Minus 3 or Minus 1?

[ludurigan]

2 hours ago, GnR Chris said:

he didn't even do much of that in the Illusions years. He brought in his ideas and split.

please stop embarrasing yourself and spreading nonsense. go read some GNR articles, books and interviews and then you will notice how much nonsense it is to say that izzy "brought his ideas and split"

complete utter nonsense

[StrangerInThisTown]

I really want Izzy to write with them. But Im not judging Fortus until I've heard him on a new song. Maybe it'll be really good also, but not a fan of the work he did so far with other bands

[soon]

6 hours ago, Free Bird said:

Where do you got this info from? I never heard of that before. I know Duff is listed as co-writer for Beggars but Izzys involvement is new to me.

Im sure I originally got it from the cd booklet when I got it in 1995, but I cant find that now.  I would hate to be spreading misinformation, but its just like I know Axl is credited with Estranged for so long I wouldn't think to check... I know Izzy is, but I could be wrong.  Does someone have the booklet?

 

Online stuff is split up the middle from what i just checked.

 

For what its worth these online resources confirm it as well.  Izzy is listed:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It's_Five_O'Clock_Somewhere_(album)

http://www.classicrockforums.com/forum/f37/slashs-snakepit-its-five-oclock-somewhere-1995-a-31984/

 

and maybe this one confirms but Im not sure:

http://metal.nightfall.fr/index_796_slash-s-snakepit-it-s-five-o-clock-font-classpol1-font.html

 

and these do not, Izzy not listed:

https://www.discogs.com/Slashs-Snakepit-Its-Five-OClock-Somewhere/release/820342

http://www.slashparadise.com/discography/albums-slash-snakepit-1995-its-five-o-clock-somewhere.php

[GnR Chris]

1 hour ago, ludurigan said:

please stop embarrasing yourself and spreading nonsense. go read some GNR articles, books and interviews and then you will notice how much nonsense it is to say that izzy "brought his ideas and split"

complete utter nonsense

I could honestly just not remember it right. It's been so long since I read about the Illusions years. Can you enlighten me?

From what I recall, the band took issue with Izzy not wanting to flesh out any of his songs. He came in with them written as is as kind of "I'm done dealing with this" sort of thing. And then Slash recorded both rhythm and lead for the records. 

Again, if I'm not remembering right or misinformed, please correct me. I don't say that sarcastically.

Edited June 10, 2017 by GnR Chris

[nonok]

1 hour ago, ludurigan said:

Izzy helped Slash write Locomotive. Slash said it himsellf in his book.

There is zero evidence that Izzy didnt help with the other tracks. He surely must have helped with something, specially arrangements and song structure.

Yes, he probably helped with some of the tracks I listed, but his part was insignificant compared to what he did on YCBM, Patience, the songs he sang, DTJ, Bad Obsession, Pretty Tied Up etc.

The majority of Locomotive was written by Slash, because it sounds so obviously Slash. The rhythm sounds amazing, although I'm not sure if Izzy plays all of it or just parts of it. I think his part is not that big, but I could be wrong. As for the lyrics, it's all Axl and it's amazing stuff.

I remember seeing somewhere that Izzy was so annoyed with the numerous chord progressions in Coma that he didn't even play on that song. Slash wrote it and the band completed it without Izzy. The lyrics, again, are purely Axl.

The credits for Civil War list Axl, Slash and Duff as the main songwriters. Izzy may have helped, but again, insignificantly. Estranged is iconic because of the lead guitar, the lyrics and (for some) the piano. Meaning Axl and Slash (similarly November Rain is GNR's most famous song and had little to do with Izzy).

I'm not trying to demean Izzy's role, because god did he write beautiful and iconic masterpieces and they can never replace him, I'm just saying that GNR have proven they can make wonderful songs without him. Well, in the past, at least.

[Free Bird]

35 minutes ago, soon said:

Im sure I originally got it from the cd booklet when I got it in 1995, but I cant find that now.  I would hate to be spreading misinformation, but its just like I know Axl is credited with Estranged for so long I wouldn't think to check... I know Izzy is, but I could be wrong.  Does someone have the booklet?

 

Online stuff is split up the middle from what i just checked.

 

For what its worth these online resources confirm it as well.  Izzy is listed:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It's_Five_O'Clock_Somewhere_(album)

http://www.classicrockforums.com/forum/f37/slashs-snakepit-its-five-oclock-somewhere-1995-a-31984/

 

and maybe this one confirms but Im not sure:

http://metal.nightfall.fr/index_796_slash-s-snakepit-it-s-five-o-clock-font-classpol1-font.html

 

and these do not, Izzy not listed:

https://www.discogs.com/Slashs-Snakepit-Its-Five-OClock-Somewhere/release/820342

http://www.slashparadise.com/discography/albums-slash-snakepit-1995-its-five-o-clock-somewhere.php

Like I said, that's new to me and I don't know how reliable those sources are.

My booklet is from the mid 90s as well and Izzy is not listed. That doesn't mean necessarily that he wasn't part of the songwriting process, but it's the most reliable source I think.

 

 

 

 

[soon]

1 minute ago, Free Bird said:

Like I said, that's new to me and I don't know how reliable those sources are.

My booklet is from the mid 90s as well and Izzy is not listed. That doesn't mean necessarily that he wasn't part of the songwriting process, but it's the most reliable source I think.

 

 

 

 

hmm, Im glad that you flagged it.  If you've got the booklet thats pretty much conclusive about the credit.  But yeah, Im sure mine did, but could be mistaken.  But clearly Im not the only one who thinks he was part of it.  

I thought it solely from memory from when I first got the album, but today when i looked into it, others also think he co wrote it.  Half of the credit listings I found online contain credit to izzy, even though the booklet is the authority.  I wonder what the source of this belief is?

 

 

[gnfnrs1972]

16 hours ago, Fourteenbeers said:

But seriously, I always thought  Izzy was the balancing factor in the songwriting process - the one preventing that the songs didn't become overly pompous, overproduced clusterfucks.

For me overdoing /overproducing/ more is more -attitude takes the feeling a way from the music and makes it kind of exhausting to listen to.  But that's just my opinion.. 

 

 

 

I know everyone has different tastes. Izzy's solo career has shown me....in my opinion....that he brings not that much to the table in the studio. As far as a touring member he is so obscure and boring that some people think Fortus is Izzy. If people here think he is a major component to GNR I respect their wrong opinion.

[Fourteenbeers]

10 minutes ago, gnfnrs1972 said:

I know everyone has different tastes. Izzy's solo career has shown me....in my opinion....that he brings not that much to the table in the studio. As far as a touring member he is so obscure and boring that some people think Fortus is Izzy. If people here think he is a major component to GNR I respect their wrong opinion.

Well, you are very gracious. Thank you for that. 

[ludurigan]

4 hours ago, nonok said:

Yes, he probably helped with some of the tracks I listed, but his part was insignificant compared to what he did on YCBM, Patience, the songs he sang, DTJ, Bad Obsession, Pretty Tied Up etc.

The majority of Locomotive was written by Slash, because it sounds so obviously Slash. The rhythm sounds amazing, although I'm not sure if Izzy plays all of it or just parts of it. I think his part is not that big, but I could be wrong. As for the lyrics, it's all Axl and it's amazing stuff.

I remember seeing somewhere that Izzy was so annoyed with the numerous chord progressions in Coma that he didn't even play on that song. Slash wrote it and the band completed it without Izzy. The lyrics, again, are purely Axl.

The credits for Civil War list Axl, Slash and Duff as the main songwriters. Izzy may have helped, but again, insignificantly. Estranged is iconic because of the lead guitar, the lyrics and (for some) the piano. Meaning Axl and Slash (similarly November Rain is GNR's most famous song and had little to do with Izzy).

I'm not trying to demean Izzy's role, because god did he write beautiful and iconic masterpieces and they can never replace him, I'm just saying that GNR have proven they can make wonderful songs without him. Well, in the past, at least.

there is absolutely no evidence that izzy's input/help on writing, arranging and structuring those songs "was insignificant". thats pure speculation.

LOCOMOTIVE = Slash himself stated that he wrote Locomotive with Izzy. You can verify it on this french version of his book on google (couldnt find the english version)...

https://books.google.com.br/books?id=Z3PKCQAAQBAJ&pg=PT325&lpg=PT325&dq=slash+%22anthony+bozza%22+%22locomotive%22+%22izzy%22&source=bl&ots=d4cBai5um1&sig=Z8pNugfjTxo62AsAZ5flTLT1plo&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj7iZClmpLLAhVGhJAKHbQ0BaEQ6AEINjAE#v=onepage&q=slash%20%22anthony%20bozza%22%20%22locomotive%22%20%22izzy%22&f=false

...and you can also check it here another Slash quote where he says that he wrote Locomotive with Izzy...

MY NEXT HOME WAS A HOUSE IZZY AND I rented up in the Hollywood Hills, and that lasted for about a month. It was partially furnished with all the basics that one might need—beds, a microwave, all of it. We had fun while we were there and I also managed to write a lot; I wrote “Coma,” and the two of us wrote “Locomotive” in that house; there was some creativity going on.

Here = http://mreadz.com/new/index.php?id=2729&pages=54

COMA = yeah thats a famous Izzy quote about Coma.

"Slash has this song, it's called 'Coma', and it's fuckin' 15 minutes long. And I still don't know it, man. I have to take a special chord chart with me whenever we play it. There's like 50 chords at the end of it and I just can't follow them."

here = http://www.a-4-d.com/t100-coma
On the original magazine quote the reporter says that Stradlin starts winding the tape forward in search of a song he can't stop laughing about. "Slash has this song, it's called 'Coma', and it's fuckin' 15 minutes long. And I still don't know it, man. I have to take a special chord chart with me whenever we play it. There's like 50 chords at the end of it and I just can't follow them."

here = http://www.oocities.org/rattlesnake_suitcase/vox91.htm

So basically Izzy is saying that Coma is a Slash's song (Slash must have written most of it and Izzy must have had a limited input in the writing, if any at all, which doesnt mean he didnt help arranging and structuring it) and that he finds it hard to play due to the many chord changes.

He is NOT sayin that "he was so annoyed with the numerous chord progressions" and he is definetely not saying that "he didn't even play on that song".

If Izzy's guitar is not on the album it is because Slash erased it and re-recorded it. All accounts point that Slash purposedly erased and re-recorded some of Izzy's parts on the Illusion albums because SLASH (and maybe AXL) felt that Izzy's sound wasnt big enough or whatever. Apparently they didnt even tell Izzy that they erased and/or lowered the volume of his guitars, so Izzy apparently was somewhat shocked when he listened to the album for the first time because he could barely hear himself. Just a classy act, these Axl and Slash guys.

CIVIL WAR = "but again, insignificantly" -- thats also PURE SPECULATION. Civil War has great dynamics, tremendous crescendo parts, it flows really well and it rocks real hard. You listen to Slash and Axl and Duff solo stuf and they have a HARD TIME doing that on their songs, so it really looks like Izzy gave a hand to these guys. Even if he didnt write the bulk of the song, he certainly helped structuring and arranging it in the way it is, and that's likely why that song feels like a song -- and not like a frankestein of riffs and parts like much of Slash and Axl solo songs.

same can be said about every song of the illusion albums

[ludurigan]

5 hours ago, GnR Chris said:

I could honestly just not remember it right. It's been so long since I read about the Illusions years. Can you enlighten me?

From what I recall, the band took issue with Izzy not wanting to flesh out any of his songs. He came in with them written as is as kind of "I'm done dealing with this" sort of thing. And then Slash recorded both rhythm and lead for the records. 

Again, if I'm not remembering right or misinformed, please correct me. I don't say that sarcastically.

 

by all accounts, izzy has written or helped writing a lot of (most of) the songs on the illusion albums.

by all accounts, izzy has helped to arrange/structure all of the songs on the illusion albums, including those songs (like, say Coma or November Rain) that he didnt have a big (or any) input in writing.

by all accounts, izzy recorded guitar for all songs.

by all accounts, slash erased some of the parts izzy had recorded and lowered the volume of many other parts. classy stuff

Edited June 10, 2017 by ludurigan

[Darkenchantress]

2 hours ago, gnfnrs1972 said:

 As far as a touring member he is so obscure and boring that some people think Fortus is Izzy.

That says more about people's ignorance than about Izzy's stage presence, to be honest.

Now, about the main topic, I enjoyed the show the other day but I'm not interested in new GnR music without Izzy. 

[BorderlineCrazy]

Regardless of what anyone might think about Izzy's solo records, Guns N' Roses albums prove that Izzy Stradlin is one of the greatest rock n' roll songwriters EVER.

You Could Be Mine, Nightrain, Patience, Don't Cry... Izzy is a fn' legend! 

[Izzymacbeth]

12 hours ago, GnR Chris said:

I could honestly just not remember it right. It's been so long since I read about the Illusions years. Can you enlighten me?

From what I recall, the band took issue with Izzy not wanting to flesh out any of his songs. He came in with them written as is as kind of "I'm done dealing with this" sort of thing. And then Slash recorded both rhythm and lead for the records. 

Again, if I'm not remembering right or misinformed, please correct me. I don't say that sarcastically.

Slash played Izzy's parts on Civil War (recorded when he was in Europe drying out), The Garden and Locomotive ONLY. Axl plays rhythm guitar on Shotgun Blues.

Every other song has Izzy on rhythm guitar, occasionally lead guitar, acoustic guitar or sitar, most of them he does backing vocals and he sings lead vocals on 14 Years, You Aint The First, Dust N' Bones and Double Talkin' Jive. 

As a pro musician heavily influenced by Izzy's playing his style, phrasing, syncopation and tone are unmistakable. He is on those songs but Yesterdays and So Fine he is so low in the mix he can't be heard. For whatever reason he is so low on those 2. Everything else perfect imo. 

Edited June 11, 2017 by Izzymacbeth

[Cold Jen Time]

14 hours ago, gnfnrs1972 said:

I know everyone has different tastes. Izzy's solo career has shown me....in my opinion....that he brings not that much to the table in the studio. As far as a touring member he is so obscure and boring that some people think Fortus is Izzy. If people here think he is a major component to GNR I respect their wrong opinion.

Those people who think Fortus is Izzy are the same people behind me at the show who asked what I thought the band would open with.  When I told them "It's So Easy" had typically been the opener, they looked at me, blankly, and said "what's that?"

Personally, like @Darkenchantress said, I'm not interested in new music without Izzy.  I'm not saying they aren't important or good songs, but I couldn't get into an album full of nothing but November Rains, Estrangeds, and Civil Wars ... which is what we'd get, IMO.

[BangoSkank]

Izzy just doesn't want to be involved, so I don't even dwell on it.

[Free Bird]

On 10.6.2017 at 11:49 PM, ludurigan said:

there is absolutely no evidence that izzy's input/help on writing, arranging and structuring those songs "was insignificant". thats pure speculation.

LOCOMOTIVE = Slash himself stated that he wrote Locomotive with Izzy. You can verify it on this french version of his book on google (couldnt find the english version)...

https://books.google.com.br/books?id=Z3PKCQAAQBAJ&pg=PT325&lpg=PT325&dq=slash+%22anthony+bozza%22+%22locomotive%22+%22izzy%22&source=bl&ots=d4cBai5um1&sig=Z8pNugfjTxo62AsAZ5flTLT1plo&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj7iZClmpLLAhVGhJAKHbQ0BaEQ6AEINjAE#v=onepage&q=slash%20%22anthony%20bozza%22%20%22locomotive%22%20%22izzy%22&f=false

...and you can also check it here another Slash quote where he says that he wrote Locomotive with Izzy...

MY NEXT HOME WAS A HOUSE IZZY AND I rented up in the Hollywood Hills, and that lasted for about a month. It was partially furnished with all the basics that one might need—beds, a microwave, all of it. We had fun while we were there and I also managed to write a lot; I wrote “Coma,” and the two of us wrote “Locomotive” in that house; there was some creativity going on.

Here = http://mreadz.com/new/index.php?id=2729&pages=54

COMA = yeah thats a famous Izzy quote about Coma.

"Slash has this song, it's called 'Coma', and it's fuckin' 15 minutes long. And I still don't know it, man. I have to take a special chord chart with me whenever we play it. There's like 50 chords at the end of it and I just can't follow them."

here = http://www.a-4-d.com/t100-coma
On the original magazine quote the reporter says that Stradlin starts winding the tape forward in search of a song he can't stop laughing about. "Slash has this song, it's called 'Coma', and it's fuckin' 15 minutes long. And I still don't know it, man. I have to take a special chord chart with me whenever we play it. There's like 50 chords at the end of it and I just can't follow them."

here = http://www.oocities.org/rattlesnake_suitcase/vox91.htm

So basically Izzy is saying that Coma is a Slash's song (Slash must have written most of it and Izzy must have had a limited input in the writing, if any at all, which doesnt mean he didnt help arranging and structuring it) and that he finds it hard to play due to the many chord changes.

He is NOT sayin that "he was so annoyed with the numerous chord progressions" and he is definetely not saying that "he didn't even play on that song".

If Izzy's guitar is not on the album it is because Slash erased it and re-recorded it. All accounts point that Slash purposedly erased and re-recorded some of Izzy's parts on the Illusion albums because SLASH (and maybe AXL) felt that Izzy's sound wasnt big enough or whatever. Apparently they didnt even tell Izzy that they erased and/or lowered the volume of his guitars, so Izzy apparently was somewhat shocked when he listened to the album for the first time because he could barely hear himself. Just a classy act, these Axl and Slash guys.

CIVIL WAR = "but again, insignificantly" -- thats also PURE SPECULATION. Civil War has great dynamics, tremendous crescendo parts, it flows really well and it rocks real hard. You listen to Slash and Axl and Duff solo stuf and they have a HARD TIME doing that on their songs, so it really looks like Izzy gave a hand to these guys. Even if he didnt write the bulk of the song, he certainly helped structuring and arranging it in the way it is, and that's likely why that song feels like a song -- and not like a frankestein of riffs and parts like much of Slash and Axl solo songs.

same can be said about every song of the illusion albums

I'm not judging about right or wrong on this topic and we all know GNRs booklets don't tell necessarily the truth. But just as somebody who refers to the booklets can't be sure about the songwriting process your points are speculation, too.

And it's not like there aren't structure and dynamics in some Slash's and Axl's songs too. The first Snakepit record, Mother Maria, By The Sword, Anastasia... VR stuff, Better, Madagascar, TWAT. 

I don't want to deny Izzy's importance for Guns but to me some posters reduce Axl's and Slash's importance to much. In the end it was a band effort. That's what made them huge. And if three of them are involved in writing new music, that's definitely better than what they have done solely.

Edited June 12, 2017 by Free Bird

[ludurigan]

5 hours ago, Free Bird said:

I'm not judging about right or wrong on this topic and we all know GNRs booklets don't tell necessarily the truth. But just as somebody who refers to the booklets can't be sure about the songwriting process your points are speculation, too.

And it's not like there aren't structure and dynamics in some Slash's and Axl's songs too. The first Snakepit record, Mother Maria, By The Sword, Anastasia... VR stuff, Better, Madagascar, TWAT. 

I don't want to deny Izzy's importance for Guns but to me some posters reduce Axl's and Slash's importance to much. In the end it was a band effort. That's what made them huge. And if three of them are involved in writing new music, that's definitely better than what they have done solely.

yeah no one knows for sure and there is surely speculation on it but based on all interviews and books andwhatnot i'd say it is far to say that izzy had involvement in the writing of most illusion tracks and also it's safe to say that he had a hand in arranging and structuring ALL of the illusion-era tracks.

i agree 100% with you that it was the band effort that made them huge -- to me, they were the best band ever -- the classic example of "the whole is greater than the sum of its parts"

the fact that I keep mentioning izzy (and steven) as crucial people to the GNR sound is because they are OUT of GNR this nonsense threeunion guns n aliens tour

and its so obvious how much they are missed because the sound of the band is completely different (awful, speedy, grooveless) without them -- it really, really sucks

(maybe if axl had his 80's/early 90's voice and swagger and mojo it would be bearable to listen to this nonsense reunion cause axl voice and delivery were so unbelievable from 1985-1991 -- even in 1992-1993 he had stellar moments -- that he could turn even the most generic song into a masterpiece. but unfortunatelly that's not the case)

i mean, if it was axl or slash who were out of the band, i'd be "advocating" for them just the same -- maybe even more. because just like izzy, axl and slash are essential to GNR.

duff, in my book, is great but can be replaced. steven, in my book, is the best drummer ever but also can be replaced by a decent drummer. not that i'd like that.

i dont really agree with you on the structure and dynamics thing. to me there are very few songs who have great structure and dynamics on slash, axl and duff's solo career. pretty much all the songs you mentioned are, to me, clear examples of great ideas wasted on bad songs dynamics and structure. some of the ideas of the songs you mentioned (licks, riffs, vocal melodies) are SO FUCKING GREAT that you even "forgive" (and forget) that they live in a badly structured/arranged song. What I am saying is that if you get the main ideas of these songs you mentioned and give them to people that can write, arrange and structure songs (like izzy, for example, but he is definetely not the only person in the world capable of that), these things most likely would become absolute CLASSIC music, like A+++ top quality music. problem is that they lack a lot of simple things (mostly dynamics and structure) so they actually sound good (sometimes even great) but never reach that "masterpiece" "GNR-like" quality.

VR is a great example of that. Most of the songs have a one, two or three great things going for them, be it a riff, a groove, a hook... and then you get all excited with the song but midway the song takes a turn for the worse and loses momentum. it happens a lot.

izzy's solo material lacks a bit of "sense of drama" (he's a bit too laid back at times) -- thats is something that axl and slash are masters of. but it almost never fails on song structure and dynamics. Surely, he has like more than a 100 sonngs released and some of them have actually "lazy" song structures, but his best material is right up there with GNR when it comes to structure and dynamics. 

that's why i am stilll waiting for a GNR reunion.

no one can touch these guys together

they were the best band in the planet and I deeply believe that they willl become just that -- the best fucking band in the planet -- in the very minute they get together again.

 

Edited June 12, 2017 by ludurigan

[Lies They Tell]

Love Izzy and his songwriting, but an album by Axl, Slash and Duff, will be great. I have no doubt about that.

[Free Bird]

1 hour ago, ludurigan said:

yeah no one knows for sure and there is surely speculation on it but based on all interviews and books andwhatnot i'd say it is far to say that izzy had involvement in the writing of most illusion tracks and also it's safe to say that he had a hand in arranging and structuring ALL of the illusion-era tracks.

i agree 100% with you that it was the band effort that made them huge -- to me, they were the best band ever -- the classic example of "the whole is greater than the sum of its parts"

the fact that I keep mentioning izzy (and steven) as crucial people to the GNR sound is because they are OUT of GNR this nonsense threeunion guns n aliens tour

and its so obvious how much they are missed because the sound of the band is completely different (awful, speedy, grooveless) without them -- it really, really sucks

(maybe if axl had his 80's/early 90's voice and swagger and mojo it would be bearable to listen to this nonsense reunion cause axl voice and delivery were so unbelievable from 1985-1991 -- even in 1992-1993 he had stellar moments -- that he could turn even the most generic song into a masterpiece. but unfortunatelly that's not the case)

i mean, if it was axl or slash who were out of the band, i'd be "advocating" for them just the same -- maybe even more. because just like izzy, axl and slash are essential to GNR.

duff, in my book, is great but can be replaced. steven, in my book, is the best drummer ever but also can be replaced by a decent drummer. not that i'd like that.

i dont really agree with you on the structure and dynamics thing. to me there are very few songs who have great structure and dynamics on slash, axl and duff's solo career. pretty much all the songs you mentioned are, to me, clear examples of great ideas wasted on bad songs dynamics and structure. some of the ideas of the songs you mentioned (licks, riffs, vocal melodies) are SO FUCKING GREAT that you even "forgive" (and forget) that they live in a badly structured/arranged song. What I am saying is that if you get the main ideas of these songs you mentioned and give them to people that can write, arrange and structure songs (like izzy, for example, but he is definetely not the only person in the world capable of that), these things most likely would become absolute CLASSIC music, like A+++ top quality music. problem is that they lack a lot of simple things (mostly dynamics and structure) so they actually sound good (sometimes even great) but never reach that "masterpiece" "GNR-like" quality.

VR is a great example of that. Most of the songs have a one, two or three great things going for them, be it a riff, a groove, a hook... and then you get all excited with the song but midway the song takes a turn for the worse and loses momentum. it happens a lot.

izzy's solo material lacks a bit of "sense of drama" (he's a bit too laid back at times) -- thats is something that axl and slash are masters of. but it almost never fails on song structure and dynamics. Surely, he has like more than a 100 sonngs released and some of them have actually "lazy" song structures, but his best material is right up there with GNR when it comes to structure and dynamics. 

that's why i am stilll waiting for a GNR reunion.

no one can touch these guys together

they were the best band in the planet and I deeply believe that they willl become just that -- the best fucking band in the planet -- in the very minute they get together again.

 

Well I don't know to be honest. Let's take the first snakepit record. To me there are song structure and dynamics all over the record. Having said that, I have no doubt with the input of Axl and Izzy this album would be HUGE. 

Maybe I'm not that hard to please, or my knowledge is insufficient, I don't know. All I know is I like their music even though they'll never reach the quality they set with Guns. 

And -of course a matter of taste again- related to their solo work I prefer much more Slash songs than Izzy songs. Then again, qualitywise Sweet Caress is probably the best song ever written outside of GNR from a AFD Member. Inclouding Axl's CD.

[Stoymatic]

do not matter as long as we get new music from any GNR!!!!!!!!!!!

[ludurigan]

3 hours ago, Free Bird said:

Well I don't know to be honest. Let's take the first snakepit record. To me there are song structure and dynamics all over the record. Having said that, I have no doubt with the input of Axl and Izzy this album would be HUGE. 

Maybe I'm not that hard to please, or my knowledge is insufficient, I don't know. All I know is I like their music even though they'll never reach the quality they set with Guns. 

And -of course a matter of taste again- related to their solo work I prefer much more Slash songs than Izzy songs. Then again, qualitywise Sweet Caress is probably the best song ever written outside of GNR from a AFD Member. Inclouding Axl's CD.

i like the first snakepit album too. I think exactly the same as you -- give those songs to axl and izzy and we would have HUGE songs with top quality right up there with best GNR songs!

same can be said about izzy songs -- give them to axl and slash and we would have... GNR!

[Free Bird]

3 hours ago, ludurigan said:

i like the first snakepit album too. I think exactly the same as you -- give those songs to axl and izzy and we would have HUGE songs with top quality right up there with best GNR songs!

same can be said about izzy songs -- give them to axl and slash and we would have... GNR!

Without a doubt!

[J Dog]

I'd love for Izzy to be involved, but I feel like Ax/Slash/Duff can make a good enough record if they don't have him.

[ludurigan]

On 6/12/2017 at 0:58 PM, Free Bird said:

Maybe I'm not that hard to please, or my knowledge is insufficient, I don't know. All I know is I like their music even though they'll never reach the quality they set with Guns.

I was wondering about "knowledge" specially "musical knowledge" and i remembered a quote from the great Tostao (Brazil 1970 football world champion) when he says something about great players doing great/magic stuff on the field. Tostao says something like "these players know how to do (the magic stuff) but they probably dont know how they know", meaning that sometimes they take instinctive actions on the field (they do not have time to think it over) and it works -- but if you ask them how they did the "megic stuff" they will likely have a bit of a hard time to explain "how" or even "why" they did it.

I think something similar happens to guys like Izzy when it comes to songwriting/arranging/structuring songs, to Slash when it comes to create a riff, or to Axl when it comes to create a vocal melody. When Izzy takes a song to this direction instead of that direction, it is likely due to his instinct and to what feels/sounds right to him, a kind of knowledge that he likely didnt take from any book but probably is inside hime because of all the years he spent listening to music -- he uses to say how much the Ramones were influential to him and you can tell that in GNR and in his solo music.

This sorta knowledge can not really be taught in any music school I suppose!