13 Reasons Why (Netflix Series)

[RussTCB]

My wife and I started watching this 2 days ago. Ripped through 12 episodes in 2 days and have the last one to watch tonight. Anyone else seen or heard of this?

 

[alfierose]

Yes I watched the trailer about a week ago, thought it looked good. Will be checking it out shortly.

[Jane M.]

The book was amazing so I'll be watching.

[soon]

Hadn't heard of it, thanks for posting.  Was scared to check if it was on Netflix canada as Ive been let down too many times,  but its here!

[tsinindy]

Damnit @RussTCB thanks for making me add another show to my list!

[RussTCB]

Finished it last night and liked it a great deal. It accomplished it's goal of making me think a little bit

[alfierose]

9 hours ago, RussTCB said:

Finished it last night and liked it a great deal. It accomplished it's goal of making me think a little bit

Watched 4 episodes so far and I'm quite enjoying it. I'm a bit conflicted as to whether we are supposed to find Hannah a sympathetic character or not and I keep feeling a bit frustrated by some of the character decisions.

I keep wanting to yell a the TV 'tell an adult for fucks sake!'. This is probably because I'm a forty year old watching teen angst. 

[RussTCB]

2 hours ago, alfierose said:

Watched 4 episodes so far and I'm quite enjoying it. I'm a bit conflicted as to whether we are supposed to find Hannah a sympathetic character or not and I keep feeling a bit frustrated by some of the character decisions.

I keep wanting to yell a the TV 'tell an adult for fucks sake!'. This is probably because I'm a forty year old watching teen angst. 

We felt the same way. I won't say any more for now, but after you've finished hit me up again and I'll share more thoughts. It's not like I can "spoil" anything per se, as you more or less know the ending when you start, but it's probably best for me to hold off until you've seen the whole thing.

[alfierose]

4 hours ago, RussTCB said:

We felt the same way. I won't say any more for now, but after you've finished hit me up again and I'll share more thoughts. It's not like I can "spoil" anything per se, as you more or less know the ending when you start, but it's probably best for me to hold off until you've seen the whole thing.

It won't take long, Ive watched another couple whilst ironing this morning (such a glamorous life). I'm not sure who wrote this, I read it's a YA novel adaptation, but I'm fairly confident the author really hated high school. 

[Jane M.]

I'm on episode 4. 

Thank god I'm not a teenager in this era of smartphones and social media. It's so incredibly annoying. 

That's it for now. Don't wanna spoil anything.

[willl]

Krystal and I finished watching this tonight, yet another great Netflix original  I've gone through so many great series in the last couple of years on netflix.... Narcos, Dexter, Orange is the New Black, Breaking Bad, Voyager, Prison Break.....

Another series which I secretly enjoyed was Pretty Little Liars but pretty sure thats made for teenage girls so it must never be repeated outside of this thread  

[alfierose]

@RussTCB

I've watched it all now, my thoughts are in the spoilers below. It was quite thought provoking by the end, it certainly ramped up through the episodes.

Spoiler

I'm sticking with what I said earlier about Hannah not being a totally sympathetic character, now I've seen the whole thing I certainly understand her POV more but she was just as frustrating if not more so than some of the other characters.

Her communication skills were pretty poor, worse than Clay's actually. She seemed to expect people to be mind readers when it came to some of the things she took offence to, the way she spoke to and humiliated Zach in the cafeteria which then led to him retaliating and being an arse to her, also her habit of telling people to leave her alone very forcefully and being pissed off when they did. In the bedroom party scene with Clay he did the right thing in a moral sense by leaving after making out with a girl who says stop and yells at you to get out. I feel bad that he went through such anxiety over his tape when by societies standards he behaved correctly. She also did this with Mr Porter, I do think he had more culpability overall but she gave him virtually no information to work from, although it's arguable whether she really wanted to be saved by that point.

Her decision to go to Bryce's party was stupid and probably deliberately self destructive. I read that in the book it was framed as being part of her downward spiral - she wanted things to get worse to validate her feelings of being someone that bad things happen to, a sort of nihilistic act. It was difficult to watch her make mistakes and misjudge things. 

Hannah's character was a really good portrayal of someone spiraling into depression and whilst she certainly told the truth about the major things that happened there's evidence that she was still somewhat of an unreliable narrator because her perception increasingly became skewed in day to day interactions.

I think the best character arc overall was Justin who went from a total douche to a fairly vulnerable person over the season. I'm not sure whether not protecting Jess from Bryce was totally forgivable in the end but I really understood his motivations, his life was clearly bottom of the barrel shitty.

For me the least sympathetic character (excluding Bryce who was a bit of a one dimensional villain in places) was Courtney, she went way beyond what was necessary to protect her secret which in the grand scheme wasn't the biggest deal considering her family and social circle. Along with Marcus she never reached the point of wanting to give Bryce up, preferring to protect him to save her own reputation.

I loved Clay who really didn't deserve what he went through, his biggest crime was being a bit socially inept and not listening to the tapes in full before jumping to conclusions. Although I get that was a bit of a plot device because really he was acting as the audience by doing that.

I wasn't sure about Tony, his character always felt a bit off somehow. There wasn't much evidence that he knew Hannah well enough to go to the lengths he did and by making him some sort of (unhelpful) Yoda character he didn't ring true as a teenager who was part of the school scene.

I thought it was clever how they partly masked the signs of Alex being suicidal alongside the school's campaign for suicidal signs awareness. I did guess early on after the pool thing that something might happen to him and also the convo he had with his Dad who was cleaning the gun. I remembered the screenwriting adage of never show a gun in the first act if it's not going to be fired by the third act, I wasn't totally sure it was going to be Alex but I guessed it would end with another suicide.

It seems like it's set up for a second season, will be interesting to see how they tackle that because it will be beyond the original scope of the book. I'm guessing it will be around the trial or aftermath and Tyler who looks like he's heading into shooter territory, which doesn't surprise me because despite the bullying he suffered he never really seemed to acknowledge that the stalking behaviours were wrong.

 

[RussTCB]

18 hours ago, alfierose said:

@RussTCB

I've watched it all now, my thoughts are in the spoilers below. It was quite thought provoking by the end, it certainly ramped up through the episodes.

  Reveal hidden contents

I'm sticking with what I said earlier about Hannah not being a totally sympathetic character, now I've seen the whole thing I certainly understand her POV more but she was just as frustrating if not more so than some of the other characters.

Her communication skills were pretty poor, worse than Clay's actually. She seemed to expect people to be mind readers when it came to some of the things she took offence to, the way she spoke to and humiliated Zach in the cafeteria which then led to him retaliating and being an arse to her, also her habit of telling people to leave her alone very forcefully and being pissed off when they did. In the bedroom party scene with Clay he did the right thing in a moral sense by leaving after making out with a girl who says stop and yells at you to get out. I feel bad that he went through such anxiety over his tape when by societies standards he behaved correctly. She also did this with Mr Porter, I do think he had more culpability overall but she gave him virtually no information to work from, although it's arguable whether she really wanted to be saved by that point.

Her decision to go to Bryce's party was stupid and probably deliberately self destructive. I read that in the book it was framed as being part of her downward spiral - she wanted things to get worse to validate her feelings of being someone that bad things happen to, a sort of nihilistic act. It was difficult to watch her make mistakes and misjudge things. 

Hannah's character was a really good portrayal of someone spiraling into depression and whilst she certainly told the truth about the major things that happened there's evidence that she was still somewhat of an unreliable narrator because her perception increasingly became skewed in day to day interactions.

I think the best character arc overall was Justin who went from a total douche to a fairly vulnerable person over the season. I'm not sure whether not protecting Jess from Bryce was totally forgivable in the end but I really understood his motivations, his life was clearly bottom of the barrel shitty.

For me the least sympathetic character (excluding Bryce who was a bit of a one dimensional villain in places) was Courtney, she went way beyond what was necessary to protect her secret which in the grand scheme wasn't the biggest deal considering her family and social circle. Along with Marcus she never reached the point of wanting to give Bryce up, preferring to protect him to save her own reputation.

I loved Clay who really didn't deserve what he went through, his biggest crime was being a bit socially inept and not listening to the tapes in full before jumping to conclusions. Although I get that was a bit of a plot device because really he was acting as the audience by doing that.

I wasn't sure about Tony, his character always felt a bit off somehow. There wasn't much evidence that he knew Hannah well enough to go to the lengths he did and by making him some sort of (unhelpful) Yoda character he didn't ring true as a teenager who was part of the school scene.

I thought it was clever how they partly masked the signs of Alex being suicidal alongside the school's campaign for suicidal signs awareness. I did guess early on after the pool thing that something might happen to him and also the convo he had with his Dad who was cleaning the gun. I remembered the screenwriting adage of never show a gun in the first act if it's not going to be fired by the third act, I wasn't totally sure it was going to be Alex but I guessed it would end with another suicide.

It seems like it's set up for a second season, will be interesting to see how they tackle that because it will be beyond the original scope of the book. I'm guessing it will be around the trial or aftermath and Tyler who looks like he's heading into shooter territory, which doesn't surprise me because despite the bullying he suffered he never really seemed to acknowledge that the stalking behaviours were wrong.

 

I totally agree with all points on Tony, Justin, Hannah and Alex. Again, not sure if this is really a "spoiler" but I'll use the tag anyway:

 

Spoiler

We completely agree on Hannah. By the time they showed the scene of her in the bathtub, my wife was crying and I wasn't going to say anything because I kinda felt guilty that I was more mad at Hannah then anything. Then my wife said "I'm so mad at her" out loud and a discussion ensued. We both felt the same way you did; a lot of what happened was on her. Did terrible, awful things happen to her? Yes, of course. However, she is completely responsible for not talking to anyway about anything. I saw no reason why she wouldn't feel comfortable talking to her parents about certain things. The only thing they showed her parents being unreasonable about was when she lost the money and even that felt tacked on. It most certainly wouldn't be a reason why she wouldn't talk to them about anything ever. I hope the intent was to make you conflicted about Hannah, otherwise it's just shitty writing lol.

As for Alex; if you ask me, he has a LOT more reasons to end up the way he did from what we saw. He seemed like a character that was trying to make the best of an awful situation and still couldn't make it work. On top of all of that, it would appear he wouldn't be doing what he did "just for attention" as he saw the aftermath for Hannah and it wasn't pretty. Seems like his was a more concentrated choice, made from pure pain after having to try many different solutions.

 

[alfierose]

3 hours ago, RussTCB said:

I totally agree with all points on Tony, Justin, Hannah and Alex. Again, not sure if this is really a "spoiler" but I'll use the tag anyway:

 

  Hide contents

We completely agree on Hannah. By the time they showed the scene of her in the bathtub, my wife was crying and I wasn't going to say anything because I kinda felt guilty that I was more mad at Hannah then anything. Then my wife said "I'm so mad at her" out loud and a discussion ensued. We both felt the same way you did; a lot of what happened was on her. Did terrible, awful things happen to her? Yes, of course. However, she is completely responsible for not talking to anyway about anything. I saw no reason why she wouldn't feel comfortable talking to her parents about certain things. The only thing they showed her parents being unreasonable about was when she lost the money and even that felt tacked on. It most certainly wouldn't be a reason why she wouldn't talk to them about anything ever. I hope the intent was to make you conflicted about Hannah, otherwise it's just shitty writing lol.

As for Alex; if you ask me, he has a LOT more reasons to end up the way he did from what we saw. He seemed like a character that was trying to make the best of an awful situation and still couldn't make it work. On top of all of that, it would appear he wouldn't be doing what he did "just for attention" as he saw the aftermath for Hannah and it wasn't pretty. Seems like his was a more concentrated choice, made from pure pain after having to try many different solutions.

 

Spoiler

The main thing with Alex seemed to be his guilt over Hannah's insistence that he was the one who started the cascade of events due to dating Jess and the childish list. Really though as teenage incidents go on their own are fairly minor things. He also seemed to be uncomfortable with the environment created by his father and elder brother.

I have to say I was pretty sure Alex was gay in the first 2 episodes he was in so was a bit surprised when he got with Jess.  I saw on the reddit page for this show he is IRL and is dating the actor who plays Justin so I guess this explains my initial hunch!

I think my reaction to Hannah is slightly age based, I'm sure I would have felt differently watching this as a teen - I remember being obsessed with Laura Palmer from Twin Peaks at age 15 in a bit of a drama queen way. 

 

[toroymoi]

You're not supposed to be totally on one side about any character (except for Bryce, we should all hate Bryce). You have to remember these are teens, and teens say and do stupid things. Hannah had been tormented a great deal by her classmates, so even when one was nice to her a part of herself didn't trust that and self-sabotaged. As someone who just left my teens a couple of years ago, I do feel as though this hits a bit closer to home for me than some of the older people in this thread (no offence). I grew up in the age of FB, phones and social media and it's truly unexplainable how difficult isolation amongst constant interaction is inside the mind of a teen; especially when that's heightened even more by social media and phones. I also think the idea that "parents won't understand" is especially prevalent when there's such a gap in terms of their experience at school vs your own. I felt like my mother wouldn't understand anything because she didn't grow up with the mass amount of technology I did, so she wouldn't get how insidious everything can get because their view is quite shallow in comparison to the actual experience of the modern teen.

You can say "she should've told an adult/her parents", and that seems simple but the human mind doesn't work that way (especially when it's one of a teenager).

Spoiler

Not to mention, we see that she did have some hope in Mr. Porter. An impartial and what she perceived to be, fair-minded person. Yet when she was confused and worried about what had happened to her, he suggested she simply forget and move on. Even if she couldn't fully formulate her thoughts about what Bryce did, the best advice is not to just "move on".

The show wasn't attempting to blame one specific person, it was showing how negative behaviours can impact someone especially hard when they're already struggling. I said this to a friend of mine, that the show isn't portraying suicide as a solution, but telling people to not act in a way that may lead someone to think of it as one. 

Edited April 9, 2017 by toroymoi

[alfierose]

19 hours ago, toroymoi said:

As someone who just left my teens a couple of years ago, I do feel as though this hits a bit closer to home for me than some of the older people in this thread (no offence)

Oh I totally agree, I did write somewhere above that I know I would feel differently about this if I was younger. One of the few  benefits of getting older is being able to look back on past experiences with a more rational take on how they happened. Perhaps not for everyone but I generally find it to be so.

Wouldn't mind my teenage body back though. 

[Jane M.]

I went on a marathon this afternoon and finally finished. 

I feel the same as @RussTCB and @alfierose. It's hard to try to help someone when in the eyes of that person you can't do anything right. That's Hannah. 

My heart goes to Clay. The fact that he was on those tapes without doing anything wrong (according to Hannah) is some passive-agressive bullshit. He didn't deserve it. 

The book is way better. 

Justin and Alex are dating in real life? Good. Cute couple alert right there. 

[L'HopitalsRule]

On 4/9/2017 at 4:46 PM, Jane M. said:

I went on a marathon this afternoon and finally finished. 

I feel the same as @RussTCB and @alfierose. It's hard to try to help someone when in the eyes of that person you can't do anything right. That's Hannah. 

My heart goes to Clay. The fact that he was on those tapes without doing anything wrong (according to Hannah) is some passive-agressive bullshit. He didn't deserve it. 

The book is way better. 

Justin and Alex are dating in real life? Good. Cute couple alert right there. 

Oh man the book that the show is based on was really popular a loong time ago. I always thought the whole franchise was a very unrealistic depiction of suicide honestly. 

I don't have netflix, just read the book. 

[Jane M.]

Can't wait!

[RussTCB]

12 hours ago, Jane M. said:

Can't wait!

My wife told me about that yesterday. I'm open to it. Could be interesting to see where they take it!

[tsinindy]

3 hours ago, RussTCB said:

My wife told me about that yesterday. I'm open to it. Could be interesting to see where they take it!

Oh geeze...why bother?  The first season was garbage.  Campy writing and dialog.  The only redeeming quality for this show was the directing, especially the minor change in hairstyles and appearances that helped the watcher understand if things were happening in past and present.

otheewise, similar to Stranger Things this really isn't a quality show that relied on gimmicks and word of mouth to gain a reputation, but once you peel the layers back all that is revealed is a rotten onion.

[RussTCB]

2 hours ago, tsinindy said:

Oh geeze...why bother?  The first season was garbage.  Campy writing and dialog.  The only redeeming quality for this show was the directing, especially the minor change in hairstyles and appearances that helped the watcher understand if things were happening in past and present.

otheewise, similar to Stranger Things this really isn't a quality show that relied on gimmicks and word of mouth to gain a reputation, but once you peel the layers back all that is revealed is a rotten onion.

Nah...........I liked it lol.

I mean this in a good way but a lot of you are far pickier about TV and films than I am. I'm a very "popcorn movie goer" if you will. I don't look too deeply into things and I've never seen many movies and TV shows most people would think it's a crime not to have seen. If I'm slightly entertained for the duration of something, than it's good enough for me as music is my real passion. As I said, I meant that in a good way. I respect the shit out of many peoples thoughts on TV & film here. I just don't possess the ability to go heads up in a discussion, so I usually just stick with "I liked it" or "I didn't like it" lol

[john lennon]

Watched 2 episodes, didn't get into it.

Then again it's not exactly a secret my taste in tv is pure shit. I like Trailer Park Boys, Criminal Minds, Big Bang Theory, and Family Guy. 

[Jane M.]

I need a second season. 

I need to know more about Justin, what happens to Jessica and Alex, Bryce (fucking asshole) and Mr. Porter, the lawsuit...so many questions.

[Eric Cantona]

Absolutely shit, watched the whole thing due to boredom while I was sick.

The message is unclear, Hannah's depression isn't even a factor just before the suicide even. Bad writing for the most part and sketchy dialogue.

I feel like this show had some serious potential, with the message being delivered and all, but became not very good due to bad writing and characters.