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Madagascar is the missing link


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35 minutes ago, Towelie said:

New material is the missing link.

Ashba added: "Axl has two full albums that he has recorded. He has played me a bunch of songs off of that that are incredible! I can't wait to get in and kind of dive into those as well. I've written tons of songs and demoed up a bunch of stuff. I think it is just a matter of getting in and sifting through the piles of material."
Read more at http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/d-j-ashba-quits-guns-n-roses.html#yChJAmDdXsjjzhgz.99

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19 hours ago, Iron MikeyJ said:

I have always felt that the entire CD album is a lot like The Wall. Not as good of course, and not intentionally inspired by the wall, but none the less it's there. Let me explain... The Wall is all about Waters life; childhood, growing up, marriage, and yes the perils of success in a rock band. Which CD is VERY MUCH an album of the perils of success in rock. The difference is I don't think Axl meant for CD to be a commentary about those perils of rock and roll, while Waters very much DID mean to make that connection. The Wall also devles into other aspects of life; growing up, etc that CD doesnt touch.

Even though The Wall is clearly superior, what CD does have going for it is the view from inside Axls lonely mountain top. While other albums may share this kind of insight, honestly The Wall and CD are the only two albums I can think of that have this kind of perspective. Both Axl and Waters achieved complete rock and roll success, they reached the top of the mountain, and once they got their they found it wasn't as great as they made it out to be. To put it bluntly, fame, money, and success didn't make them happy. Their lives were still empty. That's such a unique perspective for an album IMO, and makes it an interesting journey to listen to as well. It also makes it very fresh IMO because of that perspective, we may never get another album (by any artist) that shares that perspective. Which again makes it unique.

Sure we could pick apart the songs themselves, the production, lack of Slash, etc. Those topics have all been covered at exhaustion in this board, and most make very valid points. Is it a guns album? Is it an Axl solo album? That's hard for me to answer, what I DO know is when I listen to it, I hear the plight of a man that has a very unique and different perspective on his world. Which unto itself is s very refreshing thing IMO. I hear The Wall with some latter day Zeppelin mixed in (physical graffiti and in through the out door specifically), with splashes of numetal. Some songs work better than others, but having said that I find it to be an almost brilliant album. I say almost because Waters intended The Wall to be a commentary type album, while im not sure Axl did. He did it by accident IMO, but it's still there. 

Marillion - Misplaced Childhood is quite similar, of course they were just at the beginning of their careers. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqNb_uzcmaU&list=PL5E5DB9D84A810265

CD is definitely the most personal album by Guns N' Roses and has some pretty strong lyrics. I like it for the same reason other people hate it, there are so many layers. You can listen to it again and again and it sounds different every time depending on what you focus on. If you think about it it's also the most grown-up album by Guns.

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On 23.6.2017 at 5:28 AM, Kasanova King said:

Closest song to Illusions and most likely written during that period.

Great song, but do you really think it is moslt likely written pre-1993? Axl said during Rock in Rio in 2001 that it was "brand new" at thatg time, and Pitman talked about how he and Axl came up with the signature horn melody.

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7 hours ago, Zurimor said:

Marillion - Misplaced Childhood is quite similar, of course they were just at the beginning of their careers. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqNb_uzcmaU&list=PL5E5DB9D84A810265

CD is definitely the most personal album by Guns N' Roses and has some pretty strong lyrics. I like it for the same reason other people hate it, there are so many layers. You can listen to it again and again and it sounds different every time depending on what you focus on. If you think about it it's also the most grown-up album by Guns.

 

I'll go completely off-topic to say I'm glad I found a Marillion fan on this board! They're probably my favourite band! 

CD is my favourite GN'R album , and I personally think it is quite similar to Somewhere Else in terms of what's being discussed on this topic. Strong and personal lyrics.

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4 hours ago, BreakDown2014 said:

 

I'll go completely off-topic to say I'm glad I found a Marillion fan on this board! They're probably my favourite band! 

CD is my favourite GN'R album , and I personally think it is quite similar to Somewhere Else in terms of what's being discussed on this topic. Strong and personal lyrics.

I specifically like early Marillion and Fish. Season's Enbd was a great album, too, and I really liked Brave, it's the best Steve Hogarth era album imo. Unfortunately, Hogarth is the reason why I am not such a big fan anymore, they're still fine musically, but H.'s singing is so emotionless...

I have 2 short examples, in Gaza there is that line  "my father died...feeding the birds", I can imagine that Fish would have spoken that line in a low, broken voice which would absolutely make sense, Hogarth sings it in the same way he sings the following lines. While that line would've much potential, a lot of it is wasted. Or, a bit later, "we're packed like chickens", at "chickens" there should be all the disgust they feel about this in the voice, but Steve just....sings. It's not that Steve is a bad singer, but he lacks that talent that makes Fish so special, he swaps from singing to speaking, whispering, crying whatever the song requires to transport all the emotions. I'm still a big fan of Fish though.  :)

 

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28 minutes ago, Zurimor said:

I specifically like early Marillion and Fish. Season's Enbd was a great album, too, and I really liked Brave, it's the best Steve Hogarth era album imo. Unfortunately, Hogarth is the reason why I am not such a big fan anymore, they're still fine musically, but H.'s singing is so emotionless...

I have 2 short examples, in Gaza there is that line  "my father died...feeding the birds", I can imagine that Fish would have spoken that line in a low, broken voice which would absolutely make sense, Hogarth sings it in the same way he sings the following lines. While that line would've much potential, a lot of it is wasted. Or, a bit later, "we're packed like chickens", at "chickens" there should be all the disgust they feel about this in the voice, but Steve just....sings. It's not that Steve is a bad singer, but he lacks that talent that makes Fish so special, he swaps from singing to speaking, whispering, crying whatever the song requires to transport all the emotions. I'm still a big fan of Fish though.  :)

 

Fish is amazing! His solo work is really impressive too, but I just love the H era. I got to listen to Gaza live a month ago, and H almost started crying at some moments of the song! You could try live versions, he's amazing in concert (The Invisible Man, A voice from the past or This Strange Engine are great examples of what the man can do live). I highly recommend FEAR, which is imo up there with the best they've ever done since Fish left (along with Brave). 

It really is great to talk about a band that has so much material and keeps trying hard to impress their fans, unlike GN'R which is the complete opposite :lol:

 

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On 24.6.2017 at 8:29 PM, Gibson_Guy87 said:

It would be really cool to hear live. I heard last year that Slash wanted to try it during rehearsals for Troubadour/Vegas.

Source?

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14 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

Great song, but do you really think it is moslt likely written pre-1993? Axl said during Rock in Rio in 2001 that it was "brand new" at thatg time, and Pitman talked about how he and Axl came up with the signature horn melody.

"I enjoyed his company so very much. There were many interruptions. Tommy Stinson walked in, and Axl began telling us about a song called Madagascar he had just written, and how he wanted us to hear it. Later on, after Axl had mingled a bit, he was nowhere around, and they motioned for me to come into his studio. Axl was wonderful, and talked openly about many things, and proceeded to let me hear some of the new music - including Madgascar." (Betsy Kendrick, 1999)

 

This quote of Axl saying he had "just written" the song means it was around 1999 certainly. 

Edited by History2010
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18 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

Great song, but do you really think it is moslt likely written pre-1993? Axl said during Rock in Rio in 2001 that it was "brand new" at thatg time, and Pitman talked about how he and Axl came up with the signature horn melody.

I think TIL is more Illusions era if anything and Catcher was 98. I think Madagascar was one of first things Axl did. 

I always refer to this even though it doesnt include Ron or Franks parts, it's more main writing. Not sure how accurate it is. 

This I Love" - (1994-2007)

"Catcher in the Rye" - (1998-1999)

"Chinese Democracy" - (1998-2000)

"Street of Dreams" - (1998-2000) 

"There Was a Time" - (1998-2000)

"Riad N' The Bedouins" - (1998-2000) 

"I.R.S." - (1998-2000) 

"Madagascar" - (1998-2000)

"Prostitute" - (1998-2000)

"Shackler's Revenge" - (2000-2004)

"Better" - (2000-2004)

"If the World" - (2000-2004)

"Scraped" - (2000-2004)

Sorry - 2000-2004

Edited by wasted
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On ‎25‎/‎06‎/‎2017 at 9:48 AM, wasted said:

Ashba added: "Axl has two full albums that he has recorded. He has played me a bunch of songs off of that that are incredible! I can't wait to get in and kind of dive into those as well. I've written tons of songs and demoed up a bunch of stuff. I think it is just a matter of getting in and sifting through the piles of material."
Read more at http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/d-j-ashba-quits-guns-n-roses.html#yChJAmDdXsjjzhgz.99

"read more"

no, thank you :facepalm:

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41 minutes ago, wasted said:

I think TIL is more Illusions era if anything and Catcher was 98. I think Madagascar was one of first things Axl did. 

I always refer to this even though it doesnt include Ron or Franks parts, it's more main writing. Not sure how accurate it is. 

This I Love" - (1994-2007)

This I Love is earlier thna 1994. Axl talked about it in 1993 and he later stated that it was written while in France, probably in July 1993 when the band was touring Europe and visited France three times.

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27 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

This I Love is earlier thna 1994. Axl talked about it in 1993 and he later stated that it was written while in France, probably in July 1993 when the band was touring Europe and visited France three times.

It's a pretty general list. I'm not sure if it's written or recorded either. 93-94 something like that. 

It's 2007 finish date that is also interesting. What is that,vocals or Robins solo? 

It always struck me that TIL isnt really a CD era song.

And theres 2 distinct recording periods 98-2000, then 2000-2004. 

Pre-Bucket was the Beavan recordings. Then RTB came in with Bucket?

But there's overlap in 2000. Then Costanzo was doing stuff too. 

Madagascar does seem pretty early as it's sort of saying bye to the old band and justifying it in a kind of depressing/inspiring way. 

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13 hours ago, BreakDown2014 said:

Fish is amazing! His solo work is really impressive too, but I just love the H era. I got to listen to Gaza live a month ago, and H almost started crying at some moments of the song! You could try live versions, he's amazing in concert (The Invisible Man, A voice from the past or This Strange Engine are great examples of what the man can do live). I highly recommend FEAR, which is imo up there with the best they've ever done since Fish left (along with Brave). 

It really is great to talk about a band that has so much material and keeps trying hard to impress their fans, unlike GN'R which is the complete opposite :lol:

 

The thing with Steve is, he can sing the old material like he needs to sing it, I saw him back then on the Season's End tour and it was okay. I don't know, maybe he was just too focused on hitting every single note and wanted to proof he's a good singer and completely forgot about the lyrics on his own songs.

I also think the band itself didn't really know what they wanted to do for quite a while. Let's be honest,  Holidays in Eden was really awful, there's such a big "I want to have success in the charts" stamp on it, it was terrible for the most part. There are some good songs on it, but most of it is just generic.

Then they released Brave, and Brave is really a good album, I wonder why they didn't just follow that direction. The following albums again were much worse, I think the problem there is that H. uses almost exclusivley his higher register and falsetto and he messes around way too much with the vocals, it just doesn't sound good to me.

Fish doesn't care that much about singing cleanly, actually his vocals are pretty dirty and rough at times, but that's exactly what takes his songs to another level. Fish never sings a song, he's always telling a story instead and emphasizes each syllable accordingly. To make it a bit more clear: "Is this your car?/ Is this your car?/ Is this your car?" , slightly different meaning depending on what you emphasize, Fish does this just perfectly in his lyrics. It's more like he's just speaking to you than singing a song and perfectly fits his storytelling. He also has a very dynamic style of singing, his vocie going up and down and from lower register to high register, falsetto, back to low and changing between loud voice/normal voice/whisper/cry within a matter of just a few syllables. He also always got that edge he can put to his voice if needed like in "Fugazi"  when he sings "insane" or in "He knows you know" at "you've got", "you know" those little screams. And last not least his lyrics of course, they are always pure art, he's a fucking poet! One of the best lyricists around for sure. It's always difficult to describe what makes a singer outstanding, but Fish defninitely is one of them. :)

However, I have to say that Steve seems to have improved quite a bit over the years, he finally uses his middle and lower register and his singing isn't that badly all the same anymore. Seems like he's heading towards the right direction, not the same level as Fish of course, but it's hard to compete with the poet himself. ;)

P.S.: Since I try to spread the word whenever possible, you may like this band: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3jeNK3aO4c&list=PLN36l7qmA95qUT2ufYeUz5BsuCzXbTx2A

Very uniques style, I love them. ;)

 

Edited by Zurimor
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20 hours ago, HwangHyeHye said:

In Estranged Axl sings: "Cause I see the storm is getting closer"

In Madagascar Axl sings:"I won't be told anymore, that I've been brought down in this storm"

 

Illuminati confirmed.

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23 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

Great song, but do you really think it is moslt likely written pre-1993? Axl said during Rock in Rio in 2001 that it was "brand new" at thatg time, and Pitman talked about how he and Axl came up with the signature horn melody.

I really don't know but the sound/melody of the song seems closer to the Illusions' sound than the overall CD sound. 

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1 minute ago, Kasanova King said:

I really don't know but the sound/melody of the song seems closer to the Illusions' sound than the overall CD sound. 

Okay, I see. The only CD song that we know for certain was written in the UYI period (if we define that as the period of touring after the release of UYI), is This I Love. It seems to be the earliest song on CD. Could be that there are other similarly old songs in the vault, intended for release on the second or third album.

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Madagasgas does have some sort links back to Civil War and One in a Million. The dynamics seem pretty UYI but the sound is very Pitman, sometimes I can barely make out a guitar. There's this tambourine shaking and the trip hop beat. I love Axl's whiskey vocal, he really sounds like a broken man, struggling to survive. 

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