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Paradox of GN'R popularity


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5 hours ago, coolranchdressing! said:

 ok Aeorosmith were dying out by then too...they hit it big around 1992 or so but that's really it...oh Alicia Silverstone vids lol)..

You're sure you grew up in the 90s? Because you couldn't be more wrong. Aerosmith were at the height of their popularity in the mid 90s because of all those videos on MTV and they kept scoring hits throughout the rest of the 90s and even in the early 2000s. In fact, Aerosmith's biggest hit in America was in 1998 with that ballad movie song.

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10 minutes ago, EvanG said:

I think some bands might have made fun of GnR back in the day because of those movie budget videos they made and Axl being the diva that he was, not because of their music.

there were worst divas, Axl was a diva but was a rock n' roll artist too and about the movie budgets, Michael Jackson was fucking everyone up because of his short films, everybody that was smart enough did the same thing, see Aerosmith with the Crazy/Cryin/Amazing trilogy....

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Just now, cqleonardo said:

there were worst divas, Axl was a diva but was a rock n' roll artist too and about the movie budgets, Michael Jackson was fucking everyone up because of his short films, everybody that was smart enough did the same thing, see Aerosmith with the Crazy/Cryin/Amazing trilogy....

I'm not criticizing it, I'm just saying for some bands/artists that whole movie budget for a video was a joke. A lot of bands and artists used Anton Corbijn for their videos in the 90s and he was an artist himself and he created these really cool artistic videos that probably didn't even cost 1/6 of the budget November Rain cost.

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5 hours ago, EvanG said:

You're sure you grew up in the 90s? Because you couldn't be more wrong. Aerosmith were at the height of their popularity in the mid 90s because of all those videos on MTV and they kept scoring hits throughout the rest of the 90s and even in the early 2000s. In fact, Aerosmith's biggest hit in America was in 1998 with that ballad movie song.

During the height of Aerosmith's fame, they had people like Desmond Child and Diane Warren writing songs for them. Some people would consider that selling out. Don't want to miss a thing was Aerosmith's biggest hit and nobody in the band had a hand in writing it. I like Aerosmith regardless, but it seemed like they took the safe road at that time instead of trying to write their own tunes. I guess it would be like if sweet child o' mine or November rain were written by slick producers instead of the band. 

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One band or trend doesn't wipe out the last band. I didn't throw my GNR in the bin because I like FNM or Nirvana too. But the media discourse did change, but that didn't effect my box of tapes. I also got old stuff like Stones and Zepp who weren't doing as many interviews. But I could read old interviews and books. I got into The Doors through the movie. 

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1 hour ago, wasted said:

One band or trend doesn't wipe out the last band. I didn't throw my GNR in the bin because I like FNM or Nirvana too. But the media discourse did change, but that didn't effect my box of tapes. I also got old stuff like Stones and Zepp who weren't doing as many interviews. But I could read old interviews and books. I got into The Doors through the movie. 

So true.

When Nirvana, Pearl Jam etc were blowing up I was getting into (70's) Black Sabbath.

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22 hours ago, Silverburst80 said:

I still don't really know what selling out actually is, i would think the only way truly sell out would be completely changing your sound to cater to a bigger audience or getting a massive advance from a major label on the proviso you write in a style they want to sell more records. Some seem to think success is a way to label a band a sell out. A band can have ambitions of being huge or maybe even flying under the radar but it's not really up to them once the music hits the street, it's the people who decide i guess.

Selling out is running contrary to a set of espoused ideals I suppose.

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12 minutes ago, DR DOOM said:

So true.

When Nirvana, Pearl Jam etc were blowing up I was getting into (70's) Black Sabbath.

The reality is a lot fewer people are into the in thing when the in thing was in, when the in thing was in more people are into the out thing.  Like how they say the suburbs are always at least 5 years behind.  

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i have never been pigeonholed by a specific genre of music. for example, i would never say oh all grunge is the best, i have to only like grunge. music is made by people and people change all the time so of course music does as well. personally if someone were to offer me millions of dollars to stand on stage and do the macarena or whatever i'd do it in a heartbeat. and some people kind of do that *coughjustinbiebercough* and he has countless fans, bless their hearts. when i think of musicians that stood by their principles i always think first of the Beatles. jmo...

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9 minutes ago, AxlsFavoriteRose said:

i have never been pigeonholed by a specific genre of music. for example, i would never say oh all grunge is the best, i have to only like grunge. music is made by people and people change all the time so of course music does as well. personally if someone were to offer me millions of dollars to stand on stage and do the macarena or whatever i'd do it in a heartbeat. and some people kind of do that *coughjustinbiebercough* and he has countless fans, bless their hearts. when i think of musicians that stood by their principles i always think first of the Beatles. jmo...

I have.  Punk, hip hop, these were SERIOUSLY my thing as a lad.  Still are really.  I've always been into my clothes and that too so it all comes hand in hand.  Not that i ever dressed massively punk in terms of the archetype but y'know, here and there.

Edited by Len Cnut
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4 minutes ago, Silverburst80 said:

Didn't they once say Dylan sold out cause he started playing an electric, betraying his folk roots?. Can't please everybody i guess.

Folk as a scene was attached to a lot more than music back then y'see.

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1 minute ago, Len Cnut said:

I have.  Punk, hip hop, these were SERIOUSLY my thing as a lad.  Still are really.

so you can say you honestly like ALL music in a genre? you never heard one crappy punk song for instance? wait, what drugs are you on? :P 

1 minute ago, Len Cnut said:

Folk as a scene was attached to a lot more than music back then y'see.

my idea of torture would be strapped to a chair and made to listen to Bob Dylan for an hour :lol:

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22 minutes ago, AxlsFavoriteRose said:

so you can say you honestly like ALL music in a genre? you never heard one crappy punk song for instance? wait, what drugs are you on? :P 

Oh no, i just thought you meant like you've never walked around going 'im WELL into 'x''. Yknow, like walked around identifying as punk or a hip hop head, i misunderstood ya there.

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36 minutes ago, Silverburst80 said:

Didn't they once say Dylan sold out cause he started playing an electric, betraying his folk roots?. Can't please everybody i guess.

Dylan changed many times. He sold the electric revolutionaries out to go christian. His final quote was he was just a song and dance man. Axl has a story about Dylan only being interested in GNR covering Heaven's door for the royalties. In his book he gives some insight into his lyric writing process and it was pretty random. It Was taken from what was around him. Like he stayed in a friends house and there was a big rack of old books so he flicked through them and based lyrics off some off the parts he read. So people thought he had really deep literary lyrics but really they were just collages of lines. In the 90s he had no passion for rock so he reintrepreted all his songs in this jazz scale and the label put together bands for him to tour with. Recently he's been more of a New Orleans bluesman. He even played China for the money. I don't think he wanted to get pinned down as one certain thing, not sure how that relates to the sell out thing. In the 80s he did Empire Burlesque. The cover is so 80s, it's like a Duran Duran poster. He seemed to be just trying to entertain himself really. 

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1 hour ago, DR DOOM said:

So true.

When Nirvana, Pearl Jam etc were blowing up I was getting into (70's) Black Sabbath.

I was getting into Sabbath around that time too, really into bands that were sort of on the periphery like Helmet,Kyuss and stuff and remember Chaos AD by Sepultura and Vulger by Pantera were on heavy rotation...i got into AIC later down the line out of the grunge scene and love them, though really they are just a hard rock/metal band at the end of the day. Was discovering gritty east coast Hip hop too around that time, 93-97 so much great hip hop being released.

Edited by Silverburst80
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8 minutes ago, Silverburst80 said:

I was getting into Sabbath around that time too, really into bands that were sort of on the periphery like Helmet,Kyuss and stuff and remember Chaos AD by Sepultura and Vulger by Pantera were on heavy rotation...i got into AIC later down the line out of the grunge scene and love them, though really they are just a hard rock/metal band at the end of the day. Was discovering gritty east coast Hip hop too around that time, 93-97 so much great hip hop being released.

Good times. Ditto on the Pantera/Sepultura, chuck in some Primus and Bungle.

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1 minute ago, DR DOOM said:

Good times. Ditto on the Pantera/Sepultura, chuck in some Primus and Bungle.

Yeah great times, i gotta tip my hat the older guys who worked at the indoor skate park i used to frequent in my early teens. They were always blasting new bands or rappers over the speakers thats basically where i found out about most of the shit i got into.

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7 hours ago, mikeman5150 said:

During the height of Aerosmith's fame, they had people like Desmond Child and Diane Warren writing songs for them. Some people would consider that selling out. Don't want to miss a thing was Aerosmith's biggest hit and nobody in the band had a hand in writing it. I like Aerosmith regardless, but it seemed like they took the safe road at that time instead of trying to write their own tunes. I guess it would be like if sweet child o' mine or November rain were written by slick producers instead of the band. 

I don't think that working with a songwriter necessarily means you're selling out. They want to write great songs and if another songwriter can help them with that, then it shouldn't matter, and it shouldn't be seen as ''slick producers'' but just fellow songwriters. Personally I wouldn't do that myself if were in that situation, I think, but I don't see it as selling out either. In Aerosmith's case, I believe Steven en Joe are still responsible for the marjority of songs but they get help. Same thing with acts like Bon Jovi and Bryan Adams, they write their own songs but they have a Desmond Child or whoever come in to help them with some tunes. Funny enough Aerosmith's biggest hit in America is the one song that they didn't have any hand in... I'm sure that bugs them more than anyone else.

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5 hours ago, Len Cnut said:

Oh no, i just thought you meant like you've never walked around going 'im WELL into 'x''. Yknow, like walked around identifying as punk or a hip hop head, i misunderstood ya there.

it's ok i don't think i was making much sense, it was almost 3 a.m. for me :P

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On 3/27/2017 at 6:51 PM, ksks12 said:

Hello.

 I don't start a topic everyday but as a longtime fan I would like an opinion of a thesis I have regarding our band's popularity.

 

As some of older fans(btw I was 8 when AFD came out) might remember, GN'R was always something in between alternative and mainstream band ( talking about past SCOM single era, so 1988). Before they were PR'ed as a new, dangerous band (remember those early articles in UK's tabloids ).

Well let me get to the topic.

When GN'R really became the no.1 band( not just r'n'r band, but the BAND) in 1992, alternative bands were really out to get them (intended, yes).

But there was always something about them that kept them away of losing the integrity of a band that just didn't give a flying f...(again intended:)).

 

Eventough I considered nugnr as an Axl's solo project  and NEVER as an actual GN'R thing, I think that everyone involved in nugnr always knew that it was just a matter of time before the old lineup (or at least a part) would get back together. Don't get me wrong, I think CD is great, but in my mind, it's Axl' brilliant solo effort.

My point is. If you read Slash's interviews from 1996 when he acknowledged that GN'R in all its craziness is what it is and recent interviews from Stinson when he was surprised but not that surprised, and Bach's comments abot Axl telling him: never say never " I have come to conclusion that this band is one of the only bands who really, I mean really gave an all time "this is what you get " attitude to their fans and media in general.

My opinion is that Slash was always a part of GN'R in Axl's mind, but it's just needed time to resolve an issue or two. If it takes 20 years, well it takes 20 years. 

To get to my first point.GN'R could have sold out millions of times, but never did. Paradoxically most of the bands that made fun of them in early 90's sold out so badly and without even feeling  any shame of doing so.

The way Chris Cornell nowadays acknowledges Axl's attitude and support towards the bands that were trying to (or supposedly didn't try to) get in the spotlight says a lot.

 

Remember the movie Ben Affleck and Steven Tyler's daughter played in? Late 90's? Don't wanna miss a thing? Well GN'R would never do this kind of sh.t.

So my point is, we have waited and have only a few albums of our favorite band, but hell we like the band who at least artistically never sold out.

Axl band playing private parties and Las Vegas gigs doesn't count as a GN'R gig, in my point of view. It was a part of a process called GN'R.

 I don't expect new music, I hope they will tour for 2 years tops and that's it.

Please share your thoughts.

 

the fact that whatever band made fun of whatever was left of GNR when izzy left is completely irrelevant

gnr is popular because it was a great band

(it was the greatest ever in my opinion, but my opinion on that is also irrelevant. oh, and i allso think that it will be the best band ever again in the minute that izzy gets back and the aliens get out, but thats out of topic too)

gnr wrote great songs, recorded them really well, and for many years (1986-1991) the band was able to perform these songs live in the greatest level -- most of the time much better and lively than the studio versions.

that lasted 1986-1991

===

after that, axl slash and duff toured the world for 2 years as if they were GNR

they were not and they were very successfull.

Because they were part of it and because they were playing GNR songs -- and not Slash, Axl and Duff songs

And then they didnt do shit for 3 more years

===

after that, axl pretended for 20 years that he was GNR

he was not and he was somewhat successfull.

Because he was a part of it (the face, the voice) and because he was playing GNR songs -- and some Axl songs that very few people cared about

===

after that, axl, slash and duff are playing live all over the world as if they were GNR

again, they are not. again, they are very successfull.

Because they were part of it and because they are playing GNR songs -- and some Axl songs that very few people cared about

===

none of these non-GNR tours would have been half-sucessful if they were not playing GNR songs

its all about the songs and the people who write and perform them
 

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3 hours ago, ludurigan said:

the fact that whatever band made fun of whatever was left of GNR when izzy left is completely irrelevant

gnr is popular because it was a great band

(it was the greatest ever in my opinion, but my opinion on that is also irrelevant. oh, and i allso think that it will be the best band ever again in the minute that izzy gets back and the aliens get out, but thats out of topic too)

gnr wrote great songs, recorded them really well, and for many years (1986-1991) the band was able to perform these songs live in the greatest level -- most of the time much better and lively than the studio versions.

that lasted 1986-1991

===

after that, axl slash and duff toured the world for 2 years as if they were GNR

they were not and they were very successfull.

Because they were part of it and because they were playing GNR songs -- and not Slash, Axl and Duff songs

And then they didnt do shit for 3 more years

===

after that, axl pretended for 20 years that he was GNR

he was not and he was somewhat successfull.

Because he was a part of it (the face, the voice) and because he was playing GNR songs -- and some Axl songs that very few people cared about

===

after that, axl, slash and duff are playing live all over the world as if they were GNR

again, they are not. again, they are very successfull.

Because they were part of it and because they are playing GNR songs -- and some Axl songs that very few people cared about

===

none of these non-GNR tours would have been half-sucessful if they were not playing GNR songs

its all about the songs and the people who write and perform them
 

"As if they were GN'R"

So by your logic any band that has had classic eras and, in a lot of cases, classic and critically acclaimed albums which featured differing lineups doesn't count as the band? So hugely successful and popular albums and eras of bands such as: AC/DC, Metallica, Black Sabbath, Deep Purple, Iron Maiden, Alice in Chains, The Rolling Stones, Van Halen etc. Some of their most iconic and best work wasn't them? Just because the lineups were different?

That. Is fucking ridiculous.

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On 2017-03-28 at 6:30 PM, EvanG said:

You're sure you grew up in the 90s? Because you couldn't be more wrong. Aerosmith were at the height of their popularity in the mid 90s because of all those videos on MTV and they kept scoring hits throughout the rest of the 90s and even in the early 2000s. In fact, Aerosmith's biggest hit in America was in 1998 with that ballad movie song.

Ok so they hit the height in late 93 but within 2 years (or a year) it was over. The "don't wanna miss a thing" was not considered cool but then again I was a late teen by then so maybe they were "hip" ? By the new generation of Tweens coming of age. By then my generation saw them as sellout just like the 70s generation saw their 80s revival as selling out (cheesy videos/walk this way). So I guess it depends what was in vogue when you're 12-15.  (Personally I like aero early stuff and their cheesy 80s and Alicia Silverstone stuff)

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9 minutes ago, coolranchdressing! said:

Ok so they hit the height in late 93 but within 2 years (or a year) it was over. The "don't wanna miss a thing" was not considered cool but then again I was a late teen by then so maybe they were "hip" ? By the new generation of Tweens coming of age. By then my generation saw them as sellout just like the 70s generation saw their 80s revival as selling out (cheesy videos/walk this way). So I guess it depends what was in vogue when you're 12-15.  (Personally I like aero early stuff and their cheesy 80s and Alicia Silverstone stuff)

ugh i so dislike that they became a "ballads band". they had killer sounds before, Back in the Saddle Again, Last Child and Draw the line to name a few!

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On 3/28/2017 at 3:30 PM, EvanG said:

You're sure you grew up in the 90s? Because you couldn't be more wrong. Aerosmith were at the height of their popularity in the mid 90s because of all those videos on MTV and they kept scoring hits throughout the rest of the 90s and even in the early 2000s. In fact, Aerosmith's biggest hit in America was in 1998 with that ballad movie song.

Yeah, they were definitely relevant in the 90's. Those Alicia Silverstone songs put them on the map for 90's teens - I was introduced to them through those videos. The older teens were always watching those videos in my sports club. I was 15 when that Armageddon song came out and we were all listening to it in school. I don't know if it's a geographical thing, but I grew up in Cali and the kids who were into rock music were still listening to Nirvana, Pantera and Metallica or jumping into alt-metal bands and later nu-metal (shudder). Some were also fans of post-grunge bands like Bush and the punkers were listening to Green Day and Blink 182.

My earliest recollection of Guns is seeing a November Rain tape of my cousin's in '93 but I never heard about that band again until they started doing those VH1 specials like "I love the 80's" in '99/00. Maybe TSI turned off a lot of people from the band but nobody I knew was listening to them in school. My perception of Guns as a teen in the late 90's was "that cheesy 80's band". That later turned into a mystique toward the early 00's when they started to get that "legendary band" status. 

I still like all those 90's Aerosmith songs. :smiley-confused2:

 

Edited by RONIN
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