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9 hours ago, Blackstar said:

The quote by Axl was:

I was specifically told "No lyrics, no melodies". Just sing what I was told or fuck off.

It's not exactly the same.

I don't think Sorry is about Slash.

Hang on. For one thing Axl's relayed that story more than once and moreover he's also said Duff said the same thing around the same time. 

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20 minutes ago, Jordan Rose said:

Hang on. For one thing Axl's relayed that story more than once and moreover he's also said Duff said the same thing around the same time. 

When was that? In the 2008 chats or in an interview?

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1 minute ago, coolio GNR said:

Was thinking of that song :D I would not mind if they brought that back at all, but it has to replace Knockin' on Heaven's Door, The Seeker, or something.

I'd like Knockin on heavens door to replace Knocking on Heavens Door....the current version sucks 

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8 hours ago, Blackstar said:

When was that? In the 2008 chats or in an interview?

I really can't remember specifically but he's definitely attributed the sentiment to both of them. He can imply the songs isn't 100% about Slash but I don't see how 'You know where to put your/"Just shut up and sing"' works in any other context. Who else anywhere in life would get to say that to him. Then you have him specifically referencing that sentiment in relation to the '95-'96 attempts at recording.

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8 hours ago, Wagszilla said:

After spending so much time listening to Guns N' Roses music and knowing Axl's general artistic personage, it's hard for me to say any one song is about any specific one thing even in germination.

It could've been conceivably have been written about Person A, inspired by Person B, and sung with the emotion of a Moment or Person C.

To muddy the waters here, I love the alternative album artwork because it stimulates my artistic imagination and I wonder if it gives clues into Axl's original motivation. Both alternative booklets sport an Asian woman, the thin model Bai Ling smoking a cigarette and something of a Chinese handmaiden in the other. It would seem to suggest the song is about, or at least uses the metaphor of a lost love. Am I to interpret the standoffish model smoking a cigarette to mirror the worldly wise Seymour or the delicate handmaiden to mirror Ms. Everly? It could conceivably be both or neither.

I've also wondered if the opening two verses are Axl, in a way, singing to himself, reminiscing on his lost youth and halcyon days gone by. He could be singing into a mirror or into the warm glow of cathode rays that reflect a much more recognizable image.

In the end, to me, much of Chinese Democracy's greatness lies in it's abstraction and what it means to you. The fact that we are all discussing this topic is a testament to it's brilliance. 

You know CD wasn't far off from being brilliant, but I can't help but feel a little change here and there could have taken these songs a lot further. And my biggest gripe will always be Axl's vocals on the record. His natural voice with some of the instrumentals on that album could have made the thing incredible. 

Its a beautiful album that struggled with melody and vocals...which is shocking when the biggest concern was everyone else in the band. 

I'd love to know how many songs Axl re recorded with 2010 vocals...we know This I Love was re-done but hearing the rest of the album in Axl's normal vocal register would make a huge difference I think 

 

Edited by IncitingChaos
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Do people forget what this song sounded like by the time they retired it in 2012? It didn't sound too good with the weak mickey voice. At least in 2001/02 he put some power and emotion into it, but with his current voice (which is 2012-level) I don't think even Slash could save it.

 

If he gets his voice back to the standard he was at during the NA '16 tour though, it'd be a different story....

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5 hours ago, Wagszilla said:

I do too. Flawed masterpiece in my eyes but I've still listened to it more than any other record I own.

I don't care for that version of TIL. Loses the flavor of the original. Different strokes!

That version was never polished up like the studio version and carried the remix instrumental. The vocals on CD would make a drastic difference to the album imo 

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5 hours ago, Gordon Comstock said:

Do people forget what this song sounded like by the time they retired it in 2012? It didn't sound too good with the weak mickey voice. At least in 2001/02 he put some power and emotion into it, but with his current voice (which is 2012-level) I don't think even Slash could save it.

 

If he gets his voice back to the standard he was at during the NA '16 tour though, it'd be a different story....

 

better than some songs on the set but still not very good haha he'd rasp the first attempt at it then learn to Mickey it after that. His instinct is to sing with a chest voice but he learns to sing with his head voice on every song...like how the hell does he sing the line "as long as this road seems" at 1:32 and not want to grab that from his chest...it should be impossible to sing that whole line from your head like that, it sounds like one scrambled word in the end and he's losing air Bc he's getting the words stuck in his throat from not opening up on the line.

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14 hours ago, Jordan Rose said:

I really can't remember specifically but he's definitely attributed the sentiment to both of them. He can imply the songs isn't 100% about Slash but I don't see how 'You know where to put your/"Just shut up and sing"' works in any other context. Who else anywhere in life would get to say that to him. Then you have him specifically referencing that sentiment in relation to the '95-'96 attempts at recording.

I understand that this subject has been analyzed and debated to death here over the years. I wasn't around during that time (as I'm one of the people whose interest renewed with the reunion), but I've read most of the GnR related stuff that's available out there recently, so it's fresh in my memory.

I haven't seen any other quote by Axl besides the "no lyrics, no melodies, no changes, sing what I was told or fuck off" one from the 2008 chats, when he was referring to the 1995-96 period and the Snakepit songs.

As for Duff, the only Axl quote I know of referencing him in a "been put down/insulted by" context is this one from 2013:

Supermodel girlfriend Stephanie Seymour and original Guns guitarist Slash and bassist Duff McKagan "did more damage to my ability as a writer. To those three, it was all crap. It beat me down so much. At the time of the (Use Your Illusion) tours, Slash and Duff said, 'You're an idiot, you're a loser.' I didn't write for years.

He was referring to a different situation and time frame though, and I don't see how it could be associated to "Sorry". Moreover, Duff couldn't have said something along the lines of "shut up and sing" during the 1995-96 period, as he had teamed with Axl about the Snakepit songs.

-----

I think that the Sorry lyrics are situations specific, but not just one person specific; some parts could be addressed to one person, some others to a group or groups of people; or "you" may be one character that combines elements of different people. The biggest part of it doesn't make sense to be about Slash at all in my opinion. I don't have time to write an in depth analysis to support my interpretation (it would be O/T anyway -it already is- and probably pointless and boring to many people here who have read about it and discussed it multiple times), but for example:

You talk too much
You say I do
Difference is nobody cares about you

You've got all the answers
You know everything
Why nobody asked you
'S a mystery to me

The first line could be about Slash, as he was talking to the media a lot, but it continues with "you say I do"; I don't think Slash ever accused Axl of talking too much and Axl has never alluded to something like that. Then "difference is nobody cares about you", which could read as "the difference is that you/they care about what I have to say, but I/nobody cares about you (because you're a nobody/not important). "You've got all the answers/you know everything" --> irony: you talk like you knew everything, even though you're clueless (I don't think he could say that about Slash). "Why nobody asked you..." --> same as above: nobody asked you because you're a nobody.

I don't see Slash anywhere in this part. It mostly recalls what Axl was always saying about the media people (see also "I'll kick your ass like I said that I would" --> Get In The Ring).

I believe (based on what has been posted here and elsewhere) that Sorry was one of the last CD songs chronologically, probably written during a period (early to mid 00s - the lyrics maybe a bit later) when Axl spent a lot of time on the internet (which he had called a "garbage can" or something) reading what fans and random people (="nobodies") were saying and speculating about him. Also at the same period there were articles based on "inside information" about the then present but also digging up his past and personal stuff he'd never want to become public for obvious reasons, with some of the anonymous "insiders" being referred to as "friends".

The lines "You know where to put your/just shut up and sing" could very well be a sum-up for everything that was said about his rants ("don't talk, just sing") by the media and a portion of fans, as well as for the pressure by the label and fans for not finishing the album (there is a post in this forum from 2006 or so by a fan who had met Axl back then, and what Axl said there relates a lot to this sentiment). And what precedes them ("Nobody owes you a goddamn thing") reminds of Axl's "I don't owe you/I don't work for you" online rants addressed to fans.

Of course there are lines reflecting a more personal relationship (e.g. "You choose to hurt those that love you", "You've got not heart/you can't see/what you've done for me"), but they don't have to be about Slash; they could as well refer to people Axl thought as his friends who "betrayed" him by talking to the media or in other ways (e.g. by not supporting his new band - he has talked about that too).

Edited by Blackstar
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On ‎2017‎-‎06‎-‎25 at 3:36 AM, IncitingChaos said:

I'd like Knockin on heavens door to replace Knocking on Heavens Door....the current version sucks 

Exactly.. I used to love that song live.. but in recent years it became boring and too long. Jams are nice but there's a limit.. 

As far as bringing SoD back. Yes please. I'm glad I got to hear SoD live in 2006.

Edited by estranged_85
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On 6/25/2017 at 2:08 PM, Blackstar said:

I understand that this subject has been analyzed and debated to death here over the years. I wasn't around during that time (as I'm one of the people whose interest renewed with the reunion), but I've read most of the GnR related stuff that's available out there recently, so it's fresh in my memory.

I haven't seen any other quote by Axl besides the "no lyrics, no melodies, no changes, sing what I was told or fuck off" one from the 2008 chats, when he was referring to the 1995-96 period and the Snakepit songs.

As for Duff, the only Axl quote I know of referencing him in a "been put down/insulted by" context is this one from 2013:

Supermodel girlfriend Stephanie Seymour and original Guns guitarist Slash and bassist Duff McKagan "did more damage to my ability as a writer. To those three, it was all crap. It beat me down so much. At the time of the (Use Your Illusion) tours, Slash and Duff said, 'You're an idiot, you're a loser.' I didn't write for years.

He was referring to a different situation and time frame though, and I don't see how it could be associated to "Sorry". Moreover, Duff couldn't have said something along the lines of "shut up and sing" during the 1995-96 period, as he had teamed with Axl about the Snakepit songs.

-----

I think that the Sorry lyrics are situations specific, but not just one person specific; some parts could be addressed to one person, some others to a group or groups of people; or "you" may be one character that combines elements of different people. The biggest part of it doesn't make sense to be about Slash at all in my opinion. I don't have time to write an in depth analysis to support my interpretation (it would be O/T anyway -it already is- and probably pointless and boring to many people here who have read about it and discussed it multiple times), but for example:

You talk too much
You say I do
Difference is nobody cares about you

You've got all the answers
You know everything
Why nobody asked you
'S a mystery to me

The first line could be about Slash, as he was talking to the media a lot, but it continues with "you say I do"; I don't think Slash ever accused Axl of talking too much and Axl has never alluded to something like that. Then "difference is nobody cares about you", which could read as "the difference is that you/they care about what I have to say, but I/nobody cares about you (because you're a nobody/not important). "You've got all the answers/you know everything" --> irony: you talk like you knew everything, even though you're clueless (I don't think he could say that about Slash). "Why nobody asked you..." --> same as above: nobody asked you because you're a nobody.

I don't see Slash anywhere in this part. It mostly recalls what Axl was always saying about the media people (see also "I'll kick your ass like I said that I would" --> Get In The Ring).

I believe (based on what has been posted here and elsewhere) that Sorry was one of the last CD songs chronologically, probably written during a period (early to mid 00s - the lyrics maybe a bit later) when Axl spent a lot of time on the internet (which he had called a "garbage can" or something) reading what fans and random people (="nobodies") were saying and speculating about him. Also at the same period there were articles based on "inside information" about the then present but also digging up his past and personal stuff he'd never want to become public for obvious reasons, with some of the anonymous "insiders" being referred to as "friends".

The lines "You know where to put your/just shut up and sing" could very well be a sum-up for everything that was said about his rants ("don't talk, just sing") by the media and a portion of fans, as well as for the pressure by the label and fans for not finishing the album (there is a post in this forum from 2006 or so by a fan who had met Axl back then, and what Axl said there relates a lot to this sentiment). And what precedes them ("Nobody owes you a goddamn thing") reminds of Axl's "I don't owe you/I don't work for you" online rants addressed to fans.

Of course there are lines reflecting a more personal relationship (e.g. "You choose to hurt those that love you", "You've got not heart/you can't see/what you've done for me"), but they don't have to be about Slash; they could as well refer to people Axl thought as his friends who "betrayed" him by talking to the media or in other ways (e.g. by not supporting his new band - he has talked about that too).

I'm leaning more towards your point of view than I have in the past although not with the specific lyrics you mention. I actually went through the whole thing line by line a while back, made a pretty good case for the verses being to Slash/old band and the chorus the fans. By the end of the thread most were in agreeance that that made the most sense.

Also got my knickers in a twist over Prostitute:

 

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On 6/23/2017 at 3:57 PM, RussTCB said:

*I* never said that about Sorry. I've never thought Sorry was about Slash but I've had my head caved in over and over for thinking The Blues is. 

It's incredibly obvious it is about Slash....it's called The Blues for Christ sake. 

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