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It seems most believe wanted to get back in with gnr, go full time and be equal in all areas. I personally think that's a little far fetched considering Izzy's solo career, his sporadic appearances and just about everything we know about the guy.

A record without Izzy. Sure why not. I don't underestimate the role Izzy played, and yes he helped write and wrote some of the best gnr songs... But I think the 3 and the others can create something worthwhile IF they ever get around to making music. I would like to see some Izzy writing credits, but if not? We've still got a lot more than anybody here ever expected (as in the current tour... Not albums... Obviously ?).

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I'm with the OP, Fortus should not be part of any new album for the same reason Gilby wasn't. That is not Guns N' Roses. Period.

There is a very crucial fact that a lot of people here are overlooking:

THE DUELING GUITARS OF IZZY AND SLASH

That, in and of itself, is legendary and it is sorely missed on UYI. UYI would have been so much better with Izzy and Slash trading off riffs together. Another point - Izzy is great at arranging songs and balancing out the "Liberace" factor in Axl and the noodling of Slash. He gives the songs foundation and a timeless feel. You lose that instantly without his involvement and Axl/Slash's worst instincts get turned up to 11.

You can't look at this band like Axl did in the 90's where you can just randomly sub people in and out. It doesn't work that way. Buckethead is an amazing guitarist - did that experiment work for Axl?  Was it a good fit? Tommy Stinson is a punk rock guitarist - did he write anything as memorable as Duff's bass lines? Fortus is a great guitarist , but ask yourself first if he is right for Guns? Does he bring out the best in Duff and Slash like Izzy does? Let's not forget, again - Izzy and Slash are a legendary, hall of fame duo.

Sure - Axl, Duff, and Slash can put together a great album. But the fact remains, they're missing a crucial ingredient to their formula/success. It's like having the best cut of steak that has been cooked perfectly and served on a fancy plate but instead of seasoning it properly, they threw ketchup on it. That's what this version of GUNS feels like. 

 

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I don't think there is anyone who wouldn't like seeing Izzy on board. For nostalgic reasons (because let's face it, that's part of it too), but mainly for his significant contributions.  

But the question is, can they make a good album without him? He'd be sorely missed, but I think they can. There are GnR songs that I consider GnR worthy in which he probably didn't contribute anything to creatively speaking. Of course it wouldn't be the same, but even with all 5 original members on board it wouldn't be the same. It's 30 years later, it's a different situation, they're very different people now, they are over their creative peak as songwriters.

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No idea if a true Axl/Slash/Duff album of original material will ever happen- but would have no problem if it did. Would be fascinating to hear what they could do together w/o Izzy. Would no doubt settle a lot things once and for all (either direction)...

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I think the longer they stay together the more it's possible that we might see Perfect Crime someday.

How great would that be ... at first a new record and then Perfect Crime, I would pee my pants. 

Unfortunately it's more likely that none of that will ever happen.

Edited by Free Bird
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I laugh at people who think VR and Slash solo material as well as CD material is kickass but throw them together and they couldn't make a good album without Izzy. I mean honestly if that doesn't deserve a "pull your head out of your ass" response I don't know what does. 

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1 hour ago, Bono said:

I laugh at people who think VR and Slash solo material as well as CD material is kickass but throw them together and they couldn't make a good album without Izzy. I mean honestly if that doesn't deserve a "pull your head out of your ass" response I don't know what does. 

But they couldn't though -- they tried many times in the 90's to no avail. He gave the GNR songs structure and a backbone - when he left, there was no skeleton for the others to build upon. So you have a bunch of Slash riffs sitting in the vault and Axl on pro-tools trying to patch them together into a song. 

Could they put together a good album? Theoretically - yes. The talent is there. Will it be as good as it could have been with Izzy? Of course not. GnR has a winning formula with the AFD 5. The further they got from it, the more mixed their results. 

The idea of putting Fortus in the album is like pissing in the stew. It's one thing for Axl to do a solo album and recruit players for his band - it's another thing entirely for the classic band to replace two originals on a record. Just one replacement barely worked on UYI (most people hate the drumming on those albums) - but now you're talking about replacing 1/2 of the songwriting team and 1/2 of a legendary guitar duo. I don't know man. Is that even guns anymore?

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1 hour ago, RONIN said:

But they couldn't though -- they tried many times in the 90's to no avail. He gave the GNR songs structure and a backbone - when he left, there was no skeleton for the others to build upon. So you have a bunch of Slash riffs sitting in the vault and Axl on pro-tools trying to patch them together into a song. 

Could they put together a good album? Theoretically - yes. The talent is there. Will it be as good as it could have been with Izzy? Of course not. GnR has a winning formula with the AFD 5. The further they got from it, the more mixed their results. 

The idea of putting Fortus in the album is like pissing in the stew. It's one thing for Axl to do a solo album and recruit players for his band - it's another thing entirely for the classic band to replace two originals on a record. Just one replacement barely worked on UYI (most people hate the drumming on those albums) - but now you're talking about replacing 1/2 of the songwriting team and 1/2 of a legendary guitar duo. I don't know man. Is that even guns anymore?

It's definitely not 1/2 of the songwriting team. That's bullshit.

And no, it's not true either that most people hate Matts drumming. Most people don't even care. The harcore fans prefer Steven's drumming but that doesn't mean they hate Matt's.

They tried to make an album in the mid 90's. Duff and Slash were in a very bad shape and they had a singer who wasn't around. Nobody had hear him sing for years. They didn't talk to each other, nobody knew the direction of the new music, they were looking for a second guitarist... eventually they were forced to work with Paul Tobias... 

There were completely different circumstances by the time. Doing a record just wasn't possible, with or without Izzy who was there for a short time as we know.

It's like Bono said. Some people here love CD, some love VR, some love Slash's solo stuff.

Some love all of that!

A record by Axl, Slash and Duff would be killer! 

 

Edited by Free Bird
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5 hours ago, RONIN said:

But they couldn't though -- they tried many times in the 90's to no avail. He gave the GNR songs structure and a backbone - when he left, there was no skeleton for the others to build upon. So you have a bunch of Slash riffs sitting in the vault and Axl on pro-tools trying to patch them together into a song. 

So in your opinion the GnR songs where Izzy didn't have a hand in are not GnR worthy? Or are you one of those people who think Izzy helped write every GnR song on AFD and UYI?

4 hours ago, Free Bird said:

It's definitely not 1/2 of the songwriting team. That's bullshit.

And no, it's not true either that most people hate Matts drumming. Most people don't even care. The harcore fans prefer Steven's drumming but that doesn't mean they hate Matt's.

They tried to make an album in the mid 90's. Duff and Slash were in a very bad shape and they had a singer who wasn't around. Nobody had hear him sing for years. They didn't talk to each other, nobody knew the direction of the new music, they were looking for a second guitarist... eventually they were forced to work with Paul Tobias... 

There were completely different circumstances by the time. Doing a record just wasn't possible, with or without Izzy who was there for a short time as we know.

 

Yes, I agree with this. There were many reasons, Izzy not being there wasn't the main reason, I think.

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4 hours ago, Free Bird said:

It's definitely not 1/2 of the songwriting team. That's bullshit.

And no, it's not true either that most people hate Matts drumming. Most people don't even care. The harcore fans prefer Steven's drumming but that doesn't mean they hate Matt's.

They tried to make an album in the mid 90's. Duff and Slash were in a very bad shape and they had a singer who wasn't around. Nobody had hear him sing for years. They didn't talk to each other, nobody knew the direction of the new music, they were looking for a second guitarist... eventually they were forced to work with Paul Tobias... 

There were completely different circumstances by the time. Doing a record just wasn't possible, with or without Izzy who was there for a short time as we know.

It's like Bono said. Some people here love CD, some love VR, some love Slash's solo stuff.

Some love all of that!

A record by Axl, Slash and Duff would be killer! 

 

Izzy was brought back in to write with them in the 90's.

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1 hour ago, Izzymacbeth said:

Izzy was brought back in to write with them in the 90's.

That's exactly my point. It didn't work with and without him. Nobody's denying Izzy's importance but in this period the band had bigger issues.

 

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It's definitely not 1/2 of the songwriting team. That's bullshit.

So Izzy and Axl aren't the primary songwriters of the band? Not taking anything away from Duff and Slash but I would assume this is clear as day. 

 

Quote

And no, it's not true either that most people hate Matts drumming. Most people don't even care. The harcore fans prefer Steven's drumming but that doesn't mean they hate Matt's.

We'll have to agree to disagree here. I certainly doubt there are many who would consider Matt's drumming elevating UYI in any meaningful way (including Axl). He definitely didn't have the impact Adler had on AFD and that's just a fact. I hated his drumming on those albums aside from a few select songs - felt really out of place and lacking groove. His work brought the quality of the songs down for me. To be fair to Matt though, I did like his drumming on TSI and Contraband. 

 

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They tried to make an album in the mid 90's. Duff and Slash were in a very bad shape and they had a singer who wasn't around. Nobody had hear him sing for years. They didn't talk to each other, nobody knew the direction of the new music, they were looking for a second guitarist... eventually they were forced to work with Paul Tobias... There were completely different circumstances by the time. Doing a record just wasn't possible, with or without Izzy who was there for a short time as we know.

Well, Axl is and will always be Axl. Duff and Slash can go into the studio right now and they're going to run up against the same old shit: Liberace/Spandex Axl. Pro-tools, tinkering in the studio and obsessing over the 150th layer on unnamed instrumental #41 is a certainty. You think a guy who has done things his own way since UYI is going to suddenly change his creative process for songwriting to accommodate Duff and Slash's impromptu style of recording? Anything is possible but there is a distinct clash of styles there which time can't change. Perhaps there is mutual respect now which will go a long way to overcome all that. Who knows. In Slash's own words, they couldn't cut that 96' album because they didn't sit in a circle and play together anymore. Something Marc Cantor also acknowledged and tried to arrange many times to no avail. They had a process with AFD and LIES - Izzy writes the backbone with the help of Axl, then Axl and Slash layer it with input from Duff. You're missing a crucial element by removing Izzy. Like I said before, there is a winning formula here that has been tried and tested.

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That's exactly my point. It didn't work with and without him. Nobody's denying Izzy's importance but in this period the band had bigger issues.

The UYI sessions were even more chaotic than the 94-96' sessions, the entire band was either strung out on drugs and booze (Slash, Steven, Duff) , detoxing (Izzy), or disappearing up their own ass (Axl). They also lost Alan Niven during this time. Somehow they still managed to put out 2 albums. It probably helped that over 1/2 of UYI was written during AFD/Lies, but they still put out music regardless of the chaos and immense pressure of following up AFD. Yeah, things weren't great in '94, but they sure as hell weren't any better before.

I hardly think that a few jam sessions between Izzy and Duff over the course of a month in '95 constitutes as proof that he was not a key and vital piece of the missing puzzle to kickstarting those sessions. All of the circumstances and powerplays between Axl and Slash could have been overcome (as we saw during UYI) if the foundation of their band and songwriting wasn't irreparably broken (losing Izzy). That's what Slash and Duff point out repeatedly in their books. Why isn't this common knowledge by now? Those guys have mentioned Izzy's crucial role in the band many many times. "There were no songs". Direct quote from Duff and Slash about those 96' sessions. Maybe those sessions never went anywhere because their writer (Izzy) was missing and the other writer (Axl) was basically in a creative funk?

Axl's foolish move to veto Slash's suggestion of bringing Izzy back in favor of Paul Tobias (the man who saved Guns N' Roses) was the the final kiss of death for that '96 album. Could they have written an album with Tobias? Sure. According to the Chinese Democracy credits, Tobias had a hand in nearly all of the best songs. Certainly a far bigger creative force than Fortus. Why didn't it happen? Why couldn't Duff and Slash work with Tobias to create music? CHEMISTRY. No chemistry between the principals. Therefore, no music.

You can love this new version of the band all you want but I don't see chemistry between the principals (Axl, Sluff) and the replacements. They're not worthy enough to be on a GnR album imho. Not a single memorable writing credit to their name in spite of their long careers speaks volumes.

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It's like Bono said. Some people here love CD, some love VR, some love Slash's solo stuff.

Some love all of that!

A record by Axl, Slash and Duff would be killer! 

 

Fair enough. It would be a kickass album because Axl, Duff, and Slash are legends. If they actually want to follow-up their legendary albums, especially so long after their prime, I'd imagine it would be wise to stack the odds in their favor by assembling the original winning team. I'm sure in Axl's twisted logic though, Fortus' guitar skills and "more is better" approach is somehow more "relevant" to modern audiences than Izzy's throwback "dated" style. He's said as much about Adler's approach to drumming which only proves Axl doesn't know wtf he's talking about.

All of those albums have portions that are great - but as a cohesive whole, they are mediocre imho. Contraband sold a lot but I thought it was thoroughly average compared to Axl's magnum opus, which is at least an ambitious failure. One credit I will give to Duff and Slash - they know their limitations and they know their strengths, they choose to stay in their lane and the results are therefore more uniform than Axl's work which veers from great to shit in the span of a single song. None of these guys are all that great alone, they all need each other.

I'd still buy an album by those three, but I just think that if they're going to fuck with their legacy by putting out another album - then do it right and make it happen with the originals. Just my 2 cents.

 

 

 

Edited by RONIN
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9 hours ago, EvanG said:

So in your opinion the GnR songs where Izzy didn't have a hand in are not GnR worthy? Or are you one of those people who think Izzy helped write every GnR song on AFD and UYI?

 

I'm one of those people that think GnR was five guys. Right now, we have 3/5 of the band. 

A lot of the GnR songs that are not credited to Izzy have his involvement (locomotive, perfect crime, etc). All that being said, the songs written for UYI had the combined creative stamp of the principals (mostly) with few exceptions. Izzy is playing rhythm guitar on most of the UYI tracks.

Do I think UYI suffered from Izzy's influence being muted out by Axl and Slash? Yes. Izzy's guitar interplay with Slash adds so much to AFD. That lack of interplay is very noticeable in UYI and brings the quality of those albums down along with Matt's drumming (imho).

 

Quote

Yes, I agree with this. There were many reasons, Izzy not being there wasn't the main reason, I think.

 Fast forward to 2:30 . Right from the mouth of Duff and Slash.

Edited by RONIN
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35 minutes ago, RONIN said:

I'm one of those people that think GnR was five guys. Right now, we have 3/5 of the band. 

A lot of the GnR songs that are not credited to Izzy have his involvement (locomotive, perfect crime, etc). All that being said, the songs written for UYI had the combined creative stamp of the principals (mostly) with few exceptions. Izzy is playing rhythm guitar on most of the UYI tracks.

Do I think UYI suffered from Izzy's influence being muted out by Axl and Slash? Yes. Izzy's guitar interplay with Slash adds so much to AFD. That lack of interplay is very noticeable in UYI and brings the quality of those albums down along with Matt's drumming (imho).

 

 Fast forward to 2:30 . Right from the mouth of Duff and Slash.

Izzy IS credited for Perfect Crime and his guitar is great on the recording too. 

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2 hours ago, RONIN said:

I'm one of those people that think GnR was five guys. Right now, we have 3/5 of the band. 

A lot of the GnR songs that are not credited to Izzy have his involvement (locomotive, perfect crime, etc). All that being said, the songs written for UYI had the combined creative stamp of the principals (mostly) with few exceptions. Izzy is playing rhythm guitar on most of the UYI tracks.

Do I think UYI suffered from Izzy's influence being muted out by Axl and Slash? Yes. Izzy's guitar interplay with Slash adds so much to AFD. That lack of interplay is very noticeable in UYI and brings the quality of those albums down along with Matt's drumming (imho).

 

I agree partly.

GnR was 5 guys, that's why it worked, they all brought something unique to the table.

I don't agree that it was just Axl and Izzy who were the primary songwriters, Slash definitely was too. And Duff comes right after that.

It's impossible to know if Izzy wrote a lot more than he was credited for. But the same goes for the other guys. Duff has said too that he wrote more for the UYI albums than he got credited for. And I'm sure the same goes for Slash. When you look at the song credits on UYI, both Izzy and Slash have about the same amount of credits. I remember an interview with Izzy where he said he got credits for all the stuff he wrote on UYI and that he was happy about that. But like I said... we can't know how accurate those credits are.

I do think that there are songs with no creative input from Izzy, especially on the UYI albums, that I really love, that's why I think that a new album without Izzy could still be good. Would it be better with him on board? Of course, probably a lot. No discussion about that. 

 

Edited by EvanG
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20 hours ago, RONIN said:

But they couldn't though -- they tried many times in the 90's to no avail. He gave the GNR songs structure and a backbone - when he left, there was no skeleton for the others to build upon. So you have a bunch of Slash riffs sitting in the vault and Axl on pro-tools trying to patch them together into a song. 

Could they put together a good album? Theoretically - yes. The talent is there. Will it be as good as it could have been with Izzy? Of course not. GnR has a winning formula with the AFD 5. The further they got from it, the more mixed their results. 

The idea of putting Fortus in the album is like pissing in the stew. It's one thing for Axl to do a solo album and recruit players for his band - it's another thing entirely for the classic band to replace two originals on a record. Just one replacement barely worked on UYI (most people hate the drumming on those albums) - but now you're talking about replacing 1/2 of the songwriting team and 1/2 of a legendary guitar duo. I don't know man. Is that even guns anymore?

Right because Slash hasn't put together a killer solo discography but with Slash, Axl and Duff they couldn't possibly make a good record without Izzy. Not buying it at all. Just delusional Izzy worship that Axl Rose, Slash and Duff couldn't make a kickass album without Izzy. 

Also saying most people hate the drumming on the Illusion is a joke and not even remotely true at all. 

Seriously though saying GnR need Izzy to make a kickass album is just bullshit. 

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2 hours ago, Bono said:

Right because Slash hasn't put together a killer solo discography but with Slash, Axl and Duff they couldn't possibly make a good record without Izzy. Not buying it at all. Just delusional Izzy worship that Axl Rose, Slash and Duff couldn't make a kickass album without Izzy. 

Also saying most people hate the drumming on the Illusion is a joke and not even remotely true at all. 

Seriously though saying GnR need Izzy to make a kickass album is just bullshit. 

We agree on most things Bono and I think that's mostly the case here. 

While I'm not really a big fan of Axl and Slash's solo work - I do think that together, they could put out a kickass album. Totally doable. 

The point I'm making is simply, with Izzy - they would make a better album. And that doesn't take anything away from Axl, Duff and Slash. The 4 of those guys just have legendary chemistry writing music together.

As for Sorum - guess we part ways there. I was always under the impression that most people vastly prefer Adler to Sorum (die hards and critics) and that his work on UYI wasn't really held in high regard. I know Axl certainly doesn't think very highly of it but then again, he does have an axe to grind against Matt. 

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9 minutes ago, RONIN said:

We agree on most things Bono and I think that's mostly the case here. 

While I'm not really a big fan of Axl and Slash's solo work - I do think that together, they could put out a kickass album. Totally doable. 

The point I'm making is simply, with Izzy - they would make a better album. And that doesn't take anything away from Axl, Duff and Slash. The 4 of those guys just have legendary chemistry writing music together.

As for Sorum - guess we part ways there. I was always under the impression that most people vastly prefer Adler to Sorum (die hards and critics) and that his work on UYI wasn't really held in high regard. I know Axl certainly doesn't think very highly of it but then again, he does have an axe to grind against Matt. 

I agree Ronin on your third paragraph. However Illusions had other writers being Del James and West Arkeen and Axl wrote with those guys as well. So the question is if Guns would do an album does Axl have a relationship especialy with West to write with him again and would there be outside writers again?. Or would the writing be within the band and possibly Izzy?

I have always wondered if Izzy has lyrics and jams leftover from stuff that hes mucked around with on a tape that says " guns stuff" and has kept it aside for that ever fateful day when slash and or axl give him a call and say we are in a studio come on down. Izzy never got a chance to play as part of the NITL tour but wondering if there was ever a carrot stick that he would be called should there be anything further happen in terms of studio stuff and Izzy would be given writing credits should any studio stuff become a reality..........

Im probably in a minority that loves sorums playing on the illusion stuff. I don't think they could have gotten a better drummer in Matt. I know the material sounds robotic or professional but when I hear the drumming on estranged and  have to listen to frank, the band made the right call in Matt. Although that decision in hiring Matt was left to slash and duff to manage, axl didn't want the responsibility.

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6 minutes ago, Sydney Fan said:

I agree Ronin on your third paragraph. However Illusions had other writers being Del James and West Arkeen and Axl wrote with those guys as well. So the question is if Guns would do an album does Axl have a relationship especialy with West to write with him again and would there be outside writers again?. Or would the writing be within the band and possibly Izzy?

 

Well, West died back in the 90's, so that collaboration is out. Paul Tobias is also probably not going to be involved with writing any future material for obvious reasons. From what I recall, West and Tobias had minimal contributions to AFD, LIES and UYI. 

I imagine any future album is going to be between Axl, Duff, and Slash - with Fortus also being a creative contributor. Since the band isn't on good terms with Izzy, sadly I don't really see a way for him to be brought back into the fold unless there are some plans afoot that we aren't aware of. From the facts we have right now, it would seem that Izzy is completely out.

 

Quote

I have always wondered if Izzy has lyrics and jams leftover from stuff that hes mucked around with on a tape that says " guns stuff" and has kept it aside for that ever fateful day when slash and or axl give him a call and say we are in a studio come on down. Izzy never got a chance to play as part of the NITL tour but wondering if there was ever a carrot stick that he would be called should there be anything further happen in terms of studio stuff and Izzy would be given writing credits should any studio stuff become a reality..........

I think all these guys can easily just jam together and lay down a GnR album in a few weeks. I think Slash has said this before in some VR interview. 

The holy grail for Izzy's "GnR" leftovers are the few writing sessions he did with Duff back in '95 and the early Velvet Revolver sessions with Duff and Slash before Scott Weiland was in the band. I think "Down by the Ocean" is one of the unreleased Izzy songs sitting in Axl's vault from the '95 sessions with Duff.

It's a shame that Izzy's first solo album wasn't saved for Guns N' Roses. Would have sounded kickass with Axl's vocals and Slash's riffs.

 

Quote

Im probably in a minority that loves sorums playing on the illusion stuff. I don't think they could have gotten a better drummer in Matt. I know the material sounds robotic or professional but when I hear the drumming on estranged and  have to listen to frank, the band made the right call in Matt. Although that decision in hiring Matt was left to slash and duff to manage, axl didn't want the responsibility.

Fair enough. He's a great drummer, that much is undeniable.

 

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8 hours ago, RONIN said:

 

So Izzy and Axl aren't the primary songwriters of the band? Not taking anything away from Duff and Slash but I would assume this is clear as day. 

 

We'll have to agree to disagree here. I certainly doubt there are many who would consider Matt's drumming elevating UYI in any meaningful way (including Axl). He definitely didn't have the impact Adler had on AFD and that's just a fact. I hated his drumming on those albums aside from a few select songs - felt really out of place and lacking groove. His work brought the quality of the songs down for me. To be fair to Matt though, I did like his drumming on TSI and Contraband. 

 

Well, Axl is and will always be Axl. Duff and Slash can go into the studio right now and they're going to run up against the same old shit: Liberace/Spandex Axl. Pro-tools, tinkering in the studio and obsessing over the 150th layer on unnamed instrumental #41 is a certainty. You think a guy who has done things his own way since UYI is going to suddenly change his creative process for songwriting to accommodate Duff and Slash's impromptu style of recording? Anything is possible but there is a distinct clash of styles there which time can't change. Perhaps there is mutual respect now which will go a long way to overcome all that. Who knows. In Slash's own words, they couldn't cut that 96' album because they didn't sit in a circle and play together anymore. Something Marc Cantor also acknowledged and tried to arrange many times to no avail. They had a process with AFD and LIES - Izzy writes the backbone with the help of Axl, then Axl and Slash layer it with input from Duff. You're missing a crucial element by removing Izzy. Like I said before, there is a winning formula here that has been tried and tested.

The UYI sessions were even more chaotic than the 94-96' sessions, the entire band was either strung out on drugs and booze (Slash, Steven, Duff) , detoxing (Izzy), or disappearing up their own ass (Axl). They also lost Alan Niven during this time. Somehow they still managed to put out 2 albums. It probably helped that over 1/2 of UYI was written during AFD/Lies, but they still put out music regardless of the chaos and immense pressure of following up AFD. Yeah, things weren't great in '94, but they sure as hell weren't any better before.

I hardly think that a few jam sessions between Izzy and Duff over the course of a month in '95 constitutes as proof that he was not a key and vital piece of the missing puzzle to kickstarting those sessions. All of the circumstances and powerplays between Axl and Slash could have been overcome (as we saw during UYI) if the foundation of their band and songwriting wasn't irreparably broken (losing Izzy). That's what Slash and Duff point out repeatedly in their books. Why isn't this common knowledge by now? Those guys have mentioned Izzy's crucial role in the band many many times. "There were no songs". Direct quote from Duff and Slash about those 96' sessions. Maybe those sessions never went anywhere because their writer (Izzy) was missing and the other writer (Axl) was basically in a creative funk?

Axl's foolish move to veto Slash's suggestion of bringing Izzy back in favor of Paul Tobias (the man who saved Guns N' Roses) was the the final kiss of death for that '96 album. Could they have written an album with Tobias? Sure. According to the Chinese Democracy credits, Tobias had a hand in nearly all of the best songs. Certainly a far bigger creative force than Fortus. Why didn't it happen? Why couldn't Duff and Slash work with Tobias to create music? CHEMISTRY. No chemistry between the principals. Therefore, no music.

You can love this new version of the band all you want but I don't see chemistry between the principals (Axl, Sluff) and the replacements. They're not worthy enough to be on a GnR album imho. Not a single memorable writing credit to their name in spite of their long careers speaks volumes.

Fair enough. It would be a kickass album because Axl, Duff, and Slash are legends. If they actually want to follow-up their legendary albums, especially so long after their prime, I'd imagine it would be wise to stack the odds in their favor by assembling the original winning team. I'm sure in Axl's twisted logic though, Fortus' guitar skills and "more is better" approach is somehow more "relevant" to modern audiences than Izzy's throwback "dated" style. He's said as much about Adler's approach to drumming which only proves Axl doesn't know wtf he's talking about.

All of those albums have portions that are great - but as a cohesive whole, they are mediocre imho. Contraband sold a lot but I thought it was thoroughly average compared to Axl's magnum opus, which is at least an ambitious failure. One credit I will give to Duff and Slash - they know their limitations and they know their strengths, they choose to stay in their lane and the results are therefore more uniform than Axl's work which veers from great to shit in the span of a single song. None of these guys are all that great alone, they all need each other.

I'd still buy an album by those three, but I just think that if they're going to fuck with their legacy by putting out another album - then do it right and make it happen with the originals. Just my 2 cents.

 

 

 

Cut Slash's input out of AFD and UYI and see what's remaining. If you still think he's not a primary songwriter as well for Guns you're entitled to your opinion but I don't have to agree with that.

Just because you don't like Matt's drumming it doesn't mean that everybody feels the same. Like I said, most casual fans don't even care. Others payed attention to GNR because of the Illusions. 

About Axl, I don't know what's going on in his head. Would you think he calls Slash out of the blue to reunite? But it happened. Maybe he missed the way they were working together after all this years where Axl had to manage all and everything and didn't even do it successfully. In fact, it doesn't even matter what I think because I'm talking here about possibilities and not about something that's actually going to happen. My point still stands... Axl, Slash and Duff are very well capable of doing a great record on their own. That's my point. I don't say they'll do it, I don't say Izzy wasn't important to Guns.

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I think we all agree that a new album, which is completely hypothetical of course, would benefit a lot with Izzy being a part of it, one way or another.

About the drumming... I agree Sorum's drumming has a robotic feel to it and Adler's style is more loose and maybe shows more of his personality, if you will. I always prefer the latter, but I don't mind Sorum's playing on UYI. His style fits a lot of the songs and I'm not sure how Adler's style would have served some of those more technical songs.

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