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Second Scottish Independence Referendum


AtariLegend

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On 31/03/2017 at 0:35 PM, AtariLegend said:

Cameron doing a U turn, talking about how he was never a fan of the EU. Didn't like the flag for the right wing press.

You mean a man who spent years going on about evil human rights at every PM Q/A's in parliament during his tenure didn't like the EU? Shocking!

Always thought Cameron being pushed as the face of REMAIN, was an attempt at self sabotage. Fucking Tories. 

Cameron is beneath contempt, just like most politicians. It's hardly surprising he's done a u-turn, the horrible little tosser! :vomit:

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3 hours ago, bucketfoot said:

Voting to leave an undemocratic political union, run by unelected, self-serving bureaucrats and in doing so reclaiming our sovereignty and identity? Yeah, how dare we? Personally I think the Scots would be absolutely insane to leave the UK and try to get back in with the EU, but it would be their choice and it is only right that they get to decide on that.

The day Article 50 was triggered was a great, great day.

What specifically do you feel the UK have reclaimed?

I'd also like to ask how specifically Westminster is more democratic than Brussels.

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16 minutes ago, AtariLegend said:

What specifically do you feel the UK have reclaimed?

I'd also like to ask how specifically Westminster is more democratic than Brussels.

Our sovereignty, successive governments have gradually given it away to the EU when it wasn't theirs to give away. The ability to make our own laws and not have to abide by EU law. The ability to regain control of our borders (immigration needs to be controlled, not ended, it is unsustainable at the current year on year numbers for a country of this size, freedom of movement is utter nonsense imo), Everybody from around the world who want's to come to live/work here should be treated on a level playing field not heavily weighted in the favour of EU countries as is currently the case. The ability to trade on a global scale instead of being shackled to the EU. Westminster is democratic because we can remove a government/MP every 4/5 years, we can't kick Juncker, Tusk etc. out, we didn't elect them in the first place. If you have a different opinion then fair enough.

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39 minutes ago, bucketfoot said:

The ability to make our own laws and not have to abide by EU law. 

I'd love to know which specific EU laws you feel hurt us. Did you see a straight Banana once in Asda and think, it must have been that pesky EU... like audiences on Question Time?

Were you disappointed the EU said the investigatory powers act was illegal?

39 minutes ago, bucketfoot said:

The ability to regain control of our borders (immigration needs to be controlled, not ended, it is unsustainable at the current year on year numbers for a country of this size

You're aware of the numbers of immigration to this country from outside the EU that have nothing to do with free movement of people?

39 minutes ago, bucketfoot said:

The ability to trade on a global scale instead of being shackled to the EU.

You're aware the trade deals we're about to lose via EU aren't just with other member states and how it'd be counter productive if we replaced those deals with lets say China?

39 minutes ago, bucketfoot said:

Westminster is democratic because we can remove a government/MP every 4/5 years, we can't kick Juncker, Tusk etc. out, we didn't elect them in the first place. If you have a different opinion then fair enough.

EU Parliament is elected via proportionate representation.

The commission is chosen by each member states government, it's May/Tories choice who our representative is, not faceless members of the EU. They represent each member state, the countries governments hold the real power. However the democratically elected EU parliament must give approval. It just so happens that the UK for some reason send UKIPers who either don't vote/abstain on everything or don't show half the time. If Farage turns up, he usually gives some speech to get Daily Express/Mail readers all hot and bothered to cover up his voting record. 

As for Junker, the title of President is just that. A title, it's the not same as being President of France or the USA. He's a speaker for the commission and member states which did include the UK. He's not someone with powers such as to change the law or declare war for example.

Tusk is the same for the Council. The Council is made up of the heads of each country. Tusk again is just a speaker. 

Considering House of Lords, it's more democratic than what we have. Nevermind getting into the debate of May. 

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26 minutes ago, AtariLegend said:

I'd love to know which specific EU laws you feel hurt us. Did you see a straight Banana once in Asda and think, it must have been that pesky EU... like audiences on Question Time?

Were you disappointed the EU said the investigatory powers act was illegal?

You're aware of the numbers of immigration to this country from outside the EU that have nothing to do with free movement of people?

You're aware the trade deals we're about to lose via EU aren't just with other member states and how it'd be counter productive if we replaced those deals with lets say China?

EU Parliament is elected via proportionate representation.

The commission is chosen by each member states government, it's May/Tories choice who our representative is, not faceless members of the EU. They represent each member state, the countries governments hold the real power. However the democratically elected EU parliament must give approval. It just so happens that the UK for some reason send UKIPers who either don't vote/abstain on everything or don't show half the time. If Farage turns up, he usually gives some speech to get Daily Express/Mail readers all hot and bothered to cover up his voting record. 

As for Junker, the title of President is just that. A title, it's the not same as being President of France or the USA. He's a speaker for the commission and member states which did include the UK. He's not someone with powers such as to change the law or declare war for example.

Tusk is the same for the Council. The Council is made up of the heads of each country. Tusk again is just a speaker. 

Considering House of Lords, it's more democratic than what we have. Nevermind getting into the debate of May. 

I'm not interested in getting into a silly debate about straight bananas for fucks sake, you asked me a question and I answered it. Now, if you disagree, that's fine, I respect that, we clearly have a very different opinion over this. The fact is the referendum is over and we are leaving, I just wish the country would pull together now to make it work, instead of the constant attempts of sabotage by the Remain side. It's over, you lost, get over it, I fucking would have done by now if it had gone the other way.

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AND DID THOSE FEEEEEEEEEET IN AINCENT TIIIIIIIMES WALK UPON ENGLANDS MOUNTAINSIIIIIIIIDE :D

I'm happy with Brexit.  I don't care about immigration, i don't care about any of the political hot potatoes surrounding the issue, i just want this country to retain it sovereignity (not saying it necessarily would've been robbed of it as such) and...I dunno, this place has a history and...I don't wannabe part of Europe, the EU, to me it's like an on-going experiment and...I'm not explaining myself at all well here, I just mean like...there's just too much to this place for it to sit well with me that it's like, part of Europe.

Anyway, the fuckin' country has spoken right, it's the will of the people...and thats that.  If we're gonna go ramming democracy up peoples arses abroad then lets at least be good examples of it.

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Well I hope you guys know the right wing end of the Tories/right wing press trying to suggest we'd go to war with Spain/EU just because Spain want a say on Gibraltar's trade deal are the fuckers you're trying to give further sovereignty to. 

Maybe if England stopped forcing the Tories on the rest of the UK, we'd be a little bit more open to leaving the EU.

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  • 2 weeks later...
20 hours ago, AtariLegend said:

I was on yougov looking at most recent results.

Few interesting selective results;

12% of UKIP voters don't think it should be illegal to sleep with dogs.

...And SNP voters are the least likely in the UK to get Sunburn. 

Now that is funny.

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On 3/4/2017 at 11:59 AM, Len Cnut said:

AND DID THOSE FEEEEEEEEEET IN AINCENT TIIIIIIIMES WALK UPON ENGLANDS MOUNTAINSIIIIIIIIDE :D

I'm happy with Brexit.  I don't care about immigration, i don't care about any of the political hot potatoes surrounding the issue, i just want this country to retain it sovereignity (not saying it necessarily would've been robbed of it as such) and...I dunno, this place has a history and...I don't wannabe part of Europe, the EU, to me it's like an on-going experiment and...I'm not explaining myself at all well here, I just mean like...there's just too much to this place for it to sit well with me that it's like, part of Europe.

Anyway, the fuckin' country has spoken right, it's the will of the people...and thats that.  If we're gonna go ramming democracy up peoples arses abroad then lets at least be good examples of it.

Your country has spoken, mine did too but because we're smaller, Mrs May appears to believe it's fine to ignore it and grant no concessions to us whatsoever... I've been a European Citizen all my life, I don't really want that taken away by the decision of a bunch of right-wing morons in Hinckley, Great Yarmouth, Tiddleywink, Bumfuck-on-the-Wold or any of your other weird hyphenated towns when every single local authority in Scotland voted to remain.

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3 hours ago, Graeme said:

Your country has spoken, mine did too but because we're smaller, Mrs May appears to believe it's fine to ignore it and grant no concessions to us whatsoever... I've been a European Citizen all my life, I don't really want that taken away by the decision of a bunch of right-wing morons in Hinckley, Great Yarmouth, Tiddleywink, Bumfuck-on-the-Wold or any of your other weird hyphenated towns when every single local authority in Scotland voted to remain.

Are we not a collective though under current circumstances?  I mean i don't know so thats why I'm asking, the brexit vote, it factored the lot of us in right?  I wouldn't worry about my opinion anyway, if the world scene remains as it is my sort will soon be subject to an Enoch Powell-esque purge and repatriated to back where we came from anyway :lol:  

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On 13/04/2017 at 10:52 PM, Len Cnut said:

Are we not a collective though under current circumstances?

Yes we are, the vote was for the whole of the UK and that was always clear. It doesn't matter if Scotland voted this or Wales voted that, the result is what it is, as it would have been had we voted Remain overall. That doesn't stop the toys flying out the pram though and the temper tantrums, unfortunately.

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12 minutes ago, bucketfoot said:

Yes we are, the vote was for the whole of the UK and that was always clear. It doesn't matter if Scotland voted this or Wales voted that, the result is what it is, as it would have been had we voted Remain overall. That doesn't stop the toys flying out the pram though and the temper tantrums, unfortunately.

Don't get me wrong, if the jocks and taffys ever want independence i reckon they should get it, it's just as things stand we are a collective and the vote is counted as a collective so it is what it is.  

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1 hour ago, Len Cnut said:

Don't get me wrong, if the jocks and taffys ever want independence i reckon they should get it, it's just as things stand we are a collective and the vote is counted as a collective?

Totally, as I said earlier, they have every right to decide for themselves if they want to go it alone, I personally hope they don't as I think they would be mental to do so, but it is their choice to make. All pisstaking to one side, I like the Scots btw in case it's coming across differently? I don't care much for Wee Jimmy Krankie and her SNP cronies though. Wales voted Leave as well so they're all in with us.

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41 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

Don't get me wrong, if the jocks and taffys ever want independence i reckon they should get it, it's just as things stand we are a collective and the vote is counted as a collective so it is what it is.  

The current Scottish government were elected on a manifesto which says if the UK as a whole voted to leave and Scotland voted to remain, they would hold an independence referendum. They're democratically obligated to.

Having said that, the election is a bit of a curveball, but if the unionist parties do as badly in this election as they did in 2015, and if the Tories sweep the board in England, it's pretty much goodnight vienna for the Union.

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20 minutes ago, Graeme said:

The current Scottish government were elected on a manifesto which says if the UK as a whole voted to leave and Scotland voted to remain, they would hold an independence referendum. They're democratically obligated to.

Having said that, the election is a bit of a curveball, but if the unionist parties do as badly in this election as they did in 2015, and if the Tories sweep the board in England, it's pretty much goodnight vienna for the Union.

Am I right in thinking there's not really much of an appetite for another Independence Referendum among a lot of Scots though? Certainly, bits and pieces I've read tend to suggest that's the case.

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This is worrying. Tories sense blood. 

Also know that if anything goes wrong between 2019-2020 post Brexit in the event of no transitional deal they're screwed. This way they can shout that they're delivering the will of people and put any right wing thing in their manifesto that they want... people are still going to vote for them. They'll have an excuse to do anything.

For fuck sake Corbyn!

I don't like Labour, but I don't want to live under the Tories. Especially not these Tories.

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7 minutes ago, Dazey said:

Could be the best thing to happen to Labour. They get absolutely annihilated and the Corbyn supporters get a wake up call. 

...Or Tories could slip in something into their manifesto about the death penalty being mandatory for everyone earning under £27,000 a year and people on council estates would still vote for the Tories, because of the Daily Mail and the "will of the people!".

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