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A guess at the reason we are gettin so many CD tracks live


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2 hours ago, Tom-Ass said:

I hear you.. I revisited CD when the reunion came about... Still terrible... 

The early demos and even the antiquiet leaks showed so much more promise than what was released.

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Just now, Silent Jay said:

 

  • Think About You - 14 Years - Dust N' Bones - Ain't The First - Pretty TiedUp = Not Happening without Izzy 
  • Dead Horse etc. = Not happening 'cause Axl's voice.

I think You're Crazy, Perfect Crime, Slither and Down On The Farm may be happening sometimes soon anyway.

 

this post made me re-realize how special izzy would be on this tour, his tunes added in… imagine "14 years" and "dust n' bones" every night… instead of some of the material that feels stale at this point.  

i take your point about axl's voice and "dead horse" but it's a brilliant song and i'd love to see them make a key change for him… at least try it.  never understood why such an amazing song could be locked away and forgotten.  

i hope you're right about what songs lie ahead.  i want Slither… i guess in the way people are interested in the way Slash and Duff play their own parts on CD songs… i'd be interested to see what axl brings to one of THEIR songs.  

 

Edited by Sunset Gardner
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1 hour ago, Towelie said:

I think you'll find you're wrong buddy. Tony lost exclusive rights to the Sabbath name when he negotiated the first reunion tour with Ozzy in the mid-nineties. Hence why the revolving door of replacement singers ended and the only Sabbath album to be released since then is one with Ozzy on vocals. Dio confirmed as much when Heaven & Hell first got together. Nice try though, buddy.

The four members of Heaven & Hell recorded and toured together as Black Sabbath from 1980 to 1982, and again from 1991 to 1992. After they reunited to record three new songs for the 2007 compilation album, Black Sabbath: The Dio Years, they embarked on a 2007–2008 tour. Iommi, owner of the Black Sabbath name, decided to call the touring group Heaven & Hell[1] to differentiate the project from the Ozzy Osbourne-led Black Sabbath.[2] The moniker was taken from the first Dio-fronted Black Sabbath album, Heaven and Hell. According to Iommi, the name change was made so that fans at concerts would not expect "to hear “Iron Man” and “War Pigs” and all that... it’s none of the old stuff, it’s none of the Ozzy period. It’s all Dio stuff. So by calling ourselves Heaven and Hell, it’s revisiting that period."[3]

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2 minutes ago, ohmygod said:

The four members of Heaven & Hell recorded and toured together as Black Sabbath from 1980 to 1982, and again from 1991 to 1992. After they reunited to record three new songs for the 2007 compilation album, Black Sabbath: The Dio Years, they embarked on a 2007–2008 tour. Iommi, owner of the Black Sabbath name, decided to call the touring group Heaven & Hell[1] to differentiate the project from the Ozzy Osbourne-led Black Sabbath.[2] The moniker was taken from the first Dio-fronted Black Sabbath album, Heaven and Hell. According to Iommi, the name change was made so that fans at concerts would not expect "to hear “Iron Man” and “War Pigs” and all that... it’s none of the old stuff, it’s none of the Ozzy period. It’s all Dio stuff. So by calling ourselves Heaven and Hell, it’s revisiting that period."[3]

http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/ozzy-osbourne-sues-tony-iommi-over-ownership-of-black-sabbath-name/

 

Looks like they were fighting over it..... As it relates here.... Guns N Roses put out CD... No court battles there. 

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Just now, Tom-Ass said:

I hear you.. I revisited CD when the reunion came about... Still terrible... 

that's funny… i did the same thing… never would i consider it gnr but i listened to it again, i wanted to be open to the songs and to axl and what a piece of shit.  i actually think "this i love" is brilliant, i really do, but the production is so over the top, it should've been recorded like a tom waits song… axl alone in a room at a piano… and the solo is a shameless slash ripoff, but no doubt axl is a great writer.   

people hate me twice on CD… one that i think it's a solo record by employees… and two because i think "this i love" is the best song on the record.    

Edited by Sunset Gardner
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"It's very different from what the original Guns N' Roses sounded like" 

"It's a record that the original Guns N' Roses could never possibly make"

That's Slash basically explaining why a lot of fans don't want Chinese Democracy stuff played on the reunion tour. At the same time, the band we have now is way too far from the "original Guns N' Roses" he's talking about, so whatever...

 

I wish they could play Like A Stone instead of Black Hole Sun :P

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I believe Tony no longer is the sole ownership of the band's name. He can do nothing without the blessing of Ozzy (read: Sharon) Osbourne. And prior to that, Black Sabbath never really disbanded after the Ozzy/Sabbath reunion in '98 - RNRHOF. And I'm sure Dio was just as happy to sing only his own classics.

The Devil You Know is Black Sabbath.

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3 hours ago, Silent Jay said:

I believe Tony no longer is the sole ownership of the band's name. He can do nothing without the blessing of Ozzy (read: Sharon) Osbourne. And prior to that, Black Sabbath never really disbanded after the Ozzy/Sabbath reunion in '98 - RNRHOF. And I'm sure Dio was just as happy to sing only his own classics.

The Devil You Know is Black Sabbath.

Yep. That's basically how I read the situation. 

 

The way the lawsuit played out in the mid 2000's was for 1/4ths ownership between the 4. 

 

Edited by ohmygod
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3 hours ago, BorderlineCrazy said:

"It's very different from what the original Guns N' Roses sounded like" 

"It's a record that the original Guns N' Roses could never possibly make"

That's Slash basically explaining why a lot of fans don't want Chinese Democracy stuff played on the reunion tour. At the same time, the band we have now is way too far from the "original Guns N' Roses" he's talking about, so whatever...

 

I wish they could play Like A Stone instead of Black Hole Sun :P

Actually it's Slash speaking about the CD album long ago. :) He also called the album very good and Axl brilliant in that interview.

I think what some people like to forget, even with Izzy and Steven back in the band and the lineup so many want, they most probably wouldn't make the same kind of music they did back in the 80s/90s. They're all older now, at a different point in lives and their music would be quite different from what they did over 20 years ago. Listen to pretty much any band of your choice active for 20 or 30 years, the last album never sounds like the first ones.

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2 minutes ago, Zurimor said:

Actually it's Slash speaking about the CD album long ago. :) He also called the album very good and Axl brilliant in that interview.

I think what some people like to forget, even with Izzy and Steven back in the band and the lineup so many want, they most probably wouldn't make the same kind of music they did back in the 80s/90s. They're all older now, at a different point in lives and their music would be quite different from what they did over 20 years ago. Listen to pretty much any band of your choice active for 20 or 30 years, the last album never sounds like the first ones.

Totally! Listen to the first two Maiden albums and then listen to their recent stuff. Same with Judas Priest. 

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7 hours ago, Silent Jay said:

We all know that Axl like singing Chinese Democracy the most.

I think the band has every right to play Prostitute since it is the latest geniune GnR deepcut.

I'm not sure which song do you want instead? Axl is not capable and mostly doesn't want to perform Right Next Door To Hell or Locomotive ever. Get real.

  • Think About You - 14 Years - Dust N' Bones - Ain't The First - Pretty TiedUp = Not Happening without Izzy 
  • So Fine-Get In The Ring-Breakdown-Shotgun BLues = B-sides, Not relevant enough.
  • Right Next Door To Hell - Locomotive - Perfect Crime - Dead Horse etc. = Not happening 'cause Axl's voice.

I just don't see any other GnR song that can be played instead of Prostitute. And also 'as good'. I think You're Crazy, Perfect Crime, Slither and Down On The Farm may be happening sometimes soon anyway.

Perfect Crime was added as a backup song on the setlist when they toured Australia. Which tells me if its on the setlist paper , then the band have rehearsed and Axl can do it.

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2 hours ago, Zurimor said:

Actually it's Slash speaking about the CD album long ago. :) He also called the album very good and Axl brilliant in that interview.

I think what some people like to forget, even with Izzy and Steven back in the band and the lineup so many want, they most probably wouldn't make the same kind of music they did back in the 80s/90s. They're all older now, at a different point in lives and their music would be quite different from what they did over 20 years ago. Listen to pretty much any band of your choice active for 20 or 30 years, the last album never sounds like the first ones.

I agree with him about Axl being brilliant and CD being very good.

I don't think the original line up would be able to create another album of the quality of Appetite but style-wise, a new album by that line up would be way closer to Appetite than to CD unless Axl was by far the main creative force. Musicians do evolve and change but listen to Izzy's last album, Slash's last album, Loaded's last album and Steven's album and compare them to Appetite and CD. I think it could be a Use Your Illusion sort of situation again, more variety than Appetite but with those bluesy, hard rock roots on most of the material.

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10 hours ago, Tom-Ass said:

Exactly this.... For the people that want to hear CD songs, Axl should to a solo club/theater tour on his down time from Guns to keep his nut swingers happy.  Looking at the increase of ticket sales since the "reunion" people want to heart songs by the classic lineups.. All these people sure as hell weren't buying tickets during the painful CD era..

Well lets be honest , he didn't need to do a club show he toured CD for 6 years only to see that with each passing year, the attendance records were down and only die hard NuGNR were attending. When people aren't coming to your shows what does that tell you and you can't blame economics all the time. Team yes were probably on the side of the stage each night every year saying to his ear that the crowds are loving the songs and the music. But the cash registers tell a different story. The question Axl needs to ask is was CD worth breaking up a band for ?. Below is an interview from Slash from back in  2000,       

Recently, Kerrang reported the rumours sweeping LA that the classic GN’R line-up - Slash, Axl, guitarist Izzy Stradlin, bassist Duff McKagan and drummmer Steven Adler - were secretly rehearsing together in Phoenix. Slash hasn’t seen the story, but he had heard about it.

Is it really Guns N’Roses without him (slash) in the band?

He thinks for a moment.

« I can’t answer that. I just wish the fucker would get the fuckin’ record out so I could see why he took something so cool and systematically, destroyed it. I want to hear where he was headed, and what he was trying to communicate that none of us in the band could relate to. »

                                                                                                                                            

Edited by Sydney Fan
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20 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

A lot of people hate that album and/or believe it is an illegitimate album.

Doesn't change the fact that it is a Guns N'Roses album.

A lot of people having an opinion has never made it any truer.

Edited by EvH
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28 minutes ago, ericy210 said:

Maybe they're just fun to play and they like the crowd reception?

everything doesn't have to have all these deep meanings or layers of controversy 

 I bet now they're playing stadiums, the crowd reception to the CD songs is even more muted. I wonder how it comes across to Axl, I mean, he must see a distinct difference between 80k people losing their shit over Welcome To The Jungle and the relative muted response he gets when he performs anything from CD. 

I wouldn't know, because I haven't seen a NITL show and have no interest in seeing GNR perform the exact same setlist I've already seen numerous times before, but I'm guessing I'm right. I remember there being a bit of a flat reception to the CD songs when NuGnR were doing half-filled arenas, so it must be even more obvious and pronounced now they're playing to stadiums of people who just want to hear AFD+Nov Rain.

Edited by Towelie
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At the show I attended, people were estatic over Chinese Democracy (the song) as its a definite rock song without any frills and fits into the set quite nicely. People were applauding and screaming like crazy over both Axl and Slash in This I Love. The stadium audience does not hate CD songs.

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2 hours ago, Magnus Cavalerra said:

This is the setlist from Susan insta story.

DxB11NJ.jpg

 

And this is the setlist from one of the promoter Insta. Trigger warning for the purist because its contain insensitive material (i.e. NuGuns member name)

18722339_246085492535928_771381525135491

LOVE the trigger warning!!

 

no more slither..... hmmmm. (I actually really like that song and it would have been cool to hear axl sing it) 

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Fans are frozen in time with Guns n' Roses. Had this band remained together beyond UYI - people would have become accustomed to a new sound for the band. Axl would have forced the band to evolve and experiment more while Duff, Slash, and Izzy would have grounded the material and given it more gravitas. There would have been more connective tissue between the albums instead of what we ended up with. Since we never got that, it's an eternal tug of war between Appetite purists, people who love the direction of the Illusions, and the Axl solo era crowd. 

I think Chinese Democracy has some great potential but aside from "Prostitute", I don't feel any of the tracks were ever fully realized. They're either too over-produced/layered or missing an organic feel - these songs really feel cut/paste sometimes and it affects their flow imho. That and - they definitely need Duff, Slash and Izzy. I love Buckethead but he can't work miracles as a session player. Chinese Democracy needed equal collaboration from others in the band to shape it - not Axl saying - "Hey Bucket, play a few cool riffs. Okay thanks - let me cut/paste each riff and see how it all fits into random songs." No dude, this is a band - it doesn't work that way.

Like Sunset Gardener pointed out, CD is way overcooked. Period. Whatever essence it once had was wiped away with the endless tinkering and revisions. People say that about the Illusions, but I feel like CD suffered a much worse fate from the amount of time it spent gestating. They took a perfectly great song - Catcher in the Rye (demo) - and ruined it in the final version. Why? Does TWAT really need the intro and outro choir? It's stuff like that where you go "ahh....that's cool....ohh but that sucks....damn, that was weird". I don't feel like Chinese has an iota of the repeat value/staying power of Illusions, let alone AFD. Only track I even revisit from time to time is the Brian May version of Catcher which I feel is a track worthy of the old band along with Prostitute. Sorry is musically great but the lyrics are a letdown. Ditto with This I love - would be interesting to hear the original, stripped down, 1993 version. 

Axl is his own worst enemy when it comes to his music. I'm sure if Axl had to redo AFD, there would be a symphony orchestra buried in the layers of each song with a violin solo interlude on "Anything Goes" or a Greek harpist plucking a few strings on a rare harp made of the finest materials on earth for "My Michelle". With Axl, more of everything is always better.

As James Hetfield once said, "I don't know if there's much Guns or Roses in any of that, but it's Axl - and he has not changed or waned one bit, and I kinda respect that."

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10 hours ago, Sunset Gardner said:

it's not hate or negative.  this is a GUNS N' ROSES forum.  you want nice?  go to the norah jones forum down the street.  

axl rose is one of the best front men in the history of rock n' roll and he fronted one of the best bands… i would say it's more FRUSTRATION that axl's ego and the enablers he hires to surround him ruined said great band.  and now to charge people enormous sums while playing his solo material HE KNOWS only twenty to twenty-five people per show actually want to hear, it's delusional, it's rude, and it sucks the energy right out of the room every time a CD song starts.  

but staying on topic "the reason we are getting so many CD tracks live" is that axl and Team Yes are on a quest to legitimize CD and the employees that wrote it for him and toured behind it.    never.  gonna.  happen.  and while i hate it, i'm learning to understand Ivanka and Jared have made business decisions and are going to play CD songs to appease the little man.  

i'm not bashing axl… i'm CHALLENGING him to meet his potential and to create the final chapter that real gnr deserves.  i'm challenging him to accept CD failed, despite the time and money and layers axl hoped would save the record, it failed and nobody paying their hard earned money wants to hear it (right, except you, you and the other six people who give a shit).  failing is never easy, especially when you fail trying to prove to your bandmates you didn't need them and to the world you and you alone were gnr.  

for the record, i'm rooting for axl to get it right… and yes, different opinions/speaking freely = great forum… i totally agree.  this a great forum.  a big THANK YOU to those who run it and maintain it and deal with the headaches.  cheers.  

 

Nailed it. This is all about legitimizing those "wilderness" years to all the GnR fans who jumped ship in 1993 and are showing up to the shows now. Total ego trip to include that material. I also think he assumes that a lot of people ignored CD out of principle and didn't give it a chance (probably some truth there). 

 

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This is more a response to comments on the first page than anything.

It's all GnR history, it's all GnR songs regardless as to what era of the band or the members. So imo they should play what the active touring members want to play and enjoy playing while also appeasing as much as possible the regular casual fans w/ classic hits ala. Sweet Child.

I consider everyone lucky that so called "deep cuts" like Coma and DTJ got played in the last tour - in fairness it's quite ballsy for the reunion tour back then to commit to Coma (as well as some CD songs) as the majority of fans at these shows aren't there for CD or the likes of Coma. That is food for the more "hardcore" fans imo.

I personally get frustrated - and have always - with their lack of spontaneity and shaking up of set lists. They generally have the one show and cart it around place to place - even down to actions and mannerisms during and between songs. For myself, knowing this, is why I genuinely get excited by new covers or a sudden song out of the standard being thrown in.

A band the size of Guns will always struggle to appease ppl with setlists, but the common fan will be fucking stoked with the key hits - WTTJ, Sweet C, November Rain etc. I for one use Sweet C and Nov R as toilet breaks or drink run times.

BACK OT more - Agree with a previous post, to a degree, that part of it is legitimizing the CD era. Having the "reunion" guys play them does exactly that, whilst it also builds bridges. However part of me also likes to think its simply due to them being Guns songs - regardless of whether you personally think it's Axl solo or not - the name is Guns. Whilst for Axl its the most recent stuff, albeit now old, so why not play it.

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2 hours ago, ericy210 said:

Maybe they're just fun to play and they like the crowd reception?

everything doesn't have to have all these deep meanings or layers of controversy 

There Is very little If any reception for the Chinese songs at the shows I attended. As a matter of fact, most people sit down or run for a beer.

Edited by ironmt
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