http://ultimateclassicrock.com/underrated-rock-albums/ -Chinese Democracy in The list

[Caught_in_a_Coma]

10 hours ago, GNR 1991 said:

The amazing thing about CD to me is it's been almost 10 years since release and I'm STILL hearing new things that I've never noticed before (mostly because they've been deeply buried in the mix).

 

Take Catcher for example: This is isolated piano, synth and backing vocals. Listen at 1:17, you'll hear Axl doing a very Beatles-esque vocal that I've never noticed on the album before. Has anyone ever noticed this? (This might be better served as a separate topic)

 

I love Catcher, thanks for sharing this

[AlexC]

2 hours ago, Silent Jay said:

Great album, masterful guitarwork, a few masterpieces (Twat, Prostitute, Catcher) but it doesn't matter since Scraped, Riad and Shackler stink so bad. It totally ruined the full experience.

I used to hate Riad and Scraped but where they are actually placed on the album is necessary. Like, if you're listening from start to finish they're a much needed uplift by that point in the record. Otherwise you'd go If the World, TWaT, Catcher and then straight to Sorry. While those songs are great it would be depressing and almost like listening to a durge. Especially on the first listen.

But on their own they are mediocre.

Edited March 13, 2017 by AlexC

[bucketfoot]

I think a lot of people would have simply scratched their heads when they finally heard it. It's certainly a unique record, layers upon layers of sound, and I agree that you keep hearing new things with each listen, it's like a labyrinth. It was never gonna sell massive amounts once the curiosity factor faded, no obvious singles and I think a lot of casual fans would've found it too far removed from the old guns style, too progressive. I love it personally but the hype around it and length of time it took to make was always going to be too much for it to live up to.

[3coloursbeige]

I really like it, but I think it suffers mostly because it's both The Axl Rose Project...and a Guns n' Roses album.  I think I would have preferred it if was simply Axl doing his thing without feeling the need to put some rock n roll in...or the other way around.  To me it falls slightly awkwardly between the two.  And the production is stifling.  I love If The World and There Was A Time...and Buckethead's silky solos...

[thunderram]

I'm an old school, original lineup guy who was lukewarm on CD for a long time, but have really grown to love it over the past couple years. I went from 4 songs that I liked to pretty much all but 1 or 2 now. And even those have parts that I enjoy.

[wasted]

9 hours ago, 3coloursbeige said:

I really like it, but I think it suffers mostly because it's both The Axl Rose Project...and a Guns n' Roses album.  I think I would have preferred it if was simply Axl doing his thing without feeling the need to put some rock n roll in...or the other way around.  To me it falls slightly awkwardly between the two.  And the production is stifling.  I love If The World and There Was A Time...and Buckethead's silky solos...

Axl didn't actually write that much of it. 

Axl wrote an early riff on TWAT, piano on Catcher, horns on Madagascar, This I Love, piano on Prostitute. 

 

I think Dizzy wrote the piano on SOD? 

If the World is Pitman. 

IRS is Tobias. 

Bucket did Shacklers and Scraped. Was involved in Sorry. 

Tommy did Riad. 

Freese (or Slash) wrote the riff to Chi dem. 

I guess Axl was overseeing the songs, making suggestions or something. 

But in the end it seems like he only really wrote 

This I Love

Catcher in the Rye

Madagascar

Prostitute

 

I don't know though. 

 

[The Holographic Universe]

1 hour ago, thunderram said:

I'm an old school, original lineup guy who was lukewarm on CD for a long time, but have really grown to love it over the past couple years. I went from 4 songs that I liked to pretty much all but 1 or 2 now. And even those have parts that I enjoy.

Your conversion to this album mirrors mine exactly. I'm assuming your two songs are Rhiad and Scraped? Or Rhiad and Prostitute? But, surely Rhiad. It's the only GNR song I feel zero connection to.

[DTV88]

8 hours ago, The Holographic Universe said:

Your conversion to this album mirrors mine exactly. I'm assuming your two songs are Rhiad and Scraped? Or Rhiad and Prostitute? But, surely Rhiad. It's the only GNR song I feel zero connection to.

Rhiad was just a big fat stinkin' turd of a song until I discovered the earlier version. It could have been a fairly decent album song in its original form. Now when I listen to CD, I find myself comparing the album version to the original...every time I listen to it.

[Lies They Tell]

11 hours ago, wasted said:

Axl didn't actually write that much of it. 

Axl wrote an early riff on TWAT, piano on Catcher, horns on Madagascar, This I Love, piano on Prostitute. 

 

I think Dizzy wrote the piano on SOD? 

If the World is Pitman. 

IRS is Tobias. 

Bucket did Shacklers and Scraped. Was involved in Sorry. 

Tommy did Riad. 

Freese (or Slash) wrote the riff to Chi dem. 

I guess Axl was overseeing the songs, making suggestions or something. 

But in the end it seems like he only really wrote 

This I Love

Catcher in the Rye

Madagascar

Prostitute

 

I don't know though. 

 

I think Axl wrote a hell of a lot of CD. What you call overseeing, is in my opinion writing of the song. For example Axl's probably often the one who's responsible for the song structures. A riff or a guitar solo is not really much without a good song structure around it. And Axl's probably often the one who decides what part needs a guitar solo and how long the solo's gonna be etc...

He's probably often the one who chooses what guitar solo is going to be used in the final song. These guys play all kinds of different solos, and then Axl chooses which solo is going to be used. Or maybe the whole band decides on it. I don't know, but at least Axl's heavily involved in all of it.

Sometimes he even uses parts of different guitar solos and mixes them together, like he did with the Brian May solo. Can you even call it a Brian May solo, when Brian May didn't even recognize playing it? It's more like Axl's guitar solo based on different stuff that Brian May played or something.

Well every song is different of course. Sometimes the songs are probably almost complete when they're handed to Axl and he just writes the lyrics to it. But more often than not, Axl's probably heavily involved with the song structures, especially on CD.

[Słash]

On 3/13/2017 at 4:44 PM, RussTCB said:

Time for me to make another statement that will piss so many people off lol:

Chinese Democracy is my favorite Guns N' Roses album. I think it's incredibly under-rated for a variety of reasons, but I'm not mad at anyone outside of Axl over it. People shouldn't have to jump hurdles to check out your art. I'm not mad at anyone who doesn't like the album but I'm also not mad at anyone who didn't even bother. 

You are really a rebel man

CD is your fav "GNR" Album

You prefer Robin Finck over Slash and Frank is your fav. Drummer lol 

I do like songs from CD, I can relate to them apart from Riad, Scraped and ITW, of course some people can and some people cannot. The instrumentals of the songs are pretty good. But yeah it is way over produced, the demo's sounded so much better. 

Edited March 14, 2017 by Słash

[auad]

Just now, Lies They Tell said:

I think Axl wrote a hell of a lot of CD. What you call overseeing, is in my opinion writing of the song. For example Axl's probably often the one who's responsible for the song structures. A riff or a guitar solo is not really much without a good song structure around it. And Axl's probably often the one who decides what part needs a guitar solo and how long the solo's gonna be etc...

He's probably often the one who chooses what guitar solo is going to be used in the final song. These guys play all kinds of different solos, and then Axl chooses which solo is going to be used. Or maybe the whole band decides on it. I don't know, but at least Axl's heavily involved in all of it.

Sometimes he even uses parts of different guitar solos and mixes them together, like he did with the Brian May solo. Can you even call it a Brian May solo, when Brian May didn't even recognize playing it? It's more like Axl's guitar solo based on different stuff that Brian May played or something.

Well every song is different of course. Sometimes the songs are probably almost complete when they're handed to Axl and he just writes the lyrics to it. But more often than not, Axl's probably heavily involved with the song structures, especially on CD.

"probably"

The right word to everything related to GNR

[The Holographic Universe]

17 minutes ago, Słash said:

You are really a rebel man

CD is your fav "GNR" Album

You prefer Robin Finck over Slash and Frank is your fav. Drummer lol 

I do like songs from CD, I can relate to them apart from Riad, Scraped and ITW, of course some people can and some people cannot. The instrumentals of the songs are pretty good. But yeah it is way over produced, the demo's sounded so much better. 

I cannot recall the difference between the demos and what was on the album. Could you or someone here post videos comparing the two. Because my recollection is that there wasn't much of a difference at all.

[Słash]

13 minutes ago, The Holographic Universe said:

I cannot recall the difference between the demos and what was on the album. Could you or someone here post videos comparing the two. Because my recollection is that there wasn't much of a difference at all.

The demo's had the raw feeling it in 

[Słash]

16 minutes ago, The Holographic Universe said:

I cannot recall the difference between the demos and what was on the album. Could you or someone here post videos comparing the two. Because my recollection is that there wasn't much of a difference at all.

 

 

[BreakDown2014]

Gotta love this thread. CD is my favourite album ever recorded by any band, and I really hope we get to listen to the rest of the songs. While songwriting and performances are both excellent, the production is unique in a way that only Axl Rose could achieve

[RussTCB]

41 minutes ago, Słash said:

You are really a rebel man

CD is your fav "GNR" Album

You prefer Robin Finck over Slash and Frank is your fav. Drummer lol 

I do like songs from CD, I can relate to them apart from Riad, Scraped and ITW, of course some people can and some people cannot. The instrumentals of the songs are pretty good. But yeah it is way over produced, the demo's sounded so much better. 

My thing is: I'm not trying to be a rebel. Not that you're accusing me of such a thing, but others have in the past. I don't say any of these things to be a rebel or ironic and most certainly not to troll. These are truly my preferences.

Also............LOL at "GNR" album 

[janrichmond]

@RussTCBhave you seen a doctor about your (CD)affliction? There's gotta be something you can do ? 

[WhazUp]

51 minutes ago, The Holographic Universe said:

I cannot recall the difference between the demos and what was on the album. Could you or someone here post videos comparing the two. Because my recollection is that there wasn't much of a difference at all.

IRS in my opinion has the most drastic change from the old school demo and what we ended up getting in the late 2000's

 

It sounds more organic - I can only assume the drums and whatnot are all the first initial drum recordings made by Josh Freese, it flows a bit better with everything

[bucketfoot]

25 minutes ago, WhazUp said:

IRS in my opinion has the most drastic change from the old school demo and what we ended up getting in the late 2000's

 

It sounds more organic - I can only assume the drums and whatnot are all the first initial drum recordings made by Josh Freese, it flows a bit better with everything

This version is so much better than the one on the album (which I still love), that funk guitar is amazing and I can't understand why they took it out.

[RussTCB]

1 hour ago, janrichmond said:

@RussTCBhave you seen a doctor about your (CD)affliction? There's gotta be something you can do ? 

I'm reasonably sure they can't do anything for one's personal tastes. 

[BorderlineCrazy]

25 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

I'm reasonably sure they can't do anything for one's personal tastes. 

Go ask Alan Turing 

[wasted]

5 hours ago, Lies They Tell said:

I think Axl wrote a hell of a lot of CD. What you call overseeing, is in my opinion writing of the song. For example Axl's probably often the one who's responsible for the song structures. A riff or a guitar solo is not really much without a good song structure around it. And Axl's probably often the one who decides what part needs a guitar solo and how long the solo's gonna be etc...

He's probably often the one who chooses what guitar solo is going to be used in the final song. These guys play all kinds of different solos, and then Axl chooses which solo is going to be used. Or maybe the whole band decides on it. I don't know, but at least Axl's heavily involved in all of it.

Sometimes he even uses parts of different guitar solos and mixes them together, like he did with the Brian May solo. Can you even call it a Brian May solo, when Brian May didn't even recognize playing it? It's more like Axl's guitar solo based on different stuff that Brian May played or something.

Well every song is different of course. Sometimes the songs are probably almost complete when they're handed to Axl and he just writes the lyrics to it. But more often than not, Axl's probably heavily involved with the song structures, especially on CD.

Totally, he puts it together, selects, edits. Also the vocal melody must shape the song. But on CD it was build the track first. Just the whole process of CD with re-recording, adding parts, using different parts. 

But in terms of writing parts like the Freese riff on Chi dem, the riff of Better by Finck, Piano on SOD is Dizzy, Shackler's riff is Bucket. He doesnt write all the parts, that's why others have credits. Also depends what you think is important. Sometimes I think lyrics and melodies are much more important. In a way GNR's changing line ups and sounds suggests that. Axl's vocal melodies are the songs and Axl is the constant across the records. I hear a lot of similar stuff going on with CD as AFD or UYI. But it's missing Izzy's lyrics and melodies. For me some of the stuff Slash did was mimicked or there was a good alternative to it, like solo wise the CD solos are great. There's not enough chunky riffing though, it's missing Slash's guitar sound and aesethetic but song wise I feel it's missing the Izzy pov. 

Someone was saying it would be better if it was just Axl's stuff. I was thinking he'd only have 4-5 tracks to really play with. He needs writers to work with. To make it a band thing. To give the richness. In my opinion.

But I get what you're saying Axl makes it his own. He can play guitar too. He has to be into it and he works on it. 

[Modano09]

I think there were a lot of people who just weren't going to give CD a chance because they didn't like Axl. Axl's reputation wasn't exactly great prior to GNR breaking up and he was seen as the reason they did. Then he was seen as thinking he could just continue on without everyone else. Then he spent over a decade working on an album that was going to come out every other year since 2000. 

I think Axl's reputation/perception is what hurt it the most. Call the GNR break up mutual and call CD a solo album and it's probably better received. At worst it's no worse than Slash's solo stuff.

[-W.A.R-]

It's really hard to take seriously as a GNR album but im more warm toward it than i was before i joined this forum.

[RONIN]

You know, I listened to this album a few days back and I disagree. I don't think it's underrated or overrated - it is what it is.

Like Bob Ezrin told Axl back in 2001, the songs sound like they've been painted over one too many times. Whatever these songs once were, they've totally lost their spirit with the layers upon layers added over the years. The standout cuts for me are Sorry and If The World. TWAT and Prostitute are also highlights. Catcher in the Rye could have been but the studio version is ruined by Bumblefoot's tasteless playing. And that's the problem -- nearly every song made me think -- "that's cool...oh but that sucks...this would sound so much better with Slash". 

It's impossible to even view these objectively because the demos for many of these songs sound better than the final versions. That seems to be the general agreement of the cavalcade of producers/engineers that this project has had.

There is a potentially great, perhaps even classic, record in here...worthy of illusions. But they would need to go back to the raw demos and have Duff/Slash arrange them to get the best out of these songs. As it stands right now, CD is a strong, albeit highly flawed album that is hopelessly overproduced.