap between Axl and Slash, if Axl insists on industrial rock for example, then I can't see Izzy bridging that gap since he is artistically far from that.

Izzy helped holding the interpersonal relations tighter back in the day, much more than bridging any artistic deviations imo.

He helped the rest of the band (especially Slash) to be able to 'deal' with Axl. I'm not sure that this thing is needed any more. I hope not.

[EvanG]

12 hours ago, double talkin jive mfkr said:

thanks for the good luck I'll take it 

 

it does make me an expert as i'll go to toe to toe with anyone on the subject ha 

 

i don't think were necessarily disagreeing, i'm merely saying without saying that it's BS that he's not in the band right now, he quit because axl was being a jerk and squandering money, not because the band got too big and he was a founding member that wrote a large bulk of the top songs so my friend, he should be back in and axl should throw a decent bone to him 

I'm humble enough to admit that we, THE FANS, and that includes you and I and all the other people on this forum, can't really know about the stuff you've been claiming to know just by reading interviews. It doesn't work that way. You weren't there at the beginning of the band. You weren't there when they were rehearsing and putting songs together. You weren't there in the studio. You weren't there on stage playing the songs live. You don't even know anyone of them in person. Yet you type posts on here with insights like you're this big insider, but you're clearly not. 

Edited March 11, 2017 by EvanG

[EvanG]

9 hours ago, RONIN said:

They all have a signature style to their songwriting. I'm sure everyone added their flourishes to each song but Axl and Izzy are the principal songwriting team of the band.

Including Slash.

[alfierose]

This thread has had a time out and a number of posts removed due to derailment. This seems to be happening a fair bit in D&N as both myself and @RussTCB will attest to.

Please post in a respectful manner towards other members, from what I can work out there was fault on both sides of this argument - general rudeness and condescension from @MADDOGJONES followed by personal attacks from @BorderlineCrazy. 

We don't wish to move from thread to thread cleaning up avoidable arguments so the next instance will result in warning points for everyone involved regardless of who started what. We have a report system for posts that break rules or are considered offensive. Please use it and spare other members having to wade through pages of squabbling.

Thanks

[the rush]

I think Izzy was lazy on the illusions. Aside from writing credits, his guitarwork cannot be described as anything else other than lazy, especially compared to his guitarwork on AFD. I remeber when I first put the illusions in my CD player, that was my first and strongest disappointment: "Where the hell is the other guitar??!" I was addicted to double lead guitarwork

[double talkin jive mfkr]

6 hours ago, EvanG said:

I'm humble enough to admit that we, THE FANS, and that includes you and I and all the other people on this forum, can't really know about the stuff you've been claiming to know just by reading interviews. It doesn't work that way. You weren't there at the beginning of the band. You weren't there when they were rehearsing and putting songs together. You weren't there in the studio. You weren't there on stage playing the songs live. You don't even know anyone of them in person. Yet you type posts on here with insights like you're this big insider, but you're clearly not. 

jesus, what's your fucking point? you make zero sense. what is your point??? that all 5 are what made the band great and fans don't know shit? 

[Darkenchantress]

2 minutes ago, the rush said:

I think Izzy was lazy on the illusions. Aside from writing credits, his guitarwork cannot be described as anything else other than lazy, especially compared to his guitarwork on AFD. I remeber when I first put the illusions in my CD player, that was my first and strongest disappointment: "Where the hell is the other guitar??!" I was addicted to double lead guitarwork

To be fair, I don't think Izzy not being audible on the UYI's is exactly only his fault or had nothing to do with being lazy. I think it was more a matter of not being happy with what they were doing anymore and having to put up with his still wasted friends while he was newly clean and sober (that and Axl being Axl). He went to the studio, recorded his parts and left, so Slash said later he had to double his guitar to play some of Izzy's part. 

[BorderlineCrazy]

2 hours ago, Darkenchantress said:

To be fair, I don't think Izzy not being audible on the UYI's is exactly only his fault or had nothing to do with being lazy. I think it was more a matter of not being happy with what they were doing anymore and having to put up with his still wasted friends while he was newly clean and sober (that and Axl being Axl). He went to the studio, recorded his parts and left, so Slash said later he had to double his guitar to play some of Izzy's part. 

Yeah, Izzy's heart wasn't in the band anymore and it's not that hard to understand why. The sessions were a mess, the band's style and sound were dead without Steven (and with Matt being a completely different kind of drummer), he was sick of dealing with Axl, he was worried that Slash and Duff were gonna kill themselves and he wasn't happy with the direction the band was taking (and how nobody seemed to care about his opinion). The only good reason there seemed to be to stay was money and that wasn't a good enough reason for him.

4 hours ago, alfierose said:

This thread has had a time out and a number of posts removed due to derailment. This seems to be happening a fair bit in D&N as both myself and @RussTCB will attest to.

Please post in a respectful manner towards other members, from what I can work out there was fault on both sides of this argument - general rudeness and condescension from @MADDOGJONES followed by personal attacks from @BorderlineCrazy. 

We don't wish to move from thread to thread cleaning up avoidable arguments so the next instance will result in warning points for everyone involved regardless of who started what. We have a report system for posts that break rules or are considered offensive. Please use it and spare other members having to wade through pages of squabbling.

Thanks

I totally agree with this and I'm really sorry.

I think I've been involved in a lot of discussion lately, mostly regarding the Steven situation. I see all those discussions as respectful from both sides and I think it was cool to argue and exchange opinions with a lot of people (although it got too long and became a bit tedious in the end) but this case was different. I saw from the very beginning there was no chance to have a nice, civil conversation at all and I meant to stay away but I couldn't help it and it got awful and it was stupid and unnecessary. I'm really sorry about that and I'll do my best to handle things better next time.

[EvanG]

2 hours ago, double talkin jive mfkr said:

jesus, what's your fucking point? you make zero sense. what is your point??? that all 5 are what made the band great and fans don't know shit? 

Funny, I feel the same way about your posts, because even apart from the bad grammar, you make no sense to me.

The point that I make in every post addressing you, is that you make comments on here relating to band stuff that you can't possibly know just by reading articles. I've typed this three times now. If you fail to understand my point then I can't help you, dude.

Have a nice day.

[MADDOGJONES]

21 hours ago, double talkin jive mfkr said:

thanks for the good luck I'll take it 

 

it does make me an expert as i'll go to toe to toe with anyone on the subject ha 

 

i don't think were necessarily disagreeing, i'm merely saying without saying that it's BS that he's not in the band right now, he quit because axl was being a jerk and squandering money, not because the band got too big and he was a founding member that wrote a large bulk of the top songs so my friend, he should be back in and axl should throw a decent bone to him 

Should he repay Axl, Slash and Duff the money they paid him when he left the band to rejoin? Or should the boys just let it go and throw a decent bone at him? Would they be squandering money? Or would that be okay?

[Darkenchantress]

39 minutes ago, BorderlineCrazy said:

Yeah, Izzy's heart wasn't in the band anymore and it's not that hard to understand why. The sessions were a mess, the band's style and sound were dead without Steven (and with Matt being a completely different kind of drummer), he was sick of dealing with Axl, he was worried that Slash and Duff were gonna kill themselves and he wasn't happy with the direction the band was taking (and how nobody seemed to care about his opinion). The only good reason there seemed to be to stay was money and that wasn't a good enough reason for him.

 

Yes, that's why I refuse to believe that him not being on the tour is only about the money. This in particular broke my heart:

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"Since his run-in with his neighbor a few months earlier, Axl had been living in various hotels, often the Sunset Marquis, and his new house in Malibu. After the Rio shows, he basically moved into the Record Plant, where he was recording his vocal tracks. Photographer Neal Preston found him living in Studio A, which Axl had equipped with a bed and an exercise bike. "There was also a punching bag," Preston recalls, "and two pinball machines- KISS and Elton John. No one was supposed to be allowed in while Axl was there, but he let me take some photos of him playing pinball. He seemed calm and said he was working hard on their new album." Studio personnel noted that Axl was staying awake for two or three days at a time, seeming to run on sheer adrenaline and nervous energy. Izzy Stradlin, perceived by everyone as the only stable member of the band, was prodded to ask Axl about finishing. "I tried talking to him," Izzy said later. "[I suggested] if we had a schedule, came in [to the studio] at a certain time... And he completely blew up at me."

"There is no fucking schedule," Axl snarled. Izzy never bothered Axl again, and Izzy never worked on the new album again either."