Jump to content

Was Axl a Poser during UYI Era?


Recommended Posts

Was there any truth to James Hetfield's nickname for the redhead : Axl "Pose"?

I don't want this thread to derail so let me be more specific -- for anyone that was around during the UYI era, was Axl perceived as trying to be something he was not? I.e. Lacking authenticity/integrity?

An interesting quote from Marilyn Manson and his keyboardist re: the Charles Manson debacle:

What catapulted him to his current notoriety? Axl Rose?

Gacy - Every week for the last five years you can see Manson on the cover of Weekly World News or The Star. You can't help but see an article about him or his followers. His name is always in some weekly trash journal, or on Current Affair, or Inside Edition, or Hard Copy.

Manson - I went out to LA to talk to Trent about starting the record and we were backstage at a concert hanging out with Axl Rose. He was telling me about The Spaghetti Incident record and hadn't mentioned anything about Manson. I think it's a case of someone with no respect anymore trying to get some notoriety from the underground crowd. I think it was a shallow thing. It was even more shallow that he didn't back himself up on it. He cried to the press like a pussy. It was a publicity stunt that totally backfired.

Gacy - It's one thing to be an asshole or racist, it's another to be a hypocrite. You really like it and then as soon as you're confronted on it, you sit there and cop out because you're afraid of the heat you'll catch. People gave him more shit for Manson than all the stuff he'd said about hooray for tolerance!s and immigrants.

http://www.mansonwiki.com/wiki/Interview:Seconds_Magazine_Interviews_Marilyn_Manson_%26_Madonna_Wayne_Gacy

 

So according to Manson, Axl was perceived as having zero respect from his peers in 1993 and appeared to have little if any street cred.

 

Manson also said this about One in a Million:

"It’s interesting to me that Axl Rose would write a song like that and then back down in the press and not be able to defend his statement," he says. "If you’re going to have the balls to make that kind of statement, then you should be able to back it up. So I figure I’ll say it and then show him how it’s done properly. These people really don’t know how to do anything right!" Manson huffs. "I have to take up all their slack for them. I’m not doing it because I agree with their statements, but because someone needs to do it properly."

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/news/shownews.php?newsid=66

Before people start trashing Manson, he's a big fan of Guns and AFD is one of his influences. He saw them on the Appetite tour and went to one of the '02 shows. It looks like he's one of the many fans who jumped ship with the release of the UYI albums.

Thoughts?

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think Axl for the most part is someone who truly does not give a fuck and does his own thing (hiring tracey and roberta, his FU to fans/critics who wanted another Appetite album by giving them a double album, etc)

But on the other hand, he appears to be a very confused person throughout the UYI era and the mid to late 90's. Almost like the mixed reaction to UYI and the criticism from the press and Grunge/Alternative camp were making him doubt himself. Hence....Axl "Pose". Then there's the other stuff like the ridiculous cigarette holder he always carried around, his Axl converse shoes, etc -- just seemed like he was trying too hard. His behavior reminds me of Stallone in the early 90's when he would wear glasses and speak pompously in his interviews, usually dropping some fancy vocabulary words or talking about his art collection. He was trying to change the perception through the media that he was simply a musclebound moron - but wearing glasses and putting on an act of sophistication only made him look more insecure and silly. That's how Axl's UYI schtick seems to me in hindsight.

"There was a point there where Axl goes: 'I'm gonna do a solo record, and I'm gonna get Trent Reznor and Dave Navarro, and [Dave Grohl,] the drummer from Nirvana...' and so on. And it's like, he doesn't even know half of these people. He's just pulling them out of the sky." (Slash, Metal Hammer, 11/95)

"Trent Reznor from NIN is one [guy I want to work with], and Dave Navarro from Jane's Addiction is another... I've talked to Trent about working with me on an industrial synth project, at least on one song, and I definitely want to work with Dave on something. I've always been curious what he would sound like working with Slash on something."  (Axl, Hit Parader, 1993)

"And I was like, 'Cool! Do your thing. That way you'll get it out of your system, and when you get back we'll just be Guns N' Roses.'" (Slash, Metal Hammer, 11/95)

 

"Then [Axl] decided his solo-project he could do with Guns, which I was like, after doing all those videos and this and that and the other, I was like: "No". [laughs] No, I don't wanna get involved in any kind of Stephanie Seymour ballads or any of that shit." (Slash, Canadian Radio, 04/20/95)

"Aftonbladet: You, Duff McKagan, Gilby Clarke... The most people in the band have made records outside Guns. Isn't Axl going to do a solo-record soon?
Slash: Axl thinks that Guns is his solo-project." (Slash, Aftonbladet, 04/02/95)

""Everybody used to go, "What's gonna happen when Guns is no longer.. when a new fad comes along?" or whatever. And I'd be, "I don't give a fuck". And I watched it happen, and it didn't matter to me. With Axl it mattered a hell of a lot. Next thing you know, he wants to be Pearl Jam, right? Why? I hate Pearl Jam anyway, so what's the point? And it's great to watch Pearl Jam going through what they're going through, cos I'm going, "See Axl?"-- Slash, November 1995.

"My last conversation with [Axl] was when he called me and was trying to explain what he wanted to do. And, basically, it was: I want to change the sound of the band. You know, I want to go more into a current direction. You know, I want to use, you know, more industrial type things. You know, he was really into bands like Jane's Addiction, Pearl Jam and Nine Inch Nails. And I just kinda laughed and said: You know, look - I want to play guitar in a loud version of The Rolling Stones, you know?" (Gilby, Spin, 07/99)

Edited by RONIN
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Eh I think the people that didn't know Axl thought it was an act, but the people that got close with him knew better. He was just lost in his mind. 

When it came to Guns Axl wanted them to be the best, or at the top of their game. I think he felt that to survive the changing music landscape he needed to reinvent the sound every record and by the time the 4th record was coming together there was no clear sound that was popular and he seemed to just be jumping around to different influences trying to create something unique but that could last in the current music climate. 

Obviously Axl's derailment of what he wanted versus how he wanted to do it got in the way and eventually everything fell apart. 

Was he a poser? I wouldn't think so

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Frankly,  I'd hey the opinions of hacks like Manson influence him then he was foolish.

Imo hetfield is a mean spirited Douce so his outlook his irrelevant to me.

And in a way reading this i feel bad for Axl.  Gnr was one of those bands that could have done whatever they wanted outside of trends. 

 

Edited by magnumpi
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

44 minutes ago, RONIN said:

I think Axl for the most part is someone who truly does not give a fuck and does his own thing (hiring tracey and roberta, his FU to fans/critics who wanted another Appetite album by giving them a double album, etc)

But on the other hand, he appears to be a very confused person throughout the UYI era and the mid to late 90's. Almost like the mixed reaction to UYI and the criticism from the press and Grunge/Alternative camp were making him doubt himself. Hence....Axl "Pose". Then there's the other stuff like the ridiculous cigarette holder he always carried around, his Axl converse shoes, etc -- just seemed like he was trying too hard. His behavior reminds me of Stallone in the early 90's when he would wear glasses and speak pompously in his interviews, usually dropping some fancy vocabulary words or talking about his art collection. He was trying to change the perception through the media that he was simply a musclebound moron - but wearing glasses and putting on an act of sophistication only made him look more insecure and silly. That's how Axl's UYI schtick seems to me in hindsight.

"There was a point there where Axl goes: 'I'm gonna do a solo record, and I'm gonna get Trent Reznor and Dave Navarro, and [Dave Grohl,] the drummer from Nirvana...' and so on. And it's like, he doesn't even know half of these people. He's just pulling them out of the sky." (Slash, Metal Hammer, 11/95)

"Trent Reznor from NIN is one [guy I want to work with], and Dave Navarro from Jane's Addiction is another... I've talked to Trent about working with me on an industrial synth project, at least on one song, and I definitely want to work with Dave on something. I've always been curious what he would sound like working with Slash on something."  (Axl, Hit Parader, 1993)

"And I was like, 'Cool! Do your thing. That way you'll get it out of your system, and when you get back we'll just be Guns N' Roses.'" (Slash, Metal Hammer, 11/95)

 

"Then [Axl] decided his solo-project he could do with Guns, which I was like, after doing all those videos and this and that and the other, I was like: "No". [laughs] No, I don't wanna get involved in any kind of Stephanie Seymour ballads or any of that shit." (Slash, Canadian Radio, 04/20/95)

"Aftonbladet: You, Duff McKagan, Gilby Clarke... The most people in the band have made records outside Guns. Isn't Axl going to do a solo-record soon?
Slash: Axl thinks that Guns is his solo-project." (Slash, Aftonbladet, 04/02/95)

""Everybody used to go, "What's gonna happen when Guns is no longer.. when a new fad comes along?" or whatever. And I'd be, "I don't give a fuck". And I watched it happen, and it didn't matter to me. With Axl it mattered a hell of a lot. Next thing you know, he wants to be Pearl Jam, right? Why? I hate Pearl Jam anyway, so what's the point? And it's great to watch Pearl Jam going through what they're going through, cos I'm going, "See Axl?"-- Slash, November 1995.

"My last conversation with [Axl] was when he called me and was trying to explain what he wanted to do. And, basically, it was: I want to change the sound of the band. You know, I want to go more into a current direction. You know, I want to use, you know, more industrial type things. You know, he was really into bands like Jane's Addiction, Pearl Jam and Nine Inch Nails. And I just kinda laughed and said: You know, look - I want to play guitar in a loud version of The Rolling Stones, you know?" (Gilby, Spin, 07/99)

i think your a little harsh on axl here, i wouldn't put him per say in the same category as Sly 

Axl was always a bad ass, even when he turned into paranoia and wanting to exhibit full control of the band

i still think he is a bad ass but a much different one - who wishes he could be himself before when it was okay to not give a shit about what everyoone thought, now it appers hes done a bit of a 180 learing on the side of mild appeal or mild approval from the masses 

Edited by double talkin jive mfkr
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, double talkin jive mfkr said:

great topic 

yes he was! but he was the leader and coolest of all posers 

his hip hop swag is evidence of this, his personification of an associated NWA rap artist free styling during rocket queen at tokyo is proof of this 

 

 

Well see, I don't fault him for liking NWA. I thought Axl had great taste in music for the most part and he chose some amazing bands to open for GnR during the UYI tour. The guy predicted the rise of NIN, Pearl Jam, Nirvana, Soundgarden, etc. The unfortunate thing really was -- rather than finding a way to blend old guns with these influences, he wanted to abandon the entire sound of Guns for something new.

Considering how many fans had problems with Use Your Illusion and the Axl ballads, I can't imagine an album full of "Oh my God" going over well with the GnR fanbase of the mid 90's. Evolution is one thing but it seems to me he wanted to overhaul the sound entirely.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, RONIN said:

Well see, I don't fault him for liking NWA. I thought Axl had great taste in music for the most part and he chose some amazing bands to open for GnR during the UYI tour. The guy predicted the rise of NIN, Pearl Jam, Nirvana, Soundgarden, etc. The unfortunate thing really was -- rather than finding a way to blend old guns with these influences, he wanted to abandon the entire sound of Guns for something new.

Considering how many fans had problems with Use Your Illusion and the Axl ballads, I can't imagine an album full of "Oh my God" going over well with the GnR fanbase of the mid 90's. Evolution is one thing but it seems to me he wanted to overhaul the sound entirely.

of course not, this is what made axl one of a kind, his willingness to fully branch out 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, RONIN said:

Should GnR have released another album in 1993 rather than The Spaghetti Incident? Did they lose touch with American fans by touring the world for 2.5 years? 

I think the spaghetti incident hurt them more than the tours did with the fans. At the time that album was raped, with time it's got a bit more love, but I remember back then people were really not digging it. So, yes, I think another album in 93 would have been a better move, with hindsight.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, IncitingChaos said:

Axl has a great ear for music, anyone that knows someone like this knows that that person is always the first to discover this or that...when it becomes cool then they find the next thing...some people just have a knack for finding the next thing. 

He got it wrong a few times - he liked Limp Bizkit back in the day and had some shitty hair bands open for Guns, but for the most part agreed -- great taste in music with a diverse set of influences. He should have gone solo, those could have been some wild records without the pressure of the GnR name.

Wish I was around for the early UYI shows when they had bands like Faith No More, Soundgarden and NIN opening for them -- that must have been a blast. I know Faith No More and NIN were booed by the guns crowd, but for the people that were into that kind of thing, it must have been a trip.

Edited by RONIN
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, double talkin jive mfkr said:

great topic 

yes he was! but he was the leader and coolest of all posers 

his hip hop swag is evidence of this, his personification of an associated NWA rap artist free styling during rocket queen at tokyo is proof of this 

 

 

But he's not freestyling. That's 'Tastes Good, Don't It?', which was written by the band in '87 or '88.

Edited by Gunner927
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, RONIN said:

Should GnR have released another album in 1993 rather than The Spaghetti Incident? Did they lose touch with American fans by touring the world for 2.5 years? 

I don't think they would've been able to put something new together by '93. They pretty much only put TSI out because it was fun for them after the undertaking that was UYI, and they recorded most of it on the road. It's clear things with Axl & Slash were deteriorating pretty rapidly, as evidenced by the debacle with Sympathy for the Devil. And their efforts to do something in '94 and '95 went nowhere.

It's likely that if they had tried to rush another new album or EP of material out, the implosion would've just came sooner.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think axl was very impressionable at that time, he still had a decent physique, but some dickhead told him he could wear the bike shorts....  

i know this guy who was on the road crew (older than me) back in 1992, he said that Axl is a wine connosouier.... And always travels with the finest and most expensive French wine.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, he did seem to be very interested in "keeping up with the Jones" so to speak- he wanted Guns N Roses to become Nine Inch Nails, and then possibly Limp Bizkit as well.

I dunno, watch the video clip to Estranged and ask yourself if Axl is a poser :lol:

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think Axl was and is the real deal, and maybe he just wanted Guns to stay relevant as a band. He listened to other bands like Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Faith No More, and NIN and wanted Guns to move forward artistically probably.

For example, when rory gallagher heard the sex pistols, he saw punk as the future and didn't even want to release a completed album for years. (which was great btw)

Luckily for Axl, that problem kinda solved itself.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, Rovim said:

I think Axl was and is the real deal, and maybe he just wanted Guns to stay relevant as a band. He listened to other bands like Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Faith No More, and NIN and wanted Guns to move forward artistically probably.

For example, when rory gallagher heard the sex pistols, he saw punk as the future and didn't even want to release a completed album for years. (which was great btw)

Luckily for Axl, that problem kinda solved itself.

Axl is authentic, which is almost unheard of for an artist at his level. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, double talkin jive mfkr said:

All kidding aside I don't think axl was actually a poser, he liked to reinvent himself with the times 

Hetfield came off as a bitter bich in that feud 

They were part of a lineage of stadium bands. No one calls Jagger or Tyler posers. At that level being a poser is kind of your job. 

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, IncitingChaos said:

Eh I think the people that didn't know Axl thought it was an act, but the people that got close with him knew better. He was just lost in his mind. 

When it came to Guns Axl wanted them to be the best, or at the top of their game. I think he felt that to survive the changing music landscape he needed to reinvent the sound every record and by the time the 4th record was coming together there was no clear sound that was popular and he seemed to just be jumping around to different influences trying to create something unique but that could last in the current music climate. 

Obviously Axl's derailment of what he wanted versus how he wanted to do it got in the way and eventually everything fell apart. 

Was he a poser? I wouldn't think so

Well said, this is pretty much my take on it too. 

No doubt what Slash was saying in those quotes above was true too. I very much believe what Slash was saying was true, but I don't believe Slash thought he was a poser, I think perhaps Axl was more aware that there might have been an expiry time frame on GNR being at the top and he thought that moving with the times was going to prolong the band where as what slash said was, I just don't fucking care, I want to rock out like I've always done. 

Its interesting to me because the way slash says it that if Axl had of just gone away for a year and done whatever the hell he wanted and then come back, then slash would have waited and been cool, as long as it wasn't with guns, and that's where it goes off the rails. 

One last point, it's easy for Manson and pricks like Kiss to come out and bag Axl, but what's the motive? There's always a motive. For what it's worth I don't see Axl giving interviews bagging people out to big himself up, these people calling Axl as poser are doing just that. 

I take that shit with a grain of salt. 

Axl was/is a fucking rock star, sure not everyone's cup of tea and yes he's out there to be criticised and quite rightly for some things, but calling him a poser sounds fucking bitchy And pretty shallow in itself. All Axl said was he'd like to work with those people? What's the problem? 

 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...