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Gracii Guns

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2 minutes ago, bucketfoot said:

Better still, let's give 13 year olds the right to vote, eh? Or 10 year olds? We could teach them about politics in the juniors? It's fine the way it is.

Ah yes, start putting extremes out there to try and delegitimise my point.

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Just now, toroymoi said:

Ah yes, start putting extremes out there to try and delegitimise my point.

I'm not trying to do anything, just raising the point of, if we were to follow your logic, how young is too young? You have to be an adult to vote, which is exactly how it should be.

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33 minutes ago, bucketfoot said:

I'm not trying to do anything, just raising the point of, if we were to follow your logic, how young is too young? You have to be an adult to vote, which is exactly how it should be.

16 year olds work, they can pay taxes etc. Those are adult responsibilities, and if you're old enough to be taxed then you're old enough to vote imo.

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2 minutes ago, toroymoi said:

16 year olds work, they can pay taxes etc. Those are adult responsibilities, and if you're old enough to be taxed then you're old enough to vote imo.

Do me a favour most of them are complete fuckwits. You know it and I know it. Imagine a schoolboy having a say on how much tax i have to pay and what it gets spent on. Imagine that. No way, over my dead body. Id make the dopey cunts wait till 21 unless they've contributed a minimum of 2 grand in tax and NI. 

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16 minutes ago, spunko12345 said:

Do me a favour most of them are complete fuckwits. You know it and I know it. Imagine a schoolboy having a say on how much tax i have to pay and what it gets spent on. Imagine that. No way, over my dead body. Id make the dopey cunts wait till 21 unless they've contributed a minimum of 2 grand in tax and NI. 

:rofl-lol: I have to say, I'd be tempted to push the age up if anything.

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29 minutes ago, spunko12345 said:

Do me a favour most of them are complete fuckwits. You know it and I know it. Imagine a schoolboy having a say on how much tax i have to pay and what it gets spent on. Imagine that. No way, over my dead body. Id make the dopey cunts wait till 21 unless they've contributed a minimum of 2 grand in tax and NI. 

Again, I'm thankful that you've surveyed all 16 year olds to know that on average they're like this. I know plenty of teens who know a great deal about politics (more than some 20+ year olds I know). You're saying "imagine a schoolboy having a say on how much tax [you] have to pay" but it's okay for older people to fuck over young people and their futures?

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13 minutes ago, bucketfoot said:

Again, that would be adults making desicions that affect kids, not vice versa. There's a big difference.

I think the difference between our opinions is that I respect 16 year olds enough as human beings to believe they deserve a say in their futures. Again, if 16 year olds can be taxed then they should be able to vote.

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28 minutes ago, toroymoi said:

 but it's okay for older people to fuck over young people and their futures.

Ok In a hypothetical world if all the big bad grown ups would stop fucking up young people's futures what issues do you think would be top of 16 year olds agendas.

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Just now, AtariLegend said:

Housing, welfare, bombing other countries...

Yep, those issues too. It says something that the younger generations seem to understand that working together brings prosperity, in all areas.

4 minutes ago, AtariLegend said:

So no one thinks anything of May's new plans for a UK state controlled Internet?

1984 isn't just a book anymore, it's a concern that this doesn't seem to be a bigger issue for people.

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2 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

I'm being rhetorical.

At some point you have to select a year. Eighteen seems as reasonable as any. If sixteen, then why not fifteen - it is only one year's difference after all?

I asked because you place a question mark at the end of what seemed to be a statement.

You're right that we do have to select a year, and if a 16 year old is old enough to contribute to the economy of this country by paying tax then they should get a say in who runs it. I don't see why this seems like such an extreme idea to people.

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Let's have kids voting in nursery, eh? They could play pin the tail on the Prime Minister.

14 minutes ago, toroymoi said:

I think the difference between our opinions is that I respect 16 year olds enough as human beings to believe they deserve a say in their futures. Again, if 16 year olds can be taxed then they should be able to vote.

So I don't respect 16 year olds as human beings because I don't think they should be allowed to vote? :lol: I see you've descended into the realms of talking utter shite.

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Just now, toroymoi said:

I asked because you place a question mark at the end of what seemed to be a statement.

You're right that we do have to select a year, and if a 16 year old is old enough to contribute to the economy of this country by paying tax then they should get a say in who runs it. I don't see why this seems like such an extreme idea to people.

 

I wouldn't say the idea is 'extreme', just stupid - and hardly pressing in emergency.

You only have to wait two years anyway! Worst case scenario for this ''great unfranchised mass of intelligent politically-keen sixteen-seventeen year olds'' (which I personally doubt exist but for case of argument...), is that you wait out your two years max until you're eighteen and bob's your uncle. Assuming you live an average/above average life span, that will give you more than enough time to enjoy the procedure of going into polling stations and voting for thoroughly despicable people who'll let you down; I do not feel you'll look on those missing two years seventy years ago and say to yourself, ''we wos robbed!'

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26 minutes ago, AtariLegend said:

Well average UKIP voter doesn't believe you should be allowed to vote until your above 40 according to polls.

Why are you mentioning UKIP in relation to me and my post? I don't vote UKIP if that's what you're suggesting?

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Further, you do realise that for many, the argument is completely academic. If a general election does not fall in the years when you're sixteen or seventeen, which is on the side of probable considering these things tend to fall circa every five years, then we're discussing an issue - of a sixteen/seventeen year old feeling defranchised - which does not even exist! Many teenagers have passed from fifteen to eighteen without a general election occurring.

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12 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Further, you do realise that for many, the argument is completely academic. If a general election does not fall in the years when you're sixteen or seventeen, which is on the side of probable considering these things tend to fall circa every five years, then we're discussing an issue - of a sixteen/seventeen year old feeling defranchised - which does not even exist! Many teenagers have passed from fifteen to eighteen without a general election occurring.

^^^ This. It's a nothing conversation really. Just something else for people to whinge about.

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6 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

 

I wouldn't say the idea is 'extreme', just stupid - and hardly pressing in emergency.

You only have to wait two years anyway! Worst case scenario for this ''great unfranchised mass of intelligent politically-keen sixteen-seventeen year olds'' (which I personally doubt exist but for case of argument...), is that you wait out your two years max until you're eighteen and bob's your uncle. Assuming you live an average/above average life span, that will give you more than enough time to enjoy the procedure of going into polling stations and voting for thoroughly despicable people who'll let you down; I do not feel you'll look on those missing two years seventy years ago and say to yourself, ''we wos robbed!'

I think it is pressing in emergency. It is only two years, but the effects of the government in power last far beyond that. This isn't just about being able to vote, it's the power that that vote holds. 

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31 minutes ago, bucketfoot said:

So I don't respect 16 year olds as human beings because I don't think they should be allowed to vote? :lol: I see you've descended into the realms of talking utter shite.

I mean, yeah? I'm not talking shite, you're the one claiming that teenagers don't care about anything and really aren't offering a legitimate reason as to why beyond personal assumptions.

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