I think Axl Rose and Geffen Records may have helped Charles Manson

[Sprite]

I’m going to start off by saying this might be controversial and I don't claim to know any of this for certain, it's just piecing this all together over the years is very interesting to me. There is even a video of Charles Manson talking about Guns N Roses from 1997. 

Axl may have been the catalyst to Charles Manson finally getting monetary credit for his music, though in an odd way, when GNR released a cover of ‘Look at your game, girl’ on TSI? in 1993.

Also I think Axl’s use of his image on T Shirts and thanking him with “Thanks Chaz” at the end of the song were a way of showing Manson gratitude for the song.

-In 1971, Manson is convicted of 9 counts of 1st degree murder. Though not guilty himself of the physical act, he is convicted on Conspiracy and is in prison still to this day.

- Later in 1971, a federal lawsuit for wrongful death was filed against Charles Manson by Wojciech Frykowski’s family. He was a victim in the Tate-Labianca murders.

-His family won the  lawsuit against Manson and were awarded a “Victim Relief Fund” of $500,000 with a judgement that could be renewed every 10 years, and was, in 1981 and 1991 on the basis that Manson’s notoriety has prolonged grief. Any royalty Manson would have gotten from using his image or his music, including books written about him, TV, interviews, movies, etc. would have to go to pay this victim relief fund, forever essentially. Even if you sent him prison commissary, it’s taken for the relief fund.

-It’s estimated that by 1993, 22 years after the judgement, Frykowski’s son Bartek had collected $1.4 million. This is sort of where Geffen and Guns N Roses come in.

-Axl decides he wants to release a cover of Look at your game girl. It’s released as a hidden track on The Spaghetti Incident? in 1993, amid complaints.

-To avoid controversy, Geffen alleged they had no idea it was written by Manson, and they don’t want him to get royalties. In order to avoid having Manson affiliated with the royalties by way of the relief fund, Geffen asked to be served with the judgement from 1991, assuming the legal responsibility and paid the settlement off in full to Bartek Frykowski , alleviating Charles Manson from any legal obligation.  Here are the court documents:

http://www.mansonsbackporch.com/uploads/3/4/6/0/34602785/3035557_orig.jpg

http://www.mansonsbackporch.com/uploads/3/4/6/0/34602785/7411020_orig.jpg

-In addition to paying in full the victim relief fund of Manson, Geffen agreed to pay .06 cents for every 1 million albums sold to Bartek Frykowski, for Guns cover of Manson’s song.

-But here is a point I'm missing... how or why is that ok or even possible? If the victim relief fund was paid off, why isn’t Manson credited with monetary compensation at that point for what he sang and wrote and released? What exactly is Bartek Frykowski’s justification for $60K profit for every 1 million albums sold by GNR's TSI?, after the victim relief fund is settled? The relief fund created his claim to the money. In the months after the criminal conviction before the civil, this payment did not exist, so why does it after the contract is fulfilled?

-Is it possible Axl knew this while they were recording TSI? or after talking about doing a cover of it? When did he start wearing those Manson shirts? 92? 93? Why did he say “Thanks Chaz” at the end of the song?

-By doing this, Geffen actually helped Charles Manson though, and in this way Axl was the catalyst. For example, prior to this, if you were to send commissary to Manson he likely wouldn’t receive any of it and it would go to his victim relief fund. Now, people send Manson money in prison and theoretically it is his to use and has been since 1994 since he no longer has a legal obligation to the relief fund. Whether or not he can access it is probably more of a political discussion than moral at this point but at least “on the books” he can have commissary again. If you look at his website Mansondirect.com, there seems to be an actual method to buying his commissary so I think it might be working out for him.

- In fairness, Axl did distance himself from Manson to a degree in his public statement in 1994, but at the same time never downplayed him to the point that's become typical in popular culture. One part I found odd is he ended it with “I am donating all my personal profits from having that song on our album to a charity, an environmental group to help protect wildlife and our oceans". Manson runs a group called ATWA- Air, Trees, Water, Animals and if you've ever watched any of his interviews, that's always been his main focus. It’s always about environmental protection in some form. It’s just so odd to me how synchronicity works. Here is Axl's statement:

http://www.gnrevolution.com/viewtopic.php?id=13293

 

 

-Lastly, Bartek Frykowski was stabbed to death in 1999 in Poland. I know there were rumors about 15 years ago? of the song being removed from future copies of TSI?, and I know its track listing has changed somewhat recently from a hidden track, to a stand alone 13^th track, to a hybrid with I don’t care about you on Itunes. It’s interesting to think why it changes or who could be profiting now or how things like this work. I'm still curious how Manson can't be credited with money directly from sales if Geffen assumed legal responsibility of his victim relief fund, which was the reason for 20+ years he couldn't profit.  It's sort of forgotten knowledge, but Manson recorded that Lie album after he had been charged, as a way to make money for his legal defense, which was denied immorally if not illegally, in court. So it's really strange to think of the legal battle that album and in particular song went through when you think it was written by a guy who everyone was using to make money except himself. Then they have the audacity to say "he was just mad because he wanted to be famous and wasn't good enough" or something in that vain.

I would love to hear Axl's take on this. For what it's worth I think the lyrics and song in general are excellent.

Here is a video of Manson talking about it from a 1997 parole hearing: around the 24:20 mark:

 

 

 

[Sosso]

That is also a very good interview

[Carburetta]

Anyone see Axl's 'other' Manson tee? With the blood on it? What was Axl thinking with all of this?

[DieselDaisy]

Rose grew a beard at the same time and obtained a fixation with Jim Morrison on account of Oliver Stone's excruciatingly painful Doors film; Rose also wore a t-shirt with Jesus upon it. My theory is no further formed than that around the year 1992 Rose became obsessed with controversial chaps with facial hair who were perceived to be 'persecuted' by certain people.

[Silent Jay]

Axl told his gardener Carlos Booy to donate all his money made from that song too.

[killuridols]

2 hours ago, Sprite said:

One part I found odd is he ended it with “I am donating all my personal profits from having that song on our album to a charity, an environmental group to help protect wildlife and our oceans". Manson runs a group called ATWA- Air, Trees, Water, Animals and if you've ever watched any of his interviews, that's always been his main focus. It’s always about environmental protection in some form. It’s just so odd to me how synchronicity works.

Maybe there's a connection there. Who knows....

Those years (1993-1994) were also the times when Axl was in full force under Yoda's direction. She and her husband ran the Arcos Cielos organization, which also advocates for environmental protection, University of Trees and the Future of Butterflies

What is odd to me is that many criminals and abusers of all kinds do not show one ounce of sensitivity when they have to beat up people, torture them or kill them. But then they are all emotional and protectionist of animals, plants and mother Earth.

2 hours ago, Sprite said:

-Is it possible Axl knew this while they were recording TSI? or after talking about doing a cover of it? When did he start wearing those Manson shirts? 92? 93? Why did he say “Thanks Chaz” at the end of the song?

I think it's contradictory that he says "Thanks, Chaz" as if he was Manson's bestie and at the same time make a statement calling him "sick individual".

[Sydney Fan]

1 hour ago, Silent Jay said:

Axl told his gardener Carlos Booy to donate all his money made from that song too.

so axls gardner is his accountant. ? Sometimes you have to wonder what planet he's on?. Does yoda still have influences on his life?.

[double talkin jive mfkr]

this is the weirdest moment of axl's career and gives room to believe illumanati influences into his personal world - wtf was he thinking by encouraging the manson agenda with the shirts and the song hidden on SI. It's truly the weirdest thing up there with what is rumored to purport the backwards playing of stairway 

[RONIN]

According to Marilyn Manson, this whole thing was a lame attempt to cook up some controversy and give Axl street cred during a time when Axl and Gnr were increasingly seen as cheesy corporate rockers.

[WhazUp]

1 minute ago, RONIN said:

According to Marilyn Manson, this whole thing was a lame attempt to cook up some controversy and give Axl street cred during a time when Axl and Gnr were increasingly seen as cheesy corporate rockers.

I was thinking this too, maybe Axl saw it as edgy and cool and wanted to give a covers album an extra publicity kick or something.

[Top-Hatted One]

Axl and Slash on Manson and the song

[Top-Hatted One]

This is the same guy who is now championing women's rights on his moral high ground. Can't make it up

[killuridols]

47 minutes ago, RONIN said:

According to Marilyn Manson, this whole thing was a lame attempt to cook up some controversy and give Axl street cred during a time when Axl and Gnr were increasingly seen as cheesy corporate rockers.

I think it gave him more asshole reputation than ever before...

[Len Cnut]

The mans been in fuckin' nick for 40 years, no ones helping him do shit, don't worry.

[Blackstar]

17 hours ago, Sprite said:

Axl may have been the catalyst to Charles Manson finally getting monetary credit for his music, though in an odd way, when GNR released a cover of ‘Look at your game, girl’ on TSI? in 1993.

The Lemonheads did a cover of a Manson song (he was fully credited) a few years before TSI and at a time when they were relatively popular as an indie rock band.

 

Edited May 3, 2017 by Blackstar

[bucketfoot]

17 hours ago, Carburetta said:

What was Axl thinking with all of this?

He probably wasn't to be honest. Another 'One In A Million' moment from Axl.

[dalsh327]

Not giving credit to Manson was what the Beach Boys did... and you know how that turned out. I am surprised Dennis Wilson wasn't killed. 

Edited May 3, 2017 by dalsh327

[Russel Nash]

Another thing to notice on TSI, the Zodiac alphabet(FUCK EM ALL) thing.

[RONIN]

What catapulted him to his current notoriety? Axl Rose?

Manson - I went out to LA to talk to Trent about starting the record and we were backstage at a concert hanging out with Axl Rose. He was telling me about The Spaghetti Incident record and hadn't mentioned anything about Manson. I think it's a case of someone with no respect anymore trying to get some notoriety from the underground crowd. I think it was a shallow thing. It was even more shallow that he didn't back himself up on it. He cried to the press like a pussy. It was a publicity stunt that totally backfired.

Gacy - It's one thing to be an asshole or racist, it's another to be a hypocrite. You really like it and then as soon as you're confronted on it, you sit there and cop out because you're afraid of the heat you'll catch. People gave him more shit for Manson than all the stuff he'd said about hooray for tolerance!s and immigrants.

https://www.mansonwiki.com/wiki/Interview:Seconds_Magazine_Interviews_Marilyn_Manson_%26_Madonna_Wayne_Gacy

 

 The first time I was in LA, I met Axl Rose and mentioned something about Charles Manson songs that he had never heard of and then he did that Charles Manson cover a year later.

On the subject of Axl: What’s your take on the revival of GNR and Axl being the only original member left?

 

I don’t know a lot of details about it. Sean Beavan, who mixed EAT ME, DRINK ME, and worked on all our records for the most part -- except Holywood -- was working on that for like 2 years. I saw the comeback thing and I don’t really know what to make of it. I have seen the Velvet Revolver side of it and the Buckethead Guns N’ Roses side of it. I saw Guns N’ Roses on the Appetite for Destruction tour. It’s really sad to say -- and kids I’m not trying to make any sort of suggestion here, but a lot of people are not as good when they stop doing drugs. I was singing Welcome to the Jungle karaoke last night on my birthday and I had leather pants on.

 

When did this meeting take place?

 

When I met him, that was before Portrait came out, it was before I was fined? I think. It was when I did the Gave Up video with Trent. Quite honestly -- and I’m not insinuating anything -- but at the time I was a little uncomfortable. He didn’t really know me, and he’s like, “Hey I will fly you out to LA. You can play guitar in my video and you can stay with me.” I said I don’t play guitar, that’s ok man don’t worry about it. I felt like I could have woken up with a sore anus, but I didn’t, the jury’s out on that one.. I am not suggesting anything. At the time I was a little intimidated, but then when I got there I realized I’m a good 4ft taller than him, so it was fine.

 

http://www.mansonquotes.com/Marilyn_Manson_Interviews-Eat_Me,_Drink_Me-484-MansonUSA_2008_Jan_12

Edited May 3, 2017 by RONIN

[Underhardy]

He says "thanks Jack... not Thanks Chaz.. lol

[Blackstar]

1 hour ago, RONIN said:

When did this meeting take place?

 

When I met him, that was before Portrait came out, it was before I was fined? I think. It was when I did the Gave Up video with Trent. Quite honestly -- and I’m not insinuating anything -- but at the time I was a little uncomfortable. He didn’t really know me, and he’s like, “Hey I will fly you out to LA. You can play guitar in my video and you can stay with me.” I said I don’t play guitar, that’s ok man don’t worry about it. I felt like I could have woken up with a sore anus, but I didn’t, the jury’s out on that one.. I am not suggesting anything. At the time I was a little intimidated, but then when I got there I realized I’m a good 4ft taller than him, so it was fine.

What? I can't stop laughing If there is any truth to what Manson implied here, the only thing I can say is that Axl had a very bad taste (in contrast to his taste on women)

------

On a serious note, Marilyn Manson calling anyone else pretentious is the pot calling the kettle black.

Edited May 3, 2017 by Blackstar

[2414225]

You guys shouldn't take Axl that serious. Dude said and did so many controversial things. Just take the Slash is a cancer thing as example for his twisted mind. 

I don't get the Charles Manson glorification in general. Charles is a psychopath with a swastika on his face. Was Axl the 1st rock star who paid Manson tribute? NIN recorded an album in the Polanski Tate house and then Marylin Manson took the house door for his recording studio if I remember it correctly. 

Back in the day I read a bit about the Tate murdering. Just the fact that they murdered a pregnant woman is so disgusting...and the pic of Polanski next to the bloody door is maybe the most disturbing pic I have ever see. And I have seen a lot of weird stuff in the WWW. You should not look up pics from this scenario in general. 

Charles Manson and his clan are a simple disgrace and I blame Axl for giving them publicity. 

The fact that Axl meet Marylin Manson in 1992 is funny. For which GnR video did he consider Marylin? 

Edited May 3, 2017 by 2414225

[-W.A.R-]

2 hours ago, RONIN said:

The first time I was in LA, I met Axl Rose and mentioned something about Charles Manson songs that he had never heard of and then he did that Charles Manson cover a year later.

On the subject of Axl: What’s your take on the revival of GNR and Axl being the only original member left?

 

I don’t know a lot of details about it. Sean Beavan, who mixed EAT ME, DRINK ME, and worked on all our records for the most part -- except Holywood -- was working on that for like 2 years. I saw the comeback thing and I don’t really know what to make of it. I have seen the Velvet Revolver side of it and the Buckethead Guns N’ Roses side of it. I saw Guns N’ Roses on the Appetite for Destruction tour. It’s really sad to say -- and kids I’m not trying to make any sort of suggestion here, but a lot of people are not as good when they stop doing drugs. I was singing Welcome to the Jungle karaoke last night on my birthday and I had leather pants on.

 

When did this meeting take place?

 

When I met him, that was before Portrait came out, it was before I was fined? I think. It was when I did the Gave Up video with Trent. Quite honestly -- and I’m not insinuating anything -- but at the time I was a little uncomfortable. He didn’t really know me, and he’s like, “Hey I will fly you out to LA. You can play guitar in my video and you can stay with me.” I said I don’t play guitar, that’s ok man don’t worry about it. I felt like I could have woken up with a sore anus, but I didn’t, the jury’s out on that one.. I am not suggesting anything. At the time I was a little intimidated, but then when I got there I realized I’m a good 4ft taller than him, so it was fine.

lol I kinda feel for Axl....he really tried to get on that grunge/industrial wave and they made a joke out of him.

[dontdamnmeuyi2015]

The only talent Manson had was to sucker stupid people into his cult.

It's amazing how many people believed his bullshit.

Axl was a child in the 60's so how could he have helped Manson and once he was in jail for murder I would have hoped Axl wasn't that stupid and naïve to believe this killer had any musically talent at all. The man couldn't even spell correctly.

My mother lived through this time. Manson was pure evil and those women who killed for him were evil too. Sick, sick, sick bastards.

Anyone who kills a woman and her unborn baby deserve a special place in HELL.

[RONIN]

54 minutes ago, -W.A.R- said:

lol I kinda feel for Axl....he really tried to get on that grunge/industrial wave and they made a joke out of him.

Probably because he was king of the hill and they didn't want to include him in their movement even if GnR had legit punk rock roots. It probably made sense from a commercial point of view to distance themselves from guns to get more publicity. A lot of these guys have copped to liking GnR years later like Billy Corgan, Manson, etc.

Reminds me of this vintage quote:

'We said a lot of shit [about Guns N' Roses] and didn't realize how bad it was until we got caught, ' admitted Faith No More bassist Bill Gould. 'Axl was real straight with us but it was an ugly scene. He said "It's like I went away and came back home to find you guys fucked my wife. I only like you guys, Nirvana, Jane's Addiction and two other bands and all of you hate me."

Into the Black: The Inside Story of Metallica (1991-2014)

The two other bands he's referring to are probably Pearl Jam and Nine Inch Nails.

Edited May 3, 2017 by RONIN