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Axl Rose: The Rolling Stone Interview (old)


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38 minutes ago, MADDOGJONES said:

The people who chose to riot put everyone in danger, they made a choice to tear that place down.

Could Axl have handled it better? Most probably, but he shouldn't be responsible for the actions of others. They did what they did because they wanted to. The band announced they were coming back on but people wanted to riot. I'm not defending everything the man does, but he certainly gets the blame for a lot of things that aren't as clear cut as what gets reported. Would you agree with that or not? Perhaps he earned that kind of treatment but it doesn't make it any less true. He's the bad guy, he's to blame for all and a lot of times when we find out the other side we go, oh, it makes a bit more sense now. You can see his point of view, even if you still don't agree with his actions.

I'm not excusing his part in it but I can certainly understand why he lost his cool. A man who is able to write, sing and perform like Axl isn't not going to have a deficit in his life to compensate for those gifts and there are many examples of that. It's clearly a package deal, he isn't faking anything.

MDJ

What about the people who were at the concert and didn't riot? Axl knew full well the implications of what he did. All those points about Axl's mentality and personality are valid, but they're not excuses. And even if they were, they have nothing to do with the media so I don't see how bringing them up is even important.

He acted like a spoiled man-child and then blamed everyone but himself. And you trying to explain it through it being the media's fault or his mental issues or whatever is embarrassing. Axl acted like an utter twat and should have accepted way more responsibility than he did. Not "maybe I could've handled it better but this, this and this..." It's pathetic really.

Why do you sign your posts? Who do you think you are, fucking Zorro?

Edited by AlexC
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1 minute ago, Kris_1989 said:

Aren't you eliminating cause & effect in that argument? I 100% agree with you about the press vilifying Axl in many situations but with the St. Louis incident Axl was a huge part of the problem... No matter what the asshole in the crowd was doing, Axl's reaction is what took everything to the next level. Axl could of stopped the show, made sure the asshole was dealt with, and then continued on with the show. Instead he made the decision to jump off the stage, attack the guy, throw down his microphone and end the show. Which is when the audience decided to riot. I'm not saying it's ok that they rioted, but if Axl had handled things more professionally that riot wouldn't of happened.

He instructed security to help numerous times but they did nothing.

If we're going to talk about cause and effect the buck stops with the guy interrupting the show and fighting with fans.

Again, not saying Axl didn't have anything to do with it, not saying he doesn't deserve some blame, but it was a complicated situation and there's enough blame to go around.

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Just now, MADDOGJONES said:

He instructed security to help numerous times but they did nothing.

If we're going to talk about cause and effect the buck stops with the guy interrupting the show and fighting with fans.

Again, not saying Axl didn't have anything to do with it, not saying he doesn't deserve some blame, but it was a complicated situation and there's enough blame to go around.

There's not enough blame going towards the one responsible. Axl.

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3 minutes ago, MADDOGJONES said:

He instructed security to help numerous times but they did nothing.

If we're going to talk about cause and effect the buck stops with the guy interrupting the show and fighting with fans.

Again, not saying Axl didn't have anything to do with it, not saying he doesn't deserve some blame, but it was a complicated situation and there's enough blame to go around.

Sorry, I think we might actually be in agreement for once then. :P When I read your other post I thought you were trying to say that the guy in the audience was solely to blame. My mistake.

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2 minutes ago, AlexC said:

What about the people who were at the concert and didn't riot? Axl knew full well the implications of what he did. All those points about Axl's mentality and personality are valid, but they're not excuses. And even if they were, they have nothing to do with the media so I don't see how bringing them up is even important.

He acted like a spoiled man-child and then blamed everyone but himself. And you trying to explain it through it being the media's fault or his mental issues or whatever is embarrassing. Axl acted like an utter twat and should have accepted way more responsibility than he did. Not "maybe I could've handled it better but this, this and this..." It's pathetic really.

Why do you sign your posts? Who do you think you are, fucking Zorro?

How in the world could Axl have known in advance that there would be a riot?

People get into fights all the time in public places, everyone else doesn't get a free pass to start rioting and tearing shit down. Axl gets in a fight so it's okay to destroy a whole building and rape people?

I think he handled himself like the crazy fucker he's always been, the crazy fucker who welcomed us to the jungle. We are talking about a rockstar here, not a Saturday morning kids tv presenter. People love to quote the band as "dangerous" but don't actually want any danger when it rears it's head. You think you get the songs and performance you get from him by being a calm, reasonable, snowflake? The guy has been off the rails since forever.

I haven't brought up Axl's mental health once, it has nothing to do with the media, which is why I never brought the matter up.

10 minutes ago, AlexC said:

There's not enough blame going towards the one responsible. Axl.

He seems to have caught the brunt of it for the last 25 years, no? Does he need some more?

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This whole argument is ludicrous. Who else is there to blame? The guy handing note(s) to Axl and allegedly fighting with fans? The people who chose to riot? Or Axl, the guy who jumped of stage, assaulted someone and walked off. Come on, this is a no brainier. It's not even an isolated incident, he has a history of walking off, not giving a shit, turning up hours late and occasionally not turning up at all. But it's never his fault. Oh wait, it is but poor Axl has mental issues which inhibit his ability to show up on time and deal with pressure.

Bullshit. If that were true why is he now showing up on time for every show? For two bands! Was the sudden rise in pay check enough to "cure" him? It was always a bullshit rockstar act. Plus this isn't a case of Axl maturing and growing up over time as he was chronically late throughout the Chinese Democracy era and still walked off stage and all that nonsense for years.

If it truly was due to his mental issues he couldn't just suddenly change. Stop excusing him.

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Just now, AlexC said:

This whole argument is ludicrous. Who else is there to blame? The guy handing note(s) to Axl and allegedly fighting with fans? The people who chose to riot? Or Axl, the guy who jumped of stage, assaulted someone and walked off. Come on, this is a no brainier. It's not even an isolated incident, he has a history of walking off, not giving a shit, turning up hours late and occasionally not turning up at all. But it's never his fault. Oh wait, it is but poor Axl has mental issues which inhibit his ability to show up on time and deal with pressure.

Bullshit. If that were true why is he now showing up on time for every show? For two bands! Was the sudden rise in pay check enough to "cure" him? It was always a bullshit rockstar act. Plus this isn't a case of Axl maturing and growing up over time as he was chronically late throughout the Chinese Democracy era and still walked off stage and all that nonsense for years.

If it truly was due to his mental issues he couldn't just suddenly change. Stop excusing him.

I don't think anyone has said it's not Axl's fault in this thread.

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2 hours ago, RONIN said:

In the "Is Axl a Poser" thread, someone brought up a great anecdote about Kurt Cobain vomiting blood before a show but still going out there to do the gig. There's our very own Slash, throwing up being amps and going out there to play or OD'ing and getting right back on the road a few days later. Where there's a will, there's a way.

Much more brilliant, tortured artists than Axl have fulfilled their commitments to the fans by showing up to perform. 

It's always been the same issue -- talented artist with too much money and power who feels the rules no longer apply to him. That's rockstar behavior 101. I don't fault him for it...I know a lot the grunge era bands and indie acts rejected that kind of behavior, but a lot of rockstars behave like divas. But...fans will desert you once they reach the breaking point. It seems like that's what was happening to Guns post-UYI. Even in 1993, they had less attendance to their shows compared to 1992 after all the negative press about Axl's behavior on tour.

I agree with this to an extent, in so much as if you're expecting the fans to stay on side and be loyal, you have to at least try to treat them with respect and placate them a little. It's definitely why Slash is looked upon more favourably of the two (at least among the casual fans), he seems and amiable, likeable, down to earth bloke you could have a few pints with and talk about your mutual love of Lemmy. :lol: Now, who knows? He might be a right little shit behind the scenes but he certainly doesn't appear that way to the general public. Axl, on the other hand, would appear to most people to be the exact opposite but I definitely wouldn't dismiss what he's been through in his life, which we'll not go into, or how it could affect his personality traits. While it's obvious he is a complex guy, who can be very difficult at times, you only have to look at the people who know him well who maintain he is the sweetest dude imaginable. Everyone is different and for me he doesn't have to fall into any set 'way' of behaving, personally I love all the drama and couldn't give a fuck attitude, it's what makes him so compelling, so I'll always be in the camp that, ultimately, he doesn't owe anything to anyone other than those close to him.

Edited by bucketfoot
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Just now, MADDOGJONES said:

I blamed the media for the riot? For Axl attacking Stump?

Yes! You had an entire post about how the media misrepresenting the event for 25 years as the reason for the negative public opinion of Axl. As if the fact that if they had included the information of it being a biker handing him notes and fighting rather than someone with a camera should somehow change the way the we look at the whole event and sympathise with Axl's actions. 

 

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2 minutes ago, AlexC said:

Yes! You had an entire post about how the media misrepresenting the event for 25 years as the reason for the negative public opinion of Axl. As if the fact that if they had included the information of it being a biker handing him notes and fighting rather than someone with a camera should somehow change the way the we look at the whole event and sympathise with Axl's actions. 

 

Yes, they did misrepresent the story in much of the press. There wasn't much mention at the time of the issues with Stump before the fight or the issues with security. You still see the same now with revisits to the subject. Is the full picture not relevant? Axl has many times interacted with the crowd to stop fans being attacked, hurt or the show being fucked with. The way it was painted in the media was that he attacked some harmless fan who just wanted to take some photos.

This doesn't mean I don't assign any blame to Axl (I have said that numerous times), he probably could have handled it better. What do you think he should have done? How should he have handled the situation?

 

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3 minutes ago, MADDOGJONES said:

This doesn't mean I don't assign any blame to Axl (I have said that numerous times), he probably could have handled it better. What do you think he should have done? How should he have handled the situation?

 

Are you joking?

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He totally contradicts himself for being late. First he says it's his show and he performs better later in the night, and then he says he hates letting people wait and that he is going through hell not being on time. I mean, come on, dude... if you don't want to be late, don't be late. It's not rocket science. The journalist shouldn't have let him get away with such a stupid comment and should have kept on asking.

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7 minutes ago, MADDOGJONES said:

You don't have an opinion on what he should have done? Only an opinion on what he shouldn't have done? How does that work?

Of course I have an opinion on what he should have done. Several. Maybe waiting more than 5 seconds for security to remove the so called "problem" before diving at him like a lunatic. Not diving at him at all. Once he's removed, continue the show rather than walking off due to the "lame-ass security." Stop the show and be clear about who he wanted to remove and why or better yet? Not do anything at all! Just play the fucking show. It has nothing to do with Axl. Even if you're gonna argue that the guy was a legitimate threat to others around him it's a hell of a lot smaller threat than the riot that ensued after Axl "handled" it.

Tbese things should be obvious. Almost any alternative would've been better than what Axl did.

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1 hour ago, MADDOGJONES said:

They aren't all assembled in the singers factory on a conveyor belt, they are different people, ya know?

Totally agree. A lot of people want him to be a performing seal and get pissed because he won't do it. You either accept it or you don't.

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2 minutes ago, AlexC said:

Of course I have an opinion on what he should have done. Several. Maybe waiting more than 5 seconds for security to remove the so called "problem" before diving at him like a lunatic. Not diving at him at all. Once he's removed, continue the show rather than walking off due to the "lame-ass security." Stop the show and be clear about who he wanted to remove and why or better yet? Not do anything at all! Just play the fucking show. It has nothing to do with Axl. Even if you're gonna argue that the guy was a legitimate threat to others around him it's a hell of a lot smaller threat than the riot that ensued after Axl "handled" it.

Tbese things should be obvious. Almost any alternative would've been better than what Axl did.

Well he waited most of the show for security to intervene with Stump and they did nothing. So he took it into his own hands.

He couldn't have him removed, he tried many times to have the issue handled. Others back him up on this.

Axl didn't know that a Riot would take place, he didn't have the benefit of putting it all together 25 years later on mygnr, he acted in the moment. For better or worse.

What would you be saying if he had done nothing and someone had got stabbed or killed and Axl knew all along the guy was a problem? It's not like things like that haven't happened at concerts, especially concerts with bad security, involving biker gangs. You'd probably wonder why nothing got sorted out, why didn't security intervene? If security didn't intervene why didn't Axl? I'm putting words in your mouth of course, but it's very easy to not look at the full picture when you have a bias, as you clearly do, i.e referring to Axl as a spoilt man-child, etc.

Obviously, the outcome of this was that people got hurt, stabbed, etc. Point is, It wasn't an easy situation to deal with. I wouldn't have wanted to be in his shoes, the crews shoes or in the audience.

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9 minutes ago, Whiskey Rose said:

It was over 20 years ago..I have certainly matured in that time, and I'm sure Axl has too...he was a guy going through a life crisis and fronting the biggest rock band out there..of course there were going to be issues.. should he have slammed down the mic and said they were going home? No. But we also did not know the whole story at the time, for years everyone thought he just attacked a poor soul in the audience with a camera, when the truth was that guy Stump was repeatedly trying to cause shit and the security repeatedly ignored Axl's requests for help. And he didn't punch the guy, i believe it turned out he slapped a security guard in the jaw..

I also don't understand why fans of the band focus on these old issues and use them as an excuse to insult the lead singer and call him terrible names instead of focusing on the here and now where most of these issues have resolved themselves. 

This, he mentions in the interview that he is going through therapy,

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Don't do drugs boys and girls....wow.  Just read that again (hadn't read that in 20+ years).  Although some of that interview may be  Fake News ...who knows what really was said.  Not to defend him or play devils advocate but their may have been a ton of editing and taking things out of context.   

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17 minutes ago, MADDOGJONES said:

Well he waited most of the show for security to intervene with Stump and they did nothing. So he took it into his own hands.

He couldn't have him removed, he tried many times to have the issue handled. Others back him up on this.

Axl didn't know that a Riot would take place, he didn't have the benefit of putting it all together 25 years later on mygnr, he acted in the moment. For better or worse.

What would you be saying if he had done nothing and someone had got stabbed or killed and Axl knew all along the guy was a problem? It's not like things like that haven't happened at concerts, especially concerts with bad security, involving biker gangs. You'd probably wonder why nothing got sorted out, why didn't security intervene? If security didn't intervene why didn't Axl? I'm putting words in your mouth of course, but it's very easy to not look at the full picture when you have a bias, as you clearly do, i.e referring to Axl as a spoilt man-child, etc.

Obviously, the outcome of this was that people got hurt, stabbed, etc. Point is, It wasn't an easy situation to deal with. I wouldn't have wanted to be in his shoes, the crews shoes or in the audience.

Well, they'd already played for an hour and half and no one was stabbed. It's unlikely that anyone would've. But even if something did happen, it wouldn't have been Axl's fault at all. But due to his actions, many people were hurt and that 100% could have been avoided. Do you honestly think the reason he jumped at him was for the protection of others? Really? Plus I don't have a bias at all. I'm just calling out the consequences of his past actions because it was mentioned in an interview from years ago. If anything, defending his bullshit bad boy image as honourable screams bias.

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3 minutes ago, AlexC said:

Well, they'd already played for an hour and half and no one was stabbed. It's unlikely that anyone would've. But even if something did happen, it wouldn't have been Axl's fault at all. But due to his actions, many people were hurt and that 100% could have been avoided. Do you honestly think the reason he jumped at him was for the protection of others? Really? Plus I don't have a bias at all. I'm just calling out the consequences of his past actions because it was mentioned in an interview from years ago. If anything, defending his bullshit bad boy image as honourable screams bias.

I just like to see it from everyone's perspective and think people are quick to paint the guy in the worst light possible.

Anyway, think we've exhausted this, we'll be going around in circles soon, so I'll move on. Good chat, Alex. Later.

Zorro.

Edited by MADDOGJONES
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Just now, MADDOGJONES said:

I just like to see it from everyone's perspective and think people are quick to paint the guy in the worst light possible.

Anyway, think we've exhausted this, we'll going around in circles soon, so I'll move on. Good chat, Alex. Later.

Zorro.

Yeah I was just about to say the same thing. Haha!

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