Matt Sorum's Drumming on Use Your Illusion - Yay or Nay?

[Marie82]

1 hour ago, Underhardy said:

Matt 100%.. Adler playing locomotive lol

My thoughts exactly. 

To answer the original question, yay.

[J Dog]

Pretty good overall. Nothing mind blowing or special except for a few songs. But he didn't just suck either. I didn't love the mix but I don't know how much he had to do with that. UYI is a big guitar/big piano album, in that regard I'd say the drumming did it's job.

[jafeijo]

I love the drumming but I can't stand that amount of reverb in the mix, the snare sound is not that good also.

The drum sound on TSI is faaaar better.

[SoundOfAGun]

5 minutes ago, jafeijo said:

I love the drumming but I can't stand that amount of reverb in the mix, the snare sound is not that good also.

The drum sound on TSI is faaaar better.

I would agree with this, Sorum is a good drummer, it is difficult to have a clear picture of what UYI would have sounded like with Adler, he is one fifth of the magic though. That's what made AFD one of the finest records of all time, the magic of them being more than the sum of their parts. 

The reverb on UYI drums is way too present, but it was an album made in 90/91. TSI is a greal sounding album, they would have done well with an original album produced like that; leaner and more aggressive. 

[soon]

Heres what Axl said in an interview with Hit Parader about Matts playing on UYI:

 

AXL: We’re really into letting Matt go more off on his own in terms of drumming for GN’R. On Use Your Illusion, he was pretty much playing just what we wanted to hear on a particular song – which we already had together before he joined the band. On the record, he’s one of the most amazing drummers I’ve ever heard, but he’s better than that.

HP: Did Matt earn such high respect more for the work he’s done on stage or on album?
AXL: More from just jamming. When he goes off on his own creative sense it’s pretty amazing. I want to facilitate that getting out. I want Matt to just explode on the next record.

 

http://ladydairhean.0catch.com/Axl/Interviews/article0142.htm

 

I think that sums up my impression of Sorrums playing as well.  And his playing did take up a lot more space on the next album he played on in relation to GNR, Slashs Snakepit Its Five O' Clock Somewhere.  I really like his drumming on that. 

[Lies They Tell]

I voted for "it was pretty good overall", because it doesn't bother me for the most part. I might have voted for the "it was okay" -choice, if there had been no "would have been better with Adler" -part, because honestly I don't know if it would have been better with Adler. Maybe? Maybe not? All I know is that especially on the ballads Matt's drumming sounds a bit dated to me. But I don't know if it would have sounded any better with Adler. Do we have any demo versions with Adlers drumming, so I could judge?

[jafeijo]

1 minute ago, SoundOfAGun said:

I would agree with this, Sorum is a good drummer, it is difficult to have a clear picture of what UYI would have sounded like with Adler, he is one fifth of the magic though. That's what made AFD one of the finest records of all time, the magic of them being more than the sum of their parts. 

The reverb on UYI drums is way too present, but it was an album made in 90/91. TSI is a greal sounding album, they would have done well with an original album produced like that; leaner and more aggressive. 

I agree with you 100%, the production of TSI on an album of originals would be awesome and I think the band was looking forward for that back in 96.

About Adler, I think he was more part of the magic in a hard rock context, if the project was an AFDish album he'd be irreplaceable, but on Illusions tracklist I don't think he would fit so naturally, perhaps on UYI I he'd kill it and in the UYI II "epics" not so much.

Listening to the demos, I think Sorum took songs like Locomotive to another level.

 

[Tom2112]

Overall he was ok! some great moments, but in others it was way to tight and precise. Songs like Estranged, NV, You could be mine, Don't cry, Garden of eden, Bad obsessions Pretty Tied up, Dead Horse, Yesterdays, 14 years, Dust N bones he sounds great... I always felt he held don't damn me back, back off bitch too. I'm sure there's more but without the track-listing it's hard to remember. 

I like him, he's a good drummer, but sometimes his preciseness drained the energy from the song. I hated his UYI drum solo... utter snore fest.

[gnr5]

I wish they would have brought Matt back for this tour, it would sound SOOO tight and without a doubt he would kill it on the old material and on the CD tracks...which is also old stuff, but you get me.

[Tom-Ass]

I picked meh but that may have not been fair... I still think they albums would have been better if Adler was capable of doing it at the time.. He sure seems capable now.. Either way I would pay money to have Matt over Frank.. Anyone.. Please!!!!

[estranged_85]

I like his work on those albums. Miss him in the band.. I felt a bit disappointed when he didn't join the semi reunion.

[ericy210]

You're making the assumption that Steven was well enough and clear-headed enough to participate.  He wasn't.  So it wasn't really an option to begin with.

[Jeez]

Matt is a great drummer, but I didn't like his tone live (back then). The albums were great though.

[RONIN]

12 minutes ago, ericy210 said:

You're making the assumption that Steven was well enough and clear-headed enough to participate.  He wasn't.  So it wasn't really an option to begin with.

Agreed. It's a nice hypothetical to debate though especially with the "Mates rehearsal" circulating about on youtube. 

[ludurigan]

10 minutes ago, Jeez said:

Matt is a great drummer, but I didn't like his tone live (back then). The albums were great though.

i liked his tone on rock in rio and on most shows in 1991

in 1992 its pretty unlistenable!

[ludurigan]

31 minutes ago, ericy210 said:

You're making the assumption that Steven was well enough and clear-headed enough to participate.  He wasn't.  So it wasn't really an option to begin with.

thats the story they told you

is it really true?

is that all there was to it?

was there more to steven's firing than drugs?

 

[willl]

I prefer Adler because I think he brings his own signature sound to the band. I'm by no means an expert, I just find the drums on a lot of UYI tracks to be a little robotic, except YCBM. It's perhaps a credit to Matts professionalism that he is so technically efficient, I just feel the band lost its swagger on the Illusions albums.

 

[izzyzz]

I think that most people are biased towards what they've heard first, at least to a small degree. I got into GN'R in the 1990s and the first songs I've heard were from UYI... They were freaking great! Who was doing the drumming was the least of my concerns. The music sounded awesome, so I assume Matt did a great job!

[RONIN]

24 minutes ago, ludurigan said:

thats the story they told you

is it really true?

is that all there was to it?

was there more to steven's firing than drugs?

 

Well - it seems pretty straightforward actually, Alan Niven says he was let go simply because he didn't have the skills to handle the material.

Duff and Slash along with Mike Clink and Alan probably would have been the ones to make the decision to let him go before Axl got involved.

Here's the question for you, do you believe Alan? More importantly, why would Alan lie about it? What's the agenda there for him to do that? It's one thing when he shit-talks Axl, but he has no axe to grind against Adler. If he was just going to bullshit us, he could have blamed it on drugs like Duff and Slash. 

In any case, I wish they had waited for Adler to clean up his act before starting the UYI sessions. Letting him go was the beginning of the end imho.

[History2010]

I think he is okay on the albums but is really, really poor on the tour. He completely takes the energy and life out of some songs (It's So Easy being my go-to example) 

[ludurigan]

2 hours ago, RONIN said:

Well - it seems pretty straightforward actually, Alan Niven says he was let go simply because he didn't have the skills to handle the material.

Duff and Slash along with Mike Clink and Alan probably would have been the ones to make the decision to let him go before Axl got involved.

Here's the question for you, do you believe Alan? More importantly, why would Alan lie about it? What's the agenda there for him to do that? It's one thing when he shit-talks Axl, but he has no axe to grind against Adler. If he was just going to bullshit us, he could have blamed it on drugs like Duff and Slash.

yeah alan doesnt seem like a bullshitter

but where did you get that quote from niven? i dont remember it...

the questions remain... was it drugs? was it "skills"? was it something else? something personal?

[DieselDaisy]

I prefer Adler but Sorum was useful.

[The Macaroni Incident?]

 

[BorderlineCrazy]

I feel the difference between Steven and Matt is pretty much the same difference there is between GNR and NuGNR (Fortus-Izzy, Buckethead/Bumblefoot-Slash). Matt is technically better/more skilled/whatever you wanna call it, just as those other guys I mentioned are "better" than Izzy and Slash, yet nothing beats the original formula, the combination of all those "sloppy" players. I like Matt and I love the UYI's but I would always take Steven over Matt for GNR. I would always take Steven, Izzy, Slash, Duff and Axl over anybody else when it comes to Guns N' Roses.

That said, I think Matt did a good job and I could live with him being the drummer again while I find Frank playing in GNR to be an abomination 

[RONIN]

2 hours ago, ludurigan said:

yeah alan doesnt seem like a bullshitter

but where did you get that quote from niven? i dont remember it...

the questions remain... was it drugs? was it "skills"? was it something else? something personal?

fast forward to 47:30 

Here's my theory on Steven's dismissal: All of the above. He was struggling through the UYI sessions (who knows if it was drugs or lack of skills - probably the drugs made him extra sloppy) - and I think the band would have waited for him, IF Duff and Slash still liked Steven. I think Steven didn't have any friends left in the band and so when it came time for someone to fight for him - nobody stepped up. Izzy was right in the midst of a major detox and his decision making power in the band was weakening - so in the end, it was more than likely Duff and Slash who facilitated Steven's firing. 

Edited June 21, 2017 by RONIN