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Second Scottish Independence Referendum


AtariLegend

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2 minutes ago, AtariLegend said:

...Or Tories could slip in something into their manifesto about the death penalty being mandatory for everyone earning under £27,000 a year and people on council estates would still vote for the Tories, because of the Daily Mail and the "will of the people!".

Serves the hardcore lefties who hijacked the Labour Party right. Shame that others may have to suffer in order for a proper opposition leader to take over. 

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31 minutes ago, Dazey said:

Serves the hardcore lefties who hijacked the Labour Party right. Shame that others may have to suffer in order for a proper opposition leader to take over. 

Not even sure what the hard left is in the UK. In my opinion it's a media invention by Murdoch and the Mail.

These are the same people that called Tony Blair a lefty during Iraq.

If Labour was to fail, fine. ...But those "others" that have to deal with it aren't "others", they're us.

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56 minutes ago, Dazey said:

Could be the best thing to happen to Labour. They get absolutely annihilated and the Corbyn supporters get a wake up call. 

If it gets rid of Corbyn, Abbott and all the other clowns it'll be worth it. Labour are already in the wilderness, they're about to go into oblivion! :lol:

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5 minutes ago, AtariLegend said:

Not even sure what the hard left is in the UK. In my opinion it's a media invention by Murdoch and the Mail.

They're the few hundred thousand who have elected Corbyn twice now and simply refuse to acknowledge that they're destroying any credible opposition to a Tory government.

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1 hour ago, bucketfoot said:

Am I right in thinking there's not really much of an appetite for another Independence Referendum among a lot of Scots though? Certainly, bits and pieces I've read tend to suggest that's the case.

Pro-independence parties have taken around half the popular vote in the most recent Holyrood and Westminster elections (more than half in the 2015 Westminster election) which suggests that the movement spawned by the independence referendum have united behind that cause and that support has not diminished (if anything it's increased slightly), while support for the Union remains largely split between Labour and the Conservatives, therefore uneffectively mobilised in a first-past-the post general election context. I don't know where you generally get your news, but most print and broadcast media in the UK is generally hostile to Scottish independence and likely to seize upon any headline that can be spun as a "Blow for Sturgeon".

I don't know if anyone can really trust opinion polls anymore, but in the most recent aggregate of polls, John Curtice suggests that the apparent lack of appetite for a second referendum may be tactical among supporters of independence:

"Given the Yes side still seem to be behind in the polls (albeit no more than narrowly) some supporters of independence may want Ms Sturgeon to stay her hand for fear that a second ballot would be lost. In short their opposition may simply be tactical. If that is the case, they might not prove so supportive of the Prime Minister should she try to stop any attempt by Ms Sturgeon to hold a second ballot.

Distinguishing between these two explanations is nigh on impossible given the polling evidence currently available. But one clue that perhaps the reluctance of some Yes voters is more tactical than principled comes from two further questions on the subject posed by Panelbase, in one instance for the Sunday Times and one for Wings Over Scotland. In each case the poll contained two options for an ‘early’ referendum – one holding a ballot within the two year time frame for the Brexit negotiations and one doing so after those negotiations are over and the UK is set to leave the EU. Both these polls suggest that most supporters of independence are just as keen on one or other of these early referendum options as unionists are reluctant to see them pursued."

35 minutes ago, Dazey said:

Could be the best thing to happen to Labour. They get absolutely annihilated and the Corbyn supporters get a wake up call. 

What do you want the Labour Party to be? Like, what would your ideal Labour Party be? Do you want them to revert to full-blown Blairism (cause that went really well)? Not having a go, just curious.

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6 minutes ago, Graeme said:

Pro-independence parties have taken around half the popular vote in the most recent Holyrood and Westminster elections (more than half in the 2015 Westminster election) which suggests that the movement spawned by the independence referendum have united behind that cause and that support has not diminished (if anything it's increased slightly), while support for the Union remains largely split between Labour and the Conservatives, therefore uneffectively mobilised in a first-past-the post general election context. I don't know where you generally get your news, but most print and broadcast media in the UK is generally hostile to Scottish independence and likely to seize upon any headline that can be spun as a "Blow for Sturgeon".

I don't know if anyone can really trust opinion polls anymore, but in the most recent aggregate of polls, John Curtice suggests that the apparent lack of appetite for a second referendum may be tactical among supporters of independence:

"Given the Yes side still seem to be behind in the polls (albeit no more than narrowly) some supporters of independence may want Ms Sturgeon to stay her hand for fear that a second ballot would be lost. In short their opposition may simply be tactical. If that is the case, they might not prove so supportive of the Prime Minister should she try to stop any attempt by Ms Sturgeon to hold a second ballot.

Distinguishing between these two explanations is nigh on impossible given the polling evidence currently available. But one clue that perhaps the reluctance of some Yes voters is more tactical than principled comes from two further questions on the subject posed by Panelbase, in one instance for the Sunday Times and one for Wings Over Scotland. In each case the poll contained two options for an ‘early’ referendum – one holding a ballot within the two year time frame for the Brexit negotiations and one doing so after those negotiations are over and the UK is set to leave the EU. Both these polls suggest that most supporters of independence are just as keen on one or other of these early referendum options as unionists are reluctant to see them pursued."

Good stuff mate, interesting read, that.

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Why does no one like Corbo?  I mean all politicians are cunts really but out of the lot on display I'd have him.  First of all he's a Gooner, most important thing...secondly he's always like, looking out for the working classes, poorer people and that, seems a good man.

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Just now, MillionsOfSpiders said:

He really is. The Tories are very clever in calling an early election knowing nobody can really take labour lead by Corbin seriously. :facepalm:

I've voted Labour all my life but they certainly don't speak to me anymore, they're a complete and utter shambles. The Tories will obliterate them, they know when to strike, they are masters at it, the devious, horrible bastards! RIP Labour.

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2 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

Why does no one like Corbo?  I mean all politicians are cunts really but out of the lot on display I'd have him.  First of all he's a Gooner, most important thing...secondly he's always like, looking out for the working classes, poorer people and that, seems a good man.

Well, he's shown he's not even fit to lead a credible opposition never mind a government. It's been like one big fucking wind up since he got in.

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7 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

Why does no one like Corbo?  I mean all politicians are cunts really but out of the lot on display I'd have him.  First of all he's a Gooner, most important thing...secondly he's always like, looking out for the working classes, poorer people and that, seems a good man.

He let Dianne Abbott sit on his face.

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10 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

Why does no one like Corbo?  I mean all politicians are cunts really but out of the lot on display I'd have him.  First of all he's a Gooner, most important thing...secondly he's always like, looking out for the working classes, poorer people and that, seems a good man.

It's not that I don't like the guy but rather that he's just incompetent. He's clinging on to power despite overwhelming opposition and in all likelihood he's going to lead the Labour Party to their worst election defeat since Michael Foot was in charge in 83. If this election goes the way the polls are suggesting then you will have a Tory government with no credible opposition who can pretty much do whatever they want and that's not  good news for anybody.

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