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07/20/17 - NYC - Apollo Theater


alfierose

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1 minute ago, ludurigan said:

good for you man. thats a good ability, forgetting everything else and focus on the good stuff only

 

I updated it because I agree on the rest and if it was an audio only I heard , I would have the exact same take away. I'm telling you , that small venue and watching slash work was something crazy, I forgot ferrer existed during those minutes,I was hypnotized . I would put jumper cables on our brains and transmit then ask your opinion , lol! 

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2 minutes ago, Euchre said:

Yeah the song wasn't even recognizable. After a while you think it can't be as bad as I remembered and make the mistake of watching another video and its just cringe worthy.

We're never going to get performances like in the '80's again, but if you really wanted to make the best musical statement you'd scrape away the excess and get the original 5 back - that's the closest we'd get to the prime and the best we could hear the material sound today. But like I said before $ comes first now - musical integrity and legacy barely rates a mention. Its a shame as the band used to stand for the exact opposite - or at least appeared to.

yep

i think we could get really terrific versions of all the Guns n Roses songs with the original guys

minus axl's voice which is fucked up. but if we had GNR onstage even that fucked up voice wouldnt really matter i suppose because it would be too good anyway

oh, yeah, they were good bullshitters. you listen to axl in pasadena 1987 and you think "wow, this guy is the real deal, he will never fall in the rock star traps, he will never be a prima donna" and then a few years laters he becomes the textbook pathethic rock star

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I listened to Rocket Queen and it was good sans Rose's voice with which he sounds like he'd taken a vat of helium. If they ever do a DVD or this tour they're going to have to do a load of studio trickery.

You can neither blame phones or youtube either!

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22 minutes ago, Pishy said:

@Iron MikeyJ you nailed it on the CD songs . The album was so over produced pursuing perfection and axl getting a 10 year case of jitters , that it sounds sterile, axl is lost under layers of gibberish and the dissonance just leaves me kind of angry and annoyed. When I heard Better live, I thought , what's this ? How is this? It sounded so different I went home and put on CD album and no, this can't be the same. Then at the jersey show I was kind of shocked again. And you are correct , slash fixed it and I can bet axl is finally relieved because he brought in every highly skilled player he could find and tried to chop and and re-arrange to locate slash and ended up with a schizoid affective mess. Then last night when I heard Sorry I was just shocked , first , axl gives his solo album songs more effort but slash fixed the music , it's not the same song. And with all that over produced, computer garbage gone ,that he partially hoped would bridge the obvious crater,  it sounds like actual music . It was all trapped behind an impermeable membrane , slash cut it out and broke it loose . Axl must be secretly relieved because he never claimed to play guitar , those guys needs all the pieces , imagine if he had Adler on drums and Izzy on rhythm , then there would be something else happening . But yeah , you're right, I came to the same conclusion because it's so clear . Some guy asked me who they were covering when Sorry came on , he didn't believe it was a CD song. 

 

 

 

Referring to CD era music "Slash fixed the music..." :facepalm: no, no he didn't. Slash just plays the same parts that were on the record, and when it comes to the solos he just throws out the perfectly good solos for mindless shred (something most of you say the album was already full of). 

The music was good when the previous line up played it and it's good now, because i was good to begin with. Most of you had a hang up about the record and said "I can't like anything about this" or you had some weird "I'm on x members side, ta'fuck with Axls solo album" but, now! Slash plays the songs and they are now good songs. Songs that were once derided are now considered good, not because there's new arrangements, reworked riffs, vocals or anything that would drastically improve the song... I don't think anyone can deny how crazy that is... these are the same songs with different (worse) solos and that's fixing things. With all these comments I always like to mention that I love Slash, I thought WOF was one of the best records in years... but I refuse to give him a pat on the back for something he clearly hasn't done. What I would do is say thanks to him, because through him playing the songs a lot more people who refused before are now giving the material a chance.

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4 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

I listened to Rocket Queen and it was good sans Rose's voice with which he sounds like he'd taken a vat of helium. If they ever do a DVD or this tour they're going to have to do a load of studio trickery.

You can neither blame phones or youtube either!

nah,It was the pro tools rig, it makes vocals sound weak; should have recorded to tape ;) 

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3 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

I listened to Rocket Queen and it was good sans Rose's voice with which he sounds like he'd taken a vat of helium. If they ever do a DVD or this tour they're going to have to do a load of studio trickery.

You can neither blame phones or youtube either!

He sounded much different than earlier in the tour and yes, I heard the helium. It startled me more than once and I almost feel bad because other times he stopped doing it and demonstrated some cool vocals , did some badass gymnastics . Then all of a sudden , man, I don't know .  I don't think it's a secret , he knows he is doing it either to protect his voice or because he is worn out from all the shows but I heard it bad in November rain and several other songs . 

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@Tom2112,

I am by NO means s CD hater, quite the opposite. I have ALWAYS saw the beauty of that album. Having said that, I also can't ignore that it was heavy on the roses and light on the guns. Instead of guns, axl tried to get a bunch of hired guns to fill those shoes. Also about 1/4 of the album could be considered Numetal, so it has a lot going on, which I don't dislike. 

We could argue over the solos to TIL, sorry, better, CD. Do you prefer Slash or the album versions, and go back and fourth and not really get anywhere. But to be honest I'm not even really talking about the main guitar solos, I'm talking about Slash's guitar work in general. I'm sorry, but Slash's work at THIS concert, on those CD songs is BETTER than what's on the album. He adds new elements, he does indeed help give them new life. All 4 of those songs are HARDER now than they EVER were before, including on the album. Why? They have guns in them finally.

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6 minutes ago, Tom2112 said:

Referring to CD era music "Slash fixed the music..." :facepalm: no, no he didn't. Slash just plays the same parts that were on the record, and when it comes to the solos he just throws out the perfectly good solos for mindless shred (something most of you say the album was already full of). 

The music was good when the previous line up played it and it's good now, because i was good to begin with. Most of you had a hang up about the record and said "I can't like anything about this" or you had some weird "I'm on x members side, ta'fuck with Axls solo album" but, now! Slash plays the songs and they are now good songs. Songs that were once derided are now considered good, not because there's new arrangements, reworked riffs, vocals or anything that would drastically improve the song... I don't think anyone can deny how crazy that is... these are the same songs with different (worse) solos and that's fixing things. With all these comments I always like to mention that I love Slash, I thought WOF was one of the best records in years... but I refuse to give him a pat on the back for something he clearly hasn't done. What I would do is say thanks to him, because through him playing the songs a lot more people who refused before are now giving the material a chance.

WRONG! I tried to like CD, as I said, it's overproduced , has some of the elements we hear today from talentless hacks such as Kanye and Bieber, where all these smoke screens are required to give the illusion of music only we don't want to be tricked , and can't be , because we are looking for music ! So of course it's different live , there are not 100 engineers polishing it into a useless shiny rock . And slash brings style , that's key . The music is changed at a fundamental level , I never liked sorry or better , until I heard them live, Sorry you can't understand the reasons why and have decided to couch my comment in some old argument you had that doesn't apply here . What are you 5, On X members side? I like GnR , I like music , and CD songs live sound completely different for the reasons I gave . Yes, slash fixing it is a reason why. Did I say CD was axl's magnus opus? It can use more work but for what the final product was , it's much better live for the reasons cited.

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18 minutes ago, Tom2112 said:

nah,It was the pro tools rig, it makes vocals sound weak; should have recorded to tape ;) 

I heard it live , the helium made a number of appearances , not "pro tools" 

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10 minutes ago, Pishy said:

He sounded much different than earlier in the tour and yes, I heard the helium. It startled me more than once and I almost feel bad because other times he stopped doing it and demonstrated some cool vocals , did some badass gymnastics . Then all of a sudden , man, I don't know .  I don't think it's a secret , he knows he is doing it either to protect his voice or because he is worn out from all the shows but I heard it bad in November rain and several other songs . 

I know he did it with AC/DC for almost the entirety of each song, but expecting any singer to use rasp (vocal compression) constantly throughout 2 years of touring is a sure way to kill a voice. He knows how to do it properly, that's what the coach is for... but even with performing the correct technique perfectly to get rasp you're still damaging your voice, it's an unnatural way to sing. I can defend that, because of the limitations involved. I can't defend breathlessness or singing without power which he does on a fairly regular basis. 

It is quite likely that he is in fact saving his voice to make it through the tour. If he goes back to AC/DC and uses full on rasp again... well I can't explain that, other than 1. he may be more motivated being in AC/DC or 2. he thinks the guns songs sound better these days with a clean vocal, while AC/DC needs a gravel voice.

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8 minutes ago, Tom2112 said:

I know he did it with AC/DC for almost the entirety of each song, but expecting any singer to use rasp (vocal compression) constantly throughout 2 years of touring is a sure way to kill a voice. He knows how to do it properly, that's what the coach is for... but even with performing the correct technique perfectly to get rasp you're still damaging your voice, it's an unnatural way to sing. I can defend that, because of the limitations involved. I can't defend breathlessness or singing without power which he does on a fairly regular basis. 

It is quite likely that he is in fact saving his voice to make it through the tour. If he goes back to AC/DC and uses full on rasp again... well I can't explain that, other than 1. he may be more motivated being in AC/DC or 2. he thinks the guns songs sound better these days with a clean vocal, while AC/DC needs a gravel voice.

I guess it all goes together , helium sound contradicts power. There were times his voice was clean but had power and then it would sound like a children's sing along song that didn't match the music , ok , it matched ferrer , haha. But then he would hold a note , with power and for so long, Duff looked at him like he was impressed and it wasn't stage theatrics .  One thing I'll add about slash is he works double time to compensate and I have to say fortus has excellent instinct as well, he reads the stage so well, the man is good. 

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8 minutes ago, Pishy said:

WRONG! I tried to like CD, as I said, it's overproduced , has some of the elements we hear today from talentless hacks such as Kanye and Bieber, where all these smoke screens are required to give the illusion of music only we don't want to be tricked , and can't be , because we are looking for music ! So of course it's different live , there are not 100 engineers polishing it into a useless shiny rock . And slash brings style , that's key . The music is changed at a fundamental level , I never liked sorry or better , until I heard them live, Sorry you can't understand the reasons why and have decided to couch my comment in some old argument you had that doesn't apply here . What are you 5, On X members side? I like GnR , I like music , and CD songs live sound completely different for the reasons I gave . Yes, slash fixing it is a reason why. Did I say CD was axl's magnus opus? It can use more work but for what the final product was , it's much better live for the reasons cited.

Yeh, you said he fixed it. I said when the band played those same songs live in 2006-2014 they were similar to what we have here, missing gtr III of course. 

I've had similar experiences with songs, like Sorry which I didn't love immediately, until I heard GNR play in 2010, similar reasons to you too, they played it much rawer and it gave it a new lease of life... but it was the same song. Let's not get carried away, a bad song is a bad song whether you're favourite whatever plays on it or not, and the same goes for a good song. Are you saying the performances on the record were bad, or are you saying the songs were bad, and are you saying when these same songs were performed in 2010 that they weren't just as good, if not better.

 

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Just now, Tom2112 said:

Yeh, you said he fixed it. I said when the band played those same songs live in 2006-2014 they were similar to what we have here, missing gtr III of course. 

I've had similar experiences with songs, like Sorry which I didn't love immediately, until I heard GNR play in 2010, similar reasons to you too, they played it much rawer and it gave it a new lease of life... but it was the same song. Let's not get carried away, a bad song is a bad song whether you're favourite whatever plays on it or not, and the same goes for a good song. Are you saying the performances on the record were bad, or are you saying the songs were bad, and are you saying when these same songs were performed in 2010 that they weren't just as good, if not better.

 

How do you keep going with this "favorites" theory ? If it was up to me, I would drop Melissa and ferrer into the ocean and bring in Izzy and Adler but keep Fortus because he is of the same caliber . The CD album needs work , or an undoing of too much work . Didn't have the creators necessary . But when it's live , it Has more opportunity , it actually has some style and axl leans into that , it becomes more natural . I didn't say I love those songs just switch out the 50 guitar players for slash and it's better . I also didn't say oh geez, those improvised solos changed the whole thing right up! I'm saying slash changed it all up , he injected style and soul . People like buvkethead are technically outstanding but I want to take a nap. Slash has technique and more importantly style ! He brings creativity , it's like watching dancers , one may be a well trained ballerina but you bring out someone with the same training but a natural style and talent and it's different altogether even though they were given th same choreography to accomplish . One performance is lifeless . 

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9 minutes ago, Gibbo said:

 

This voice is just awful...sounds like Mickey Mouse getting his balls squeezed in a vice while singing old GNR tunes.  Let's face it, right now Axl is the weak link in GNR.  Slash and Duff can make their instruments sound just like 1986-1988 (maybe even better as their performances are no longer clouded by drugs/alcohol), but Axl is a far cry from the band's peak.  As for the business side, once again Axl is the weak link as I believe it is he who is preventing Izzy and Steven (especially Steven) from assuming their proper place in the band, while we get the second rate imposters instead.

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20 minutes ago, PeterNorth said:

This voice is just awful...sounds like Mickey Mouse getting his balls squeezed in a vice while singing old GNR tunes.  Let's face it, right now Axl is the weak link in GNR.  Slash and Duff can make their instruments sound just like 1986-1988 (maybe even better as their performances are no longer clouded by drugs/alcohol), but Axl is a far cry from the band's peak.  As for the business side, once again Axl is the weak link as I believe it is he who is preventing Izzy and Steven (especially Steven) from assuming their proper place in the band, while we get the second rate imposters instead.

Axl was ALWAYS going to be the weak link of the reunion. Thats precisely the reason I never thought it would happen. That was inevitable. It was impossible not to be the case cause he has the most strenuous job. And I'm not apologizing for him, but everyone should have known Axl was always going to be the weak link. He did well last year, even though most of that might have been us just drinking in this return. Although I did think he sounded better.

As for the business side, I'm not sure what the case is. I'd almost say Slash and Duff should have threatened to walk if Izzy doesn't get his fair share. Just to see, but I get that that could have backfired and ruined everything they were building towards. I think in my head I can't imagine Axl is the ONLY one preventing them from being there. I believe he's a big part of it, but Slash and Duff obviously agreed. Of the three I side with Axl the least, but I have to put all the big 3 in there. No matter's who's specific fault it is, they all agreed and have to own it. I do not blame Axl for why Izzy and Steven aren't there, you have to blame all of the big 3. Also, and maybe its just me, but if it is majority Axl then Izzy who is his so called friend IMO should never forgive him. Axl claims to adore this man and if he's preventing him from being there Izzy should badmouth him for the rest of his life (but obviously he won't). But thats why it seems hard for me to believe its just Axl, cause they were always kind of the closest.

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4 hours ago, soon said:

With the date of Apollo show leading into the anniversary of AFD and especially with the posters and billboards up in NYC, its left some of us wondering why the Apollo show was not in any way a celebration of AFD30.  

I'm wondering if Adlers interviews this last yer can give any insight?  For one he said that when Fernando gave him a ride somewhere that Fernando shared some ideas/plans for AFD30 that Adler thought were exciting and hoped would come to fruition.  Also Adler reported in the last year that it was only just shortly before the Troubadour show that he was informed that he would not be participating in the shows.

Is it possible that the moving pieces and negotiations were ongoing up until 'the last minute?'  And that plans, press, posters, t-shirts, etc were made for either a NITL or AFD30 show, because of the lessons learned from Troubadour (actually GNRs entire career) ?

This of course assumes it was ever potentially an AFD30 thing.  Siriusxm's GNR Radio write up indicates the channel is a celebration of AFD30 and they put on the Apollo show and streamed it to that station.  Also Beta instagramed a congratulations for AFD 30 to NITL line up plus Izzy and Steven on the day of the show, not today, the actual anniversary.

Obviously this is a broad question.  But, I don't know.  Something along these lines seems possible to me.  

Could this show have gone either way? What do people think?

 

Sorry, and I mean this in the nicest way possible, but no, thats not the case at all. Don't bog yourself with trying to put logic to things with GNR. People end up sounding beyond crazy, but I get that thats what this band does to people. I'm just saying don't get sucked into that.

Remember, Adler is VERY unreliable. I love the guy, but in the same "confirmation" of stuff for Appetite 30th he also said he has no involvement and just believes thats happening. He went from saying something was planned to he heard plans to he's hoping Fernando will do something. So remember that, cause that kept getting forgotten. Adler knew NOTHING, he was assuming, and clearly nothing was ever planned for Appetite specifically.

Nothing got cancelled or was being held for the last minute. They played a special show at the Apollo cause Sirius gave them a channel and this was obviously part of the deal. It had nothing to do with Appetite and never did. Billboards were put up to honor Appetite's 30th and also just coincided with the show, but the two weren't connected. It was simply because the show took place the day before the anniversary, so the show gets people talking about the anniversary. But the show is not in honor of that. Those are just the facts.

Beta's instagram, I'm sorry, but is just a stupid fucking thing. There's no other explanation for it. She was congratulating AFD 30 by including the original members and then for no reason the current band members. Presumably just because they're there. I think she'd just as much congratulate only them, but realized the stupidity of congratulating the album without acknowledging those original guys. So she just did them all. Again, think of it as nothing more than the stupidest fucking post in awhile and thats fucking saying something.

People sadly give GNR too much credit. Things don't fall apart. They plan things, deliberately and without much logic. "We'll do a show". Thats it. And then people add backstory to it, or the band accidentally posts dumb things which suggest something else. Thats not the case. They simply, rightly or wrongly, plan things (and plan is a strong word, they get an idea and just execute it) and if it doesn't work out with the fans they blame it on something else.

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