Use your Illusion: Izzy Stradlin's Contributions

[double talkin jive mfkr]

Bad apples i was surprised to learn of izzy's involvement here, it seems like definetly one of the most funkiest songs written by gnr maybe other than rocket queen 

I'm not sure if axl could handle that one now but wouldn't that be something. I am big fan of that tune, I wonder what they think of it now over the years. Never played it live right? 

[magnumpi]

2 hours ago, double talkin jive mfkr said:

buddy all you do is be a contraraian on the subeject and look to derail insightful discussion so beat it, you don't know what your talking about and you really seem like you're being entirely annoying on purpose  

OK so this Madd Dogg person is trolling this thread and ruining another discussuon.

He must be a paid shill.

Is therectil a way to block a poster so you don't read their threads?  Otherwise the best thing to do is completely ignore the shill.

[magnumpi]

17 hours ago, EvanG said:

That fanboy comment did it, huh? I'd even forgotten I made that comment, that was days ago... that's how unimportant this is to me. But good to know you didn't forget. I guess one of the perks of being a fanboy. Seriously, it's like dealing with 12 year olds in here. Fanboy is just a term for someone who is too fanatic and isn't objective in my book, if you judge someone on using a term like that and ignore the context, then that says a lot about you.

Truth is that I'm the only one in this discussion who is realistic enough to admit that the fans can't know everything and I'm not throwing around so-called facts I can't know about. I'm not that arrogant, at least I'm modest. But yeah, you wouldn't get that because you can't look past the term fanboy. Good luck with that.

Utter gibberish and drivel

 

 

[double talkin jive mfkr]

17 minutes ago, magnumpi said:

OK so this Madd Dogg person is trolling this thread and ruining another discussuon.

He must be a paid shill.

Is therectil a way to block a poster so you don't read their threads?  Otherwise the best thing to do is completely ignore the shill.

DEFO - i probably found out a bunch all at the same time, hell they even managed to shut down the other thread 

[Rovim]

3 hours ago, double talkin jive mfkr said:

Never played it live right? 

 

Edited March 13, 2017 by Rovim

[double talkin jive mfkr]

5 minutes ago, Rovim said:

 

this was pure gold to listen to this...never have

and izzy and axl singing in tandem to be exact 

flawless this one 

[double talkin jive mfkr]

1 minute ago, Rovim said:

Izzy's voice sounds so great with Axl's. So great.

i agree, 14 years and dust n bones may be the best examples of this dynamic and on top of it some of the most underrated best gnr tunes 

[Rovim]

8 minutes ago, double talkin jive mfkr said:

i agree, 14 years and dust n bones may be the best examples of this dynamic and on top of it some of the most underrated best gnr tunes 

Izzy's voice is just perfect with Axl's, live and in the studio. Sad Gn'R moment. Slash and Izzy guitar interplay, Axl and Izzy singing together, Duff and Adler the rhythm section. I guess all that perfect musical interaction within the old band was some of the secret sauce, but Sorum was also good and brought his own thing to the sound.

Plus Izzy tunes really grounded the albums for me. Izzy was never overrated, that's a myth. Tunes, guitar playing, lyrics, vocals.

Edited March 13, 2017 by Rovim

[double talkin jive mfkr]

Just now, Rovim said:

Izzy's voice is just perfect with Axl's, live and in the studio. Sad Gn'R moment.

the saddest moment caught on camera and or tape is the outro of patience with izzy singing along with duff and axl - it feels like a bit of a farewell of their family like bond 

[wasted]

One thing though, Izzy is impervious to technology or modern rock. Slash might do something like that on VR but has Izzy ever done a CD cover or some rap collab? 

[wasted]

4 hours ago, double talkin jive mfkr said:

Bad apples i was surprised to learn of izzy's involvement here, it seems like definetly one of the most funkiest songs written by gnr maybe other than rocket queen 

I'm not sure if axl could handle that one now but wouldn't that be something. I am big fan of that tune, I wonder what they think of it now over the years. Never played it live right? 

It does seem like it was recorded in the oxygen tent. I think Slash said in his book he was involved in Bad Apples. They might have ramped up a Izzy demo. 

[wasted]

4 hours ago, double talkin jive mfkr said:

Bad apples i was surprised to learn of izzy's involvement here, it seems like definetly one of the most funkiest songs written by gnr maybe other than rocket queen 

I'm not sure if axl could handle that one now but wouldn't that be something. I am big fan of that tune, I wonder what they think of it now over the years. Never played it live right? 

It does seem like it was recorded in the oxygen tent. I think Slash said in his book he was involved in Bad Apples. They might have ramped up a Izzy demo. 

[Izzy_Toronto]

The thing about Izzy's departure from the band in 1991 was that Axl tried to make him sign a contract to take less royalties due to him not contributing to the band's business or his lack of effort during the tour. But I see Izzy's contributions to the song writing as a huge contribution and big factor to Guns N Roses as a whole. Nothing against Duff but what did he contribute to Guns? Apparently during the Appetite album he wrote It's So Easy and Rocket Queen was a co-write also from interviews he has stated that he taught Steven how and what to drum on the songs but on the Illusion albums? Just because Duff runs around on stage and dud some interviews he would deserve more than Izzy? I think not. I really do blame Axl for the break up of GNR and I truly believe he regretted his behavior with regards to dealing with Izzy during the Illusion tour. Slash has said in an interview before that when GNR started writing for a new album after the Illusion tour that it wasn't the same. It was Axl against Duff and Slash. He said that Izzy was the glue and go between that kept them together. I believe theyou were all fans of Izzy songs and that's why there are so many of his songs on the Illusion albums. Also for the Appetite and Lies albums they say are all co-writers but from past interviews I concluded that:

Mr Brownstone, Think About You, Used to Love Her and Patience (Axl wrote the solo vocal over the chorus at the end of the song) are Izzy songs. 

Move To The City, Night Train, Out Ta Get Me, Paradise City, My Michelle, Sweet Child O Mine, You're Crazy, Anything Goes are all Izzy co-writes. 

From all the solo records or band albums Duff and Slash made, as well as Chinese Democracy those records can't even compare to the Ju Ju Hounds record. That album would have been the core of a new Guns album but Axl fucked up and we never got to see it happen. 

Sorry for the vent. I'm just pissed that Izzy isn't not part of the reunion. It's not fair. He should be paid equally as Slash and Duff. Obviously there are legalities in regards of Axl owning the band name and Slash and Duff still own a portion of the Guns brand but this is a tour and Izzy should expect to be paid fairly. I'll see them in Buffalo this year but I'll have my Where's Izzy t-shirt in the pit.

[MADDOGJONES]

1 hour ago, Izzy_Toronto said:

Mr Brownstone, Think About You, Used to Love Her and Patience (Axl wrote the solo vocal over the chorus at the end of the song) are Izzy songs.

How are these "Izzy Songs"? All of these except for Used to Love Her are co-writes. Mr Brownstone was written by Izzy and Slash. Think About You was written by Izzy and Slash. Used to Love Her was written by Izzy. Patience was written by Axl and Izzy.

You clearly know there is a difference between "Izzy Songs" and co-writes as you included his co-writes further down in your post. Problem is, all but one of the songs you posted is an "Izzy song", by your definition and by mine (a song he has solo writing credit for), so what's going on?

Duff has co-writing credits on Appetite for Night Train, It's So Easy, Paradise City and Rocket Queen, so at least give the guy his due instead of fudging the data. I'm not disagreeing with you that Izzy wrote more than Duff, by the way, so don't go there. I'm just correcting your inaccuracies, so fans aren't mislead.

MDJ

Edited March 13, 2017 by MADDOGJONES

[Izzy_Toronto]

Maddog there is an interview on youtube where Axl talks about the songwriting process on Patience and he had said that Izzy wrote it and all Axl wrote was the ending. There was never anyou article or credit to Slash's on Think About You. Izzy wrote it about Alex Van Halen's ex wife who Izzy had dated. Mr Brownstone was a song Izzy wrote which Axl found the lyrics in a room where Izzy and Steven shared. Slash has said he helped write Brownstone but most probable he helped Izzy elaborate on some of the guitar. Slash had said before that he co-wrote Double Talkin Jive but obviously no credit on the album so most likely an exaggeration on his part. I'm just saying that a Stradlin/Rose duo was as important as a Jagger/Richards or a Lennon/McCartney.  

[MADDOGJONES]

38 minutes ago, Izzy_Toronto said:

Maddog there is an interview on youtube where Axl talks about the songwriting process on Patience and he had said that Izzy wrote it and all Axl wrote was the ending. There was never anyou article or credit to Slash's on Think About You. Izzy wrote it about Alex Van Halen's ex wife who Izzy had dated. Mr Brownstone was a song Izzy wrote which Axl found the lyrics in a room where Izzy and Steven shared. Slash has said he helped write Brownstone but most probable he helped Izzy elaborate on some of the guitar. Slash had said before that he co-wrote Double Talkin Jive but obviously no credit on the album so most likely an exaggeration on his part. I'm just saying that a Stradlin/Rose duo was as important as a Jagger/Richards or a Lennon/McCartney.  

I'm going by the ASCAP song credits which detail who has writing credits on each song, I'm not interested in anecdotal evidence such as "he helped write Brownstone but most probable he helped Izzy elaborate on some of the guitar", if that's how you're deciding who's song is who's, you need to go through all of the songs and work out who had the biggest hand in each song or whatever by combing through interviews from the last 30 years and let us know which song was written "mostly" by which member, but the band have already done that work for you. The song credits are published and freely available for you to check out.

That stuff of course has value and it's fun for us to see how songs came together or whatever, but I don't see how it's more useful than reading the actual song credits in this example.

I agree with you, the Stradlin/Rose duo was important and a great songwriting duo, but lets at least give credit where credit is due. You overstated Izzy's song credits and understated Duff's in your post, which shows a real bias and disregard for the facts of the matter.

Edited March 13, 2017 by MADDOGJONES

[WhenYou'reTalkinToYourself]

5 minutes ago, Izzy_Toronto said:

Maddog there is an interview on youtube where Axl talks about the songwriting process on Patience and he had said that Izzy wrote it and all Axl wrote was the ending. There was never anyou article or credit to Slash's on Think About You. Izzy wrote it about Alex Van Halen's ex wife who Izzy had dated. Mr Brownstone was a song Izzy wrote which Axl found the lyrics in a room where Izzy and Steven shared. Slash has said he helped write Brownstone but most probable he helped Izzy elaborate on some of the guitar. Slash had said before that he co-wrote Double Talkin Jive but obviously no credit on the album so most likely an exaggeration on his part. I'm just saying that a Stradlin/Rose duo was as important as a Jagger/Richards or a Lennon/McCartney.  

Possibly, the ending of Patience was written by Duff.

- Duff: "Izzy wrote the verse [humming the verse with help from Steven] and I wrote the part at the end, "A little patience, yeaaaaah" Okay, so that came together like that and we had it."

- Axl: "Izzy basically wrote most of the words except for the ending part, and then Slash and Duff got in on it, rearranging and rewriting parts of it, music parts, guitar parts..."

But there is also this contradictory quote from Duff:

- Duff: " Axl came up with a great lyric, seemingly out of nowhere, that of course became the story and melody of that song. The whistle part at the beginning--a ballsy move by Axl--while seeming odd to some of our fans and critics alike when the record Lies was released, became a part of pop culture. The song just wouldn't be the song without it, right? "

and also:

- Slash: "Izzy and Axl had such great chemistry because Axl knew how to transform one of Izzy's simple structures into a perfect, well-rounded, melodically and lyrically rich song. A great example is 'Patience': Axl really elevated that song of Izzy's into something else entirely."

[MADDOGJONES]

2 hours ago, Izzy_Toronto said:

The thing about Izzy's departure from the band in 1991 was that Axl tried to make him sign a contract to take less royalties due to him not contributing to the band's business or his lack of effort during the tour. But I see Izzy's contributions to the song writing as a huge contribution and big factor to Guns N Roses as a whole. Nothing against Duff but what did he contribute to Guns? Apparently during the Appetite album he wrote It's So Easy and Rocket Queen was a co-write also from interviews he has stated that he taught Steven how and what to drum on the songs but on the Illusion albums? Just because Duff runs around on stage and dud some interviews he would deserve more than Izzy? I think not. I really do blame Axl for the break up of GNR and I truly believe he regretted his behavior with regards to dealing with Izzy during the Illusion tour. Slash has said in an interview before that when GNR started writing for a new album after the Illusion tour that it wasn't the same. It was Axl against Duff and Slash. He said that Izzy was the glue and go between that kept them together. I believe theyou were all fans of Izzy songs and that's why there are so many of his songs on the Illusion albums. Also for the Appetite and Lies albums they say are all co-writers but from past interviews I concluded that:

Sorry for the vent. I'm just pissed that Izzy isn't not part of the reunion. It's not fair. He should be paid equally as Slash and Duff. Obviously there are legalities in regards of Axl owning the band name and Slash and Duff still own a portion of the Guns brand but this is a tour and Izzy should expect to be paid fairly.

Let’s play your idea out a little for fun… If you’re stating that Izzy’s fee for touring should be based off the amount of songwriting credits he has in GN’R (which your post alludes to, as does your comparison to duff) then logically you have to end up quantifying something, so we have to look at the numbers and apply that rule to everyone.

When we do we see that Axl has the most songwriting credits in GNR (not including GN’R credits since the old band broke up), Slash the second, Izzy third and Duff fourth (Steven and Matt have none). So playing this through, he still shouldn’t be getting as much as Slash or Axl, but in this hypothetical situation (based off song credits only) he should be getting more than duff. This of course is not how you work out touring revenue, it’s how you work out songwriting revenue, but in this case that's how the order would go.

This might be a good start for how you work out who gets what in a partnership along with other things such as contribution to business matters etc, which is pretty much how they did work it out back in the day. Axl had the biggest stake, then Slash, then Izzy and then Duff. Izzy sold his shares and the percentages were changed, but they still reflect the order as before only sans Izzy.

[EvanG]

5 hours ago, magnumpi said:

Utter gibberish and drivel

 

 

Hahaha... point proven!

[EvanG]

2 hours ago, MADDOGJONES said:

How are these "Izzy Songs"? All of these except for Used to Love Her are co-writes. Mr Brownstone was written by Izzy and Slash. Think About You was written by Izzy and Slash. Used to Love Her was written by Izzy. Patience was written by Axl and Izzy.

You clearly know there is a difference between "Izzy Songs" and co-writes as you included his co-writes further down in your post. Problem is, all but one of the songs you posted is an "Izzy song", by your definition and by mine (a song he has solo writing credit for), so what's going on?

Duff has co-writing credits on Appetite for Night Train, It's So Easy, Paradise City and Rocket Queen, so at least give the guy his due instead of fudging the data. I'm not disagreeing with you that Izzy wrote more than Duff, by the way, so don't go there. I'm just correcting your inaccuracies, so fans aren't mislead.

MDJ

Dude, I've been having this discussion on here for three pages now. There's no point to it. They are making up their own facts and when you try to explain them that it doesn't make sense, they get irritated and start insulting. It's best to ignore these kids altogether because they just don't get it.

[maynard]

Izzy - great in GNR, awful as a solo artist.

[Darkenchantress]

21 minutes ago, maynard said:

Izzy - great in GNR, awful as a solo artist.

Really? You don't like any of them? I like pretty much everything cause I really always liked his style but he's got a couple of damn good albums like the Jujus or 117 º. But well, is a matter of taste I guess.

[Izzy_Toronto]

1 hour ago, MADDOGJONES said:

Let’s play your idea out a little for fun… If you’re stating that Izzy’s fee for touring should be based off the amount of songwriting credits he has in GN’R (which your post alludes to, as does your comparison to duff) then logically you have to end up quantifying something, so we have to look at the numbers and apply that rule to everyone.

When we do we see that Axl has the most songwriting credits in GNR (not including GN’R credits since the old band broke up), Slash the second, Izzy third and Duff fourth (Steven and Matt have none). So playing this through, he still shouldn’t be getting as much as Slash or Axl, but in this hypothetical situation (based off song credits only) he should be getting more than duff. This of course is not how you work out touring revenue, it’s how you work out songwriting revenue, but in this case that's how the order would go.

This might be a good start for how you work out who gets what in a partnership along with other things such as contribution to business matters etc, which is pretty much how they did work it out back in the day. Axl had the biggest stake, then Slash, then Izzy and then Duff. Izzy sold his shares and the percentages were changed, but they still reflect the order as before only sans Izzy.

From what I remember about the Appetite and Lies royalties went was that Axl got 25 Izzy Slash and Duff got 20 and Steven got 15. After Steven got fired who knows how it got split up. Also when Izzy left the band he sold his shares of the band to the rest of them (I doubt this has anything to do with royalties cause I'm sure they're still getting paid). Maybe this band ownership has something to do with Izzy not getting a fair share. Who knows? I can't blame the guy for not agreeing to a 5 figure payout per show. I would love to see Izzy do a tour of his solo work and see him play some GNR songs like he had initially intended them to be played  (example the early demo of Bad Obsession). We can only hope

[maynard]

8 minutes ago, Darkenchantress said:

Really? You don't like any of them? I like pretty much everything cause I really always liked his style but he's got a couple of damn good albums like the Jujus or 117 º. But well, is a matter of taste I guess.

Really.

I've tried, trust me. But I can't stand the generic rock/Stones rip-off vibe.

[Darkenchantress]

5 minutes ago, maynard said:

Really.

I've tried, trust me. But I can't stand the generic rock/Stones rip-off vibe.

Ah but not everything Izzy sounds like the Stones, not a fan of Izzy's reggae vibes either?  j/k. I love him but it will never not be funny. It's, ok, to each his own. I know Izzy's style can be considered a bit simple especially if you compare it with most GnR songs.