RATE: Rock in Rio 2001 - Axl's triumphant return...

[RONIN]

 

My retrospective thoughts on this show:

 

WOW....YOU JUST...CAN'T...TAKE...YOUR EYES...OFF...THEM. 

 Literally feels like you're watching a car on fire crash in slow motion. The spectacle of the whole thing just transfixes you. That's neither a good or bad judgement call but rather to say that this particular lineup had some bizarre chemistry that feels completely disjointed and unnatural...and yet...it works? I don't know whether to be horrified or cheer for them. It's awesomely...weird.  

*This was the first big concert following the few shows Axl did in Vegas during the final days of 2000. He was following up positive press and fan feedback from those shows. The world was missing Guns N' Roses and people had drank the kool aid that Axl was the architect behind the GnR phenomenon. He had all the credibility in the world as the rock press and fans had begun to mythologize Axl as a rock genius in hiding since the late 90's. 

*There was a tremendous amount of hype, mystique and expectations for Guns N' Roses after so much had happened in music. Slash and co. had more or less fallen off the map at this point which only further legitimized Axl's solo adventure. This was Axl's chance to completely reinvent the brand and start fresh without the ghost of the classic era hanging over him. The time was right and everything was lined up in his favor here. There was tremendous anticipation and momentum for GnR 2.0. Over 250k Brazilians would witness the long awaited return of W. Axl Rose and Guns N' Roses.

* I had great hopes for this lineup. Axl was still pre-vanilla ice and pre-mtv VMA disaster. He was shaky here - certainly...but nothing near the dumpster fire of the 2002 tour.

*Nobody knew what to expect here. Literally. There was nothing like the unveiling of this band hype or interest wise in my memory.

*The Freakshow aspect of this lineup is now infamous.  Obviously Axl toned it down for his 2006 lineup which became a more conventional rock band, but there was something balls-y about the way Axl assembled this original misfit lineup of Nu Guns. I still can't help but feel that even in 2001, they were still a few years too late to the party as NIN and Manson's schtick had played itself out by then. 

*The band's rendition of KOHD and Patience are very strong. Great arrangement. Buckethead and Robin do great work here.

*Mr. Buckethead was a force unto his own. Check his beautiful solo on KOHD and his blistering Nightrain outro. He appeared to have the skills and stage persona up to the stature of Slash which helped alleviate the separation anxiety from our guitar hero. 

*Brain - a monster drummer that reminded one of a 21st century Adler.

*Finck and Tommy Stinson - wasn't at all sure what to make of them aside from their ridiculous clothes and stage persona.

*Paul Fucking Huge/Tobias - the man, the myth, the legend. Potentially the most hated person in GnR lore among hardcore fans. This is a guy that a GnR fan wouldn't piss on if he was covered in flames. To be fair, I believe he has a cult fanbase on some nu gnr sites.  I can't speak much to his stage presence or playing but he seems to take a cue from Izzy and chills in his corner. He doesn't get in the way of the "stars" unlike the hyperactive gnome they currently have on rhythm guitar. As Axl says in the concert, "Without Paul, there would be no Guns N' Roses." Indeed Axl. Indeed.  

*Despite Axl being at his weakest here vocally, to me, this is the most watchable new guns show and certainly leagues beyond anything post 2002 until NITL. It's also stronger than anything they did in '02 when Fortus replaced Tobias. There's also quite a few of Axl's trademark rants including one on the old band.

Watching this show years later feels bittersweet. Disappointing on one level because it wasn't the original band and Axl was off his game significantly. He still looked like Axl though and the band had tremendous potential which made it intriguing. Knowing how it all turned out though gives the whole affair a "jeez...what could have been..." vibe since this lineup never had a chance to shine.

 

What did you guys think?

Edited July 10, 2017 by RONIN

[Fanboy]

He had something to proove and he worked his ass off to keep the band alive, to keep us happy, to give us something, to me Axl was looking good exept for the voice, kinda weak but I like the way he sings chinese democracy tunes and to many people on stage, that's all.
I think it was great, it could have been way better if Axl had trained his voice or whatever, at least to be prepared

[DieselDaisy]

It was rather iconic in its uniqueness,

- Rose's (Guns's if you consider them Guns) first show in years; first any public appearance by Rose really since 1994.

- Vegas warm-up aside, first wholesale look at this new band of freaks. You have to remember the fact that nobody had the slightest clue what Tobias looked like (and few have seen him since!), and Brain and Buckethead were relatively underground artists.

- televised proshot, which soon filtered out to the rest of the community on VHS (ahh the good old days).

- And how many brand new songs did he play? Four? Five? One of them is still unreleased ('Silk Worms'). 'Oh My God' also as I recall. That is like a Neil Young thing, playing unreleased songs as if you are giving out sweeties to kids - bootleg collectors love this. Yes, how bolder the Axl was then than now. And the songs sounded better than on the eventual record when it was released about two hundred years later.

On the downside Rose was woefully unrehearsed and out of shape. I remember some massive 'Axl Rose disasters' at that show, on 'Patience' for instance. In some interview later with Brain the truth finally turned up: it seems that he'd never ever rehearsed with the band and pulled this big diva stunt where he had them playing for ages without him then he flew in at the last moment at some godforsaken hour and just watched them!

[Sosso]

There is a live album from NIN called "And All That Could Haven Been". This line exactly describes my thoughts about the 1997-2004 era of GN'R. They had recorded tons of material and were ready to reach UYI-like levels.

That's why I voted for option one.

Edited July 10, 2017 by Sosso

[RONIN]

29 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

It was rather iconic in its uniqueness,

- Rose's (Guns's if you consider them Guns) first show in years; first any public appearance by Rose really since 1994.

- Vegas warm-up aside, first wholesale look at this new band of freaks. You have to remember the fact that nobody had the slightest clue what Tobias looked like (and few have seen him since!), and Brain and Buckethead were relatively underground artists.

- televised proshot, which soon filtered out to the rest of the community on VHS (ahh the good old days).

- And how many brand new songs did he play? Four? Five? One of them is still unreleased ('Silk Worms'). 'Oh My God' also as I recall. That is like a Neil Young thing, playing unreleased songs as if you are giving out sweeties to kids - bootleg collectors love this. Yes, how bolder the Axl was then than now. And the songs sounded better than on the eventual record when it was released about two hundred years later.

On the downside Rose was woefully unrehearsed and out of shape. I remember some massive 'Axl Rose disasters' at that show, on 'Patience' for instance. In some interview later with Brain the truth finally turned up: it seems that he'd never ever rehearsed with the band and pulled this big diva stunt where he had them playing for ages without him then he flew in at the last moment at some godforsaken hour and just watched them!

Yeah, agreed. It was ballsy of him - he still had that trademark unpredictability about him and I would wager that even reflects in the "freakshow" element of the band he assembled. By 2006, he had become another corporate rocker, but this first comeback did seem to have some actual "artistic" merit.

I do remember that interview you're referencing. Goes to show you how cavalier he was about the whole affair. He cared so much about proving he could succeed without Slash and yet he couldn't be bothered to put in the work and rehearse with his own band. Go figure. It was definitely a harbinger for the ill-fated 2002 tour/implosion.

Edited July 10, 2017 by RONIN

[DieselDaisy]

I wouldn't say ''UYI-like levels'' but they might have forged an interesting ''weirder'' era and even developed a brand new fanbase from the alt.rock masses. All that happened after Rio was a disastrous tour and the (gradual) dismantling of that line-up. He needed to get (an untinkered) Chinese out in 2001 or 2002 and then the other two albums out soon after. He needed to keep Buckethead most of all who was (and still is) this creative genius - who releases a hundred albums a day and can play any style.

But it all ended up in the toilet really! We were left with a far shittier line-up (Bumblefoot, Ashba, Frank) and an album which came out seven years too late and sank without trace.

It went from Rio in front of 150,000 and the prospect of a 'trilogy', and ended with a depressingly awful live DVD filmed from a Vegas casino!

[RONIN]

2 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

I wouldn't say ''UYI-like levels'' but they might have forged an interesting ''weirder'' era and even developed a brand new fanbase from the alt.rock masses. All that happened after Rio was a disastrous tour and the (gradual) dismantling of that line-up. He needed to get (an untinkered) Chinese out in 2001 or 2002 and then the other two albums out soon after. He needed to keep Buckethead most of all who was (and still is) this creative genius - who releases a hundred albums a day and can play any style.

But it all ended up in the toilet really! We were left with a far shittier line-up (Bumblefoot, Ashba, Frank) and an album which came out seven years too late and sank without trace.

It went from Rio in front of 150,000 and the prospect of a 'trilogy', and ended with a depressingly awful live DVD filmed from a Vegas casino!

Correct me if I'm wrong here DD, but you sound strangely...nostalgic here.  Were you actually interested in this band and looking forward to hearing their music?

I was a fan of Illusion 2's experimental style and so the prospect of Axl teaming up with Buckethead and Brain was always an exciting proposition. Finck was sort of a wild card which just made the stew even more potentially unpredictable. Ditto with Stinson.

[Hollywood Gunner]

fuckin loved axls energy. the crowd was insane. the bucket didnt bother me that much but fuck fincks haircut

and mr. security man

[xBrownstonex]

That jungle still gives me the chills.

[DieselDaisy]

1 hour ago, RONIN said:

Correct me if I'm wrong here DD, but you sound strangely...nostalgic here.  Were you actually interested in this band and looking forward to hearing their music?

I was a fan of Illusion 2's experimental style and so the prospect of Axl teaming up with Buckethead and Brain was always an exciting proposition. Finck was sort of a wild card which just made the stew even more potentially unpredictable. Ditto with Stinson.

Oh yes. In a (reluctant way) I gave Axl the chance. He had new songs at Rio, and then the leaks and promises of trilogies and all sorts - it was all very interesting, much more interesting than now infact. Buckethead was also a genius. So I waited to see the outcome and unfortunately it was a complete disaster.

Believe it or not I was actually a Guns fan at one time; I was a fan enough to see Axl's newgnr twice (Slash twice also) - traveling to shows like many people do here. All the delays, line-up changes and complete silliness and bollocks emanating from Axl's camp basically turned me cynical. I think when newgnr ended up in a casino with Ashba doing the Hogan ears and Axl on a flying piano was the final nail in the coffin for me, although it might have been when he turned up ten stone overweight in that banana jacket? Somewhere during the ''Ashba Years''.

[mikeman5150]

I never knew Axl played guitar on Madagascar, freaking badass seeing him jam while doing the Axl sway!

[action]

i can't sit this one out past the first song. all i'm feeling is depression while watching this. between tommy's pijama's, robin's retarded haircut or bucketface, it's cringe after cringe.

it just failed on every level. i can't appreciate the so called "artsy" direction (which has no place in a GNR concert), i can't appreciate Axl's trainer pants and matching puma/adidas or whatever shoes or the weird, twisted emotional act with beta on stage.

i hate this concert with a passion.

2001-2015 are fourteen years of pain.

[RONIN]

1 hour ago, Hollywood Gunner said:

fuckin loved axls energy. the crowd was insane. the bucket didnt bother me that much but fuck fincks haircut

and mr. security man

I believe they call that haircut a "Skullett". A sort of, updated mullet if you will. 

[DieselDaisy]

Rose's attire was admittedly odd. He had an open shirt with this beer gut hanging out over a pair of trackies!! First rule of beer guts is, keep them covered. He had black hair also. He looked a bit like Ozzy infact. And Robin was a weird goth at this show but had weirdly morphed into Dimebag Darrell by the time I saw them in 2006!

Paul Tobias looked like the outcome of, If Kurt Corbain and Axl Rose ever had sex.

[RONIN]

4 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Rose's attire was admittedly odd. He had an open shirt with this beer gut hanging out over a pair of trackies!! First rule of beer guts is, keep them covered. He had black hair also. He looked a bit like Ozzy infact. And Robin was a weird goth at this show but had weirdly morphed into Dimebag Darrell by the time I saw them in 2006!

Paul Tobias looked like the outcome of, If Kurt Corbain and Axl Rose ever had sex.

You have a way with words sir. 

As per the Rio show, were you liking the new material you heard or was it worrying to you the direction they were going in? 

After hearing those songs, my initial reaction was just one of weird fascination: "Huh....well, that was...interesting...". 

 It wasn't quite the GnR I knew, but I was intrigued to see what that material would sound like in their final form. 

[F*ck Fear]

This show had great monents, and some not so good moments. I rather watch stuff from the 2002 tour as the band was tighter by that point.

Too bad it all came crashing down.

[Nalbi]

45 minutes ago, action said:

i can't sit this one out past the first song. all i'm feeling is depression while watching this. between tommy's pijama's, robin's retarded haircut or bucketface, it's cringe after cringe.

it just failed on every level. i can't appreciate the so called "artsy" direction (which has no place in a GNR concert), i can't appreciate Axl's trainer pants and matching puma/adidas or whatever shoes or the weird, twisted emotional act with beta on stage.

i hate this concert with a passion.

2001-2015 are fourteen years of pain.

So much THIS.

Also, I just don't get the hype around Buckethead... The guy is skilled, no contest, but there's not an ounce of emotion in what he does and he has the stage presence of a wooden stick.

[RONIN]

4 minutes ago, Nalbi said:

So much THIS.

Also, I just don't get the hype around Buckethead... The guy is skilled, no contest, but there's not an ounce of emotion in what he does and he has the stage presence of a wooden stick.

Au contraire mon frere. Looks like I'll need to pull this out again:

 

[Nalbi]

10 minutes ago, RONIN said:

Au contraire mon frere. Looks like I'll need to pull this out again:

 

I admit it, it's beautiful, but sadly, watching him playing such an amazing solo just does nothing to me.

[Sosso]

23 minutes ago, RONIN said:

Au contraire mon frere. Looks like I'll need to pull this out again:

 

ANd this:

 

 

 

Edited July 10, 2017 by Sosso

[supercool]

This show was a lot of fun. It should have been the only nugnr show because 2002 was shit and 2006 was kind of boring.

[3coloursbeige]

Love the version of The Blues/Street of Dreams from this show.  Much better than the album version.  Which perfectly illustrates how terrible the CD incarnation really is...seeing as Axl spends most of the performance glaring and mouthing off at a techie...

[nikosgnr]

I think one of the biggest moments over there was Axl talking and thanking Beta. And surelly proves a lot about his emotional situation about that time.

Great show for so many reasons.

 

 

Edited July 10, 2017 by nikosgnr

[AxlIsGod.]

This show was, interesting, to say the least. Clearly the band and Axl cared about the CD stuff more than anything else here. I know its a festival and youre pleasing the crowd but I wish they had the balls to just play all CD stuff and not even bother with the old stuff, then release the album, then do a tour with the old stuff mixed in. This could have been the launch pad for "NuGuns" but it all just crashed and burned after the cut short 02 tour.

06 was the other chance this band had to launch, still having a decent lineup and writers of CD stuff. By 08 it was too late.

[Stress Fracture]

It was all exciting to me. The return of Axl who had become almost mythical at this point. The freshness of the songs. Brain's drumming breathed new life into them. Buckethead's shredding likewise. Robin's solos were more of an acquired taste, admittedly, but undeniably different... At this stage, Chris Pitman was also more than a towel-waving douche and played a part.

All helped by a lively crowd lapping it up.

It felt like a rebirth. It was ultimately a false dawn.