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Open Letters to GN’R from Fans


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7 hours ago, wasted said:

There's very little nu metal on CD. Shackler's is the only one with Korn element. Scraped is more RATM/Evil Empire. Better has a whiff of NIN but doubt many could pick it out of a line up. None of the production team are nu metal, I'd say it's way more Alt rock than nu metal. 

What's up with the mountains? 

That's Yosemite I believe lol

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5 hours ago, wasted said:

Seems a bit narrowed minded but it's a free country. 

I sort of see a link between Young and Pearl Jam Nirvana. So I think Axl can sing those or Soundgarden/AIC. They are just like old classic rock bands really. 

Axl on a pure Korn song would be weird but Shacklers has some Zombie element too. 

Oh, you meant alt-rock as in late '80s - early '90s grunge? Well I detect little of that on Chinese - maybe the title track a bit.

If you are going to be broader than 'numetal', then the influences are NIN, Tool, Perfect Circle, Manson, White Zombie. Chinese has that same cluttered abrasive production - everything but the kitchen sink - that all those mid-late 1990s hard rock/metal albums shared (ironically, when he put it out in 2008, everybody was stripping back their sound!). Even the piano ballads eschew clarity of production in favour of beeps and overdubs.

In those days it was as if people were operating under the illusion that, by adding lengthy intros and layers of FX, it would somehow elevate their mediocre rock and metal songs to the status of 'high art'. It didn't quite work out like that and all we obtained was a load of rubbish music!

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7 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

Oh, you meant alt-rock as in late '80s - early '90s grunge? Well I detect little of that on Chinese - maybe the title track a bit.

If you are going to be broader than 'numetal', then the influences are NIN, Tool, Perfect Circle, Manson, White Zombie. Chinese has that same cluttered abrasive production - everything but the kitchen sink - that all those mid-late 1990s hard rock/metal albums shared (ironically, when he put it out in 2008, everybody was stripping back their sound!). Even the piano ballads eschew clarity of production in favour of beeps and overdubs.

In those days it was as if people were operating under the illusion that, by adding lengthy intros and layers of FX, it would somehow elevate their mediocre rock and metal songs to the status of 'high art'. It didn't quite work out like that and all we obtained was a load of rubbish music!

Subjective opinion. A lot of bands used it too great effect. Point taken about it all going on CD, but that is CD. You get upset by the beeps but they are a common thing in the 90s from Radiohead to Manson and NIN.  CD was put together like AFD with all these different influences on one record. Maybe the scope of AFD wasn't as broad so it's not as jarring. Better has a NIN element and Skynard element, just as It so Easy has punk and rock parts. 

Most of those bands aren't cluttered. Manson is well balanced. I think CD just had extra layers in the tradition of rock going OTT but I'm not convinced many tracks were cluttered in the end. It's wall of sound on some tracks like Catcher which makes sense. I thought keyboards in rock was from the 70s and in the 90s the 70s were back. Maybe from a really metal pov a keyboard is pretentious, first rock record I got was Hysteria and grew up on 80s pop, so keyboards I just normal. I guess I found NIN in the techno sectiom of a record store, it was like electronica. I never thought of NIN and Manson as arty but I guess they were. Very theatrical. Keyboards do lend that dimension. I'm not sure they added it to be high art though, that was just part of their lineage or influences. It's just a keyboard man!

 

I do think elements of nu metal though here and there. There's a Muse type thing going on Shackler's. Ron put in that sort 00s prog rock element. There's definitely a lot to take in and it's fair enough that some don't like it or think it's not hard rock or whatever. It has this ear candy element too which goes with itunes. It reminds of those 90s records from Faith no more or Bungle where on first listen you can't take it all in. It takes a while but then the songs emerge. It's not very radio friendly. It is diametrically oppsed to rock in a way. It almost like the fetishization of rock it's so detailed.  I doubt it was planned its just with all those players and production team and Axl it could happen organically. 

Edited by wasted
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7 hours ago, wasted said:

Subjective opinion. A lot of bands used it too great effect. Point taken about it all going on CD, but that is CD. You get upset by the beeps but they are a common thing in the 90s from Radiohead to Manson and NIN.  CD was put together like AFD with all these different influences on one record. Maybe the scope of AFD wasn't as broad so it's not as jarring. Better has a NIN element and Skynard element, just as It so Easy has punk and rock parts. 

Most of those bands aren't cluttered. Manson is well balanced. I think CD just had extra layers in the tradition of rock going OTT but I'm not convinced many tracks were cluttered in the end. It's wall of sound on some tracks like Catcher which makes sense. I thought keyboards in rock was from the 70s and in the 90s the 70s were back. Maybe from a really metal pov a keyboard is pretentious, first rock record I got was Hysteria and grew up on 80s pop, so keyboards I just normal. I guess I found NIN in the techno sectiom of a record store, it was like electronica. I never thought of NIN and Manson as arty but I guess they were. Very theatrical. Keyboards do lend that dimension. I'm not sure they added it to be high art though, that was just part of their lineage or influences. It's just a keyboard man!

 

I do think elements of nu metal though here and there. There's a Muse type thing going on Shackler's. Ron put in that sort 00s prog rock element. There's definitely a lot to take in and it's fair enough that some don't like it or think it's not hard rock or whatever. It has this ear candy element too which goes with itunes. It reminds of those 90s records from Faith no more or Bungle where on first listen you can't take it all in. It takes a while but then the songs emerge. It's not very radio friendly. It is diametrically oppsed to rock in a way. It almost like the fetishization of rock it's so detailed.  I doubt it was planned its just with all those players and production team and Axl it could happen organically. 

CD is just a subjective record because it divides more fans than any other guns records. The reason why CD sounded the way it did is because Axl was obviously into whatever musical trend was at the time. I dis agree with the comment "CD was put together like AFD with all these different influences on one record,". CD you hear the influences, with AFD I cant hear any of the bands influences come into the record and that album sounded nothing like the usual 80's drivel that was being recorded at that time. The band didn't look much less sound like anyone at the time which is the reason why AFD sounds so ferocious, and why every band at that time tried to do metal ballads. Guns WAS the influence in the hard rock world during that time. With CD you hear the influences of all 90's nu-metal bands rolled into one. Personally if Axl had released CD during the nu metal time perhaps 96 it would have done well, when my ears hears the album  the music was released in the wrong decade. He was basically 10 years to late releasing it. The beeps on CD is on par with radiohead, . Personally and I think im right, that nu-metal didn't hold up as a style for very long because it wasn't organic music and had a shorter lifespan than what grunge did. When I listen to CD now and even when I gave it a few spins when It came out I could hear the influences but thought the guy had released the album 10 years to late, and albums like that don't age well. AFD was the right album at the right time which is why it has a major impact in the music world and will be documented in music magazines in years/decades to come.....but will CD?

Edited by Sydney Fan
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6 minutes ago, Sydney Fan said:

CD is just a subjective record because it divides more fans than any other guns records. The reason why CD sounded the way it did is because Axl was obviously into whatever musical trend was at the time. I dis agree with the comment "CD was put together like AFD with all these different influences on one record,". CD you hear the influences, with AFD I cant hear any of the bands influences come into the record and that album sounded nothing like the usual 80's drivel that was being recorded at that time. The band didn't look much less sound like anyone at the time which is the reason why AFD sounds so ferocious, and why every band at that time tried to do metal ballads. Guns WAS the influence in the hard rock world during that time. With CD you hear the influences of all 90's nu-metal bands rolled into one. Personally if Axl had released CD during the nu metal time perhaps 96 it would have done well, when my ears hears the album  the music was released in the wrong decade. He was basically 10 years to late releasing it. The beeps on CD is on par with radiohead, . Personally and I think im right, that nu-metal didn't hold up as a style for very long because it wasn't organic music and had a shorter lifespan than what grunge did. When I listen to CD now and even when I gave it a few spins when It came out I could hear the influences but thought the guy had released the album 10 years to late.

I've thought about this and for AFD was one of the first hard rock records I heard. I had Hysteria before that, I'd heard Europe on radio Luxemberg. So I wasn't really prepared to hear the influences. But now after listening to Aerosmith, DC, Zepp, Queen, Pistols, VH, I think I wouldn't have been as blown away. So I think I would have picked it apart more. But still I think it's Slash, he has a unique style, even though part of a lineage. They are the real deal, it's obvious. 

With CD I lived through those styles. So when they pop up, I recognise it. And I think maybe that's how AFD was made too, each member brings their style and it gets boiled down. Just like CD, Finck brings something like Better, Bucket does something that becomes Shackler's, but it's way after NIN and Korn were really out. Same with AFD, the influences on there are at least 10 years later, I just wasn't primed to hear them. But I see what you're saying about AFD in that it was showcasing these new talents, really doing something special. The stars aligned. But CD still has that mixing pot of influences. And just like AFD it's really not of the time. AFD was 70s in the 80s, I hadn't heard that kind of thing but I guess others had. Same with CD, 90s in the 00s. If I hadn't heard the 90s stuff, I'd be what the F is this? I'm not sure I would be able to pick it apart. I wish I could hear it those kind of ears. To hear CD then find that Finck was in NIN, then go listen to NIN. That would cool. Like hearing AFD and then going to find Aerosmith or Zepp. Hanoi Rock is one I listened to and really felt this is very close to Guns, Thin Lizzy too. Before that AFD was like this alien technology coming out of my tape player. It actually sounded futuristic in a way. I listen to stuff around that time and It's So Easy was still a different planet. Kind of how I see Shackler's, there's the Korn Zombie element but still it has much swagger and vibe than those. You can't really pin it down. 

So everyone will experience things different i reckon. 

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On 6/11/2017 at 10:13 PM, Original said:

Nah.  They probably only truly hated each other for "only" 8 years ('95-2003). 

If even that long, imo.  "Hate" is a strong word....I'd say it was closer to a "whatever"....or not really caring what the other was doing.  I think things really settled down after CD was released....pretty sure Slash even came out and said he liked some of CD.  Of course, there were the incidents of not being able to wear Slash t-shirts at G N' R shows and Slash not being let in one of the shows....but tbh, in hindsight I think that came from Axl being disgustingly tired of fans, media, etc constantly asking him whether or not he and Slash would reunite....so the hate was really generated by fans/media vs him hating Slash himself, per se.

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