Mr. Buckethead vs Bumblefoot on Chinese Democracy

[RONIN]

21 minutes ago, BorderlineCrazy said:

I love the If The World acoustic solos on the 2nd part. I find the song to be a massive piece of shit but Bucket's solos are beyond beautiful.

 

 

Beautiful. Axl really wasted his talents. Such a shame. But I'm grateful for what we got. 

Buckethead was the best thing about the Nu Guns era.

[Sosso]

5 minutes ago, RONIN said:

Beautiful. Axl really wasted his talents. Such a shame. But I'm grateful for what we got. 

Buckethead was the best thing about the Nu Guns era.

The 2002 line-up had a lot of potential. It could have been something like a rebirth and a new start for GN'R. It turned out as a failure.

[PsychoKiss344]

18 minutes ago, Sosso said:

The 2002 line-up had a lot of potential. It could have been something like a rebirth and a new start for GN'R. It turned out as a failure.

Bucket, Fortus, Stinson and Brain.

Could have been so great 

[Sosso]

3 minutes ago, PsychoKiss344 said:

Bucket, Fortus, Stinson and Brain.

Could have been so great 

Don't forget Robin! He and Bucket build a killer lead guitar duo. And Fortus, Stinson and Brain build a perfect rhythm section for that line-up.

[PsychoKiss344]

1 minute ago, Sosso said:

Don't forget Robin! He and Bucket build a killer lead guitar duo. And Fortus, Stinson and Brain build a perfect rhythm section for that line-up.

Yup!

If they had released Chinese in 2002 and had a solid tour who knows what could have happened.

[Sosso]

3 minutes ago, PsychoKiss344 said:

Yup!

If they had released Chinese in 2002 and had a solid tour who knows what could have happened.

Probably the release of CD II and the remix album.

[ToonGuns]

3 hours ago, cqleonardo said:

I did a huuuuge compilation about CD, is sitting on my computer, has everything besides the official album version, all the leaks, all the 2013, various live versions of everything.... If anyone wants, hit me up

can you list all the versions of each song? I know of the '99 leaks, the '04 leaks, the antiquiet leaks (aka the '07 leaks I think) and the more recent stuff (bitw etc)... Is there more? Which ones are the skewrl leaks?

Anyway, on point: Bucket all day long for me. Him and Axl sounded epic together. Best thing about CD. I hope the beavan '02 version gets a release at some point.

[J Dog]

Bucket all day. I don't mind BBF though, I like him. I sorta question his part on IRS a little.

And 100% agree about the early 2000s lineup was THE nugnr and Axl's last chance at real success with a new band.

[Rovim]

Bucket is just something else. I love what Bumble did in Chinese too. But Bucket did mean solos like I.R.S, concise coolness with If The World, the Page thing with Twat outro, and lyrical as fuck like the Sorry solo, metal moments like in Better's rocking bridge, cinematic background like Madagascar, and the call and answer with Axl's vocals in SOD outro.

I feel like he was a much better fit for what Axl was trying to do, but Robin was there before and also was a great fit in the studio, so now I look at it like they completed each other stylistically.

The idea was a layered album anyway, and Bumble got a chance to show his skills and add parts that made the whole thing sound more fluid and more versatile tonally.

I especially enjoy his Shackler's work, Chinese rhythm, Catcher, SOD, and Sorry. Better solo on Riad compared to Bucket's old one in the leak.

His guitar tone is not as good of a fit for Guns as Robin's and Bucket's tone and he's not as melodic too. But the contrast between the styles is part of the magic of Chinese for me.

Edited April 7, 2017 by Rovim

[Brownstone drum]

Like both of their contributions to CD, Bucket probably had the best solos, but I think Bumbles Shacklers and Catcher solos sounded much better live, maybe more the way he originally did them before the cut and paste tinkering?

[Caught_in_a_Coma]

On 4/5/2017 at 9:45 PM, cqleonardo said:

I'll go with Bucket because he wrote one of the most beautiful pieces of music in the world to me, the TWAT solo, after all these years I still get goosebumps everytime I listen to it, is like the first time over and over again

I would give two fingers to hear the 2002 version of the whole thing, man, I believe that sounds great

It's such an amazing solo

[RONIN]

My favorite Bucket contributions to Chinese Democracy are the If the World solos, particularly the flamenco outro and the David Gilmour-esque solo on Sorry. He's just in a class of his own. 

To give Bumble his kudos, his interpretation of Don't Cry in Lisboa back in 2006 was amazing. I loved what he did with that song. 

[Rovim]

9 hours ago, RONIN said:

My favorite Bucket contributions to Chinese Democracy are the If the World solos, particularly the flamenco outro and the David Gilmour-esque solo on Sorry. He's just in a class of his own. 

To give Bumble his kudos, his interpretation of Don't Cry in Lisboa back in 2006 was amazing. I loved what he did with that song. 

Chinese contains some killer guitar solos. So many classics. Robin's and Bucket's best Chinese solos rival in quality a lot of great Slash solos for me. It's in the same ballpark at least.

Bucket brought in solos for If The World, Twat, I.R.S, Sorry. I consider those to be his best 4 Chinese solos. (but there are other favorites )

And Robin's best (for me) with Better, SOD, Twat, This I Love. 8 solos that don't tarnish legacies. Plus Bumble's 2 it's a Bumblefucked Peanut butter and jelly sandwich with cheese.

I believe Chinese could have been a really interesting album with just Robin doing all the solos, or just Bucket, but no matter how talented the guitar player is, in an album with a bunch of different styles, you could be Slash and not come up with the best idea for that specific song. So I think that was an advantage for Axl in the studio while working on Chinese.

Not only copy/pasting notes sometimes, but trying to find the right idea for a specific song, no matter who came up with it. Like for example, Robin wrote Better, it was his song and I think Bucket was already there but there was still no chorus.

Fortus was the one who added that part. And even with all of Bucket's talent and ideas, Chinese did sound mechanical just like Bumble said, cause that's part of Bucket's style. (and Robin's in part ) So here, Bumble was appropriate for Gn'R. He made it more sleazy with his rhythm work. He saw what was missing and was able to fill the gaps.

Robin's choppy bluesy lyrical style of playing was the perfect match for Bucket's and Bumble's fluidity of shred and all 3 players have unique quirks that give character to the whole thing. Axl kinda trying to cover all the Slash bases but letting each player bring their own style into it and then choosing what works best for the tune.

Going forward, I'd like Axl to give Slash a chance to record and top everything he wants to play on, but if it's not as good as what Robin, Bucket, and Bumble came up with, find a way to use the best solos and what fits best to the tune regardless of who's responsible.

I think Axl's intention is to use some CD ll material, and with Robin's comment about unreleased guitar moments, I think if there are more unreleased AAA solos like Robin's Better and Bucket's If the World and Twat, it should be used if the tune it's on is still considered to be a part of the album.

 

Edited April 8, 2017 by Rovim

[AXL_N_DIZZY]

Bucket has some truly stand out solos on Chinese as well as 3 song-writing credits (second only to Tobias aside from Axl)- making him IMHO among the most meaningful artistic contributors on the record and Axl's vision for a "post-Slash" Guns. Bumble on the other hand performs on every track and between his virtuoso playing and backing vocals ranks among the most talented performers to take the stage with Guns IMHO. I also like Bumble's solo material- though I think his style is/was ultimately a little too "tongue in cheek" to ever truly work for Guns...

Anyway- I do think Guns is on its strongest footing with Slash on lead (best overall package of chops, charisma, track record, star power, etc.)- but I think Bucket/Bumble are high quality in their own ways and made important contributions in the Chinese-era. Dig 'em both!

Edited April 8, 2017 by AXL_N_DIZZY

[Rovim]

13 minutes ago, AXL_N_DIZZY said:

Bucket has some truly stand out solos on Chinese as well as 3 song-writing credits (second only to Tobias aside from Axl)- making him IMHO among the most meaningful artistic contributors on the record and Axl's vision for a "post-Slash" Guns. Bumble on the other hand performs on every track and between his virtuoso playing and backing vocals ranks among the most talented performers to take the stage with Guns IMHO. I also like Bumble's solo material- though I think his style is/was ultimately a little too "tongue in cheek" to ever truly work for Guns...

Anyway- I do think Guns is on its strongest footing with Slash on lead (best overall package of chops, charisma, track record, star power, etc.)- but I think Bucket/Bumble are high quality in their own ways and made important contributions in the Chinese-era. Dig 'em both!

I don't know what's more exciting to me: another Guns album with just Slash and friends, or if you think about it, if Axl wants to do it he can create a super guitar album that celebrates fine playing and versatility.

If it's a trilogy it becomes more realistic to include 'em all. The best solos from Slash, Bucket, Robin, and Fortus. (I'd want Bumble too but my guess is Axl won't go for it just like he won't go for clean vocals again mostly)

With some Izzy tunes and the base of it being Slash and Fortus doing most rhythm and most of the riffs.

Edited April 8, 2017 by Rovim

[AXL_N_DIZZY]

26 minutes ago, Rovim said:

I don't know what's more exciting to me: another Guns album with just Slash and friends, or if you think about it, if Axl wants to do it he can create a super guitar album that celebrates fine playing and versatility.

If it's a trilogy it becomes more realistic to include 'em all. The best solos from Slash, Bucket, Robin, and Fortus. (I'd want Bumble too but my guess is Axl won't go for it just like he won't go for clean vocals again mostly)

With some Izzy tunes and the base of it being Slash and Fortus doing most rhythm and most of the riffs.

Yeah that would be awesome. As it is- whether it 100% worked as a "Guns" record for people (did for me!) or not- Chinese is a phenomenal "guitar" record (styles, virtuosity, feeling, etc) itself IMHO. Would love to see Axl/Guns press that envelope/angle even further on a future release (with as you say major input from Slash & Fortus this time out)...

[auad]

On Friday, April 07, 2017 at 8:39 AM, BorderlineCrazy said:

I love the If The World acoustic solos on the 2nd part. I find the song to be a massive piece of shit but Bucket's solos are beyond beautiful.

 

 

Great video!

✌

[Gackt]

 

[AlterL]

On Thursday, April 06, 2017 at 2:47 PM, cqleonardo said:

I did a huuuuge compilation about CD, is sitting on my computer, has everything besides the official album version, all the leaks, all the 2013, various live versions of everything.... If anyone wants, hit me up

Please

[cqleonardo]

On 06/04/2017 at 5:39 PM, BorderlineCrazy said:

I love the If The World acoustic solos on the 2nd part. I find the song to be a massive piece of shit but Bucket's solos are beyond beautiful.

 

 

I forgot about this one, damn, goosebumps right now...

[RONIN]

Has anyone heard the TWAT leak (no pun intended) where they get rid of that ridiculous opening and closing choir sound from the album version? Exact same song just minus the choir part - so much better.

It's random flourishes like that which were completely unnecessary that makes the case that the more time went on, the more Axl was throwing in anything and everything into the songs to make them sound more epic. It really strengthens the argument some people here make about the album probably being stronger in '99 or '01 rather than the end product we got.

Had they kept the '01 date, we would have had more Buckethead contributions most likely. There was a forum member here back in the day who had connections to the Bucket camp -- he always mentioned how so many of the riffs Bucket gave to Axl ended up on the cutting room floor in the final product. He also mentioned how Bucket felt betrayed by Axl and does not acknowledge his time in the band even though he was a big fan of Axl and Gnr in the beginning. Part of the hard feelings also goes back to Axl being in control of these unused Buckethead riffs which will probably forever sit in the vault.

Edited April 11, 2017 by RONIN

[themadcaplaughs]

10 minutes ago, RONIN said:

Has anyone heard the TWAT leak (no pun intended) where they get rid of that ridiculous opening and closing choir sound from the album version? Exact same song just minus the choir part - so much better.

It's random flourishes like that which were completely unnecessary that makes the case that the more time went on, the more Axl was throwing in anything and everything into the songs to make them sound more epic. It really strengthens the argument some people here make about the album probably being stronger in '99 or '01 rather than the end product we got.

Had they kept the '01 date, we would have had more Buckethead contributions most likely. There was a forum member here back in the day who had connections to the Bucket camp -- he always mentioned how so many of the riffs Bucket gave to Axl ended up on the cutting room floor in the final product. He also mentioned how Bucket felt betrayed by Axl and does not acknowledge his time in the band even though he was a big fan of Axl and Gnr in the beginning. Part of the hard feelings also goes back to Axl being in control of these unused Buckethead riffs which will probably forever sit in the vault.

There may be unused Buckethead riffs and songs that were meant for later albums, but we got the vast majority of the stuff he recorded for Chinese Democracy. 

[Mendez]

13 minutes ago, themadcaplaughs said:

There may be unused Buckethead riffs and songs that were meant for later albums, but we got the vast majority of the stuff he recorded for Chinese Democracy. 

Well we don't really know that. (Unless you know something we don't)

[Gackt]

11 hours ago, Mendez said:

Well we don't really know that. (Unless you know something we don't)

You missed the key term may 

Axl's sitting on an obvious stockpile of recordings from most of his session musicians, Bucket has some amount of accumulation in the unreleased bin because of unused solos popping up in leaks.

 

11 hours ago, RONIN said:

Had they kept the '01 date, we would have had more Buckethead contributions most likely. There was a forum member here back in the day who had connections to the Bucket camp -- he always mentioned how so many of the riffs Bucket gave to Axl ended up on the cutting room floor in the final product. He also mentioned how Bucket felt betrayed by Axl and does not acknowledge his time in the band even though he was a big fan of Axl and Gnr in the beginning. Part of the hard feelings also goes back to Axl being in control of these unused Buckethead riffs which will probably forever sit in the vault.

There were a lot of factors that contributed to Bucket's departure from the band, to this day you'll still get the cold shoulder and zero acknowledgement if you try to bring up anything related to Guns N' Roses or Axl Rose to him.  Don't even bother pondering the thought of having him sign a copy of Chinese Democracy. 

[Mendez]

28 minutes ago, Gackt said:

You missed the key term may 

Axl's sitting on an obvious stockpile of recordings from most of his session musicians, Bucket has some amount of accumulation in the unreleased bin because of unused solos popping up in leaks.

I was more referring to the last part of his post, that we already got the vast majority of Buckets recordings. Guess I should've quoted only that lol. I meant we don't really know if we already got most of Buckets contributions already, as we haven't heard any other songs