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Chuck Berry


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... and so the hyperbole begins.

Don't get me wrong, I fully acknowledge the influence this guy had on popular music over the last 70 years. But having said that, some people are more influential than they are great themselves, and as unpopular and controversial to the hipsters as this may sound, I think Chuck Berry fits into this mould.

 

You don't really explain why though.

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The majority of the general public would only recognise one Chuck Berry song, and lets face it, once you know one Chuck Berry song, you know them all. They all sound the same.

Havana Moon sounds the same as Johnny B Goode then?  And as far as the majority of the general public this is 2017, you are over-estimating the majority of the general publics regard for pop music, the majority of the general public wouldn't recognise a lot of greats, from Elvis to The Beatles to The Stones, pop music fans read so many magazines and bios that they buy into this shit that each and every person on the street with half a head on his shoulders knows songs by 'x' artist but the majority of the general public don't give that much of a fuck about pop music.  And anyway, when was that ever a barometer of quality?  The majority of the general public ain't mourning Berry either.

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But it was that style that went on to influence so many others, who took what he did, and made something bigger and better out of it. Chuck may have been one of the early pioneers, and he indeed deserves his dues for that, but anybody who claims that he did it best is lying to themselves. 

Who does rock n roll better than Chuck Berry?  I could probably name you equals...but better?  If it's out there i ain't heard it.  He absolutely did it the best or up there with the very best, absolutely no doubt about that.  And in terms of certain aspects of it, musically, he is absolutely the inventor.  That blue print of the intro riff, lick laden playing, the solo etc etc, he laid that down, there were people doing it before yes, T Bone Walker or as yous all have lept back 30 years from there to Robert Johnson but they were blues musicians, different genre doing a different thing, they didn't co-join all those numerous aspects into one product like Berry did.  Also that two string stuff he does on guitar with the trippin' pinkie, thats Berry basically replicating boogie woogie piano chords on a guitar, that is absolutely his doing and it is the heart and soul of rock n roll.

And in terms of doing it the best, name me a guitar play, in rock n roll here, with his presicion, his cleaness of tone, his nuance of playing, if you think it's just some sloppy Keith Richards, Jimmy Page type crap watch Hail Hail Rock n Roll when he's putting Keith through the paces and tell me that shit is as easy as it looks, his timing on the guitar was like a fucking metronome, he weren't just slipping those licks in at roughly 'x' part of the song, they went right THERE, on THAT spot and he executed that shit to a T, he could switch up the time on those shits and doing it to a whole other beat and still now exactly where that shit went.  Find me that guitar player, in rock n roll, name him that had that kinda game and that kinda accuracy with what he was doing, remember, Chuck made a life of that shit, to the uninitiated it looks easy and effortless but try doing it and tell me if it's as effortless, i seen Lick Library tutorial vids doing that shit wrong.

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 And to suggest that all music derived from Chuck Berry is beyond ridiculous, revisionistic and pure hyperbole.

all music is ridiculous but rock n roll?  You could make a seriously convincing case for the lions share of credit belonging to Chuck.

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also, those who came after him took what he did and did something that translated and resonated with people on a much more profound level than what Chuck did.

How exactly does one guage profundity of influence on other peoples behalf? :lol:

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You could argue that there would've been no Beatles or Stones without Chuck Berry, but then you could also say there would be no Chuck Berry without Robert Johnson. It's pretty squabbling over semantics, when the reality is, no one person can be attributed for inventing rocknroll. We just love to deify people from the past and hold them up on some kind of unrealistic cosmic pedestal.

I agree with this to a point but when you start going as far back as Robert Johnson you are framing the discussion outside of the parameters of rock n roll which is whats being discussed in terms of who or what invented it.  I don't really go in for all that 'he is the creator' cobblers but, like i said, musically?  You'd be hard pushed for a better answer to the 'who invented rock n roll' question.  Elvis had the whole package, Little Richard had the whole package but in terms of where rock n roll went in terms of the guitar and song structure and even subject matter and songwriting, like i say, give me a better answer than Chuck Berry.

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^ TBH, the original post wasn't meant to be disrespectful to Chuck. It was more a reactionary thing against all the fakes who come out in mourning pretending as if they're huge fans everytime we lose one of the musical greats. I saw it with MJ, I saw it with Bowie, I saw it with Prince, I saw it with Lemmy... and it just gets a bit nauseating when you know half of these people probably don't even listen to these artists or have the first fucking clue about them. I have no issue with genuine fans paying their respects, its the bandwagon jumpers who act heartbroken everytime an actual musical legend passes until a few weeks later when its no longer in the news and they've completely forgotten about them.

And then you have insufferable people like @Sunset Gardner who act as if they've lost their mother and you've just pissed on her grave. It's the worst kind of social melodrama and hysteria.

Isn't that the ultimate hipster thing though, having a go at it for the sake of being reactionary?  I totally agree though, all this bollocks about 'you can't slag off 'x' cuz they're dead' is a load of bollocks and I welcome your slagging off of Chuck if its how you feel, or any musician for that matter, i think it's healthy even, its just when i dont agree with some of the specifics you cite.

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51 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

You don't really explain why though.

Havana Moon sounds the same as Johnny B Goode then?  And as far as the majority of the general public this is 2017, you are over-estimating the majority of the general publics regard for pop music, the majority of the general public wouldn't recognise a lot of greats, from Elvis to The Beatles to The Stones, pop music fans read so many magazines and bios that they buy into this shit that each and every person on the street with half a head on his shoulders knows songs by 'x' artist but the majority of the general public don't give that much of a fuck about pop music.  And anyway, when was that ever a barometer of quality?  The majority of the general public ain't mourning Berry either.

Who does rock n roll better than Chuck Berry?  I could probably name you equals...but better?  If it's out there i ain't heard it.  He absolutely did it the best or up there with the very best, absolutely no doubt about that.  And in terms of certain aspects of it, musically, he is absolutely the inventor.  That blue print of the intro riff, lick laden playing, the solo etc etc, he laid that down, there were people doing it before yes, T Bone Walker or as yous all have lept back 30 years from there to Robert Johnson but they were blues musicians, different genre doing a different thing, they didn't co-join all those numerous aspects into one product like Berry did.  Also that two string stuff he does on guitar with the trippin' pinkie, thats Berry basically replicating boogie woogie piano chords on a guitar, that is absolutely his doing and it is the heart and soul of rock n roll.

And in terms of doing it the best, name me a guitar play, in rock n roll here, with his presicion, his cleaness of tone, his nuance of playing, if you think it's just some sloppy Keith Richards, Jimmy Page type crap watch Hail Hail Rock n Roll when he's putting Keith through the paces and tell me that shit is as easy as it looks, his timing on the guitar was like a fucking metronome, he weren't just slipping those licks in at roughly 'x' part of the song, they went right THERE, on THAT spot and he executed that shit to a T, he could switch up the time on those shits and doing it to a whole other beat and still now exactly where that shit went.  Find me that guitar player, in rock n roll, name him that had that kinda game and that kinda accuracy with what he was doing, remember, Chuck made a life of that shit, to the uninitiated it looks easy and effortless but try doing it and tell me if it's as effortless, i seen Lick Library tutorial vids doing that shit wrong.

all music is ridiculous but rock n roll?  You could make a seriously convincing case for the lions share of credit belonging to Chuck.

How exactly does one guage profundity of influence on other peoples behalf? :lol:

I agree with this to a point but when you start going as far back as Robert Johnson you are framing the discussion outside of the parameters of rock n roll which is whats being discussed in terms of who or what invented it.  I don't really go in for all that 'he is the creator' cobblers but, like i said, musically?  You'd be hard pushed for a better answer to the 'who invented rock n roll' question.  Elvis had the whole package, Little Richard had the whole package but in terms of where rock n roll went in terms of the guitar and song structure and even subject matter and songwriting, like i say, give me a better answer than Chuck Berry.

Isn't that the ultimate hipster thing though, having a go at it for the sake of being reactionary?  I totally agree though, all this bollocks about 'you can't slag off 'x' cuz they're dead' is a load of bollocks and I welcome your slagging off of Chuck if its how you feel, or any musician for that matter, i think it's healthy even, its just when i dont agree with some of the specifics you cite.

^^^ Pretty much everything this bloke said. Absolutely spot on.

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On 3/22/2017 at 10:43 AM, Len Cnut said:

You don't really explain why though.

Havana Moon sounds the same as Johnny B Goode then?  And as far as the majority of the general public this is 2017, you are over-estimating the majority of the general publics regard for pop music, the majority of the general public wouldn't recognise a lot of greats, from Elvis to The Beatles to The Stones, pop music fans read so many magazines and bios that they buy into this shit that each and every person on the street with half a head on his shoulders knows songs by 'x' artist but the majority of the general public don't give that much of a fuck about pop music.  And anyway, when was that ever a barometer of quality?  The majority of the general public ain't mourning Berry either.

Who does rock n roll better than Chuck Berry?  I could probably name you equals...but better?  If it's out there i ain't heard it.  He absolutely did it the best or up there with the very best, absolutely no doubt about that.  And in terms of certain aspects of it, musically, he is absolutely the inventor.  That blue print of the intro riff, lick laden playing, the solo etc etc, he laid that down, there were people doing it before yes, T Bone Walker or as yous all have lept back 30 years from there to Robert Johnson but they were blues musicians, different genre doing a different thing, they didn't co-join all those numerous aspects into one product like Berry did.  Also that two string stuff he does on guitar with the trippin' pinkie, thats Berry basically replicating boogie woogie piano chords on a guitar, that is absolutely his doing and it is the heart and soul of rock n roll.

And in terms of doing it the best, name me a guitar play, in rock n roll here, with his presicion, his cleaness of tone, his nuance of playing, if you think it's just some sloppy Keith Richards, Jimmy Page type crap watch Hail Hail Rock n Roll when he's putting Keith through the paces and tell me that shit is as easy as it looks, his timing on the guitar was like a fucking metronome, he weren't just slipping those licks in at roughly 'x' part of the song, they went right THERE, on THAT spot and he executed that shit to a T, he could switch up the time on those shits and doing it to a whole other beat and still now exactly where that shit went.  Find me that guitar player, in rock n roll, name him that had that kinda game and that kinda accuracy with what he was doing, remember, Chuck made a life of that shit, to the uninitiated it looks easy and effortless but try doing it and tell me if it's as effortless, i seen Lick Library tutorial vids doing that shit wrong.

all music is ridiculous but rock n roll?  You could make a seriously convincing case for the lions share of credit belonging to Chuck.

How exactly does one guage profundity of influence on other peoples behalf? :lol:

I agree with this to a point but when you start going as far back as Robert Johnson you are framing the discussion outside of the parameters of rock n roll which is whats being discussed in terms of who or what invented it.  I don't really go in for all that 'he is the creator' cobblers but, like i said, musically?  You'd be hard pushed for a better answer to the 'who invented rock n roll' question.  Elvis had the whole package, Little Richard had the whole package but in terms of where rock n roll went in terms of the guitar and song structure and even subject matter and songwriting, like i say, give me a better answer than Chuck Berry.

Isn't that the ultimate hipster thing though, having a go at it for the sake of being reactionary?  I totally agree though, all this bollocks about 'you can't slag off 'x' cuz they're dead' is a load of bollocks and I welcome your slagging off of Chuck if its how you feel, or any musician for that matter, i think it's healthy even, its just when i dont agree with some of the specifics you cite.

well said Len! :)

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