Rate: Prostitute

[killuridols]

On 15 de abril de 2017 at 2:01 AM, RONIN said:

I actually went back and heard the instrumental versions of the songs first --  it helped me get the full "Chinese Democracy" experience. Like the Nu Guns fans always say here, there are little flourishes that you start to pick up in the song that you might have overlooked before.

The "bubbles" you speak of are Axl's homage to the bubbles from "Garden of Eden" 

I don't remember the bubbles from GOE but the ones from SIDHY come to mind now and I think there are other songs with bubbles too.. He's got a thing with water.

[bucketfoot]

Great, great song. It's something completely different and experimental to my ears, although it wouldn't have sounded out of place on UYI II either. Fucking love the outro as well, so soothing. Would love to hear more tracks in a similar vein to Prostitute.

Edited April 18, 2017 by bucketfoot

[Gibson87]

Aside from Catcher and TWAT, it's my favorite song on Chinese Democracy. I've always looked at the lyrics as Axl's explanation as to why things happened the way they did. 

[AlexC]

Never caught my attention initially, I always found it a bit dull but now it's probably one of my most listened to GN'R songs. Absolutely brilliant lyrics and a perfect vocal melody. Plus I love how it goes from really soft and pleasant to sinister and scary then back again. Really, really cool.

[WhazUp]

It is a pretty good tune, I quite like the orchestral parts and the second half of the song especially is fantastic with the solos and Axl's vocal delivery.  The outro with the quiet and peaceful sounding strings is also a perfect ending to the song/album as a whole

[ToonGuns]

Bucket kicks arse once again, fantastic solos. Love the use of the whammy bar throughout the album to be honest. The very start of the song sounds a bot weak, it just jumps straight in which is a little weird, but other than that it is fantastic.

[thunderram]

I love this topic.

As I've stated in past threads, when CD first came out -- and for many years after that -- I really only liked 4 songs or so from the album. But over the past couple years, I've really grown to like most of it and PROSTITUTE became one of my favorites. It's just a great song. Like most of CD, it's an acquired taste. But once you get it, you get it.

Edited April 18, 2017 by thunderram

[maynard]

It's a bad song.

Lyrics and vocals are really bad on this one. Axl's whiny helium voice makes me cringe.

All the guitar wankery is unnecessary and shows how clueless Axl was while recording his solo album. It's not interesting, not progressive, doesn't take the song to a new level. It's useless crap.

The electronic beats are cheap and again, completely unnecessary.

The song starts and ends without going nowhere, it's a complete mess with each part more uninteresting than the previous one.

Compared to the UYI ballads, it sounds flat, boring, uninspired and annoying.

Prostitute is a clear proof Axl needs people like Izzy and Slash around him. I'm pretty sure they could have taken this mediocre creation to a better level.

[James Bond]

"OK" is my vote. It's not bad, but I've never been able to get into it. I find the transitions awkward and overall it's dull. It's one of those songs that never really grew on me as much as I tried.

[Słash]

18 minutes ago, tremolo said:

My least favourite song of the album. The song is not bad, but the bridge feels anti-climatic and the end of the song is just MEH (with capital letters).

I liked Chinese Democracy, but I find that Prostitute was a poor choice as a closer. It feels like a shitty orgasm, or a lousy shag that never really gets there.

Shacklers Revenge as a closer would have been better 

[bucketfoot]

1 hour ago, Słash said:

Shacklers Revenge as a closer would have been better 

That's one track I still struggle with tbh, it just sounds so out of place on the record as a whole and also where it is in the tracklisting. Would rather have had a souped up Oh My God on CD.

[Rovim]

On 17.4.2017 at 3:51 AM, wasted said:

I think from the quote Axl said about Catcher is that he did write the verses on the sofa, in a half sleep state - that was his way to get into that mind set of the Holden Caulfield Syndrome sufferer. And that was an important distinction, he's not being Chapman, or Holden, but mimicing a state of mind he doesn't like, and his mocking tone he refered to in the verses (he said venting) was his way to present that character. And then the chorus is rebuttal of that mind state. Also, important that it's about a general phenomenom surrounding the book of "the holden caulfield syndrome" that many readers displayed after the release of the book, it was cool to be like Holden - everyone's a phony, it played well with the anti-eatablishment counter-culture, it's a 60s hippy book. But Axl was careful not to write about Chapman as well as Ono/Lennon estate have they don't use his name. The song is about the dangers of the book, about a much more common way of thinking we all have, Axl even on his couch, it's a negative subjective point of view, but the book I think Axl's opinion is, it is a trap in the way it's written. It's not Axl identifying with Lennon, in fact in the outro he says "Not like you and unlike me" in reference to Lennon. What Axl is saying is the book took someone special away. He blames Salinger for taking "our innocence beyond our stares". Axl said he started thinking about this song the day Lennon was killed, it was a time of innocence and hope for people of a certain age, so I could see that it affected Axl, changed his world. It's a very cinematic way to present this opinion/ideas. We've seen Axl do it before, where he uses characters and paints pictures and jumps around in time in his lyrics, then can get misunderstood easily. Like with One in a Million, he didn't write about his personal journey, he captured a snap shot of his experience and put it in context of his background. He saw it as a useful confession or reality check. These type of lyrics seem easily misunderstood, so I don't know if you are meant to understand them. My guess is most listeners take songs as this is the singer's opinion. So Catcher is the way Axl thinks about young and old people, and he was trapped inside wondering whether to leave the house, was thinking he was special like Lennon or Holden. To me that's not what the lyrics seem to be, But I thought it was about Axl's lost years in his mansion and Kurt's sucide for a while until Axl talked. I'd drive around San Andreas with shotgun listening to the demo and think this is zeitjest as fuck. 

Greatness.

[RONIN]

41 minutes ago, Rovim said:

Greatness.

Is it me or does it feel like wasted is on an epic acid trip 24/7?

I don't even need to see who wrote the post, I know it's him just by reading the first few lines. 

[Rovim]

1 hour ago, RONIN said:

Is it me or does it feel like wasted is on an epic acid trip 24/7?

I don't even need to see who wrote the post, I know it's him just by reading the first few lines. 

Probably just you and the limitations of your understanding, a problem relating to the style, or you just need to read it again. These are all guesses and should not be taken personally. My opinion is that his opinion on Catcher was accurate.

Edited April 20, 2017 by Rovim

[RONIN]

3 minutes ago, Rovim said:

Probably just the limitations of your understanding, a problem relating to the style, or you just need to read it again. These are all guesses and should not be taken personally. My opinion is that his opinion on Catcher was accurate.

Meant it in jest. I enjoy reading his posts. 

I agree with his overview of Catcher's lyrics. My post pertains to the last sentence he wrote: 

Quote

 I'd drive around San Andreas with shotgun listening to the demo and think this is zeitjest as fuck. 

I refer to these gems as "Wasted-isms". 

[Rovim]

3 minutes ago, RONIN said:

Meant it in jest. I enjoy reading his posts. 

I agree with his overview of Catcher's lyrics. My post pertains to the last sentence he wrote: 

I refer to these gems as "Wasted-isms". 

I don't think it's just exclusive to his posts. One of the basic shit to give the reader a break is to use humor, and you use your humor when you do that in chosen spots in the post. Ending with a last line that is funny is a common approach that's effective.

Edited April 20, 2017 by Rovim

[AxlRoseCDII]

Great fucking song. One of the best on Chinese. A beautiful instrumental and a great solo. Songs like this only make me want CD 2 and 3 even more.

[RONIN]

18 minutes ago, Rovim said:

I don't think it's just exclusive to his posts. One of the basic shit to give the reader a break is to use humor, and you use your humor when you do that in chosen spots in the post. Ending with a last line that is funny is a common approach that's effective.

I'm not referring necessarily to humor, more his idiosyncrasies which I find strangely endearing. He has a unique perspective and a very entertaining way of presenting it. 

[Rovim]

Just now, RONIN said:

I'm not referring necessarily to humor, more his idiosyncrasies which I find strangely endearing. He has a unique perspective and a very entertaining way of presenting it. 

Eh.. could be better. Needs more practice.

[AlexC]

On 17/04/2017 at 1:51 AM, wasted said:

I think from the quote Axl said about Catcher is that he did write the verses on the sofa, in a half sleep state - that was his way to get into that mind set of the Holden Caulfield Syndrome sufferer. And that was an important distinction, he's not being Chapman, or Holden, but mimicing a state of mind he doesn't like, and his mocking tone he refered to in the verses (he said venting) was his way to present that character. And then the chorus is rebuttal of that mind state. Also, important that it's about a general phenomenom surrounding the book of "the holden caulfield syndrome" that many readers displayed after the release of the book, it was cool to be like Holden - everyone's a phony, it played well with the anti-eatablishment counter-culture, it's a 60s hippy book. But Axl was careful not to write about Chapman as well as Ono/Lennon estate have they don't use his name. The song is about the dangers of the book, about a much more common way of thinking we all have, Axl even on his couch, it's a negative subjective point of view, but the book I think Axl's opinion is, it is a trap in the way it's written. It's not Axl identifying with Lennon, in fact in the outro he says "Not like you and unlike me" in reference to Lennon. What Axl is saying is the book took someone special away. He blames Salinger for taking "our innocence beyond our stares". Axl said he started thinking about this song the day Lennon was killed, it was a time of innocence and hope for people of a certain age, so I could see that it affected Axl, changed his world. It's a very cinematic way to present this opinion/ideas. We've seen Axl do it before, where he uses characters and paints pictures and jumps around in time in his lyrics, then can get misunderstood easily. Like with One in a Million, he didn't write about his personal journey, he captured a snap shot of his experience and put it in context of his background. He saw it as a useful confession or reality check. These type of lyrics seem easily misunderstood, so I don't know if you are meant to understand them. My guess is most listeners take songs as this is the singer's opinion. So Catcher is the way Axl thinks about young and old people, and he was trapped inside wondering whether to leave the house, was thinking he was special like Lennon or Holden. To me that's not what the lyrics seem to be, But I thought it was about Axl's lost years in his mansion and Kurt's sucide for a while until Axl talked. I'd drive around San Andreas with shotgun listening to the demo and think this is zeitjest as fuck. 

Can you do one of these for every song off of the album? I was never a huge fan of Catcher but after reading this it's now one of my favourite songs. Ever. Haha!

I hope you're right and Axl was fully aware of all this and was his absolute intention when writing it. Because if so then it's a brilliant song.

[Rovim]

On 20.4.2017 at 11:55 PM, Rovim said:

Probably just you and the limitations of your understanding, a problem relating to the style, or you just need to read it again. These are all guesses and should not be taken personally. My opinion is that his opinion on Catcher was accurate.

[The Holographic Universe]

On 4/20/2017 at 7:09 PM, AlexC said:

Can you do one of these for every song off of the album? I was never a huge fan of Catcher but after reading this it's now one of my favourite songs. Ever. Haha!

I hope you're right and Axl was fully aware of all this and was his absolute intention when writing it. Because if so then it's a brilliant song.

I second this thought. Any insights you can share about the other songs off Chinese democracy would be awesome wasted. I enjoyed reading and thinking about it all.

[wasted]

On 21 April 2017 at 8:09 AM, AlexC said:

Can you do one of these for every song off of the album? I was never a huge fan of Catcher but after reading this it's now one of my favourite songs. Ever. Haha!

I hope you're right and Axl was fully aware of all this and was his absolute intention when writing it. Because if so then it's a brilliant song.

This is mainly just me paraphrasing/misquoting Axl from the chats. With the demo I was going with more of a first person experience. It was Axl just singing about his take on life or something. From his pov. But then he explained the holden caulfield sydrome aspect in the chats. I think I'm pretty close to what he was saying, everyone will have their subjective take anyway. Songs are never manifestos imo. But I sort of still identify with the HCS lyrics sometimes. I don't know, maybe Axl does identify with Holden but it's something he's wary of too and ultimately rejects in the song, but we are just people. It's like this objective vs subjective wrestling match we all have in life. We can be introspective and think life sucks is pointless but then we don't want to nuke North Korea. Honestly I think the book is a satire anyway, so how literally can you take it. Point is someone did and towards the end of the book there is this section where Holden talks about the Catcher saving all the kids from growing up. This was it seems Salinger's take on the world, don't grow up. There is that section that kind of makes the book like a trap. But at the same time he ends up in a mental institute. Maybe that's cool to kids. The book doesn't have a nice moral wrap up like a paperback thriller. You know where the victorious cop goes back to the comfort of his family. Holden is left kind of as a martyr to Salinger's philosophy. 

Axl also does a similar 3rd person character in Shackler's. The verse is the Shackler/shooter in the Chicago school shootings/a general maniac. Axl outlines the character gets into it maybe even. But then the chorus, again is a rebuttal to that guy or the media looking for a reason for these shootings. Maybe there is no reason. As an artist maybe Axl isn't meant to be the answer, and maybe he can even personally feel like going on a killing spree. Like acting he can play out the part, empathy if possible but he draws a line in the chorus. Like on Rocket Queen isn't he singing from the pov of the girl at some point. I think Axl is a good interpreter of songs like Brownstone. Maybe he has lived these lives but he presents them live now pretty convincingly even though they aren't so much. 

 

That's part of why I disagree that Axl is whining on CD, people say that or whatever. For the most part it's righteous. There are obvious ones like Better/TIL that cast him as a victim of love or something. But generally he's taking the high road, and he's much more lost on Estranged than on Twat or Prostitute, it's defiance, it's about standing up to be counted. There's a lot of songs that sound like ballads but they kick ass lyrically. It's all about overcoming. I understand it's not all sexy rock n roll songs but it's not all soft ballads at all either. 

Edited April 22, 2017 by wasted

[wasted]

13 hours ago, The Holographic Universe said:

I second this thought. Any insights you can share about the other songs off Chinese democracy would be awesome wasted. I enjoyed reading and thinking about it all.

I wrote a review of CD at somepoint it was on here. Maybe it fell off in was in 2008-10. But I have it somewhere. It's a bit OTT but has some ideas there. I was looking for it because it has some kind of chronology of writing credits. I listen to CD in that order sometimes. It flows from TIL to Scraped kind of thing. 

[Rovim]

15 hours ago, wasted said:

I wrote a review of CD at somepoint it was on here. Maybe it fell off in was in 2008-10. But I have it somewhere. It's a bit OTT but has some ideas there. I was looking for it because it has some kind of chronology of writing credits. I listen to CD in that order sometimes. It flows from TIL to Scraped kind of thing. 

I remember another Catcher one you wrote it's in here somewhere, but so many posts it's hard to find. Hope it's cool, I can hide it but it's probably too late now.

"I guess what I meant was that the way the song was designed/structured as Axl explained it compared with multiple uniformed subjective takes of each listener. Depending on your take of the book and Axl himself.

The question is does it work as Axl set it up. The kind of psychedelic Beatlesy Mansonesque chiming of the guitars and piano with Axls syndrome sufferer lyrics. That's why the music is the way it is. Whether it changes enough for Axls chorus. Maybe a metal band or more theatrical band like Maiden would make it clearer. Like Alice Cooper does I think. That's why in the end it always feels like this is actually Axl. Like on Shacklers it's meant to be the shooter and Axl is playing that role but you think he's the one going on the rampage. And it works best in both cases like that. On Catcher it's Axl losing his mind after finding out Lennon got shot in the verses or trying to come to terms with it, like talking it over with the catcher, he struggles through a breakdown to finally side with sanity with the help of the ideal of Lennon. That's what I want it to be, and with the music that's more how it works for me. In the video Axl would play the role of the syndrome sufferer who kind of stalks himself and gets close to killing a version of himself but pulls back when he realises.

Same deal with Shacklers, Axl was pushed to the edge by the industry and could have gone on a killing spree after a long Malibu night.

It's like Axl is venting through metaphors and identifications with lots of themes, metaphors (Madagascar), images. It's these multiple perspectives and composites which make CD so fascinating. Even a song like Riad n the Bedouins could be about the Iraq war, terrorists but its not its about a small time arms dealer who was helping Erin sue Axl but the same time it could be about Slash and GNR. Catcher could be about the malaise that Axl went through and Slash is the kind of rebel figure that Axl is railing against. A real grown up doesn't identify with Holden, they are amused and nostalgic more. Axl matured a bit but then he's still on stage rubbing buns with pole dancers during Rocket Queen so all is not lost. Living the dream!"

 

Edited April 23, 2017 by Rovim