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Will anybody else be seriously bummed if the classic 5 doesn't regroup for AFD's 30th anniversary?


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52 minutes ago, wasted said:

Yet most of the hits n classics are from the AFD lineup? I did the math once. 

But I get it, it's about perception. Izzy wrote YCBM, Don't Cry, Patience, Brownstone, Nightrain, Out ta get me, Used to love her etc. but nobody nose (sic). 

 

Yeah. I think "perception" is the key term here. I am a die-hard fan since '88 (15-17 during the UYI Tour, etc.)- and I don't think I actually ever focused on songwriting credits until the split and the whole Axl v. Slash debates went full tilt. Frankly- I think for most everyone- 87-93 was all about who the big stars on MTV were (Axl & Slash) and who played on all the records and stuck around for the epic tour (Duff).

I suppose it should also be said that the Illusions line-up(s) were in a sense also touring Appetite- which was only a couple years out from peak popularity as well and had never been given headliner arena/stadium treatment. Crazy just how freaking massive everything about that time was...

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1 minute ago, AXL_N_DIZZY said:

Yeah. I think "perception" is the key term here. I am a die-hard fan since '88 (15-17 during the UYI Tour, etc.)- and I don't think I actually ever focused on songwriting credits until the split and the whole Axl v. Slash debates went full tilt. Frankly- I think for most everyone- 87-93 was all about who the big stars on MTV were (Axl & Slash) and who played on all the records and stuck around for the epic tour (Duff).

I suppose it should also be said that the Illusions line-up(s) were in a sense also touring Appetite- which was only a couple years out from peak popularity as well and had never been given headliner arena/stadium treatment. Crazy just how freaking massive everything about that time was...

Yeah I see it as the reunion of the success of the UYI era. Business is about leverage and Izzy and Steven didn't have much. The promoters put the money up for Axl and Slash, Duff was the mediator. 

GNR went beyond rock and metal fans in the UYI era. They had the audience U2 has now for a second there. 80s celebrities see GNR that way, like the coolest band, like Tarantino and Star Wars. But time moves on. 

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19 hours ago, janrichmond said:

I am so loving the new hippy @Tom-Ass love you maaan! :hug:

I LOVE Guns N' Fucking Roses. I am thrilled they are "back" to some extent.  There are things that suck about the band right now and it pisses me off because I want them to be better.  But there are still some very positive things about about what is going on and those need to be recognized too. While far from perfect, the band is in a much better state than it has been in over 20 years...... Hopefully they continue in that trend..

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19 hours ago, FuriousStyles said:

Axl leveraged enough power over the last 25 years that he is in a position to do what he wants.

If the AFD5 reunites, it's because he wanted it to happen.

If they don't, it's because he didn't want it to happen.

The End.

Yes, Axl has the power but no matter what anyone says, if Axl doesn't do at least one show and give back to the fans that gave him millions of dollars, he's a piece of shit plain and simple, no arguments.

The fans want it, the fans gave Axl his life, without them Axl would be working a desk job or at Mcdonalds. Steven knows this and will do anything for the fans. Izzy deserves equal pay because he wrote many of the songs. Adler doesn't care about the money so whatever they pay him will be fine. Axl, Slash and Duff have completely sold out and have become only in it for he money and not for the love and respect of the fans losing my respect for them completely. They aren't the band or the people they once were. Especially screwing Steven over again just recently by telling him he was part of it then 2 weeks prior to the show firing him again. Although he thinks he is Axl is not a god and is the most out of shape member of the band. I'd rather see the original 4 minus Axl with a different singer, provided it's not Myles Kennedy than seeing what the band is now. That's what I wish they would do, fire Axl hire a new singer and make a new album and tour and say fuck Axl no one needs him and the tour would be just as successful if not more succesful than Not in This Lifetime. They never will because they don't want to piss Axl off but they should cause he deserves it. Axl would be in the trash bin at that point and deserves to be there, that would be the end of him. I would have never said this until I read Stevens interview where he said he was fired 2 weeks before the tour.

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23 hours ago, AlexC said:

some of the best songs on UYI were written without any Izzy input

 

izzy wrote, helped to write or AT LEAST helped to arrange all of the songs on every GNR album

do you think izzy didnt help to arrange and put together coma or november rain?

the only song on a Guns n Roses album that izzy had nothing to do with was my world -- but that really is an axl solo song

(and obviously spaghetti where his guitar apparently were erased)

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11 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

I will never understand people that think an artist owes them anything at all. GN'R (or any band for that matter) has given you what you're owed against what you paid them. Just because you bought a bunch of GN'R albums and/or concert tickets doesn't mean they owe you anything else at all. 

Maybe "owe" is the wrong word. Think of it more like a business arrangement. Artist provides art to fans and gets richly rewarded. Artist ignores fans or does whatever they think is right for them - fans become apathetic and fail to support Artist. End result = 2002 GnR tour and Chinese Democracy sales numbers.

From a purely business standpoint, you have to do fan service. Even gargantuan acts will see their fanbases erode fast if they don't do this. You're never too big to fail, especially these days.

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2 minutes ago, ludurigan said:

izzy wrote, helped to write or AT LEAST helped to arrange all of the songs on every GNR album

do you think izzy didnt help to arrange and put together coma or november rain?

the only song on a Guns n Roses album that izzy had nothing to do with was my world -- but that really is an axl solo song

(and obviously spaghetti where his guitar apparently were erased)

Those UYI credits are a mess. Slash created Locomotive in a drug stupor when he was crashing at Izzy's house. Izzy is not on the final credits for the song. Did Izzy just watch Slash jam it out, was he not there the entire time? Who knows.

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Just now, RONIN said:

Maybe "owe" is the wrong word. Think of it more like a business arrangement. Artist provides art to fans and gets richly rewarded. Artist ignores fans or does whatever they think is right for them - fans become apathetic and fail to support Artist. End result = 2002 GnR tour and Chinese Democracy sales numbers.

From a purely business standpoint, you have to do fan service. Even gargantuan acts will see their fanbases erode fast if they don't do this. You're never too big to fail, especially these days.

I totally get that aspect of it. I mean... I saw GN'R in a 5000 seater in Detroit in 2012 that wasn't even sold out. Then I saw them 2 years later, literally across the street, at a sold out show in a 65,000 seat stadium. Difference between the show attendance was that they were doing what the fans wanted for the second one.

My point is that they don't "owe" that to us or anyone else. When you buy a CD, they owe you the ability to listen to the album you bought. Same thing with a concert ticket. Etc Etc. The user I quoted was making it sound as if GN'R owes their fans an AFD5 show just because the fans made them millionaires. 

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2 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

I totally get that aspect of it. I mean... I saw GN'R in a 5000 seater in Detroit in 2012 that wasn't even sold out. Then I saw them 2 years later, literally across the street, at a sold out show in a 65,000 seat stadium. Difference between the show attendance was that they were doing what the fans wanted for the second one.

My point is that they don't "owe" that to us or anyone else. When you buy a CD, they owe you the ability to listen to the album you bought. Same thing with a concert ticket. Etc Etc. The user I quoted was making it sound as if GN'R owes their fans an AFD5 show just because the fans made them millionaires. 

Yeah - I think we're on the same page there. I mean if you bought their album - you were adequately compensated with their music. If you paid to see them live, you got a show in return. If you're buying merchandise - you get the picture. 

When I click on a youtube video of GnR, I'm getting the satisfaction of listening to them. It's a mutual exchange. 

Maybe the intention behind that post was more about "respect" and whether the fanbase is getting that from the artist. It's subjective I suppose, but keeping your word, showing up on time for a gig, keeping the lines of communication open and letting the fans participate in the process somehow -- these gestures could be considered being respectful to the fans and engendering a ton of good will. If the band doesn't care or feel like doing it, they're definitely entitled - they don't owe us "respect". But - the blowback could be painful as Axl saw in 2002. This band definitely needs to take a page from other mega-acts like U2 and Coldplay when it comes to respecting the fans. 

And to be fair, NITL is a step in the right direction. Honesty it's a quantum leap from the old days. 

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3 minutes ago, RONIN said:

Those UYI credits are a mess. Slash created Locomotive in a drug stupor when he was crashing at Izzy's house. Izzy is not on the final credits for the song. Did Izzy just watch Slash jam it out, was he not there the entire time? Who knows.

Slash wrote in his book that he wrote Locomotive with Izzy. Period.

Izzy said that the band actually recorded the illusion songs three different times (probably 1989-1990). the "last/definitive" recordings that took place in 1990-1991 were done quickly in about 30 days with matt sorum.

Steven has rehearsed and likely recorded 10 or 15 songs that ended up on the illusion albums.

then there were endless "sessions" (Chicago, LA, and many more that we dont know exactly where/when) previously to the 30-days recording with Matt

The band had time to rehearse and arrange these songs on studio for who knows how many sessions.

its very likely that izzy was there on most of these sessions and its very likely that he helped arrange all the songs that ended up on the illusion albums -- even those he didnt really had a hand on writing like november rain or coma

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13 hours ago, wasted said:

No point in criticizing the current line up, maybe once they make bank they will be relaxed enough to do the dangerous tour with Izzy/Steven. It's a way to re-up the reunion tour. 

And if they NEVER release new music, then what's the point of all of this? Easy..cheap cash grab, and a fight over what's mine so screw your income :lol:

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23 hours ago, AlexC said:

Just because Izzy was essential to the success of Appetite doesn't mean that they can't create an amazing album without him. I mean some of the best songs on UYI were written without any Izzy input.

No disrespect to Izzy and before I get a smh emoji response I know exactly what songs Izzy wrote/co-wrote and I love them. But he's not the be all and end all of GN'R. This line-up has the potential to do great things without him. But yes, it would be cool if he was also apart of this but it's not the end of the world if he isn't. Far from it.

What you wrote reads well so it's hard not to give it a "like", but until this band releases SOMETHING, even a 1 song EP, it's hard to back up.

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5 minutes ago, ludurigan said:

Slash wrote in his book that he wrote Locomotive with Izzy. Period.

Izzy said that the band actually recorded the illusion songs three different times (probably 1989-1990). the "last/definitive" recordings that took place in 1990-1991 were done quickly in about 30 days with matt sorum.

Steven has rehearsed and likely recorded 10 or 15 songs that ended up on the illusion albums.

then there were endless "sessions" (Chicago, LA, and many more that we dont know exactly where/when) previously to the 30-days recording with Matt

The band had time to rehearse and arrange these songs on studio for who knows how many sessions.

its very likely that izzy was there on most of these sessions and its very likely that he helped arrange all the songs that ended up on the illusion albums -- even those he didnt really had a hand on writing like november rain or coma

Thought so - thanks for confirming. Izzy definitely had a huge hand in arranging UYI - no question. 

But didn't Izzy disappear from those sessions early on though? I mean his guitar is straight up missing in a lot of the songs. Locomotive doesn't have Izzy on rhythm. Iirc, Izzy was pretty much out of the picture by 1990.

Since Slash doubled the guitars for a lot of the UYI songs in the final mix  and since Izzy wasn't around -- I guess he didn't get credited. Apparently Duff wasn't credited with a lot of work he did for those albums either.

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It's like communicating with fans or having a worthwhile fan club. They wouldn't gain much from it.  They make enough bank from regular shows without the hassle. They would get some press over it but they have proven they don't need press.  

It would be a lovely way to honor their history, their fans, Izzy and Steven. No more no less. It would be nice. A nice gesture.  So I don't expect it and won't be disappointed when it doesn't happen.   

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On ‎4‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 3:59 PM, Tom-Ass said:

I am still 100% confident that Axl/Slash/Izzy and Duff could come up with some kick ass music full of substance.. I would like to hear it.... If Steven is involved to any extent, even better!! 

There would be no pressure to live up to Appetite... That will never be done.. They already released what I consider the best album of all time with Appetite and that will never be matched.. By any band... Ever.. I don't think most of them feel that pressure anyway.. The only one that might is Axl who wanted "to bury" the album.. That may have been one of his biggest obstacles the last 25 years... The reason why he had so much trouble releasing music and keeping line ups together.. He seems to have learned to let a lot of things go and changed his ways a bit.. He is older and wiser.  Instead of needing to live up to Appetite may now he can just embrace it and and be happy doing the best he can..

 

Agreed completely. The stones didn't put out a new album to bury Exhile on Main street, for example. New material won't ever top Jungle but, it'd be cool to hear. It's just more about respect for your fans, and reminding them that you're an artist beyond just a musician. An artist creates art, even if the new art can't compete with the old. I would buy any new material, and even if I come in here or go on Facebook and bitch about it, I listened to it so, who would be the real sucker there?

Another thing to get off my chest...I agree with what you said. As some like to argue, it is possible for Axl, Slash and Duff to create new music without Izzy, it just isn't likely. And the chances f it being it's best, is with Izzy. Izzy's that cool guy with the personality that keeps Axl and Slash both in check and focused, as well as able to tolerate each other creatively.

I'd be willing to bet that part of the reason these guys have made no effort whatsoever to putting out new music, likely has to do with the fact that they broke up in a recording studio over creating new material. Why go back to the scene of the crime and relive what tore you apart when you're about to make millions to milk the old hits, right?!?!

3 minutes ago, wasted said:

That's show business. 

Agreed. Dog eat, dog world. Must be nice to be fighting over millions when you're already well off

Edited by Billsfan
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20 minutes ago, Billsfan said:

Agreed completely. The stones didn't put out a new album to bury Exhile on Main street, for example. New material won't ever top Jungle but, it'd be cool to hear. It's just more about respect for your fans, and reminding them that you're an artist beyond just a musician. An artist creates art, even if the new art can't compete with the old. I would buy any new material, and even if I come in here or go on Facebook and bitch about it, I listened to it so, who would be the real sucker there?

Another thing to get off my chest...I agree with what you said. As some like to argue, it is possible for Axl, Slash and Duff to create new music without Izzy, it just isn't likely. And the chances f it being it's best, is with Izzy. Izzy's that cool guy with the personality that keeps Axl and Slash both in check and focused, as well as able to tolerate each other creatively.

I'd be willing to bet that part of the reason these guys have made no effort whatsoever to putting out new music, likely has to do with the fact that they broke up in a recording studio over creating new material. Why go back to the scene of the crime and relive what tore you apart when you're about to make millions to milk the old hits, right?!?!

Agreed. Dog eat, dog world. Must be nice to be fighting over millions when you're already well off

Once you've made that money it costs more now.

I would say Slash's LA divorce, Duff's family, Axl's Malibu lifestyle probably needs that money. The system will suck you dry. 

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No. The reunion was already slightly watered down given Izzy and Duff had already played with Axl's side show in the past. Now that 3/5 are in the band and 4/5 have appeared on stage together the idea of 5/5 reuniting doesn't even matter anymore. If they did that's cool but if they don't who cares. 

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4 hours ago, RONIN said:

Thought so - thanks for confirming. Izzy definitely had a huge hand in arranging UYI - no question. 

But didn't Izzy disappear from those sessions early on though? I mean his guitar is straight up missing in a lot of the songs. Locomotive doesn't have Izzy on rhythm. Iirc, Izzy was pretty much out of the picture by 1990.

Since Slash doubled the guitars for a lot of the UYI songs in the final mix  and since Izzy wasn't around -- I guess he didn't get credited. Apparently Duff wasn't credited with a lot of work he did for those albums either.

yep. it is likely izzy wasnt in every session

but it is likely he was in most of them

and it is very very likely that he had a hand on every song -- either he wrote, co-wrote or helped to arrange it

izzy guitar is likely missing on some UYI because slash (hijacked GNR and) deleted izzy's guitar

it doesnt mean that izzy didnt help to write and arrange said tracks

i am sure izzy recorded guitars for all the songs

but slash felt the need to redo them

apparently he deleted izzy's guitars and redid them without telling izzy

such a class act!

thats (seems to be) all there is to it

===

i have no idea about how accurate duff credit on songwriting is

but i am also pretty sure he had a say on the arrangement of pretty much every song, same for slash

i have no idea about axl though

how much input did he have on instrumental parts?

i dont know

and it seems like he didnt even go to rehearsals

my guess is that the "core" writing was done by izzy, slash and duff

and then maybe axl had a say later on and probably threw some ideas on the "final" part of the writing/arranging process

in rock in rio axl said (talking about the gig) something like "this is my first rehearsal in two years"

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4 hours ago, RussTCB said:

I will never understand people that think an artist owes them anything at all. GN'R (or any band for that matter) has given you what you're owed against what you paid them. Just because you bought a bunch of GN'R albums and/or concert tickets doesn't mean they owe you anything else at all. 

i agree with you but then again sometimes these guys give interviews and say they will do this annd that and THAT creates a lot of expectations -- and when this and that is not done, it creates a lot of disappointment

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Some people expect an old band to deliver like it used to in it's prime. Truth is the vast majority of bands don't and when it's a huge machine, you can't really stop as long as there is demand for too long or you'll stop earning.

It's like The Stones now live if/until they release new material. They sell us nostalgia, and a super solid rock show with a celebratory feel, not the fire of youth, that's gone now. Staying rich is important, if I was making that much money for just 1 show, I wouldn't let anyone fuck it up.

I still trust Axl to never compromise the quality of his art, and the tiny catalog was enough to solidify their status as one of the best hard rock bands that ever existed.

The truly special moments in the tour are still worth it. Axl tickling Slash, Axl dancing like an asshole, Axl waving like an Asian, etc.

 

Edited by Rovim
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On 4/12/2017 at 2:46 AM, SanPedro said:

Stevens relashionship now too? What happned? I have not been too up to date on GNR recently. I just made an acc here to stay more on top of things. 

To summarize, Steven said that he enjoyed his recent mini stints in GNR but thinks Frank shouldn't be the drummer on Appetite songs and the reunion wasn't the same without Izzy. He apparently only spoke with Axl for like 10 seconds and while he's still on good terms with everyone, it appears he flat out doesn't like this iteration of Guns and won't be making any more appearances.

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1 hour ago, Rovim said:

Some people expect an old band to deliver like it used to in it's prime. Truth is the vast majority of bands don't and when it's a huge machine, you can't really stop as long as long as there is demand for too long or you'll stop earning.

It's like The Stones now live if/until they release new material. They give us nostalgia, and a super solid rock show with a celebratory feel, not the fire of youth, that's gone now. Staying rich is important, if I was making that much money for just 1 show, I wouldn't let anyone fuck it up.

I still trust Axl to never compromise the quality of his art, and the tiny catalog was enough to solidify their status as one of the best hard rock bands that ever existed.

The truly special moments in the tour are still worth it. Axl tickling Slash, Axl dancing like an asshole, Axl waving like an Asian, etc.

 

At some point I thought GNR might spiral out into indulgence like Black Crowes did a little on Three Snakes and Amorica, just hang loose like Physical Grafiti. But if anything CD is more focused than UYI or at least just another slab of rock. CD isn't even as loose as St Anger or as much of a change of direction as the Black album. It's more or less, same again with new influences. Artistically it's more than possible to put out another strong record, but maybe the live shows have lost some of the balanced on a knife edge quality. 

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